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 Post subject: Easiest mod : Center bandaged 4x4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:24 pm 
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I made an easiest mod 4x4.
This cube is only bandaged neighbor center pair.
And I made this cube from Eastsheen's 4x4, then I only fill
the center's gaps and sand, polish to finish.

... But this cube is a little difficult than normally 4x4. ;)


Attachments:
File comment: Solved image
center_bandaged_1.jpg
center_bandaged_1.jpg [ 13.51 KiB | Viewed 4548 times ]
File comment: Rotate middle cross section
center_bandaged_2.jpg
center_bandaged_2.jpg [ 14.86 KiB | Viewed 4544 times ]
File comment: Scrambled image
center_bandaged_3.jpg
center_bandaged_3.jpg [ 14.93 KiB | Viewed 4542 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:27 pm 
you should definitly email meffert about that, that seems right up his alley


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:10 am 
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I don't care how easy that looks, I still really like it!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:56 am 
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"Easy" to build, but difficult to solve.

That looks very difficult to solve.

Very, very difficult. Hard. Intractable.

48 cubies are affected by this mod. Only 8 cubies are unaffected.

Hidetoshi has devised an elegantly simple mod that makes the 4x4x4 considerably more difficult. The modification is easy, the solution is hard.

Most Excellent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:32 am 
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Really cute mod!
Well done Hidetoshi! I love it!
Vadim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:19 am 
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I've got a method for solving it, but I won't spoil it to you guys. I'm pretty sure parities are still evident.

Great mod, anyways!

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[02:25] <fusion> does look ahead on a 3x3 make someone faster?
[02:25] <Swordsman_Kirby> Yes.
[02:25] <fusion> maybe i should try that


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:45 am 
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Presumed the gluings on the yellow, blue and orange side match the onse shown in the first picture:
This is the second bandaged 4x4x4 of just two possible (and non trivial!) variants, which have exact 2 symmetries.

Hidetoshi: Was that intention?
Anyways: Well done.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:02 pm 
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I'm fairly sure I could solve it using a modified version of the bigcubes solution. I'd only run into a problem and the parities.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:35 pm 
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Cage wouldn't be any harder ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Pembox wrote:
Cage wouldn't be any harder ;)


Indeed! :lol:

I have a method for single-edge parities that doesn't use any face quarter-turns. It preserves inner-slice alignment, so it would work on this puzzle. Thanks for making me think about it!

I've just got to build one of these! 8-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:10 pm 
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you could still use:

Code:
r U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' U2 l U2 r2


to fix the parity.


(People should use the code tag more often for algs.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:58 am 
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Parity fixes aren't hard, but I can't think of a way to directly solve OLL parity.

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[02:25] <fusion> does look ahead on a 3x3 make someone faster?
[02:25] <Swordsman_Kirby> Yes.
[02:25] <fusion> maybe i should try that


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:35 am 
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Doesn't exist!

But you can still do
Code:
r2 B2 U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' B2 r2

To fix it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:37 pm 
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Brilliant idea Hidetoshi-san! :)

I guess concept this could be implemented on a 5x5x5 cube too!

;)


Pantazis

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:15 am 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Presumed the gluings on the yellow, blue and orange side match the onse shown in the first picture:
This is the second bandaged 4x4x4 of just two possible (and non trivial!) variants, which have exact 2 symmetries.

Hidetoshi: Was that intention?


Of course !
... It's my mistake. :wink:

Following is the opposite side's photo, and removed centers photo.


Attachments:
File comment: Opposite side (Japanese color scheme)
center_bandaged_4.jpg
center_bandaged_4.jpg [ 16.53 KiB | Viewed 4213 times ]
File comment: Removed fixed center caps
center_bandaged_5.jpg
center_bandaged_5.jpg [ 13.94 KiB | Viewed 4216 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:17 am 
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Ahh...
...finally! Somebody else interested in symmetries on a 4x4x4.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:07 am 
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Pembo wrote:
you could still use:

Code:
r U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' U2 l U2 r2


to fix the parity.


(People should use the code tag more often for algs.)


A OLL parity fix would be:
Code:
r2 U2 r2 U2 r2 (F2 (u'd) b2 (ud'))*2 (13-btm) or
r2 U2 r2 U2 r2 (F2 E b2 E')*2

Turn (u'd) and (ud') as block turns not breaking the bandaging ;-)

(The center stripes on U and D should point from F to B and the others from U to D)

-Per

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:18 pm 
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That's the PLL parity Per.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Parities arn't a problem, but sometimes there's 3-cycles that make you have to take 'the long way around' because of the bandaged centres.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:45 am 
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Pembo wrote:
That's the PLL parity Per.


Yes i know. Yeeesshhh!! Anyway the sequence was also slightly wrong but can be fixed to work properly (challenge). I devised it just off the top of my head with no cube, while at work.

And yes, the 3-cycles will become quite awkward for cage method. For the normal reduction aproach pairing up edges will be no problem at all, at least if pairing up in the most basic way. Centers first would also be the best way for the centers. So for this bandaged cube i'd say cage is much worse than the reduction method :roll:

-Per

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:05 am 
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I once experimented with this method:

1x3x4 block on L and R.
Get to -subgroup.
Solve.

Got some decent times with regular 4x4x4, and I think this would be quite a good way to solve this bandaged 4x4x4 since the second step is almost trivial.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:00 pm 
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Swordsman Kirby wrote:
I've got a method for solving it, but I won't spoil it to you guys. I'm pretty sure parities are still evident.

Great mod, anyways!


**WARNING!! SPOILER BELOW...**
















The normal reduction method (ce3) is the easy way to go. Juts minor modification needed to allow for easy slide/backslide during edge-pairing :wink: Parity fix(es) for last step have already been discussed.

I tried a cage-solve and it was HELL to make the required edge 3-cycle. In fact i solved all edges in a slightly different fashion to minimise the ugly setup scenarios :)

-Per

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Does anybody else have an urge to bandage a 4x4x4 this way and solve it BLD? :D (we need a blindfolded smiley...)
--EDIT: Image Can anyone make a better one?--
r2 still works if the M-slice centers are aligned (hardest part of memo: pre-turns?), and centers wouldn't be hard...

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Last edited by Lucas Garron on Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Lucas Garron wrote:
Does anybody else have an urge to bandage a 4x4x4 this way and solve it BLD? :D (we need a blindfolded smiley...)
r2 still works if the M-slice centers are aligned (hardest part of memo: pre-turns?), and centers wouldn't be hard...


Well, I can't actually solve a 4x4 BLD, but I wonder if this would be easier... Far fewer centers to think of!

I'll see when my bandaged 4x4 arrives :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 am 
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BLD shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Solve centres allowing for r2 turns, then restrict the algs you use to ones that you know are bandaged-centre friendly. r2, and the helper buffer method should not present any problems.

The only thing I can't think of how to do now is solve the centres, but it's just because I don't know any algs to swap them around.

Per?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:33 am 
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[u' M u, L2]

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