Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum
 It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:08 pm

 All times are UTC - 5 hours

 Page 2 of 62 [ 3096 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 62  Next
 Print view Previous topic | Next topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:09 am

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:02 pm
We could probably write a .def file for ksolve for some of these puzzles. To find optimal algorithms. It would be rather tricky though.

_________________
3x3: PB 9.64
http://www.xanga.com/j_ey

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:17 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
I found a very long way to for the most part solve the Little Chop. I still believe there will be permution errors as well as orientation errors. I think if one can determine and eliminate these in the beginning, it wouldn't be a problem in the end.

[UF UR FR]x3 UR FR

14 moves clockwise around UFR essentially does BDL' on a Dino.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:36 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
Noah: Well, as far as the 3x3x3 Dino and some similar puzzles, I wonder whether you have actually solved with the right color ordering. Since there are no pieces with 3 colors (like corner pieces on the 3x3x3) you could solve the centers themselves incorrectly, which might lead to a parity or might not (not sure). Are you sure you've done it right?

Nice algorithm on the Fat Helicopter Cube, by the way. It's a little long but it seems useful.

As far as Little Chop - this is a pretty useful algorithm, but unfortunately you can't solve the entire thing that way. Look at a scrambled one and you'll notice that there are not 12 2-colored pieces, but actually 24 1-colored pieces! Very tricky.

joey: I like the idea about ksolve! It could take a while, though, since there really are an awful lot of possible turns, and you'd really have to choose an alg you wanted to search for instead of just trying to find any old 3-cycle.

By the way, I discovered something interesting about the center pieces on the Helicopter Cube (and similar pieces on other edge turning cubes): there are four 'orbits' of pieces, each with one piece of each of the six colors. Assuming the puzzle is not jumbled, pieces can never leave their orbits. What this means is that, when solving, instead of solving in a sort of direct solve layer-by-layer fashion, it would be more efficient to solve one orbit at a time, using three-cycles (which operate on one orbit) and pairs of two-cycles (which operate on two orbits).

Also, I think it's about time for some more interesting algs:
Fat Helicopter Cube: (UR UF UR UF UR) DR (UR UF UR UF UR) DR, three +center cycle
Little Chop: UR UL UR, switch color scheme
Edge-Turning Pyraminx: FL (FU FR FU FR) FL (FR FU FR FU), clockwise 3-corner cycle on F (note that each corner has only one possible orientation)
3.3.2 or 3.3.3: (UF DR UF DR) FR (DR UF DR UF) FR, two edge flipper with messed up outer triangles

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:56 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
qqwref wrote:
Noah: Well, as far as the 3x3x3 Dino and some similar puzzles, I wonder whether you have actually solved with the right color ordering. Since there are no pieces with 3 colors (like corner pieces on the 3x3x3) you could solve the centers themselves incorrectly, which might lead to a parity or might not (not sure). Are you sure you've done it right?

It is possible to achieve both color solutions, just like you can with a dino. I don't think this is a parity. (And I had checked, it was BOY around a corner).

qqwref wrote:
Nice algorithm on the Fat Helicopter Cube, by the way. It's a little long but it seems useful.

Thanks. It's one of the few helpful things I've provided in this topic. Anything I can do to help.

qqwref wrote:
As far as Little Chop - this is a pretty useful algorithm, but unfortunately you can't solve the entire thing that way. Look at a scrambled one and you'll notice that there are not 12 2-colored pieces, but actually 24 1-colored pieces! Very tricky.

Ah! I realized that when I found the same scheme changing alg, but I didn't even think about it when I posted that.

qqwref wrote:
joey: I like the idea about ksolve! It could take a while, though, since there really are an awful lot of possible turns, and you'd really have to choose an alg you wanted to search for instead of just trying to find any old 3-cycle.

I don't really understand what you're talking about. Could you explain?

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:00 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:02 pm
Noah wrote:
qqwref wrote:
joey: I like the idea about ksolve! It could take a while, though, since there really are an awful lot of possible turns, and you'd really have to choose an alg you wanted to search for instead of just trying to find any old 3-cycle.

I don't really understand what you're talking about. Could you explain?

I think you might have missed the posts about ksolve.
It is a solving program that can find optimal solutions/algorithms for most puzzles (it can't for the square-1 at the moment). You write a definition file that defines all the pieces on a puzzle, and how a turn affects each piece. Then feed it into ksolve, along with the configuration you want to solve, and it finds solutions.

_________________
3x3: PB 9.64
http://www.xanga.com/j_ey

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:09 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
joey wrote:
Noah wrote:
qqwref wrote:
joey: I like the idea about ksolve! It could take a while, though, since there really are an awful lot of possible turns, and you'd really have to choose an alg you wanted to search for instead of just trying to find any old 3-cycle.

I don't really understand what you're talking about. Could you explain?

I think you might have missed the posts about ksolve.
It is a solving program that can find optimal solutions/algorithms for most puzzles (it can't for the square-1 at the moment). You write a definition file that defines all the pieces on a puzzle, and how a turn affects each piece. Then feed it into ksolve, along with the configuration you want to solve, and it finds solutions.
I saw the post about ksolve, but I didn't know what it was. Thanks for the clarification.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:38 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
The high score feature has been added to the applets. I don't know how to view them, but I've been prompted.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:29 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
Noah wrote:
The high score feature has been added to the applets. I don't know how to view them, but I've been prompted.

Hi,

The date is not automatically reflected on my site. Your score is sent to me by e-mail. I will process them manually when I gathered enough records.
Don't worry, I'm not gathering your personnal infos. I only get your name and your score. In anycase it's impossible to access client's resource without signing the applet. I don't even know the sender's e-mail address.

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:03 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
I think it would be interesting, also, if the high score also had a record of the solve, so that people could watch the high scores unfolding. I don't know how difficult this would be, though... I guess you'd have to save the time (in milliseconds, probably) of every move in the solving history, as well as the entire scramble.

By the way, could you change all of the color schemes in the applet to reflect the color schemes in the downloadable program? I'd like to have the Mefferts color scheme on the Gigaminx applet, for example.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:08 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
qqwref wrote:
I think it would be interesting, also, if the high score also had a record of the solve, so that people could watch the high scores unfolding. I don't know how difficult this would be, though... I guess you'd have to save the time (in milliseconds, probably) of every move in the solving history, as well as the entire scramble.

By the way, could you change all of the color schemes in the applet to reflect the color schemes in the downloadable program? I'd like to have the Mefferts color scheme on the Gigaminx applet, for example.

Really interesting idea.
I think it is not so difficult, but will require certain amount of labor. In the future update, maybe...
I changed the applet color scheme of dodecahedra familly. I hope no one complains.
I also fixed the bug of "solved" judgement for certain cubes' (only for the applet. The downloadable version is now under large scale reform. It will certainly be fixed with the next update).

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:27 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:53 pm
Location: Los Angeles
You know what this applet needs? Super group stickers. I would suggest that instead of just allowing for a color on a side, you also allow for use of textures.

Can you think of some of these puzzles as supercubes? *shudder*

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:47 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
Hey, we haven't even solved them all yet

But it would be cool to have a supercube option for each puzzle. Of course there would have to be a separate high score list. It would be pretty cool.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:56 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
TBTTyler wrote:
You know what this applet needs? Super group stickers. I would suggest that instead of just allowing for a color on a side, you also allow for use of textures.

Can you think of some of these puzzles as supercubes? *shudder*

I think mapping any pictures is not very interesting from the solver's point of view, because all pieces are easily recognizable.
Abstract patterns like mazes or arrows are more interesting.
Non-directional mazes and arrows would demand different approach.
These could be dissected diagonally too. It's also possible to apply to other shapes.
I'm now programming a maze pentultimate and maze icosaminx.

I'm sure this is more challenging than 12 colored or even 6 colored version.
This will come at next update with other cool new puzzles.

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:05 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
I guess the maze idea is sort of interesting, but the only thing it really does is add difficulty unnecessarily. It doesn't make the solver understand the puzzle any more, just forces them to spend more time trying to figure out what goes where. For some of the maze cubes, I don't think you can really solve it (in the same way as you would solve a normally colored puzzle) without planning it out first on paper or something... at that point most of the puzzle is not in actually doing turns on the polyhedron, but matching the patterns together, as in the "Pattern Matching" puzzles on Jaap's page.

What I was thinking of for supercubes was something like the faded colors near the bottom of http://ultimatemagiccube.com/ - some kind of image that would let the solver easily figure out what orientation the piece was in, but that would also force the piece to go in a specific place (and not just anywhere on one face) to solve the puzzle.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:28 am

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
qqwref wrote:
I guess the maze idea is sort of interesting, but the only thing it really does is add difficulty unnecessarily. It doesn't make the solver understand the puzzle any more, just forces them to spend more time trying to figure out what goes where.

Yes, for a maze pattern, you have to choose a simple, easily recognizable mathematical patterns. The maze on the dodecahedron above is a simple 3D trefoil. But maybe it is not easy to see at first glance.
The maze solution is not necessarily to recover the original pattern, but just to eliminate missing links. So there could be multiple solutions.

I think the idea of fading colors is only interesting with puzzles with interieur pieces, because the orientation of corners and edges are already determined. This faded megaminx would be more challenging if the coloring doesn't matter(sort of arrow-megaminx).

The bandage idea, too, is interesting. The Skewb Ultimate is a kind of bandaged version of my 1.2.2, isn't it?

Thank you also for sending many scores. I think I can publish them within a week or so.

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:32 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

You are forced to move 2 layers when it is possible to move them independently. http://twistypuzzles.com/large/01353-05.jpg

===========================

Same issue. http://twistypuzzles.com/large/01350-03.jpg

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:24 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
Isn't that the way the puzzle works? There's a dodecahedron like that as well, and perhaps others. I think those are supposed to be puzzles that scramble with slice turns only.

By the way - could you make the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 work like the Gigaminx, that is, with shift+click to move the 2nd layer?

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:43 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
qqwref wrote:
Isn't that the way the puzzle works? There's a dodecahedron like that as well, and perhaps others. I think those are supposed to be puzzles that scramble with slice turns only.

By the way - could you make the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 work like the Gigaminx, that is, with shift+click to move the 2nd layer?
If you look at the pictures, you see the move independently.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:41 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
Noah wrote:
qqwref wrote:
Isn't that the way the puzzle works? There's a dodecahedron like that as well, and perhaps others. I think those are supposed to be puzzles that scramble with slice turns only.

By the way - could you make the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 work like the Gigaminx, that is, with shift+click to move the 2nd layer?
If you look at the pictures, you see the move independently.

3.2.3 & 3.2.4 are supposed to be slice-cut only, as well as the dodecahedral 1.1.8. The scramble too, is done to slices only. So theorically you can solve them only by slice operations. It's just to simplify the interface. When I made these, I didn't have yet the idea of shift+click.
Maybe it's confusing for some people. It would be better to apply the same rule to all puzzles:
degrees simple click : outer layer
degrees shift + click: inner layer
As for my taste, I like to avoid shift+click as far as possible.
How do you think ?

Here is the score ranking. It is linked from the main page too.
Thank you for your participation. The competition is always open and new records will be reflected within a day (in principle).

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:33 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
I don't think shift+click is that bad, especially on the larger puzzles. It really tends to make the itnerface simpler, because the area you have to click on to make a turn becomes much larger.

As for the score rankings - would it be unreasonable to only keep the top 2 or 3 scores from each person? It wouldn't be fair for someone who is very fast at a particular puzzle to just submit 6 good times and shove everyone else out of the rankings.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:49 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1) Thanks for the scores.

2) I can just use the opposite corner to achieve the slice, so I guess I can deal.

3) Upon further inspection of 3.2.5, it is NOT the lattice cube. It's almost like the Skewb is equivalent to a 3x3, The Master Skewb (3.2.2) is like a 5x5, and 3.2.5 is like a 4x4 in the Skewb family. The Lattice Cube is like a 3x3 if a Dino was a 2x2.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:45 pm

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Carnegie Mellon
wow, that is an amazing database of puzzles. I'm having a hard time interpreting some of the displays, but that just because im no good at simulated puzzles. would it be possible to do a 3d rendition? id love to help out if i have time, but with college apps and school, i havent had too much time recently. very nice work, im sure ill be able to appreciate it a lot more once i have more experience with flattened puzzles

side note, which of these puzzles are mechanically possible and realistically producible?

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:49 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

1)Solve 2 opposite edges. (Groups of 4 pieces per edge)
- Note: Make sure you build the edges in between the two colors they belong.
2) Solve remaining 4 edges.
3) Solve the corners.
- Note: Make sure the centers are right.
4) Orient the edges.
5) Use simple algorithms to swap inner pieces.

=======================================

I have found an algorithm that swaps two inner pieces.

Notation.

Left side of screen.
Up = U
Left = L
Right = R
Down = D

Right side of screen.
Up = u
Left = l
Right = r
Down = d

Algorithm: U' ( R U R' U )*6 U

Note, at the end, you end up doing U twice, essentially making it U'. I just left it as is to make the algorithm look nicer.

Also, if you were to ignore the beginning and end Us, it swaps two different pieces.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:42 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:59 pm
Location: Houston, TX, USA
I wrote a little rough draft of a webpage on the helicopter cube.
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/cubee2.html

I'm planning on doing similar articles for many other puzzles, I'm just trying to decide on a "style" of sorts (I'm trying to make something that you can read a little of it, try to solve it yourself, then read a little more if you get stuck, etc, until you solve it)

unfortunately, as far the the "progessive revelation" approach goes, there's not too much to say about the heli cube. but for other puzzles I think it could work pretty well.

_________________
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/umchome.html
My website, IT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE but it used to be the only site with "official" guides for the Helicopter Cube, SuperX, Master Skewb, and many more!

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:20 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
The algorithm I gave for the Dino Octa actually swaps more pieces than I though. I'll update you when I figure out what the heck it really does.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:08 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Hey qqwref, I'm still beating you in a few things, what gives? Hurry up and kick my butt in those categories too.

[EDIT]

I finished solving this.

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... cta_f2.htm

[EDIT2]

I solved this with the same algorithm.

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... cta_f1.htm

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:35 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
Noah wrote:
Hey qqwref, I'm still beating you in a few things, what gives? Hurry up and kick my butt in those categories too.

Well, I'm not much for movecount (especially in some puzzles where you can get a really low movecount just by being lucky), but I'll beat a few more of your times if you insist

I'm not going to do a 1.1.10 solve until I figure out how to do the centers quickly, though... I don't really have the patience to do things slowly and inefficiently, so we'll see if I can find an efficient way to do it

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:03 am

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Nice that y'all are making progress on the 8-sided guys, I never solved most of them becasue I hate the views it gives, theoretically if I can solve much of the 4,6,and 12 sided ones these shouldnt' pose any new challenges right?

Perhaps an option to allow the puzzle to stay freely in the rotation you leave it?

As for why you don't see me on the time record lists is because I solved most of them before this was implemented, and don't have time to re-solve them competitively despite being a very competitive person... I'll well.

-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
I'm having a problem solving this newly added puzzle.

I just need to swap these 3 center pieces.

(For the record, 4.1.2, 4.1.3, and 4.1.4 have very similar methods.)

 Attachments: temp.jpg [ 49.45 KiB | Viewed 4639 times ]

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.
Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:54 am

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
I did find an algorithm, but it was very tough to find one. Call the four faces you can see U, D, L, R, and then the faces behind them are BU, BD, BL, and BR.

BD' D (L' R BD R' L) D (L' R BD' R' L) D BD (D U D U')*2 - this does a three-cycle of centers: (L BD BU). But it messes up the trapezoidal corners a bit.

If you want two 2-cycles, you can just do this:

(D U D' U')*3 - does (R BU)(L BD)

So here's the way I'd do it:
1) Edges, intuitive.
2) Tips, with 3-cycles and the two-tip-twist algorithm.
3) Centers, with the algorithms above.
4) Corner trapezoids, with the 24-move 5-cycle.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:31 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
qqwref wrote:
I did find an algorithm, but it was very tough to find one. Call the four faces you can see U, D, L, R, and then the faces behind them are BU, BD, BL, and BR.

BD' D (L' R BD R' L) D (L' R BD' R' L) D BD (D U D U')*2 - this does a three-cycle of centers: (L BD BU). But it messes up the trapezoidal corners a bit.

Very nice. I'm curious, how did you find it? Did you take the Skewb Diamond and find that alternate algorithm? Impressive though, thank you.
qqwref wrote:

If you want two 2-cycles, you can just do this:

(D U D' U')*3 - does (R BU)(L BD)
I had found that one on my own, but it is impossible to use that to fix multiple centers if you know what I mean.
qqwref wrote:

So here's the way I'd do it:
1) Edges, intuitive.
2) Tips, with 3-cycles and the two-tip-twist algorithm.
3) Centers, with the algorithms above.
4) Corner trapezoids, with the 24-move 5-cycle.

That will do it. That's exactly how I do it.

For the record, the edges are solved like a Dino or a Dino variant.

 Solved Thanks to your 3 cycle. Now blow my time out of the water.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:02 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
Noah wrote:
qqwref wrote:
I did find an algorithm, but it was very tough to find one. Call the four faces you can see U, D, L, R, and then the faces behind them are BU, BD, BL, and BR.

BD' D (L' R BD R' L) D (L' R BD' R' L) D BD (D U D U')*2 - this does a three-cycle of centers: (L BD BU). But it messes up the trapezoidal corners a bit.

Very nice. I'm curious, how did you find it? Did you take the Skewb Diamond and find that alternate algorithm? Impressive though, thank you.

Well, I started with the (D U D U')*2 thing, which does a 3-cycle of centers, but also a three-cycle of edges (the 3 edges on one face). So I then tried to find a commutator which would do an edge 3-cycle, and I found (L' R BD R' L) D (L' R BD' R' L) D': the part in parentheses changes one edge of the D layer and nothing else, so this was a pretty intuitive commutator to try. This is then conjugated by BD' D to get all the edges on one face, and then after I had that edge 3-cycle I just had to apply the right algorithm after that to turn it into a center 3-cycle.

It was pretty hard to find that, but it's very intuitive if you pick it apart.

Noah wrote:
 Solved Thanks to your 3 cycle. Now blow my time out of the water.

Look closer, I already did I actually did two or three solves around the time that I posted the algorithm here.

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:25 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
qqwref wrote:
Noah wrote:
 Solved Thanks to your 3 cycle. Now blow my time out of the water.

Look closer, I already did I actually did two or three solves around the time that I posted the algorithm here.

I forgot the time postings weren't instantaneous.

How are you so fast at all of these puzzles? I feel like I'm moderately fast, but you just demolish my times that I feel are very solid.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:44 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm
Location: NY, USA
It's sort of a combination of things. I have pretty good recognition from doing a lot of 5x5x5 and computer cubes (since for those puzzles you have to look for colors, pairs of colors, or patterns of colors, rather than corner-edge pairs or whatever for 3x3x3, so it generalizes well to other puzzles). Also, I'm pretty fast and accurate at using my mouse, so I can do algorithms pretty quickly - for example, my record on the 2x2x2 on that simulator was 15 moves in 7 seconds. Finally (and I don't know if you're already doing this or not) I always try to turn off the animations; this can make the puzzle a lot more difficult if it's something like the Alexander's Star where you get lose easily, but usually it makes the algs faster and a little easier to do without mistakes, while also letting you recognize things more quickly.

If you'd like, I could make a video of me doing a specific puzzle and put it on youtube or something. Would that help?

_________________
My official times
Puzzle Solving Service! - a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:11 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
qqwref wrote:
It's sort of a combination of things. I have pretty good recognition from doing a lot of 5x5x5 and computer cubes (since for those puzzles you have to look for colors, pairs of colors, or patterns of colors, rather than corner-edge pairs or whatever for 3x3x3, so it generalizes well to other puzzles). Also, I'm pretty fast and accurate at using my mouse, so I can do algorithms pretty quickly - for example, my record on the 2x2x2 on that simulator was 15 moves in 7 seconds. Finally (and I don't know if you're already doing this or not) I always try to turn off the animations; this can make the puzzle a lot more difficult if it's something like the Alexander's Star where you get lose easily, but usually it makes the algs faster and a little easier to do without mistakes, while also letting you recognize things more quickly.

If you'd like, I could make a video of me doing a specific puzzle and put it on youtube or something. Would that help?

Makes sense and thanks for the helpful animation hint.

See, I'm not too much of speed big cube solver, but I just play with them and solve them many different ways. I dunno. I like to find new solutions to things and such.

I'd love to see a Fat Helicopter Cube solve or a Master Pyraminx one.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:40 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:02 pm
qqwref wrote:
If you'd like, I could make a video of me doing a specific puzzle and put it on youtube or something. Would that help?

If by "specific puzzle", you mean "all puzzles", yes please! qqwref, that would be awesome! Although, it still doesn't work on my mac.

_________________
3x3: PB 9.64
http://www.xanga.com/j_ey

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:01 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Gelatin Brain, could you please change 3.2.5? Either remove the name Lattice cube, or make it function like a Lattice cube please.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:35 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
Noah wrote:
Gelatin Brain, could you please change 3.2.5? Either remove the name Lattice cube, or make it function like a Lattice cube please.

I removed the naming. Sorry for the confusion that caused.
I also removed the name of "Master Skewb" and "Helicopter Cube", because they are not completely identic.
Maybe I should remove all possibly trade marks to avoid confusions...

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:54 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
gelatinbrain wrote:
Noah wrote:
Gelatin Brain, could you please change 3.2.5? Either remove the name Lattice cube, or make it function like a Lattice cube please.

I removed the naming. Sorry for the confusion that caused.
I also removed the name of "Master Skewb" and "Helicopter Cube", because they are not completely identic.
Maybe I should remove all possibly trade marks to avoid confusions...

I had no problem with the naming really, it's just 3.2.5 did not function like a higher order Rainbow Cube (Dino). As for the Master Skewb, only one person has made that, and two have made the Helicopter cube. Except the other person calls it the Bevel cube.

I don't really care about the names, I just was wanting a Lattice cube.

I hope I didn't sound mean or angry. Re reading my post, I seemed irritated. I really wasn't.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:36 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
Noah wrote:
I don't really care about the names, I just was wanting a Lattice cube.

I hope I didn't sound mean or angry. Re reading my post, I seemed irritated. I really wasn't.

You didn't sound angry or anything at all. Don't worry.

I'd like to make a lattice cube simulation, but I don't understand its behavior well from this. I understand that first two layers turn.
But Does it change the shape? I mean if succession of 60Âș turns around different axes is possible?
As for the Helicopter Cube, According to some sources, it could change the shape, while mine doesn't. That's why I removed the naming.

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:34 pm

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:51 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota, USA
gelatinbrain wrote:

I'd like to make a lattice cube simulation, but I don't understand its behavior well from this. I understand that first two layers turn.
But Does it change the shape? I mean if succession of 60Âș turns around different axes is possible?

No it does not change shape. It only does 120Âș turns. Maybe the pictures in the link will help you to understand it better.

http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/latticecube.html

gelatinbrain wrote:
As for the Helicopter Cube, According to some sources, it could change the shape, while mine doesn't. That's why I removed the naming.

For me personally I like it to have the name on there because it is easier to know what it is.

_________________
Darren & Traiphum's Dual Helicoptrahedron
X-TownCuber wrote:
Are my eyes deceiving me, or is this the coolest puzzle ever?

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:04 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
Darren Grewe wrote:
No it does not change shape. It only does 120Âș turns. Maybe the pictures in the link will help you to understand it better.

http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/latticecube.html

Then it's quite simple. It must be something like this.

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
troubleshooting

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:20 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Thank you!

And if it isn't too much trouble, do you think you could make some non shape shifting cuboid applets?

Here are some ones I really want.

4x4x5
4x4x6
3x4x5
2x3x4

Then some of the normal ones if you have time...

2x2x3
2x2x4
2x2x6
2x3x3
3x3x5
etc

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:56 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
I didn't want to start a new thread for a stupid question:

Where is gelatinbrain's site located? I'm in the mood to give his applets a shot.

Also, which one is the pyraminx crystal? If Mefferts is going to be releasing them, I at least want a little bit of practice.

_________________
Do it.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:20 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... /index.htm

Applet 1.1.3 is the Pyraminx Crystal.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:44 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Thanks! I hate asking stupid questions, but I'm pretty much not thinking today

_________________
Do it.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:53 am

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Noah wrote:
And if it isn't too much trouble, do you think you could make some non shape shifting cuboid applets?

Here are some ones I really want.
4x4x5
4x4x6
3x4x5
2x3x4

Then some of the normal ones if you have time...
2x2x3
2x2x4
2x2x6
2x3x3
3x3x5
etc

So I'm going to have to second that.

I might be getting back into this stuff.
Back in MI, btw if anyone cares.

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:25 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Well, seeing as I made a stupid post last time I posted in this thread, I decided to try and redeem myself with appropriate conversation

Well, seeing as I just ordered a pyraminx crystal, I decided to start playing with one on the applet.

I have discovered how to commutate edges around the middle (?) layer of the puzzle. I'm guessing I could use this to solve edges, although the setup moves would be tricky. It's funny, because with minor tweaks I'll bet I could create better cycles

I think I'm going to go for a corners first method, and they commutate my way to the finish. Either that, or a layer by layer idea.

Oh, and before I forget, I've just been playing around with the pyra-crystal in its solved state. Looking at it scrambled is still too confusing for me, I need to get used to the "double layered" movement of it.

Is there any sort of crazy parity issues with this puzzle that I should be looking for?

_________________
Do it.

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:28 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
no parities, those edges are just like edges of a pyraminx... if you are comfortable solving pyraminx edges intuitively than just apply the same stuff here.

In other news, I solved the Pentultimate again, now that the record keeping system is up. It's going to show up as 3 hrs but I took lots of breaks and got everything except 2 twisted corners on the same face, at 55 minutes in. I'm going to try again and beat 1hr.

-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03

Top

 Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:34 pm

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Well, I figured out how to get one layer of the pyra-crystal, and I'm pretty much stuck here. I've got a few mins left before I need to get a shower, and this thing doesn't have a save function!!!

I am going to have trouble figuring out how to get the middle layer (I think it's the middle...) edges solved. I'm thinking I might just work out an easy corner solution, and start commutating like crazy.

_________________
Do it.

Top

 Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending
 Page 2 of 62 [ 3096 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 62  Next

 All times are UTC - 5 hours

#### Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Burgo, Google Adsense [Bot], Naz and 6 guests

 You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
 Jump to:  Select a forum ------------------ Announcements General Puzzle Topics New Puzzles Puzzle Building and Modding Puzzle Collecting Solving Puzzles Marketplace Non-Twisty Puzzles Site Comments, Suggestions & Questions Content Moderators Off Topic