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 Post subject: New puzzle ideaPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:52 am

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 1999 3:02 am
Here's a challenge for all of you mould makers out there, something which I'll call a "Dinominx". Start off with a standard dodecahedron (eg. Megaminx) and make it a 20 axis puzzle instead, based on the puzzles corners instead of the faces. Each slice will have a corner of the puzzle in the centre, and bounded by its adjacent corners, like the Dino Cube. As for the internal mechanism and shape of the pieces, it would probably be easily adaptable from Alexander's Star. I'd love to try to make this myself, but before I start experimenting with something of this complexity, I think I should try something a bit more basic, say, a 1x1x1. So, would anyone here care to take on the challenge? L8r.

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 Post subject: Nice ideaPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:25 am

Joined: Sun May 27, 2001 7:03 pm
If the dino cube and the skewb are related, then so too would the dinominx and the pentultimate...

btw i like the name. we should make a twisty catalpogue of puzzles which dont exist but have cool names...

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 Post subject: re: Nice ideaPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:33 am

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 1999 3:02 am
Thanks! I just came up with the idea about a minute before posting the message. While the relationship between Dino Cube and Skewb would be the same as between dinominx and Pentultimate, I'm not so sure that it would be possible to physically contruct a Pentultimate, despite its apparent simplicity. The reason why the Skewb works so well is because the centres are even sided. The tabs holding the squares in are longer on one side than the other, and the "long" side tucks quite neatly into the gap left by the "short" side. It's possible to guarantee that such an arrangement is maintained at all times because the sides alternate long, short, long, short. With odd numbered sides, such an arrangement isn't possible. The only way I can see it being made would be with a Sebesteny style system with a crapload of grooves, which would create its own problems (eg. would all the pieces be able to stay in their proper tracks, or would they attempt to "jump ship", or into the other pieces tracks? Given how fine the "islands" would have to be made, would they even be able to support the weight of the pieces, or would they snap like a twig? etc). I'm sure it's possible to make somehow, but I've yet to come up with a design that would work, after thinking about it off and on (admittedly, mostly off) for the past 2 years or so. L8r.

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 Post subject: dinominxPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:09 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
I had a similar idea a while ago. See my ideas page:
http://www.org2.com/jaap/puzzles/ideas.htm
which has this little picture:

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 Post subject: Star of DavidPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:52 pm

Joined: Sun May 27, 2001 7:03 pm
You made a reference to mefferts selling the stallar octangular as a 'star of david'. is this in the past? or is it one of the mysterious new puzzles?

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 Post subject: PentUltimatePosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:57 pm

Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 2:32 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: PentUltimate

Has anyone tried the method of just having a large central steel sphere and all of the outer pieces attached via magnets? I presume the pieces would tend to "shear" off the puzzle rather than slide smoothly. I even found a supplies of such spheres: http://www.jgbraun.com/balls.html

As far as grooves: considering only the large faces for the moment, do you need more than 6 grooves criss-crossing a central core? If one face is fixed to the central mechanism, there are only 6 possible turns - a rotation around the face opposite the fixed face (1) plus a rotation around any of the faces adjacent to that one (5). Is that too many to be practical?

That leaves the problem of the corners. They are pesky since they slide past other edges as the puzzle turns (and face centers slide past other face centers) so they can't have trivial tongues/grooves, and as Tim says they can't be oriented (like the Skewb or 15-Puzzle).

I was pondering having flexible tongues with grooves above/below but thin (or rounded?) edges - a pair of corners with such grooves/tongues could slide past each other (after an initial bump) but still be held in place by the always-adjacent faces which would just have grooves.

Is that making any sense? If not, I can draw a picture. What would the cuts on the core look like?

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 Post subject: magnetsPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:14 pm
Theree seems to be a stigma about magnets here, probably becuase we all think about seting down a puzzle on a computer and killing it, on the other hand there are some situations where a tradional system would have to be complex to the point of (near) imposibility, for this reason it probably would be a good idea for someone to look into magnets.

Unfortunately there are so many diffrent things that it would be good to look into that most probably won't get done.

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 Post subject: MagnetsPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:42 am

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:36 am
Location: Washington D.C.
I think that part of the appeal of twisty puzzles is that they are mechanical devices that move in apparently impossible or paridoxial ways. But I agree that a simple mechanism that could be used for many different complex designs would be great. The mechanism is hidden anyway. It would have to be strong enough to not come apart eaisly.

This is my idea for a universal mechanism.

Most puzzles can be made in various shapes. The way space is cut up is the real design. Most puzzles could be made as spheres. (or have spheres at the center) Image a central metal ball with the cut magnetic pieces moving over the ball like sliding blocks. There would be no problem with magnets repelling other magnets in certain positions because they would all be holding onto the ball. They could be equiped with small non magnetic balls that would act like wheels or ball bearings to hold the pieces just above the surface of the metal ball. That would make it turn smoothly.

Perhaps refrigeratior magnets could be softened up and wraped around a sphere to make a poor mans puzzle or for prototyping.

Walt Smith

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 Post subject: Nice idea, what about this?Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:07 am
I've also thought about that, but when the expolreing polyhedra post came up i realized that a dinominx doesn't use the puzzle's full potential, i think that a Dodecahedron-Small Triambic Icosahedron Compound would be a more complete varitation of this puzzle, if you don't know what that is, don't worry i wouldn't either just go here:
http://polyhedra.wolfram.com/platonic/compounds/DodecahedronSTI.html

the puzzle move like an alexanders star on 32 seperate axies, the mechanism would probably be almost entirely the same as a dinominx on the parts where the two overlap, and there would really be all that much more to do with it, just add the new tips (12) and pieces (60). I think that it would have 134 pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Star of DavidPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:52 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
I don't remember where exactly I picked up that name a year or two ago, but I am fairly sure that Meffert coined it and was considering producing it. I'm not sure what its status is now.
(FYI: Star of David refers to a stella octangula shape with a 2x2x2 cube mechanism. It can be made by combining all the corners of two pyramorphixes.)

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 Post subject: Good ideaPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 3:42 am
I think its a good idea. Actauly i've always found it odd that more puzzles aren't made as spheres (on the outside), they all could be and whenever i have puzzles in public people seem to be facinated by the rubik's sphere more than anything else.

I'll be the first to say that the mechanism is one of the best parts of a puzzle the first two things i do when i get one is solve it and take it apart to see how it works, but it would also be nice to have some thing, like the magnetic ball, that would work for things that just aren't possible, or maybe just not plausible, with the usual system.

I think that you should try this idea if you get the chance. Good luck if you do try it.

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 Post subject: Wierd shapePosted: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:38 am

Joined: Sun May 27, 2001 7:03 pm
The tips which have 5 pieces would turn just like an alexanders star, but the tips which have 6 pieces you could only do double twists right? (due to the different size of the pieces)

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 Post subject: WOWPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:58 am

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 8:27 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA
WOW. Build a bunch of these, okay?

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 Post subject: YupPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:38 am
Thats right, the tips with the 6 pieces would move exactly the same as the coners on the Dinominx, in this case a double twist, the other ones would move just like the alexanders star

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 Post subject: I'll tryPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:58 am
But i'm begaing to feel like I'll never make a single puzzle in this life, on the brighter side I think I finaly figured out what was going wrong with the mold.
However there is still alot to do, and alot of skills to get before I can make anything, on the other hand there are other people around here who have the already have the skills and this shouldn't be too hard so maybe one of them should make it.

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