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 Post subject: The Magic Olympic Challenge (full set)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:25 pm 
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After doing the Magic Maze, I decided to go one step further.

Here I present you the Magic Olympic Challenge, which, consists of three (maze themed) magics with 7, 9, and 10 tiles!!!

For a better description and more pictures, please go here:

http://www.kastellorizo.org/puzzles/cre ... llenge.htm


BRONZE CHALLENGE (7 tiles)
Image

SILVER CHALLENGE (9 tiles)
Image

GOLDEN CHALLENGE (10 tiles)
Image


It was a titanic effort, so I won't be making any more magics for a while. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:28 pm 
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As I told you peter:

That is a very nice work! You have though a lot on this proyect and you get now the prize for it.

Very very very cute!

I like them!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:18 pm 
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very interesting. they look crazy hard


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:16 am 
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David and Adam, thank you for the nice comments! :)



In the past, everyone has been making magics which have 4xn tiles (i.e. a multiple of four).

After searching a bit, only Juozas (six, seven and ten tiles) and Puzzlemaster42 (six and ten tiles) created such custom ones in the past.

The six and ten tile magics, they are simply closed loops as they have an even number of tiles.
But when combining two magics (i.e. creating two connected closed loops, instead of one), extra care is needed, otherwise a wrong placed string would block most of the puzzle's movements and will make it unusable. I believe that is the reason why no one (except the seven-tile from Juozas) seriously tried to create an odd number of tiles. The seven tile is a very neat variation and it requires connecting the corners of two four tile magics.

Regarding the nine-tile magic that I made (silver challenge), I have never seen anyone even mentioning it before. And it is one of the most tricky magics (regarding shape variations) I ever held in my hands!!! ;)
For its construction I had to carefully connect two six-tile magics which have three pieces in common.

In the future, if I have time, I will do an eight-tile magic which will be made out of two six-tile ones with two common tiles, and an eleven tile-magic made of two six-tile magics, with only one piece in common. LOL I don't know! :P

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Last edited by kastellorizo on Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:59 am 
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They all look awesome!!!!!!!!!! So do you have any other patterns in mind? Maybe your next one should be a 22 panel magic so it can turn a 1x2x3 cube and look just the same as a Rubiks Maze. That would be cool. Don't you think so?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:57 am 
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Thanks Darren! :)

And yes, you are talking about the Master Magic Maze, which is indeed a future project, and as you correctly said, is supposed to have 22 tiles. Unfortunately though, I only have five tiles left!!! :?

Any ideas for where I can get a good price for many tiles?
(I am not going to restring existing ones, I find it very cruel LOL)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:52 am 
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Very impressive... VERY impressive... I think it's about time I got back into designing magics of my own. There's an idea I've been mulling over for years and haven't really gotten around to designing yet... When (if?) it is eventually launched, I think you'll understand the reason why. Stay tuned...

kastellorizo wrote:
In the past, everyone has been making magics which have 4xn tiles (i.e. a multiple of four).

After searching a bit, only Juozas (six, seven and ten tiles) and Puzzlemaster42 (six and ten tiles) created such custom ones in the past.


I beg to differ. If you check the database, you'll see a 6 tile magic that I made WAY back... the Macross mini magic. That was the only one I've ever made with 6 tiles, though... the mechanics on that one just kind of weirded me out. If there was ever a puzzle that deserved Weird Al's "Everything You Know Is Wrong" as a theme song, that would be it. L8r.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:37 am 
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Tim Browne wrote:
Very impressive... VERY impressive... I think it's about time I got back into designing magics of my own. There's an idea I've been mulling over for years and haven't really gotten around to designing yet... When (if?) it is eventually launched, I think you'll understand the reason why. Stay tuned...


Thanks Tim!!! It feels nice to hear such words from someone who is a specialist when regarding magics! :)
And it will be absolutely interesting to see some new designs from you! :D


Tim Browne wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
In the past, everyone has been making magics which have 4xn tiles (i.e. a multiple of four).

After searching a bit, only Juozas (six, seven and ten tiles) and Puzzlemaster42 (six and ten tiles) created such custom ones in the past.


I beg to differ. If you check the database, you'll see a 6 tile magic that I made WAY back... the Macross mini magic. That was the only one I've ever made with 6 tiles, though... the mechanics on that one just kind of weirded me out. If there was ever a puzzle that deserved Weird Al's "Everything You Know Is Wrong" as a theme song, that would be it. L8r.


Ooooh there was another post too? :oops:
I guess my search missed it... sorry for that.

I agree with you regarding the mechanics of the 6-tile, they are indeed really interesting. I could not believe how nice it was functioning after playing with it for a while. It is simply exotic! Especially now, with the new stringing techinique, I have no fear of doing the secret cube move or other combinations! :)
This is why when making the 9-tile magic (silver challenge) we must be sure that the stringing is consistent (i.e. the 9-tile is two 6-tile connected, one of which is upside down!).

I have done some crazy stuff already, like stringing a 4-tile in a 2/3 cube form (not flat) shape! It can change form, but it is very weird and never becomes flat LOL
(but the strings come out very easily after a couple of times, regardless what I did... - I may revisit this idea some other time in the future)

About the Master Magic Maze, I was thinking of many ways of how to build it. I decided it will not be a 22-tile one, but a 32-tile one. It is a combination of four magics (12-tile, 10-tile, 8-tile, and 6-tile). The 12-tile could become two cubes as your magnificent magic (in your profile pic) has already demonstrated to us. The 6-tile will be a cube of its own, while the 10-tile will compliment the 8-tile to make the three remaining cubes. It will be a very difficult puzzle. The best part though, would be that by combining all four magics in their flat state, you will get a 6x6 square which will need to have a closed loop line (i.e. second solution/problem).

In every magic I create, I try to put as much research as I can to avoid mistakes. Because mistakes can sometimes force you to re-string the magic from scratch, which is not very pleasant LOL

The paper work and configiration is ready, but the tiles have still not arrived! Well... they will... very soon! ;)



Peter

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:50 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:

Thanks Tim!!! It feels nice to hear such words from someone who is a specialist when regarding magics! :)
And it will be absolutely interesting to see some new designs from you! :D


:D

kastellorizo wrote:

Ooooh there was another post too? :oops:
I guess my search missed it... sorry for that.


No worries... I don't think I ever posted about it to the forum at any time, but I certainly sold a few of them on eBay way back when... You can see it in the Twisty database here...

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pid=524

kastellorizo wrote:
About the Master Magic Maze, I was thinking of many ways of how to build it. I decided it will not be a 22-tile one, but a 32-tile one. It is a combination of four magics (12-tile, 10-tile, 8-tile, and 6-tile). The 12-tile could become two cubes as your magnificent magic (in your profile pic) has already demonstrated to us. The 6-tile will be a cube of its own, while the 10-tile will compliment the 8-tile to make the three remaining cubes. It will be a very difficult puzzle. The best part though, would be that by combining all four magics in their flat state, you will get a 6x6 square which will need to have a closed loop line (i.e. second solution/problem).


32 tiles??? Oh, man, you're insane! :shock: I guess there's always got to be a bit of insanity thrown in for good measure whenever you start to mod. :wink: BTW, I think that should be 36 tiles, not 32...

kastellorizo wrote:
In every magic I create, I try to put as much research as I can to avoid mistakes. Because mistakes can sometimes force you to re-string the magic from scratch, which is not very pleasant LOL


Exactly right. The first (?) time I tried stringing up my Create a Double Cube, I had the stringing backwards, so the back side of the puzzle was actually INSIDE the cubes... I tried flipping the 2 sides and then applying the solution it took me about a month to design, but it didn't work, either, so I had to completely dismantle and re-string it... That's when I learned that although most magics work regardless of stringing, it doesn't always hold true... quite a humbling experience, and it definitely showed me how much care really needs to be taken not only in the design phase, but also the construction. At least in the case of a Magic, it's simply a matter of re-stringing it. Imagine an analogous case with a twisty puzzle mod, eg. if Anthony Greenhill disovered that after creating his carefully crafted masterpiece, the Tetrahedron-1 (?), that he'd accidentally crafted all the grooves on the opposite sides of the pieces... Come to think of it, assuming it could all hold together like that, that would be a pretty mindblowing mod, too. So, any takers? :D L8r.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:32 am 
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Tim Browne wrote:

No worries... I don't think I ever posted about it to the forum at any time, but I certainly sold a few of them on eBay way back when... You can see it in the Twisty database here...

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pid=524


Cool!!! Thanks for the link. And it was like six years ago... wow! :)



Tim Browne wrote:
32 tiles??? Oh, man, you're insane! :shock: I guess there's always got to be a bit of insanity thrown in for good measure whenever you start to mod. :wink: .


Well, my theory is that, we people, are ALL crazy... some of us though just don't know it! :P


Tim Browne wrote:
BTW, I think that should be 36 tiles, not 32... .


Ooops! That is a grave mistake for a mathematician!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:


Tim Browne wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
In every magic I create, I try to put as much research as I can to avoid mistakes. Because mistakes can sometimes force you to re-string the magic from scratch, which is not very pleasant LOL


Exactly right. The first (?) time I tried stringing up my Create a Double Cube, I had the stringing backwards, so the back side of the puzzle was actually INSIDE the cubes... I tried flipping the 2 sides and then applying the solution it took me about a month to design, but it didn't work, either, so I had to completely dismantle and re-string it... That's when I learned that although most magics work regardless of stringing, it doesn't always hold true... quite a humbling experience, and it definitely showed me how much care really needs to be taken not only in the design phase, but also the construction. At least in the case of a Magic, it's simply a matter of re-stringing it. Imagine an analogous case with a twisty puzzle mod, eg. if Anthony Greenhill disovered that after creating his carefully crafted masterpiece, the Tetrahedron-1 (?), that he'd accidentally crafted all the grooves on the opposite sides of the pieces... Come to think of it, assuming it could all hold together like that, that would be a pretty mindblowing mod, too. So, any takers? :D L8r.


LOL well said! I couldn't express those things better than you did! :D
(and yes, it would be a pretty interesting mod!)


Peter


PS By the way... at the puzzle link you gave me, you mentioned 4,2,4,2 and 3,3,3,3 stringing. Is there a detailed reference for this notation?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:32 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Cool!!! Thanks for the link. And it was like six years ago... wow! :)


I find it hard to believe myself... it's kind of depressing when I think about it... looking through the database, it looks like my final custom mod was done in 2001. I've been out of the mod scene for WAY too long.

kastellorizo wrote:
Well, my theory is that, we people, are ALL crazy... some of us though just don't know it! :P


Well, that's one way to look at it. I'm sure that phyciatrists all around the world would agree with you, but then their impressions would be kind of skewed. Just look at their clientele. :wink:

kastellorizo wrote:
Ooops! That is a grave mistake for a mathematician!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:


And that was on an addition problem, too, backed up with a correct multiplication! :D Oh well... at least the problems agreed with each other, even if the end result didn't.

kastellorizo wrote:
PS By the way... at the puzzle link you gave me, you mentioned 4,2,4,2 and 3,3,3,3 stringing. Is there a detailed reference for this notation?


Probably not... by 4, 2... I was referring to the original stringing pattern on the original Matchbox and Oddzon Magics which would basically double up the strings, ie. the first 3 would be joined by 2 pairs of strings, then they'd add 2 more tiles at a time, each time joining them to the last tile in the chain with 2 pairs of 2 strings until they made a complete loop, so if you follow the grooves around the puzzle, you'd see 4 strings, then 2, then 4, then 2... etc. which IMHO made for an unbalanced load. For the 3, 3... stringing, I started off with 3 tiles held together by a pair of single strings (ie. 1 string per groove) and then adding only one more tile at a time, connecting it with the last *2* in the chain. When you count up the string load by following the grooves this time, it'll be 3, then 3, 3, 3, etc... causing a much more uniform load on the puzzle. You can see this stringing in the more recent Harry Potter Magics. IMHO, the 4, 2 load pattern makes the puzzle easier to build for manufacturers, but the 3, 3 pattern makes it easier for puzzle modders, as you're only dealing with 1 new tile at a time after the initial set of 3. Some of the clone manufafacturers used double length strings (enough for 6 tiles all at once! :shock: ), so you're pretty much stuck with a 4, 2 balance in that case. I never tried doing 6 tiles at a time to see if it's possible to get a more efficient string balance... just getting the first 3 together is hard enough, thank you. I don't need to try to up it to 6. Maybe some day, if I get more of those puzzles, I'll give it a shot. It seems like it should work, though. BTW, if you want to see the 3, 3 string balance in production, take a look at the Harry Potter magics. Theirs says Copyright 2001 (I wasn't aware that was so old, either...), so I beat them by at least a year, and yet not once did they give me even a cent in licensing fees for the new technique. Cheap bastards. :? :wink: L8r.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Tim Browne wrote:
And that was on an addition problem, too, backed up with a correct multiplication! :D Oh well... at least the problems agreed with each other, even if the end result didn't.


*still blushing about it* LOL

Tim Browne wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
PS By the way... at the puzzle link you gave me, you mentioned 4,2,4,2 and 3,3,3,3 stringing. Is there a detailed reference for this notation?

Probably not... by 4, 2... I was referring to the original stringing pattern on the original Matchbox and Oddzon Magics which would basically double up the strings, ie. the first 3 would be joined by 2 pairs of strings, then they'd add 2 more tiles at a time, each time joining them to the last tile in the chain with 2 pairs of 2 strings until they made a complete loop, so if you follow the grooves around the puzzle, you'd see 4 strings, then 2, then 4, then 2... etc. which IMHO made for an unbalanced load. For the 3, 3... stringing, I started off with 3 tiles held together by a pair of single strings (ie. 1 string per groove) and then adding only one more tile at a time, connecting it with the last *2* in the chain. When you count up the string load by following the grooves this time, it'll be 3, then 3, 3, 3, etc... causing a much more uniform load on the puzzle. You can see this stringing in the more recent Harry Potter Magics. IMHO, the 4, 2 load pattern makes the puzzle easier to build for manufacturers, but the 3, 3 pattern makes it easier for puzzle modders, as you're only dealing with 1 new tile at a time after the initial set of 3. Some of the clone manufafacturers used double length strings (enough for 6 tiles all at once! :shock: ), so you're pretty much stuck with a 4, 2 balance in that case. I never tried doing 6 tiles at a time to see if it's possible to get a more efficient string balance... just getting the first 3 together is hard enough, thank you. I don't need to try to up it to 6. Maybe some day, if I get more of those puzzles, I'll give it a shot. It seems like it should work, though. BTW, if you want to see the 3, 3 string balance in production, take a look at the Harry Potter magics. Theirs says Copyright 2001 (I wasn't aware that was so old, either...), so I beat them by at least a year, and yet not once did they give me even a cent in licensing fees for the new technique. Cheap bastards. :? :wink: L8r.


Wow, now that is some story! Amazing...

Regarding my "new" stringing technique that I proposed, well, it is not that new afterall... it is exactly what you have just described LOL
(The Dino Magic is indeed a 3,3,3,3 puzzle!)

But I can add some more information about it. Stringing all odd numbered tiles (clockwise with respect to one face) and then all even numbered tiles, is EVEN more balanced than stringing the tiles in normal order (1,2,3,4,5,6...). ;)

As for the long strings, they are difficult to use for building, they do not give enough flexibility, it is easy to cause balance problems, and in my opinion are very dangerous compared to the short (robust) ones because of stretching-to-breaking-point issues! :)



Peter

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:18 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Well, my theory is that, we people, are ALL crazy... some of us though just don't know it! :P


No I think I'm the craziest because I have a 64 panel/tile and a 100 panel/tile in mind that I'd pay some to make it for me because it looks very hard just to put together the normal magics let alone the ones I have in mind. Now I just need to know where I can buy a Solid State printer from. Anybody know?!?!?!? Dear God I hope they do!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I know I'm a little off the rocker nah make that totally off.


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