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 Post subject: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:57 pm 
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A mouthful to say, but recently a lot of people have been using

gelatinbrain's applet page to play with puzzles.

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... /index.htm

Here you can discuss which ones you have solve and how.

POST YOUR SOLUTIONS IN THIS THREAD AND I WILL LINK THE INDIVIDUAL POSTS.

Please post here and I will edit links in for additional puzzle solutions.

NOTE: Some puzzles have been solved, yet there is no written solution. Once solutions for the puzzles are written, I will link them.

NOTE 2: If better solutions for puzzles occur, I will try to change the link.

===============================================================

Links lead to SOLUTIONS. Not the applets. Follow the link in the

previous section for the applets.


Dodecahedra


1.1 Twisting around face
1.1.1 (Megaminx)
1.1.2 (Megaminx & Pyraminx Crystal Hybrid)
1.1.3 (Pyraminx Crystal)
1.1.4
1.1.5
1.1.6
1.1.7 (Pentultimate)
1.1.8
1.1.9 (Gigaminx)
1.1.10 (Master Pyraminx Crystal)

1.2 Twisting around vertices
1.2.1
1.2.2
1.2.3
1.2.4
1.2.5

1.3 Twisting around faces and vertices
1.3.1
1.3.2
1.3.3
1.3.4

1.4 Twisting around edges
1.4.1
1.4.2

===============================================================

Icosahedra

2.1 Twisting around faces
2.1.1
2.1.2
2.1.3

2.2 Twisting around vertices
2.2.1 (Lee Tutt's Pyracosaminx)
2.2.2 (Icosaminx)
2.2.3
2.2.4
2.2.5
2.2.6

2.3 Twisting around faces and vertices
2.3.1

2.4 Twisting around vertices (edges only)
2.4.1 (Alexander's Star standard 6 color)
2.4.2 (Alexander's Star custom 10 color)

2.5 Twisting around edges
2.5.1

===============================================================

Hexahedra

3.1 Twisting around faces (Rubik's cubes)
3.1.1 (Pocket Cube)
3.1.2 (Rubik's Cube)
3.1.3 (Rubik's Revenge)
3.1.4 (Professor's Cube)

3.2 Twisting around vertices
3.2.1 (Skewb)
3.2.2 (Master Skewb)
3.2.3 (Professor's Skewb)
3.2.4 (Dino Cube)
3.2.5 (Lattice Cube)
3.2.6 (Fat Dino Cube)

3.3 Twisting around edges
3.3.1 (Helicopter/Bevel Cube)
3.3.2
3.3.3
3.3.4 (Little Chop)
3.3.5 (Fat Little Chop)

3.4 Twisting around faces and vertices
3.4.1 (Pocket Cube & Skewb)
3.4.2 (Super X)
3.4.3 (Pocket Cube & Master Skewb)
3.4.4 (Pocket Cube & Lattice Cube)
3.4.5 (Rubik's cube & Dino Cube)
3.4.6 (Rubik's Cube & Offset Skewb)
3.4.7 (Rubik's Cube & Offset Skewb 2)
3.4.8 (Rubik's Cube & Skewb)
3.4.9 (Rubik's Cube & Master Skewb)
3.4.10 (Pocket Cube & Fat Dino Cube)

3.5 Twisting around faces, vertices and edges
3.5.1
3.5.2
3.5.3

3.6 Maze Cubes
3.6.1 (2x2x2)
3.6.2 (3x3x3)
3.6.3 (4x4x4)
3.6.4 (5x5x5)

===============================================================

Octahedra

4.1 Twisting around faces
4.1.1 (Skewb Diamond)
4.1.2
4.1.3 (Dino Octa)

4.2 Twisting around vertices
4.2.1 (Trajber's Octohedron)

4.3 Twisting around edges
4.3.1
4.3.2
4.3.3
4.3.4
4.3.5

4.4 Twisting around faces and vertices
4.4.1

4.5 Twisting around faces and edges
4.5.1
4.5.2

4.6 Twisting around vertices and edges
4.6.1
4.6.2

4.7 Twisting around faces, vertices and edges
4.7.1
4.7.2

===============================================================

Tetrahedra


5.1 Twisting around vertices
5.1.1 (Tetraminx)
5.1.2 (Halpern-Meier Pyramid)
5.1.3 (Pyraminx)
5.1.4 (Master Pyraminx)

5.3 Twisting around edges
5.3.1 (Mastermorphix sans 4 corners restricted to half turns)
5.3.2 (Professormorphix sans 4 corners restricted to half turns)

5.4 Twisting around vertices and edges
5.4.1
5.4.2

===============================================================

Spherical

6.1 45-degree twist around three perpendicular axis
6.1.1 (6 color)
6.1.2 (8 color)
6.1.3 (12 color)

6.2 Shallow cuts
6.2.1 (6 color)
6.2.2 (8 color)
6.2.3 (12 color)

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

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Last edited by Noah on Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:00 pm 
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1.1.9

Image


1) Solve Centers.
2) Solve Edges.
3) Solve like Megaminx.


No parity.


Very similar to big cubes solution for 5x5s.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


Last edited by Noah on Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:19 pm 
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4.2.1

Image

Just trying to get the puzzles that already have solutions out of the way before moving onto the others that haven't.


Solve like a 3x3. Center orientation matters.

Search function will help you learn to super solve.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:37 pm 
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http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... exa_e1.htm

3000 turns, solved. This was the most tedious puzzle I've ever solved. (Dude..., I've done the higher dimensional 3x3x3x3 and 3x3x3x3x3.) My solution isn't very efficent I bet.

I did corners first, using the basic tricks. Then I put in the centers, which was easy. Then I placed the pieces next to the centers using a lot of commutators, mostly a 14-turn alg here. Then I placed the edges, which a bunch of 3-cycles, that are same as doing pyraminx crystal edges. I had a separate alg to flip two edges efficiently. Then I did the lttile triangular wing pieces. This took ages, as all I was doing was 3-cycling them using a rather lengthy 58-turn alg. Conjugating that ugliness with increasingly lengthy setup moves, was rather irritating. In the end I had to do two separate 2-cycles, which where on differnt orbitals. I did them in a similar fashion, each time barrowing a pieces of the same color and orbital to form a 3-cycle.

By that time I was doing this 58-turn alg with 5-7 setup moves!

Finally, this BEAST of a puzzle is conquered!


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:49 pm 
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You really became fanatic! :D
I'm happy too. The access counter of my site has literally exploded!

Cheers!

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
Win32 Executable(Download)
troubleshooting


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:01 pm 
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A lot of the puzzles need the "shift-click" ablity, they turn out to be 3-layer even though initally that wasn't the intent.

The UNDO is killing me!!! Could you put in a REDO as well. Also it's been lagging for me, maybe it's my comptuer, but when I do lots of turns without resetting, it lags more.

The 3-D rotation is very rough, sometimes it freaks out and I have to figure out the grip again. Usually I have to undo a bunch of turns till I get back to a point I recognize.

The UNDO stack automatically implements move-cancellation... this is BAD for many reasons and good for many reasons. There needs to be a compromize here. Say of having a button that creates "save points". Inserting a "null-turn" that doens't cancel with anyother move and is "idempotant".


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:12 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
A lot of the puzzles need the "shift-click" ablity, they turn out to be 3-layer even though initally that wasn't the intent.

The UNDO is killing me!!! Could you put in a REDO as well. Also it's been lagging for me, maybe it's my comptuer, but when I do lots of turns without resetting, it lags more.

The 3-D rotation is very rough, sometimes it freaks out and I have to figure out the grip again. Usually I have to undo a bunch of turns till I get back to a point I recognize.

The UNDO stack automatically implements move-cancellation... this is BAD for many reasons and good for many reasons. There needs to be a compromize here. Say of having a button that creates "save points". Inserting a "null-turn" that doens't cancel with anyother move and is "idempotant".
-Doug


I will take your suggestions into account.

Indeed JOGL is heavy for old computers. Maybe there's also a problem of JAVA's gabage collector. If you are using Windows, stand-alone version is more light-weight and it has many features the applet doesn't have.

Cheers!

_________________
Virtual Magic Polyhedra
Applet(Online)
Executable Jar Installer
Win32 Executable(Download)
troubleshooting


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:45 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/hexa_e1.htm

3000 turns, solved. This was the most tedious puzzle I've ever solved. (Dude..., I've done the higher dimensional 3x3x3x3 and 3x3x3x3x3.) My solution isn't very efficent I bet.

I did corners first, using the basic tricks. Then I put in the centers, which was easy. Then I placed the pieces next to the centers using a lot of commutators, mostly a 14-turn alg here. Then I placed the edges, which a bunch of 3-cycles, that are same as doing pyraminx crystal edges. I had a separate alg to flip two edges efficiently. Then I did the lttile triangular wing pieces. This took ages, as all I was doing was 3-cycling them using a rather lengthy 58-turn alg. Conjugating that ugliness with increasingly lengthy setup moves, was rather irritating. In the end I had to do two separate 2-cycles, which where on differnt orbitals. I did them in a similar fashion, each time barrowing a pieces of the same color and orbital to form a 3-cycle.

By that time I was doing this 58-turn alg with 5-7 setup moves!

Finally, this BEAST of a puzzle is conquered!


-Doug


Could you provide more details for this? I'd really like to solve this as well, not so we're even, just for the joy of puzzling. Do you think you could adapt this to the Bevel cube as well?


~Noah

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:54 pm 
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i believe 3.4.2 is the super-x.

_________________
http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/res ... 2007BOYL01

NAR: Master Magic
Average = 2.75
Single = 2.63


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:46 pm 
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Blackmetalcubist wrote:
i believe 3.4.2 is the super-x.
It is. If you look I already have it listed.


I've been working on a parity fix on that puzzle.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:53 pm 
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aha! im sorry! i must've missed it when i first read over the list.

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http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/res ... 2007BOYL01

NAR: Master Magic
Average = 2.75
Single = 2.63


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:30 pm 
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Noah wrote:
Blackmetalcubist wrote:
i believe 3.4.2 is the super-x.
It is. If you look I already have it listed.


I've been working on a parity fix on that puzzle.


What do you mean? How far are you on a solution? How are you solvign this? I didn't really encounter any parities. The small triangular wing pieces are one separate orbitals btw, that was really annoying until I realized it.

I have a pretty good list of algs for it. Tell me what you need!

If it makes you guys feel any better, I spent over 6 hours on this guy, not counting breaks. *yikes!*


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:27 am 
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I pair up the edges and I have found a way to flip 2 edges. I sometimes end up with 1 flipped edge.


Doug,

You are an excellent solver, please include as many solutions as you can! I'd love to have your contributions.

~Noah

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:28 am 
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ONE FLIPPED EDGE! You're kidding me. I never encoutnered such a thing. Could you post screen capures? I don't see how that could be possible.

Erm, maybe if you cycle the corners this parity would change? So like solve it into rotated color scheme. I don't know...

My biggest problem where thsoe 48 triangular pieces, they drove me crazy. I thought it was pretty easy to get to all corners and centers solve though.

I did the 4 pieces next to each center next, then the actual edges.

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:33 am 
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We seem to be talking about different puzzles. I'm talking about the Super X, not the Master Bevel cube, or whatever you call the puzzle you solved.

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Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
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25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:47 am 
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Okay I just tried that one too. I didn't encoutner parity. I think you encounter it if you solve into the flipped coor-scheme. It took me 338 turns just now. I solved 1 layer of the induced 2x2 using intuition. I then solved 4 pieces of each of the last layer corners, using simple commutators. These 4 pieces where the oens that don't have the last layer face color on them. Then I used some Sune pairs to twist corner groups so that I can setup into doing more commutators.

I got to the point where I had 2 adjacent corner groups solved on the last 2x2 layer, so 6 corner groups all together. All that was left was to '3-cycle' three of the pieces. This required a "Trick"... that I won't reveal at this time.

-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:08 pm 
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Actually, it doesn't matter if you solve it into the flipped color scheme. It is possible to achieve both color schemes with a regular dino cube, ergo this is a parity similar to the 4x4 flipped edge.


Right now I'm trying as many approaches as I can. I have solved it using the pair edges method, but that also can yield 1-12 flipped pieces, and I can't remember for the life of me how I flipped two edges.

As of now I've gotten very close by solving from 1 corner to the opposite corner (Basically how you would solve a dino.)


(edit) I've gotten to the point 4 times now where I need a 3 cycle. Thus far I've been doing everything intuitively, but I don't know what to do to achieve the 3 cycle.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:16 pm 
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3.4.2
Image

I did it.

Solve 3 adjacent (around a corner) edges.
Solve all but the three opposite edges using basic 2x2 knowledge and dino set up moves.

I'm not linking this in the first post because I can not accurately describe how I solved it this time.

Some how I did achieve the 3 cycle. I cannot recall how even. How sad.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:53 pm 
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Good! I understand the parity now. Within the Dino Group, there is no parity since it is generated by a move that performs two 3-cycles. However in the 2x2 group, a single turn performs three 4-cycles. This is a permutation parity changing move. Thus to fix the parity, you have to do a single 2x2 quarter-turn. Likewise, it's possible to fix the parity by performing any "PLL" that swaps two corner groups, and therefore consists of three 2-cycles (odd parity action).

Putting theory into practice, there is this COLL category called "U2". I commutate that with appropriate Dino cumbe moves to produced the desired, and highly sought after 3-piece-cycle.

As an after thought it would be possible to get to a 2x2-looking position where everyting is solved except for a single twisted corner. I think that would be nifty. Being in this case is NOT a pairty even.

Thanks for the info that this can be solved into the reverse color scheme. I hadn't thought about that bit and was interested in knowing. For the first time, in avoiding such an issue, I "cheated" and stared at a corner really hard before hitting scramble a bunch of times (10 turns isn't enough for many puzzles). I don't know the plus-yellow scheme very well, other than it is "plus/minus yellow" as I use something different on my main cube. I also try not to apply color-scheme knowledge on these polyehedra and instead deduce it from the multi-sticker pieces.

The first thing I did when solving was to do that one corner :).

Anyhow. What's next? Perhaps it's time for you to take a crack at 3.3.2. I have solved teh Helicopter cube (3.3.1) as well. The Little Chop (3.3.4) I made some attempts on but couldn't solve. Oh, and I'm just not going to count the Maze cubes... those present a different (and I would consider un-related) type of challenge. And 6.1.1 is *EVIL*. I made the mistake of being like: "oh that's just a bloated-looking 2x2". Boy was I wrong...


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Very nice point with that parity and the types of turns more of less turning the parity on and off (or at least that's how I got it)

As for the single corner being turned, it can be done in 8 moves. (very similar on how you could rotate a center piece on a pyraminx.

I will use standard Rubik's notation for the 2x2 aspect, and when I have 3 letters pertaining to a corner, it is referring to the dino aspect.

[R' UFL' R UFL']X2

That algorithm can be altered so many ways to turn any corner you need.

Could you help write a solution to the Helicopter/Bevel cube? I can only solve the corners. (By trial and error)

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:46 pm 
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I don't see how solving the corners would be any different from doing it on other "edge-turning" polyhedra. Did you go though and do all/most of the 4-sided edge-turning ones yet? Doing those first helped me.

Each turn swaps two corners... so it should be very strightforward to at least solve the CP. With a bit of intuition, you get most of the CO as well. twisting corners can be achieved by some sort of conjugation of the swapping like abstractly: F2 R2 L2 B2 R2 L2 F2.

Then this alg helps with getting most of the center pieces: (R2 D2)^3. Using this alone, allowed me to solve all the centers very fast.

The 3.3.2 is like a Master-version of this. A helicopter cube on crack! It's so gross... I might be trying the 3.3.3 next, it seems like it would be no harder than the 3.3.2, slightly more pieces though and some different problems to encoutner I'm sure.

(Gosh... I'm starting to want real notation for this stuff. But I think you can figure out what I mean.)


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:45 pm 
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Thanks. On the Helicopter cube, I can get all but 4 centers. Once I'm better with set up moves I could finish it.


As for my notation, I was rotating the Upper Front Left corner.



Do R', Rotate the Up Front Left corner counter clockwise (UFL'), then do R, and rotate the same corner counter clockwise. Doing this twice twists the corner very easy.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:52 pm 
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So moving forward...

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... exa_e2.htm is actually a 3-layer puzzle and I want to have shift-click-ablity.

I am in the middle of solving it. I have all the centers, corners, and edges solved. I have about half the 48 wing-ish pieces left to go, and then I'll do the xcenter-ish pieces.

Anyone care to beat me to solving this guy?


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:06 am 
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http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... exa_e2.htm

SOLVED!

After solving the 'cage and centers' on this guy, it wasn't too hard to finish. It took about 18 hours off and on for me, and 2614 turns. It was quite difficult to find the right setup moves near the end of doing xcenters.

Anybody solve this one yet? It's a pretty fun one to do I think.

-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:31 am 
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Congrats Doug!

I feel like a bad puzzler, I havn't even done any good ones yet. I'm still not fully used to the applet.
It also looks like the possibility of it wokring with my main computer are low, so I have to use my parents computer, which is nowhere near as good!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:58 am 
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Doug: I just don't have a very good grasp on Helicopter puzzles. I'm envious of you.

Joey: It's actually really easy to use the controls. To me at least. Hold you Rubik's cube and do R'. You find yourself most likely using your left finger. So a left click is counter clockwise. So a right click moves it clockwise. It feels really natural for me.

Gelatinbrain: Would it be possible to have a person have to enter their name before starting an applet, then once solved, it have the person's name who solved it, (and possibly their time and moves)? Then again, that also allows people to scramble it 5 moves and solve it in a very quick amount of time.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:27 pm 
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About that idea of having people enter their name: if you do that, you should also set the scramble length to some large default (I usually use 1000 moves or so, but less is still OK as long as you can't see the solution). I think that would lead to a very interesting situation!

Oh, by the way, I've been practicing the Helicopter Cube (3.3.1) a little, and my best time is under 5 minutes, I think...

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qqwref wrote:
About that idea of having people enter their name: if you do that, you should also set the scramble length to some large default (I usually use 1000 moves or so, but less is still OK as long as you can't see the solution). I think that would lead to a very interesting situation!

Oh, by the way, I've been practicing the Helicopter Cube (3.3.1) a little, and my best time is under 5 minutes, I think...
I just use 100. It seems to fully scramble any puzzle thoroughly.

Impressive! I'm still around 20 minutes. I don't really try speed too much on these puzzles.


I really want to try the Helicopter Cube when it is jumblable (sp).

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:40 pm 
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in what order do you solve the pieces on the helicopter-cube? :O i got all the centers right but had no idea how to fix the corners :D


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I just solved this guy: http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... exa_e4.htm

However, the time didn't stop. This is an error in the applet I believe. Does the author want to fix this?

Anyhow I thought it was a fun puzzle. I did corners first, then centers, then the big triangular pieces, and then the thin ones. It was pretty strightforward application of what I used on other edge-turning cubes. And easier than the last two I did of that group. I still haven't figured out the Litttle Chop though.


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:47 pm 
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As far as the Helicopter Cube, I do all the corners first (solving positions and then fixing the orientation with commutators like FR (UR UB UL UF) FR DR FR (UF UL UB UR) FR DR), and then the 'centers' (mostly using (UR FR UF FR)*2). By the way, this notation here is just one I'm using for edge-turning stuff, where each turn is just the edge it would be on a 3x3x3.

By the way, I'm having trouble solving the +center pieces (the thin long ones) on http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/hexa_e4.htm - can someone help me out?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:24 pm 
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After taking a couple days off, I can't for the life of me solve the super x anymore. I was trying to solve 3.4.5, and couldn't get the super x aspect of it. Even going back to the super x, I can't solve it. I always come to a point where I don't know how to commute it.


Anyways, the 3.4.5 solution.


Solve corners (Super x)
Solve edges (beware of permution parity, same as void cube)
Solve centers by turning a corner (dino move) then rotating a center to place the piece in (3x3 algorithms)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:50 pm 
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Hi :)

I've retrograded my JAVA compiler and uploaded the recompiled applet.
There was a compatibility problem with Macintosh JAVA runtime.
I think it's now OK for mac users too.


Thank for so many comments and ideas.
Any new ideas are welcome.
Unfortunately I don't have much time to work on this.
I will do little by little.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:43 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
I think it's now OK for mac users too.

Unfortuneatly, it still does not work with my computer.
I have tried camino,safari and firefox, and it still crashes all of them. But since you have retrograded, it loads up until the point where the puzzle would be shown, but then crashes. Whereas before it would just crash as soon as I opened the page.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:25 pm 
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joey wrote:
Unfortuneatly, it still does not work with my computer.
I have tried camino,safari and firefox, and it still crashes all of them. But since you have retrograded, it loads up until the point where the puzzle would be shown, but then crashes. Whereas before it would just crash as soon as I opened the page.


Try this and let me know what you see on JAVA console.
Is there still the same message java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: jzzz/CMainApplet (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0) or something else?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:15 pm 
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I have noticed soem minor improvements to the applets, for instance having the defualt scramble length be 500. And a bunch of stuff I can't quite put my thumb on...

Anyhow, waht I wanted to post on is: http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... eca_e1.htm

It's the first of the edge-turning 12-sided guys (1.4.1).

I am int he middle of solving it. I did edges and centers together. Near the end of that step, centers first then edges. After that there are 60 triangular pieces left. I have about 25 to go before I'm done. I'm however at 1100 turns already...

So anyone solve this one yet? Anyone care to give it a try?

-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:51 pm 
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http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... eca_e1.htm

SOLVED!

Took me 1796 turns.

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:04 pm 
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Supposedly the Pentultimate is just a build up of the Pyraminx Crystal.

Can anyone elaborate?

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Noah wrote:
Supposedly the Pentultimate is just a build up of the Pyraminx Crystal.

Can anyone elaborate?


I thought the Pentultimate was deep-cut and the crystal isn't?

the.drizzle did say that the Pentultimate can be _built_ from a crystal mechanism (I don't know how), but solving-wise I think they're pretty different.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:23 pm 
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For me, the puzzles are very different. This Pentultimate is quite hard I've found. I did get as far as getting the correct corner permutation and solving all the centers. I just have to twist those corners now! It's driving me crazy...

-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:18 am 
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Okay... Pentultimate, SOLVED! (818 turns)

Doing a three corner twist was not for the faint of heart. They have to be transformed into 2 CW and 2 CCW corner twists on the same orbital to deal with the modulo5-ness of this guy.

I solved centers first. Then I permuted the corners using a two 2-cycle akin to the one used in 3x3 BLD. This was easily commuted with a single turn to allow for a bunch of fairly arbitrary 3-corner cycles. I totally ignored Orientations till the end. I suppose I could have reduced turns more if I would have concnetrated on that during the swaps.

It took me a while to figure out a bunch of 4-corner twists. Luckily that was able to get me down to three without actually carefully commuting them.

-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:00 am 
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you guys are sick :P i just get lost when turning those weird-cut puzzles :P


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:20 am 
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pHeTe wrote:
you guys are sick :P i just get lost when turning those weird-cut puzzles :P
No, Doug is sick.

I'm just a mediocre puzzle solver. Doug is amazing. There's no way I can figure some of these out.

Did you read earlier? A 58 move algorithm? With lots of set up moves? Dang.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:16 am 
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On the normal 3x3, turns are of order 4. On these freakish edge-turning thingies they are of order 2! Thus algs are inherently lengthier to perserve more pieces. I wish I could prove this mathematically.

Say you are looking at a cube with UFR corner closest to you, U on top, F on left, R on right side of screen, and we designate the edge-turns using the edge names.

Anyhow, for edge turning things, there is a simple 12 turn thing of the form (UF UR)^6. You can commutate this with a single BR. This gives (UF UR)^6 BR (UF UR)^6 BR. This is a basic 26 turn alg that is immensely helpful for solving this class of polyhedra. I had to commutate with a three turn thing for one of the puzzles. I forget which one, but I had to use (FR UR FR). Commutating something that is of length 26 with a length 3 and you get an ugly 58 turn alg. This was all I did for my three-triangular-piece cycles. I used the F<->R mirror of this alg too.

-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:48 am 
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I was giving you a compliment, but thanks for the additional info. It was helpful. (That sounded sarcastic, but it wasn't.)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:26 pm 
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aha :) gonna try some more then ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:31 pm 
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Does this help?

(UF RB UF RB) (UB RF UB) (RB UF RB UF) (UB RF UB)


By the way, I found a fast way to do the 3x3x3 + Dino Cube hybrid (3.4.5 on the website). It goes like this:
1. Solve centers. You shouldn't need any commutators for this. It's like 4x4x4 centers.
2. Solve edges. Just like a 3x3x3.
3. Solve corners. This is done like a Super-X, but you should only use commutators like L UFR L' UFR'. I pretty much do this layer-by-layer: the corners on D first, then the rest of the first layer, and then the last layer corners in whatever order is easiest.

The interesting thing here is that the same quarter face turn that causes the parity in the corners also affects the parity in the edges. What this means is that if you have solved the edges parity (presumably by solving the edges, which is fast), you have also solved the corners parity, and so you are guaranteed to be able to finish all the corners with simple 3-cycles.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Whow! that's a much shorter alg than then one I was using. DOH! Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:14 am 
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Very nice solution! (To the 3x3 Dino)


I still run into this error:

Everything solved but 2 pieces

State 1) On 1 corner.
State 2) On adjacent corners, in the same relative position to the D face.


Any solution to this?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:03 am 
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I think I've found a 48 move algorithm on the Fat Helicopter Cube that swaps only 2 thin center pieces.

[FR (UF UR)x3 ]x6

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