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 Post subject: Katsuhiko Okamoto’s void cube
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:09 pm 
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I do not know if others have seen Katsuhiko Okamoto’s new cube. He has a new masterpiece. It is posted on his website.
http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/voidcube.html

It is pretty wild. :shock: I have to think about how the mechanism works. Only way I can see is to use the internal rails slots that others have discussed. Others thoughts?


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 pm 
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WOW.

besides rail, i suppose magnets could work


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:38 pm 
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Now that is a *real* keychain cube!!!!
Brilliant design!

:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:46 pm 
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:shock:

I have no clue how that could be held together besides with magnets.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Thats crazy, it has to be magnets locked in somehow! *shrugs* I don't really care for the mechanism, its looks cool!

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Wow! This is absolutely amazing! Very beautiful.

...

After studying the pictures for a while, I think I know how this one works. But I probably don't :-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:16 pm 
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Brilliant!


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:18 pm 
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Amazing! Wish I had one of those...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:55 pm 
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Katsuhiko doesn't use magnets, that would be too easy. He is a skilled machinist and cuts each piece from solid plastic.

There are some visual clues as to how it works, but the details are harder to guess. I have never seen one of his puzzles disassembled, so I don't know his design style.


Also, I like the way he posts the puzzle on his website and lets some one else "find" it and post it here. (even though he is a member and I saw that he was online today...)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Cage method would be useful here ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:21 pm 
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Looking at it, I can only think of slots as Lee said.

Maybe Geogres will be able to confirm, when his arrives :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:24 pm 
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This looks very cool. Something I would be interesting in learning more about... it probably uses a rail... and magnets.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Fantastic!
The whole new dimension: centerless cubes! :shock:
Vadim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:34 pm 
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Gives new meaning to a black hole cube.

Very nice. Can you show a video of it in action? I am sure the creator will be posting soon.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:38 pm 
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Pembo wrote:
Cage method would be useful here ;)

cage works on normal 3x3x3 too :wink:

-Per

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:52 pm 
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It's called a joke Per ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:18 pm 
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I found link that reminds me of this cube.

viewtopic.php?t=6187&highlight=


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:32 pm 
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This cube would be possibly harder to solve due to the lack of center colors.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:34 pm 
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A parity is possible! I occasinaly take the center caps of my DIY and solve it, but I havn't found a quick way to fix the parity.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:37 pm 
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joey wrote:
A parity is possible! I occasinaly take the center caps of my DIY and solve it, but I havn't found a quick way to fix the parity.

Me too, especially when i'm adjusting the tension.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:42 pm 
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It's beautiful. (As always!)

My question is this: when you turn a middle layer, how do you make sure that the four pieces move as a unit and not individually?

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:49 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
It's beautiful. (As always!)

My question is this: when you turn a middle layer, how do you make sure that the four pieces move as a unit and not individually?


The pictures seem to indicate that the middle layers do turn as a unit, which would eliminate magnets. It could be done similarly to the groove system though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:55 pm 
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gamemeister27 wrote:
This cube would be possibly harder to solve due to the lack of center colors.

Not really.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Pembo wrote:
gamemeister27 wrote:
This cube would be possibly harder to solve due to the lack of center colors.

Not really.

do you know of a way to define the center colors? I have been shocked before when i don't have the caps on to run into the parody.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Parody? is that a joke Parity? :P

What's the parity? Must be 2 edges that need to swapped right?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:23 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
My question is this: when you turn a middle layer, how do you make sure that the four pieces move as a unit and not individually?


I think that Katsuhiko Okamoto indeed made this cube similar to the design that wwwmwww proposed (see viewtopic.php?p=47425#47425).

I guess the four pieces move as a unit because, while there are a few pieces missing, there is something in the tracks there. Am I making sense?

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Wow, this is amazing. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:33 pm 
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The parity would exist because you could get the wrong color scheme when you are solving it, resulting in a parity.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:36 pm 
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gamemeister27 wrote:
The parity would exist because you could get the wrong color scheme when you are solving it, resulting in a parity.


I don't think that would be a problem. It's just like solving with no center piece stickers. The way that the stickers are arranged will allow you to know which piece goes where.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:54 pm 
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like this...

edit: oh god, sorry i uploaded the original file, let me resize that...


Attachments:
void cube parity.JPG
void cube parity.JPG [ 12.02 KiB | Viewed 18721 times ]


Last edited by Smapla on Thu May 10, 2007 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:22 pm 
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That is an impressive piece of machining and design.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:06 pm 
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Very impressive as always.

And yes, it would be made with a groove/rail system that uses the inner edges of cubes with interlocking rails machined in such a way that you can't otherwise see the pieces moving. Very clever but not something I'd recommend for someone without a machine shop behind them. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:16 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Very impressive as always.

And yes, it would be made with a groove/rail system that uses the inner edges of cubes with interlocking rails machined in such a way that you can't otherwise see the pieces moving. Very clever but not something I'd recommend for someone without a machine shop behind them. :)


Why couldn't it be an ingenous variant on the conventional 6-armed spider?

It would be easiest to understand using a Mefferts assembly cube spider because it has no screws and no moving parts. You could take the center caps off and drill a small axial hole through the spider to the other side. Obviously these would be tiny holes, so it's obviously not Okamoto's solution yet, but you could certainly look through each hole to the other side of the cube.

Now imagine you could somehow expand the core, holes and all, until the openings were large and the spider was concealed (overlapped) under the cubie faces.

It wouldn't be easy and might not have anything to do with Okamoto's method, but I've verified the geometry is schematically feasible. But that just means there is adequate volume and area in the outer slices to hold such a hollow-core spider and both inner and outer grooves for the feet to slide in. A genuis would still have to figure out how to do it!

So what's my point? I just don't want to rule out a spider-like mechanism unless Okamoto denies it or other evidence rules it out.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:26 pm 
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The rail mechanism is truly genius, I think my shop teacher could make it, he is crazy good. (he used to help design rollar coaters for univeral studios!)

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:34 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Very clever but not something I'd recommend for someone without a machine shop behind them. :)


Thats why I would really like to buy one!! :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:33 am 
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Smapla wrote:
edit: oh god, sorry i uploaded the original file, let me resize that...


Please add "edit2: oh god, sorry i uploaded the huge png file, let me change that to the much smaller jpg...". Should be about 14KB, not 300.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:08 am 
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Incredible mechanism... If only Mr. Okamoto's creations could be mass-produced...


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:17 am 
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I guess that the same idea could also be applied to megaminx?


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Frankly, I don't believe it was made with a groove/rails mechanism. That's looks too complicated even for someone with a machine shop. I'd rather think that the cube has a hollow six-armed spider as it's been mentioned in this thread already. I also think that's how it's made considering the tendency of Mr.Okamoto to use miniature cores and build them up.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:42 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Frankly, I don't believe it was made with a groove/rails mechanism. That's looks too complicated even for someone with a machine shop. I'd rather think that the cube has a hollow six-armed spider as it's been mentioned in this thread already. I also think that's how it's made considering the tendency of Mr.Okamoto to use miniature cores and build them up.
Anybody have pictures of an assembly cube spider?


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Very nice

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:06 pm 
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JIMBOB wrote:
Nice.


Nice?

Georges wrote:
Very nice


Very nice?


It's bloody amazing!

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:09 pm 
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I concur. Quite mind blowingly impressive for using a standard rubik's cube design. This is what makes it so great. Much like a bump cube. This cube takes a well recognized iconic puzzle idea and gives it immortal status.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Thomas wrote:
JIMBOB wrote:
Nice.


Nice?

Georges wrote:
Very nice


Very nice?


It's bloody amazing!

Thomas


It is unbelievable. I can't give enough credit to Katsuhiko.
It's just that sometimes I'm going bonkers 8-)

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Last edited by Georges on Wed May 09, 2007 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:27 pm 
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Georges wrote:
It is unbelievable. I can't give enough credit to Okamoto.


Of course I know you do Georges. After all, you own some of his puzzles.

Thomas

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Once again, great work. I immediately thought of this thread when I saw the puzzle: http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3836. From the photos it looks like Okamoto used a design very similar to this to make his void cube.

-Bill

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:23 pm 
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The two circular lines visible on the inside surface of each edge cubie, are those rails (so the part between them belongs to the edge cubie) or is there a ring (like a flat donut) on the bottom of each outer layer (so the part does not belong to the edge cubie which just slides on it)?


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:43 am 
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Joe Schmoe wrote:
Aleksey wrote:
Frankly, I don't believe it was made with a groove/rails mechanism. That's looks too complicated even for someone with a machine shop. I'd rather think that the cube has a hollow six-armed spider as it's been mentioned in this thread already. I also think that's how it's made considering the tendency of Mr.Okamoto to use miniature cores and build them up.
Anybody have pictures of an assembly cube spider?


Here are pictures of two assembly cubes.

The first shows the one-piece spider (clear pink plastic) exposed within a partly disassembled cube. The top arm is broken. The arm at right shows how the spider pokes through a center cubie. The one at left has a cap installed to hide the spider (notice the distinctive "keyhole" for disassembly).

The second picture is an intact disassembly cube. I took two center caps off and shined a light through the spider. I don't know if it proves anything, but it's a dramatic effect!

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:41 am 
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Hi :)

What is the problem with middle slice turns? It's just 2 outer slice turns and a cube rotation. I don't see the problem.

The parity is trivial to fix. Do any middle slice turn M, E or S and then do an edge 3-cycle on that layer. Voila >> edge swap on that layer!!

I would like a super-version of this hollow cube :wink:

-Per

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