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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Doug,

How about you actually write up the solution the WE came up with last night when you came to my campus?


Once I get my wireless mouse again, I'm going to solve the Pentultimate.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Hey gelatinbrain, could you put on the Magic Octahedron (vertex-turning, like the Pyraminx with trivial tips) and the Master Octahedron (vertex-turning, like the Master Pyraminx)? They both exist in physical form. Magic Octahedron and Trajber's Octahedron resemble 2.2.1 and 2.2.2, if that helps.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:28 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
Hey gelatinbrain, could you put on the Magic Octahedron (vertex-turning, like the Pyraminx with trivial tips) and the Master Octahedron (vertex-turning, like the Master Pyraminx)? They both exist in physical form. Magic Octahedron and Trajber's Octahedron resemble 2.2.1 and 2.2.2, if that helps.

If I undenstand well, they should correspond to 4.2.2 & 4.2.6, respectively, except that there are no independently turning corner pieces. Anyway they exist only for esthetic reasons,..no? 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:49 pm 
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Hmm, call me blind, but I never noticed that range of puzzles before! :) I'm gonna go solve a few of them right now. Cool stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:27 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
Hmm, call me blind, but I never noticed that range of puzzles before! :) I'm gonna go solve a few of them right now. Cool stuff.


Ha, and I was the one to link you to them, wasn't I?? I feel special :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:11 am 
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If Doug gets off his lazy but, he's got a decent post coming. He called me a few hours back about some interesting stuff.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:43 am 
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Interesting development... "DougBot v1.0" is a go!

I wrote a solver program for the Pentultimate. I did only the turns the program told me to do, and it got a time of about 1hr and at 1000 turns. Both these stats are very close to what I usually do by hand.

The latest optimizations is taking it down to under 750 turns average. I'll have it do another run tomorrow.

I'm trying to find some nice subgroup here that I can apply 2-phase Cube Explorer tactics to... I might just leave it as it doing centers-first.

I think eventually with enough optimizations this bad boy will be breaking 5 minutes any day now :). This will require turning off animation and perfecting a module that moves the mouse and clicks automatically, something that I have experience writing MFC code for back in highschool.

OR! the author of the applet could provide a place to paste in turns...

more details to follow (after I get blasted with questions).


-Doug

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:08 am 
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What did you write it with?

How long did it take?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:33 am 
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Good question. I have a horrific answer.

I used a combination of programs across multiple platforms. Some of it are just scripts. I wrote script that pulls out the colors from the applet and converts the RGB data into numbers 0-11. Then I wrote a C++ program that constructs the puzzle-state and produces a cyclic decompositon. Since I don't have a windows-based C compiler that program I ran on a Linux box. The output goes into another program that crunches away and give some ugly solution, that then gets fed into a sed-script that formats it nicely for my eyes for me to execute. Using Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC) I have another module cooking up that will actually make the mose move and click the right places...

I'm being intentionally vauge. But there is some Mathematica code involved.

I'll be solving a few other puzzles by hand to get my street-cred back now with the score keeping system, and then I'll work on this Bot some more. The goal is to break 500 turns average. Due to the shape, I think I can make a bunch of modifications to it and come up with a Megaminx solver next.

One major change I'm considering making, is moving from centers-first to corners-first. I have no idea what this will do to the solution length but we shall see!


-Doug

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:37 am 
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geletinbrain: request, there's already a button for toggling animation, but could you make one that toggles a LOCK on the whole-puzzle rotation. This is tripping up my Botting.

btw, I will separate the me and my bots on the score listing.

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:46 pm 
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1.1.4 is going down :). I have all the algs I need, and about to attempt a solve. This puzzle is going down, and I'll be the first to do it, it seems.

Any of you try this one yet?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:52 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
geletinbrain: request, there's already a button for toggling animation, but could you make one that toggles a LOCK on the whole-puzzle rotation. This is tripping up my Botting.

It's possible, but is it not better to provide an edit area to type or paste algorism sequences, so you can paste the output of your solver in one click?
I can't implement it immediately. But I think it's not so difficult.

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
btw, I will separate the me and my bots on the score listing.

No problem. My regards to Bot 8-)


Check new ones , including a 10-colored dogic(2.2.8 ~ 2.2.12)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Well, I still can't solve 1.1.4 or Pentultimate. I'd be glad if you could help me out a bit... The only useful algs I've found for Pentultimate have been corner flippers.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:22 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
Check new ones , including a 10-colored dogic(2.2.8 ~ 2.2.12)


All that shows up for me on those is a grey area and the buttons, but nothing else.

I checked the older puzzles to make sure it wasn't my computer doing it and thos puzzles showed up fine.

Is anyone else having this problem?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:56 pm 
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Rae wrote:
gelatinbrain wrote:
Check new ones , including a 10-colored dogic(2.2.8 ~ 2.2.12)


All that shows up for me on those is a grey area and the buttons, but nothing else.

I checked the older puzzles to make sure it wasn't my computer doing it and thos puzzles showed up fine.

Is anyone else having this problem?


My guess is that your browser is loading an older version of the applet cached on your local disk... 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:15 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
My guess is that your browser is loading an older version of the applet cached on your local disk... 8-)


Would that apply to an puzzle applet I haven't played with? Becuase I tried some that I haven't before and they still showed up fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:25 pm 
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Rae wrote:
gelatinbrain wrote:
My guess is that your browser is loading an older version of the applet cached on your local disk... 8-)


Would that apply to an puzzle applet I haven't played with? Becuase I tried some that I haven't before and they still showed up fine.


No, if my guess is right, that applies only to new ones that I uploaded about 3 hours ago. If you've launched your browser before that, very probably your local copy is not updated. You'd better to relaunch your browser. 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Gelatinbrain, thanks for the Dogic!

I have never had the chance to play with a dogic before, and I just now realize how crazy the puzzle actually is!

After I finally solve the pyraminx-crystal, I'm moving on to the dogic :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:30 pm 
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:oops:


...I feel silly for not thinkng about that. Thanks for the help.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:59 pm 
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I solved the Master Icosahedron in 17 minutes :)

It's 2.2.11, I think. Natural analogue of Master Octahedron and Master Pyraminx, so it can be solved the same way (tips -> easy middle edges -> centers with (R'FRF')*3 -> 4-move commutators for outer edges). Fun, but a lot of pieces...

By the way - the hardest part of Dogic is getting the color scheme right :P I hope you don't consider it cheating keeping a picture of the solved cube open in another window, I can't remember the color scheme you chose...

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qqwref wrote:
By the way - the hardest part of Dogic is getting the color scheme right :P I hope you don't consider it cheating keeping a picture of the solved cube open in another window, I can't remember the color scheme you chose...


I completely agree with that. That's the reason that it confused me. I didn't think anything of the tips at first, and then I realized that they don't keep their color schemes once you start turning.

I wonder though, is keeping a solved puzzle open in another screen cheating? It seems cheap to me, but I'm not sure...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:58 pm 
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I went though and did 1.1.1-1.1.7, but for some reason my 1.1.5 time is showing up and not the 1.1.4 time which was about 2hrs. I'd hate to have to redo that one.

I had just about all of the 3.3.x cubes solved before the record system... Doing 3.3.2 and 3.3.3 was painful... but I have to get a time in eventually.

Perhaps I should switch to the 4-sided ones for a bit.

The goal is to solve as many of these as humanly possible. Erm, I still can't solve the Skewb.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:06 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
The goal is to solve as many of these as humanly possible. Erm, I still can't solve the Skewb.

-Doug


I tried to teach you in person but you were too stubborn and wanted to do it yourself.

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qqwref wrote:
By the way - the hardest part of Dogic is getting the color scheme right :P I hope you don't consider it cheating keeping a picture of the solved cube open in another window, I can't remember the color scheme you chose...

You don't have to restore the original color scheme. As long as opposite faces are paired(having same color), it is considered as "solved". 8-)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:58 am 
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Sorry to 'bump' this post up in a sense, but it was accidentally missed by someone. That or they just decided not to/forgot to leave a comment.

Is it possible? Some of them would just use half turns on some axises while others use quarter turns.

I'm not asking for them to be shape changing either. (As it says in the post)

Noah wrote:
Thank you! :D

And if it isn't too much trouble, do you think you could make some non shape shifting cuboid applets?

Here are some ones I really want.

4x4x5
4x4x6
3x4x5
2x3x4

Then some of the normal ones if you have time...

2x2x3
2x2x4
2x2x6
2x3x3
3x3x5
etc

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Noah, what about qqwref's IsoCubeSim? That supports lxmxn cuboids....

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Pembo wrote:
Noah, what about qqwref's IsoCubeSim? That supports lxmxn cuboids....
1) I prefer Gelatin Brain's applet over Michael's. (No offense. It just suits my preferences better.)

2) I like the rotatable view with both sides being shown at once.

3) This will let us record records and such.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Noah wrote:
Sorry to 'bump' this post up in a sense, but it was accidentally missed by someone. That or they just decided not to/forgot to leave a comment.

Is it possible? Some of them would just use half turns on some axises while others use quarter turns.

I'm not asking for them to be shape changing either. (As it says in the post)

Noah wrote:
Thank you! :D

And if it isn't too much trouble, do you think you could make some non shape shifting cuboid applets?

Here are some ones I really want.

4x4x5
4x4x6
3x4x5
2x3x4

Then some of the normal ones if you have time...

2x2x3
2x2x4
2x2x6
2x3x3
3x3x5
etc


Sorry, not that I've deliberately ignored your question. I was just too busy and 've forgotten afterward.
I think technically they are not so difficult to realize. But I've already many other ideas yet to realize and have too little time to spend for programming. At this moment my interest is rather for non-cubical and symmetric shapes. Later, maybe...
For cubboids, I think there are already many good applet, including qqwref's IsoCubeSim 8-) .

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Alright. Thank you for the speedy reply. I understand completely and I'm eager to see what else you have up your sleeve.

Regards,
Noah

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Noah wrote:
Pembo wrote:
Noah, what about qqwref's IsoCubeSim? That supports lxmxn cuboids....
1) I prefer Gelatin Brain's applet over Michael's. (No offense. It just suits my preferences better.)

2) I like the rotatable view with both sides being shown at once.

3) This will let us record records and such.


It looks that our posts have crossed on the line. :)
Don't get my last post as a refusal. I just meant that it is not for tomorrow.
And implementing 3) is not rather simple. If someone want to try, I will publish my sources. 8-)

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I wasn't taking it as a refusal, don't worry. I'm grateful that you're doing any of this at all. I understand that it is low on the priority list, and you're just doing this in your spare time.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:35 pm 
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"2) I like the rotatable view with both sides being shown at once. "

This makes it easier to Bot! :)

Okay so I noticed when solving the NxN cubes here that the turning recognition is very different. At first I didn't like it, but then it grew on me a bit. I feel that I was trained to left-click a face (on face turning puzzles) to turn it ccw and right-click to turn it clockwise. But for theese cubes, it's doing slices and wierd stuff. I wish there could be an option to turn this altenate behaivor off.

In reply to the thing I said about a toggle to lock the whole-puzzle orientation, that was not only for botting. A lot of times if I *slip* on my clicking, instead of making any turns it throws me into a different orientation that I find random, and usually have to click undo a bunch of times to get my bearings. This is especially true when there are no fixed pieces. So I still think it should be implemented.

So holding SHIFT goes in a layer. I was trying to set a fast time (as in PB) for the gigaminx last night and found that you have to hold SHIFT for a bit before doign the click for it to register (sort of like "setup-time" in circuit analysis). Another thing that might be helpful is to have a button that does double layer turns.

The next think I want to mention is that my 1.1.4 time never got registered. It will take 2hrs likely for me to re-do it (probably 3rd time), and I wanted some gurrentee that the record system code doesn't have some typo in it that makes this not show up. Can you think of a way that it could keep slipping by the sytem?


-Doug

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Upon closer inspection it is *possible* I mistook 1.1.2 and 1.1.4, but my solutions are essentially the same.

The following is a post from elsewhere that gives my status at Sep 25. I toss it here for my record keeping (so I can find it easily without bumping anything old, or having to look for it again):

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
So I will count the ones I've solved so far:

1.1.1 (Megaminx)*, 1.1.2, 1.1.3 (Pyraminx Crystal)*
1.1.9 (Gigaminx), 1.1.10
3.1.x*
3.2.1 (Skewb)*, 3.2.4 (Dino Cube)
3.2.6
5.1.1, 5.1.2 (Halpern-Meier Pyramid)
5.1.3 (Pyraminx)*, 5.1.4 (Master Pyraminx)
5.3.1, 5.3.2

*denotes solved in real life.

Need to Solve (for my record keeping purposes):

1.1.4, 1.1.5, 1.1.6, 1.1.7 (Pentultimate), 1.1.8
1.2.x, 1.3.x, 1.4.x
2.x.x
3.2.2 (Master Skewb), 3.2.3, 3.2.5 (Lattice Cube)
3.3.x, 3.4.x, 3.5.x
4.x.x
5.4.x
6.x.x

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single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:43 pm 
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Suggestion: If number of turns done so far is > M, and the scramble button is [accidently] hit, then pop up a dialog box asking "are you sure?"

On 1.1.4, I had all the corners and edges except was in the middle of trying to flip the last two. *screams*

UNDO at this point has some interesting effect.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:11 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Suggestion: If number of turns done so far is > M, and the scramble button is [accidently] hit, then pop up a dialog box asking "are you sure?"

On 1.1.4, I had all the corners and edges except was in the middle of trying to flip the last two. *screams*

UNDO at this point has some interesting effect.


-Doug


Hmm... the idea of a confirmation dialog box might be helpful. I don't think I've ever done it on this applet, but I've made similar mistakes before on other things :(

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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
The next think I want to mention is that my 1.1.4 time never got registered.


Your record of 1.1.4 hasn't arrived. Last night (1:00 AM at my place, now it's 11PM) I've got one for 1.1.5, after your post about 1.1.4. So I thought your were confusing two puzzles.
This applet is not checking the transfer error. So be sure that your are online before clicking "submit".
Thank you for many suggestions. I will take them into account... 8-)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Things labled 5.3.x are showing up labled 5.2.x on the record list. There are no 5.2.x beccuse face-turning and vertex-turning are equivalent on the 4-sided stuff.

What is a good method for solving the Master Pyraminx? I just got it solved. I don't know how I solved it a few months ago, but that was probably differnt too. This time I did edges-pairing first, and then solved like the Halpern Pyramid, which btw I suck at.

For Halpern-Meier Pyramid, I solve edges first, and then I can do 2-2-cycles on corners. If there needs to be a 3-corner cycle on the same face, I just do the single turn and cycle the edges using a commutator. For CO, I conjugate the 2-2-cycle alg.

Now on the Master Pyraminx, pairing edges it not too fun, and then there is a 2/3 chance of running into parity when encountering the segmented/induced Halpern-Meier Pyramid. WHICH BTW, could use two-layer turns! (as opposed to click and shift+click). Alright so the parity is easy to fix using a simple commutator. The question is... what approach did the two of you who have solved it use? Noah? Michael?

Btw, for pentultimate - I solved centers first, using the basic commutators (mostly intuition). Then I used an alg (R2' L2 R2 L2')^3 (possibly higher power, where R and L are faces that are non-adjacent). This alg did 2-2 cycles on the corners. For CO I then came up with an other alg that was more like (R' L R L')^3 that twisted 8 corners, five of them on D and conjugated it with single turns to produce twisting of corners on an outside orbital. Btw I did it in about 818 turns before the record keeping.

"I would like to request that the UNDO button trigger the undo to animate. It bothers me that it doens't." <- I posted this a few months ago and it was never adressed by the applet maker.

Also, waht about a redo button, when you've accidnetly gone back too far?


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:03 pm 
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Well, here's the basic way I solve Master Pyraminx (and its larger cousins the Master Octahedron and Master Icosahedron). It's got pretty good recognition and it's easy and fast, so it should lead to some good times on you guys' part :)
1) Twist all of the trivial corners so that they match, and you can see what the basic color scheme is.
2) Solve the (middle) edges. This is just like solving edges on Pyraminx/Magic Octa/Icosaminx; you can use the same algs, just don't worry about centers at all yet. You can hold shift during the entirety of this step.
3) Solve the centers. This is mostly done with a basic 2*2-cycle of the form (R'LRL')*3, conjugated and/or made into a 3-cycle depending on your needs. You can also hold shift during this step.
4) Solve the (outer) edges. You can do 4-move commutators for these, so this step is really easy, but the setup moves can be tricky at times. I use a sort of layer-by-layer method for this, but it isn't necessary. Be careful about "orientation" - there are 2 edges per color-pair (or 4 if you are doing the Master Icosahedron), so if you get one in the wrong slot you'll have to waste a bunch of moves getting it out again.

Well, I finally did manage to solve the Pentultimate, but I felt foolish when I went over here and found out you'd posted a skeleton solution while I was figuring it out :P Here's my solution, anyway, written out in long. If you're looking at a face I'd call the faces around it U, R, DR, DL, L (going clockwise), with that face being F.
1) Solve the centers. You can get the first 6 intuitively. Hold the puzzle so that you can see the last 6 centers. I use (DR U DR' U DR U2' DR'), which brings the center at DR to F, to solve F, and then (DR U DR' U DR U2' DR') F' (DR U DR' U DR U2' DR') to solve the rest (this is a 3-cycle, (U DR DL)).
2) Permute the corners. I found a 3-cycle of corners on the F face: U2 (L2 R2' L2' R2)3 U (L2 R2' L2' R2)3 U2, which permutes (FDLDR FUL FUR). You can invert this 3-cycle by just switching all the Ux to Ux'. I solved the corners in a layer-by-layer way (groups of 5) when I did it, to make it easier to see what was going on.
3) Orient the corners. My basic alg for this was (L'RLR')4 F2' (RL'R'L)4 F2; this twists FUR clockwise and FRDR counterclockwise. The inverse is just F2' (L'RLR')4 F2 (RL'R'L)4. Sometimes it makes it easier to see what's happening to orient a few corners during permutation; I did this when I saw two oppositely twisted corners adjacent to each other, which happened a lot.

In case my solution didn't get through (I'm not solving it again today, thank you!) I did it in 29:34 and 990 moves.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:08 pm 
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This record system is not something I trust 100%... I did a Pyraminx time of 25s/11 turns (FMC record) and *then* did Master Pyraminx (5.1.4), which has it's time posted now. Grrr...

I read the above Master Pyraminx approach and although interesting, I am feeling more confident in my edge-pairing approach, especially if going for fewest turns record. It would be a ton easier though if I had a real one in my hands. I don't see how you guys are getting such incredibly fast times on these applets. Or perhaps my hands are just not very dexterous. Like serious - I accidnetly hit the scramble button when trying to do a turn. And it takes me over 60s to do the 3x3 here. I can't use the split view as well as you guys I bet.

I think I'll take out the gigaminx and that other gigaminx-like one next.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:16 am 
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Split view? I don't really use it. Unless I'm doing complicated algorithms on tricky puzzles and I don't want to lose my place, I don't do turns on the right side, or even look at it. If you want to be really fast on a puzzle you're confident with, turn the animation off, and then use fast turning and plenty of cube rotation. That's the way I do it, and it hasn't failed me yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:18 am 
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I finally turned off animation. I think that was slowing me down a lot. And from a programming perspective I think that the animation is unstable, a bit faulty sometimes.

I think there is still room for improving the code for these things.

Any how After about an hour, I finshed 1.1.10, the gigaminx like thing. I fong some pretty efficent ways of doing the edge pieces and the center pieces. I did it in 1070 turns, which would have been much less if I realized earlier that I made a mistake. When I got started on the segmented-megaminx... right after getting "F2L", I found that I had two centers swapped, i.e. wrong color scheme. I do it all the time on 4x4, but at least there I can fix it without utterly ruining my edges. I bet I can get under 800 turns the next time I try it. My megaminx solution is not very effiecent probably, so that's something else I can work on.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:55 am 
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Okay, now I'm feeling quite cheated. I had at least the following things not recorded: a 4x4 solve, an 11-turn pyraminx solve, and 2.2.1 (the first of the vertex-turning icosahedron). I suspect my shabby internet connection is to blame...

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:39 am 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
I found that I had two centers swapped, i.e. wrong color scheme. I do it all the time on 4x4
-Doug


Maybe it's because you have the most bizarre color scheme out there. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:44 pm 
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Dino Cube solved in 1 attempt with 5 turns. Hem... maybe it wasn't as hard as I had thought. *preys that it get's recorded*

So any ideas on how to check for a transfer error, in the record submission?

Anyhow, I'm impressed at this sub-30m solve on Pentultimate. About the same number of turns I do, but you guys do it so much faster! And sub-15m gigaminx solve, GOSH! At least I might be able to beat the fewest moves record of 940 turns.

Noah needs to catch up and solve the Pentultimate now :).

Now why is it that I'm the only one listed under 1.1.5? Any of you guys attempt this yet?

And what about those strange spherical ones? I find those quite impossible, and wouldn't even know where to begin if I wanted to write a solver program for one, cuz they are essentially "shape-changing" or "bandaged" depending on how you look at it.

I just did some 5.2.1 solves (the first of the edge-turning tetraherdon). And I get solves of over 100 turns sometimes, while you two get 20 and 27 turns! You guys must have some wicked algs that I haven't figured out yet for them...


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:28 am 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Dino Cube solved in 1 attempt with 5 turns. Hem... maybe it wasn't as hard as I had thought.

That sounds like way below the average optimal number of moves, must have been really easy :P Like that 4 move 2x2x2 solve that guy did. I don't know what is up with that. I think some of these movecount things rely more on luck than anything else :)

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Anyhow, I'm impressed at this sub-30m solve on Pentultimate. About the same number of turns I do, but you guys do it so much faster!

I dunno; I only solved the puzzle once, so I didn't put that much effort into doing it quickly, as much as just being careful. I guess I can just recognize cycles / see setup moves faster? I also click sort of fast, so once I got used to the 3 cycle (about halfway through the corners step) I was doing the algorithm really quickly. (By the way, 3 cycles are so easy to use that even a long one is better than a short 2-2-cycle or something).

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
And sub-15m gigaminx solve, GOSH! At least I might be able to beat the fewest moves record of 940 turns.

Well, this one I'd consider a fast time :) I'm pretty fast at 5x5x5, and decent at megaminx, so they just went together. Took me probably 10-20 solves to get this fast, but still. (Also Chris Brownlee is insane for getting sub-10 on a real one. Really. That's totally crazy.)

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Now why is it that I'm the only one listed under 1.1.5? Any of you guys attempt this yet?

I think you've solved a few more puzzles than I have, or at least a few hard ones that I haven't :P I'll figure this one out eventually.

Also I have to do 2.2.12 some time. That one will be brutal, 60 little triangles to move around and all I have is a 5 cycle...

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
I just did some 5.2.1 solves (the first of the edge-turning tetraherdon). And I get solves of over 100 turns sometimes, while you two get 20 and 27 turns! You guys must have some wicked algs that I haven't figured out yet for them...

I dunno, I found this one pretty simple. My basic method is this:
1) Solve the edges. Well, that's easy, just click to flip them.
2) Solve the single triangles. There's an easy 3-cycle, which looks like UR UL UR UL or something like that.
3) Solve the corner triangles. There's no orientation, so just worry about getting them into place. FL (FU FR FU FR) FL (FR FU FR FU) is a 3-cycle around the front face (if you have the faces be U, F, L, R).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:46 pm 
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Anybody else had trouble with the record system? I solved the 4x4 like once in the morning, once in the afternoon, and once at night - for the past 3 days now, and nothing is getting recorded for it. My other puzzle times are getting in though... with a few exceptions but 4x4 is consitantly being missed.

I think I should practice the megaminx here a bit before doing the gigaminx again. I'm probably not doing the last layer very efficently. I do edges then CP and then CO.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:58 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Noah needs to catch up and solve the Pentultimate now :).
-Doug


Hey, I will eventually. Keep in mind that all I have is my laptop touchpad. When I get home and get my wireless mouse on the 19th/20th, I'll crank out a lot more solves.

Plus I still need to write the monthly newsletter. I've been busy with finals. I, unlike you Doug, would like to actually graduate. :) [Oh burn.]

qqwref wrote:
UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
I just did some 5.2.1 solves (the first of the edge-turning tetraherdon). And I get solves of over 100 turns sometimes, while you two get 20 and 27 turns! You guys must have some wicked algs that I haven't figured out yet for them...

I dunno, I found this one pretty simple. My basic method is this:
1) Solve the edges. Well, that's easy, just click to flip them.
2) Solve the single triangles. There's an easy 3-cycle, which looks like UR UL UR UL or something like that.
3) Solve the corner triangles. There's no orientation, so just worry about getting them into place. FL (FU FR FU FR) FL (FR FU FR FU) is a 3-cycle around the front face (if you have the faces be U, F, L, R).


My method is completely different...

1) Solve Corners (Can be done in 2 moves.)
2) Orient Centers
3) Solve Center triangles.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:39 am 
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Please note the numbering errors in the 2.2 section on the records page.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:13 pm 
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This should be worthy of announcing here:

I solved the first vertex-turning dodecahedron (1.2.1). I believe I'm the first to have sucessfully completed it.

3705 turns, ~18 hrs (cuz I had to sleep, eat breakfast, and then lunch)

I solved corners first, it was very intuitive. Then I did centers with the simple commutator (xyx'y', where each are a single turn of adj verticies). Next I did the obtuse trinagular pieces using a 50-turn alg of the form [(xyx'y')^6, q], where x and y are adj vertex and q is a single turn of a vertex two edges away on another face. Then I had this simple alg for doing 5-cycles of the acute trinagular pieces on 3 faces. It was length 18. It looks like [(xyx'y')^2, p)] where x and y are adj vertex and q is on the same face as x and y but not adj to either. Using the right setup moves a 5-cycle is all that is needed... it is not necessary to perform it twice.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:42 pm 
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I managed to solve the order 3 face-turning octahedron!

It was alot easier after I found a simple 3-cycle of the one-color center pieces: (R E R') D (R E' R') D'
For the notation, hold it like a triangular antiprism (ie, with a U and D face) E is the equatorial middle slice (ie, underneath U). R is a side with one corner in the D slice (and 2 corners in the R slice).

I was excited to find that because I had thought placing those pieces was going to be alot harder and then that alg suddenly occured to me today! (I had actually procrastinated this puzzle for a while before just now)

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