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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:21 am 
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Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
Burgo, do you currently solve any of the Crazy2face planets CCL? Which do you prefer to solve reduced to an Rubik's Cube? Which do you prefer to reduce to a Circle Cube?
I solved all C2f by reduction. It's always more efficient to reduce to a RC where possible, but it generally depends on the amount of 0faces vs 1faces.

I am really hoping that I can do this! When I initially did the Crazy cubes, I had to do quite a few by the CC last approach and I found it rather unsatisfactory because a cube specific technique was required for each to cycle 3 circle corners. I find reduction much more satisfactory and have already done more this time than last.

robertpauljr wrote:
Thankfully, it is not a race! Either folks have quit updating the Progress spreadsheet, or we have all just slowed down, or maybe are taking a break from the planets for a bit.

Well I have had a little distraction with Eitan's star, the 4x4 Mixup cube (which I was rather disappointed in because it was so easy) and a large number of non-twisty puzzles. But I reckon it might be time to get back to work on Mars again! Lord help me!! :shock:

AndyChilly wrote:
Thank you rline and Burgo again for a fantastic puzzle!
Yes! I agree wholeheartedly.
Absolutely! They are tremendous - even if most are beyond my abilities!

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Last edited by Puzzlemad on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:07 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Either folks have quit updating the Progress spreadsheet, or we have all just slowed down, or maybe are taking a break from the planets for a bit.

The second option applies to me :wink: , I don't think I will abandon planets soon !


I can report my experience mostly on regular crazy 3x3x3 planets as I tried them with almost all methods. CCL could be used on almost all planets but i found it not so fun. Reductions are much more fun, and some planets can be solved applying both reductions also when it is not immediately intuitive, the most nice example is reducing Earth to rubik's cube (RC).
I suggest to try both reductions as the solving experience is different, is like having two "versions" of one puzzle.

These were the solves I tried with 3x3x3 planets:

N = not possible
Y = possible
- = not tried (not possible?)
Code:
Crazy3x3x3    RC    CC    CCL
Jupiter       Y     N     -(N?)
Uranus        Y     -(N?) -(N?)
Neptune       Y     -(Y)  -(Y)
Mars          Y     Y     Y
Venus         N     Y     Y
Earth         Y!    Y     Y
Saturn        Y     N     Y
Mercury       N     Y     Y


One thing that came into my mind in the past was: if Earth that has only 2 1-faces can be reduced to RC than could be possible that also Uranus that has only 2 0-faces could be reduced to CC ? But I never tried to answer myself.

My experience with C2f is very limited but at least for Earth we know that the double reduction is possible. With bandaging it was not obvious but Andrea showed me the right path to it.
Code:
Crazy2f        RC    CC    CCL
Jupiter        Y     N     -
Uranus         Y     -     -
Neptune        -     -     -
Mars           -     -     -
Venus          -     -     -
Earth          Y!    Y     -
Saturn         -     -     -
Mercury        N     Y     -


AndyChilly wrote:
Thank you rline and Burgo again for a fantastic puzzle!

For sure!.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:10 am 
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Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
So reducing to a circle cube means somehow getting the CCs matched up with their outer edges correctly, then solving without twisting any 1 faces?
As rline said.. yes :) .
...

I think you can tell by the kinds of moves that I'm doing that my intention was to attach the CCs to the Yellow edges.

...

I've certainly stuck to a reduction method, or `idea`.

Today I watched your 2 videos for Venus from "1 year ago" as Youtube puts it. Makes me wonder what everyone means when they use the term "reduction" especially in the context of reducing to a circle cube. See my question above? You and rline both answered affirmatively, and it is true that that would be reducing to a circle cube, but it is becoming more and more clear to me that that is not the only way you and others are using the term.

A couple weeks ago when I was trying to get my head around it I was told by someone else that solving the inside of the circle before doing the outer corners meant reducing to a circle cube. It didn't really seem to matter what order they were solved in.

When solving Venus both you (Burgo) and I start by solving the inner and outer edges. Then I use a relatively easy way to solve the outer corners and a more "interesting" way to 3-cycle the CCs home. I suppose most people would say I am solving it CCL. Indeed I am. But I could also argue that I am reducing the CCs on the last step by using a 3-cycle to "attach the CCs to their outer edges." With your Venus reduction method you use a relatively simple way to solve the CCs. Then you use a more "interesting" way to solve the outer corners. It could be argued that using the simple method for the pieces that there are more of makes sense, but after doing my CCs last and watching you do your outer corners last, my last step seems much simpler to me.

One question: Why is it that solving CCs next to last is reducing them, but solving CCs last is not?

Bottom line: I'm having a blast with this! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:34 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
One question: Why is it that solving CCs next to last is reducing them, but solving CCs last is not?

I'll take a stab at this but will be happy for Burgo to add or correct if needed. Thinking about a circle cube, the solving method would be

1. solve circle edges
2. solve outer edges (which have all the correct CCs attached to them)
3. solve outer corners

Thinking about reducing venus to a circle cube, I would do it the same way. But this time, because it's not a circle cube, the CCs have become detached from the outer edges. So there's the extra step of reducing the outer edges (eg. attaching CCs to them). And so to call it a "reduction to a circle cube", we're following the same sequence as a circle cube, but we need to attach CCs to the outer edges before we solve outer corners. But in doing that, it's far easier if the outer edges are already in place, so I place them first. But this placement of outer edges is purely a "helpful" part of the reduction.

If I solve the CCs last, then I haven't really solved it like I would solve a circle cube and so I haven't solved by reduction to a circle cube.

That's my take on it, anyway. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:01 am 
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rline wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
One question: Why is it that solving CCs next to last is reducing them, but solving CCs last is not?

I'll take a stab at this but will be happy for Burgo to add or correct if needed. Thinking about a circle cube, the solving method would be

1. solve circle edges
2. solve outer edges (which have all the correct CCs attached to them)
3. solve outer corners

Thinking about reducing venus to a circle cube, I would do it the same way. But this time, because it's not a circle cube, the CCs have become detached from the outer edges. So there's the extra step of reducing the outer edges (eg. attaching CCs to them). And so to call it a "reduction to a circle cube", we're following the same sequence as a circle cube, but we need to attach CCs to the outer edges before we solve outer corners. But in doing that, it's far easier if the outer edges are already in place, so I place them first. But this placement of outer edges is purely a "helpful" part of the reduction.

If I solve the CCs last, then I haven't really solved it like I would solve a circle cube and so I haven't solved by reduction to a circle cube.

That's my take on it, anyway. :)
Makes sense! Thanks.

But wait. A circle cube could be solved by a corners first method, could it not, just like a Rubik's Cube? So could you not solve a circle cube by doing
1. inner edges.
2. outer corners
3. outer edges

Not having ever played with a circle cube, I can't say from experience. Perhaps it is time to bust apart Earth and Saturn and make a circle cube. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:31 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
But wait. A circle cube could be solved by a corners first method, could it not, just like a Rubik's Cube? So could you not solve a circle cube by doing
1. inner edges.
2. outer corners
3. outer edges

Not having ever played with a circle cube, I can't say from experience. Perhaps it is time to bust apart Earth and Saturn and make a circle cube. :D

You can, in principle, solve any puzzle in any order. There are many reasons not to (hidden parity problems for example), but there is nothing stopping you from solving puzzles any-piece-first.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:04 am 
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Brandon Enright wrote:
You can, in principle, solve any puzzle in any order. There are many reasons not to (hidden parity problems for example), but there is nothing stopping you from solving puzzles any-piece-first.

Right! After a couple solves of a Circle Cube Corners First, it seems to work out nicely to do it in this order:
1. Outer Corners
2. Outer Edges
3. Orient Centers

So if I reduce a planet cube to a circle cube using this method, I suppose I would
1. Solve the outer corners
2. Reduce and solve, or solve and reduce the outer edges
3. Solve the inner edges

I wonder if it would really work on Crazy 333 Mercury? And then if it would work on Crazy2face Mercury???

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:05 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
When solving Venus both you (Burgo) and I start by solving the inner and outer edges. The only reason I solve the outer edges before CCs is to make it easier to `see` where to attach the CCs. Like I said before, it's more of a philosophical way to `see the puzzle`, and it does help with solving.

Then I use a relatively easy way to solve the outer corners and a more "interesting" way to 3-cycle the CCs home. I suppose most people would say I am solving it CCL. Indeed I am. Yes, you are.

But I could also argue that I am reducing the CCs on the last step by using a 3-cycle to "attach the CCs to their outer edges." Of course, this is true philosophically, but naturally, when any puzzle is fully solved it is reduced into all of it's subsets. The implication for what we are talking about is reducing it to a simpler puzzle, and then solving that simpler puzzle.

With your Venus reduction method you use a relatively simple way to solve the CCs. Then you use a more "interesting" way to solve the outer corners. How I go about solving the reduced Circle Cube is only a suggestion. The important thing is `that it is reduced to a circle cube`. I would solve the reduced Circle cube much differently now. I've come a long way with my solving.. that video was from within my first year of puzzling. These days I would just solve the corner permutations with CPS, and then orientations with double applications of Sune. If only I could go back and teach myself a few things :lol:

It could be argued that using the simple method for the pieces that there are more of makes sense, but after doing my CCs last and watching you do your outer corners last, my last step seems much simpler to me.Hopefully you can see that my last step would be much simpler these days too :wink: You could even do orientations and permutations at the same time with full CPS.. as long as the CPS twists were performed on 3x 0faces, the setup/undos could be done on any faces (0 or 1) :) . You can also just do F2L for the bottom corners, then do a LL solve.


robertpauljr wrote:
So if I reduce a planet cube to a circle cube using this method, I suppose I would
1. Solve the outer corners
2. Reduce and solve, or solve and reduce the outer edges
3. Solve the inner edges.
The whole point of reducing the CCs to the Outer Edges, is so we don't have to maintain the positions of the corners during the CC <> Outer Edge reduction (or for that matter, even the Outer Edge positions). Maintaining the positions of the corners is expensive.

robertpauljr wrote:
Bottom line: I'm having a blast with this!
[/quote]I know, and it's a good conversation, it's probably helping others too :)

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:17 am 
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Reducing to a Circle Cube

I am not talking about C2f puzzles at this point. After the discussion yesterday I wanted to see if I could reduce Crazy333 Mercury to a circle cube without solving the outer edges first. What a nightmare that was! The actual reducing by moving things to the bottom 1 face for replacing wasn't so bad, but keeping it all straight was horrendous. Anyway, I ended up solving it like this:

1. Inner edges
2. Outer edges
3. Circle corners using the method I came up with long ago for Crazy333 Earth
4. Outer corners

Now I never thought of my method for solving Earth as being a reduction method. And I wasn't thinking about it tonight as it was playing out with Crazy333 Mercury as reduction at first either. But then it clicked. "Light bulb" :D The method I use on Crazy333 Earth and Mercury to solve the CCs is to hold a 1 face on bottom, move a CC to the bottom with a 3 move up-replace-down sequence, replace it with the CC on the bottom that goes with the outer edge, and move it back up with the reverse up-replace-down sequence. I had never thought of it as reducing the outer edges. I had always thought of it as solving the CCs.

In fact, it is the same sequence I use to solve the outer corners, only being careful not to twist a 1 face. On Earth and Mercury, that is easy. And it is the same sequence I use to solve pieces on lots of different puzzles. It is just a basic commutator.

With Earth and Mercury my thinking was not, "how can I reduce this to a circle cube?" but rather was, "huh, when I try to 3-cycle the CCs the outer corners go too, but I could do the outer corners alone by not twisting the 1 face, so I'll do the CCs before the outer corners."

So in fact I was going through the motions of reducing to a circle cube even though I didn't think of it that way.

Now if only I could reduce my weight without thinking about it. :roll:

Perhaps instead of going back to Mars (BG) I will return to Crazy2face Mercury with my enlightened view of reduction.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Hi Crazy2F Cubers,

the neptune is harder than it looks. I try to build the subcube with three "0" faces, with no success.
With Crazy cubes this was no problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Perhaps I undervalued Neptune...

PS - Haven't had a chance to play with puzzles in over a week. Probably won't for a while, either. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Hi Crazy2F Cubers,

the neptune is harder than it looks. I try to build the subcube with three "0" faces, with no success.
With Crazy cubes this was no problem.

I couldn't get Crazy2face Neptune or Mercury until I watched Burgo's Crazy2face Mercury video. I was able to implement the ideas not only to solve Mercury, but also Neptune's 2x2x2 block. It was awhile back and there has been much traveling through the planets since so now I am wondering if it was a bit of luck with Neptune, or if the reduction method worked to fill in the CCs on the 2x2x2 block on Neptune.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Hi Robert,

robertpauljr wrote:
I was able to implement the ideas not only to solve Mercury, but also Neptune's 2x2x2 block.

Thanks. This helps. I solved the crazy neptune subcube different.
Here the C2F neptune subcube I solved the circle edges first. Then I paired triangles (circlecube) with edges for solving the 2x2x2 subcube.
All other is not hard. The rest with Rubiks Cube reduction.I solved the neptune.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Hi Robert,

robertpauljr wrote:
I was able to implement the ideas not only to solve Mercury, but also Neptune's 2x2x2 block.

Thanks. This helps. I solved the crazy neptune subcube different.
Here the C2F neptune subcube I solved the circle edges first. Then I paired triangles (circlecube) with edges for solving the 2x2x2 subcube.
All other is not hard. The rest with Rubiks Cube reduction.I solved the neptune.

That is wonderful!

So now, what planet will you travel to next? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Hi Robert,

Quote:
So now, what planet will you travel to next?


Uranus is the next. After that I will try mars. I see, you solved the mars. Is it very hard ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Hi Robert,

Quote:
So now, what planet will you travel to next?


Uranus is the next. After that I will try mars. I see, you solved the mars. Is it very hard ?

Cheers,
Andrea

At one point in experimenting with Venus, I discovered a circle corner 3-cycle that did not move anything else, so solved Venus Circle Corners Last. It was a 30 move sequence not counting simple setup moves. I also used it with Mars (WG). But the last couple days I've been trying to understand circle cube reduction better, and think I am getting it. My new goal, instead of going on with Mars (BG) is to go back and work through Mercury, Venus, and Mars (WG) trying to do outer corners last, and circle corners next to last.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:54 pm 
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I solved C2f Mars like C2f Saturn, reduced to RC. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
I solved C2f Mars like C2f Saturn, reduced to RC. :)

Good to know. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:27 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Burgo wrote:
I solved C2f Mars like C2f Saturn, reduced to RC. :)

Good to know. Thanks.

I agree.

Before going to Mars, I will do more solves with neptune.
What are the most interesting planets ?
In my opinion Mercury and Earth. Saturn is interesting,too. I solve Saturn like Earth.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:52 am 
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psi wrote:
I've finally solved C2f-Earth using reduction to 3x3x3.


Congratulations

I saw you solved Mercury, too. Is Earth harder than Mercury.
Finding a solving strategy is the interesting part of these puzzles.

Thanks to rline and Burgo.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:05 am 
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Dreiser wrote:
rline wrote:
I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock:

I solved the Crazy2face Neptune with the same strategy http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 54#p308254
I think that themathkid and AndyChilly (10 minutes solve) have a better strategy. I hope they can share the solution.


Looking back through the thread I didn't realise someone requested my method (this never happens) :D

But I will share My Neptune 2f 2x2 block building method for anyone who is interested.

The first thing I do is get the 2 face pieces out of the way onto their side (in no particular order).

Once that is done I work on the RWB corner, I use the 0 faces to get the correct inner corners in place on it, this involves a fair bit of reconstructing the 2 face now and then, once that is done stick it in the YGO corner.

This knocks out one of the yellow pieces but that is manageable.

Then, taking care not to disturb the RWB corner if possible, I construct the inner and outer edges using various combinations of EPS and set ups.

Once this is done you are almost home free. you can now move all pieces fairly freely around the 1 faces as long as you don't turn an 0face, so you can stop worrying about the 2face pieces. I find a corner that is A ) not your RWB and B ) not a 2 face one C ) contains either a R, B or W inner corner on it. I place that in the YGO corner now, I then turn one of the 0faces 180 degress and bring the corner of our 0 faces out directly below new corner piece, I then use an EPS x 3 to swap the two corners and then turn the 0face back 180 degrees so it is in position.The aim of this is to put at least one of the RWB inner corners in the 0face corner and into its correct position. if the inner corner is not connected to its correct face colour, bring the corner back out swap the two corners again and then rotate that peice before putting it back into the 0face corners

so now you have a situation where you have all of your edges in position and at least one inner corner in position.

now you want to get your pre set-up RWB corner and put it back into the YGO position, (you want to orient it correctly at this stage) now you repeat the previous method of bringing out the corner that is in the middle of all 3 0faces 180 degrees but this time you want to do it in a way that leaves the one correctly placed inner corner behind, perform the EPS x 3 to swap the RWB corner piece so it is now in place, turn the corner back 180 degrees and you have your 2x2 block.

Im so sorry if this just doesn't make sense, (I usually dont share my methods for this reason, I know how I do it but I dont know how to make it understandable for others) I am sure by now most of you have your own methods but this is my one and it works pretty well for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:23 am 
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Andrea wrote:
psi wrote:
I've finally solved C2f-Earth using reduction to 3x3x3.

I saw you solved Mercury, too. Is Earth harder than Mercury.

Maybe it's just an impression but I found C2f-Earth(RC reduction) easier than C2f-Mercury(CC reduction), it's possible it only me because I find more intuitive "thinking" to construct cubies blocks instead of pairing circle corners to edges. I still have to figure out C2f-Earth(CC reduction) but I'm already finding it more tough than C2f-Mercury.
Andrea wrote:
Finding a solving strategy is the interesting part of these puzzles.

Completely agree, in fact this is where I fail the most :lol: .


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:20 pm 
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psi wrote:
Maybe it's just an impression but I found C2f-Earth(RC reduction) easier than C2f-Mercury(CC reduction).. I still have to figure out C2f-Earth(CC reduction) but I'm already finding it more tough than C2f-Mercury.
I found a few minutes this morning and finished off C2f(2L) Earth. I solved it with reduction to an RC.. it was reasonably difficult to place the first 2x CCs, but the rest was straightforward. I expect my difficulty rating of C2f Earth was somewhat due to the fact that I solved it with reduction to a CC.. solving to an RC should be easier.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
I found a few minutes this morning and finished off C2f(2L) Earth. I solved it with reduction to an RC.. it was reasonably difficult to place the first 2x CCs, but the rest was straightforward. I expect my difficulty rating of C2f Earth was somewhat due to the fact that I solved it with reduction to a CC.. solving to an RC should be easier.


I'm always amazed by your skills, few minutes :shock: ? Good!

But today I also manage a solve: finally did C2f-Earth also with CC reduction :mrgreen: . I found the first part more difficult (solving all circle edges), the rest is very similar to Mercury and not so difficult(compared to C2f-mercury), there are four 0-faces to play with so there is some room.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:15 pm 
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With most puzzles I get, I work with it until I can solve it, then keep working with it until I am comfortable. Not so this kit. Solve one, move on. Oh, some of them have had more time than that I suppose, but here I am going back to Mercury trying out some ideas that I've picked up along the way, but I can't even make it to that part of the solve! :oops:

Get a face yellow. Check.
Get the inner edges. Finally with way too much effort.
Check for parity. Check.
F2L. Somehow this step turned into a nightmare and I couldn't get the yellow edges, and all inner edges solved at the same time. Finally when I did, one yellow corner was twisted. Trying to get it oriented correctly messed up other things. By the time I got back to a yellow face and inner edges done, when I checked for parity it was off and after doing the parity fix, and getting the yellow face again, 5 inner edges are messed. :roll: :?

:lol: :lol: :lol: I never have to buy another puzzle as long as I live. I can just keep cycling through these Crazy2face puzzles! :lol: :lol: :lol: But wait, what's that I see, over there to the right? "Two new WitEden & Oskar 3x3 Mixup Cubes"?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:36 pm 
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psi wrote:
I'm always amazed by your skills, few minutes :shock: ? Good!
Well, it was probably about an hour or so, it was more a comment on life getting in the way of puzzling. You saw how close it was to solved.. all the Inner and Outer edges (the hard parts) were done. I'd left it on the computer table and the kids had messed with it :o (neither of them would admit to it :lol: ).. thankfully it's difficult to twist very far without blocking, so they didn't put an inner edge parity or anything into it, but it still took a bit of thinking and a few longish moves to get it all back.. the edges had been scrambled a bit!

But, after placing the first 2x CCs, it was a very straightforward `Crazy333earth (RC reduction) solve`.

robertpauljr wrote:
With most puzzles I get, I work with it until I can solve it, then keep working with it until I am comfortable. Not so this kit. Solve one, move on. Oh, some of them have had more time than that I suppose, but here I am going back to Mercury trying out some ideas that I've picked up along the way, but I can't even make it to that part of the solve!
I know how you feel. After finishing C2f(2L) Earth, I can't even remember the first part of the solve very well. I'm just like.. I hope no-one asks me for a solve video :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
With most puzzles I get, I work with it until I can solve it, then keep working with it until I am comfortable. Not so this kit. Solve one, move on. Oh, some of them have had more time than that I suppose, but here I am going back to Mercury trying out some ideas that I've picked up along the way, but I can't even make it to that part of the solve!
I know how you feel. After finishing C2f(2L) Earth, I can't even remember the first part of the solve very well. I'm just like.. I hope no-one asks me for a solve video :lol: .

:lol: :lol: :lol: After going in circles getting nowhere with Mercury today I was just about ready to give up. One more try. Just one more try. And this time things worked out, and now I'm finally to the stage where you solve the outer F2L. :D Do I know what I did differently to make it work this time? Nope. Maybe just got lucky.

Here is some great news though. It snowed a few inches here last night. We don't get much snow here in the foothills, so it is a rare treat. But going down the driveway to get the mail, I slipped and fell. It hurt my left shoulder area when it happened. :cry: But the great news—it doesn't hurt any more and I'm back to Mercury! 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:49 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I found a few minutes this morning and finished off C2f(2L) Earth. I solved it with reduction to an RC.. it was reasonably difficult to place the first 2x CCs, but the rest was straightforward. I expect my difficulty rating of C2f Earth was somewhat due to the fact that I solved it with reduction to a CC.. solving to an RC should be easier.


Did you run into the reduction parity on Earth / (2L)Earth with an RC solve?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:39 am 
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Hi Seth,

Do you mean LL corner swapping? Yes, you would usually get this, and I did, but I just treated it as per usual on a Crazy333earth RC reduction solve:

You just switch out the Outer Corner + CC relationship between 2x matching coloured CCs on a 0face.

So, for example..

    You set yourself up so that you have 2x corners needing to `swap` in the LL.
    Swap the 2 adjacent `correct` corners, using their shared colour.
    Place one (matching coloured Outer Corner + CC) you want to `swap`) into the D face, with 2face twists, note: the D edge must remain.
    Then twist the Outer corner `off of it's CC` with D2.
    Then place the other (matching coloured Outer Corner + CC) into `the other` D corner position ,using only 2face twists.
    Then do the appropriate D or D' to bring the CCs back onto their `opposite partners`.
    Then you can put back the correct D face corners with 2face twists, and return D.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:22 am 
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Hi Friends,

Today I made a walkthrough solve video for C2f Venus. The shorter [(F2 M’)x2 (U2 M)x2] CC placement sequence can be used on C2f Mercury as well.

C2f Venus walkthrough solve: http://youtu.be/uk6S0IsJUNU

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:59 am 
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Hi all! So I know the energy and enthusiasm for working on the C2F planets has died down quite a bit, but I just wanted to share something. Recently, SuperAntonioVivaldi posted three videos on the MF8 Crazy 3x3x3 Plus [4-Circle Version], aka the mass-produced version of the Crazy2Face(2N) Venus. His method and algorithms are very similar to the solution outline I posted on page 4 of this thread. Here are the links to his videos:

Part 1: Algorithms
Part 2: A Parity-Free Solve
Part 3: And Now, The Parity!

PS - Does anyone know if he bought a Crazy2Face kit?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:08 am 
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Hi Seth,

He didn't get a kit in the first batch, but I have him down for a kit in this second batch.

I had intended to be making and posting about some new bandaged variants by now, but as you know, my energies have been spent in organising and making the second batch. I've made a commitment to myself to make and post a new variant every fortnight over the next year. Hopefully that will maintain the interest and help explore some of the potential of the kits :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:27 am 
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That is great Burgo a great way to keep people interested and talking. *Trying* to solve the same puzzle at the same time as other people would be a good way of getting people interacting about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:47 am 
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Hi all. I have been thinking about this topic from a few days ago. In it, Andreas said the following:

Andreas Nortmann wrote:
A Crazy 3x3x3 is nothing more than a 3x3x3 with visible core and visible orientation of the faces.
That means bandaging a crazy 3x3x3 by gluing adjacent pieces does not create anything new.
compared with the 5844 different variants viewable here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24406

It occurs to me just now that adding B4 elements to a Circle Cube creates at least one interesting situation. I'm not sure if it's covered by the Bandaged 3x3x3 DIY Kit. I'm hoping to get some clarification.

Remember that circle edges represent center orientation and the centers are just the visible core. Now consider the bandaging the white center [part of the core] + white circle edge from the white/blue edge [indicating blue face's orientation]. On a normal 3x3x3, you would be effectively bandaging the blue center to the core. In other words, the white face will be able to turn no problem but the blue face is permanently locked [I believe this is the equivalent of an X-center?] No other interactions or restrictions occur as best I can tell. All permutations of the 3x3x3 should still be possible.

My question is this: can this type of bandaging be done with the Bandaged 3x3x3 DIY Kit? My instinct says no, but I've been fooled by the DIY Kit's mysterious workings before.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Hi Seth,

When Andreas said Crazy 3x3x3, I'm pretty sure he meant Circle333.
The exterior bandaging when applied to a standard Circle333 has equivalents in the CT bandaged 333 kit.
B4elements can create many interesting possibilities not in the CT bandaged 333 kit, but often this changes the functioning of centers, which is not a traditional Circle333 anymore. Most of my things in the B4kit are not based on the standard Circle333, but some are.
Your example of a single Center + Inner Edge on a standard Circle333 is correct. It functions like an Xcenter, a completely bandaged centre. This element is not in the CT Bandaged kit, apart from superglue.
We will explore these things physically soon, when I begin making examples.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:32 pm 
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OK, I finished my hand modding on the new kits yesterday, so I'm putting together my first CrazyB4cube for the year. I decided to start with

Rline's Puzzle (V1- without the B4pink bandaging, V2- with the B4pink bandaging).

that I designed for him on his request, but I never physically made it or solved it myself. So today I assembled it. I wanted to do something that used the hand modded centres, so that we could experience those aspects, and of course, we're still restricted to the non-expanded kit.

Here it is on his Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYFQuLO8yxk

Here is the template:
Attachment:
rline's puzzle.jpg
rline's puzzle.jpg [ 375.54 KiB | Viewed 1726 times ]


Here is my puzzle scrambled and ready to go (I decided to make it without the pink B4bandaging first, and then do it again afterwards, with it):
Attachment:
rline's puzzle scrambled.jpg
rline's puzzle scrambled.jpg [ 173.27 KiB | Viewed 1726 times ]

Shouldn't be too hard right? It's only a Jupiter :wink:
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:51 am 
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I made a solve of both puzzles. The pink B4bandaged version definitely adds a difficulty, you need a few tricks up your sleeve for that :) .
I made some photos of the solving order. I think I got the difficulty level just about right, and I'm interested to see if anyone else wants to try it. Responding will help me understand how difficult to make further puzzles.
Attachment:
rline's puzzle solve.jpg
rline's puzzle solve.jpg [ 1.28 MiB | Viewed 1698 times ]

I will also include a photo of how I install the modified core component, an elastic band saves some work, gently jiggle the layer on removal and assembly (click on any pictures to enlarge):
Attachment:
installation of modified core component.jpg
installation of modified core component.jpg [ 646.18 KiB | Viewed 1698 times ]

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:18 am 
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When I saw this puzzle on rlines youtube channel, the fact that he was unable to solve it I think put me and other people off attempting it.

This is not rlines fault at all. The pressure of doing a blind solve for the first time whilst learning how each face moves must have been huge.

Speaking to Burgo he urged me to give it a go, I told him that I couldn't possibly considering I haven't got past Crazy2fMars yet and he assured me this was easier.

Dubiously, I constructed "rlines puzzle" as it has been dubbed, but this was at 11:30pm last night (its now 9:00am and im at work) so I finished putting it together and played with it for a bit.

Now it isn't solved yet but the progress I have made in the short amount of time just goes to show that it is not that troublesome at all once you know how the cube moves.

Here is a couple of pictures. One from last night and then one this morning, walking to work....I'm at the end game now as everything is reduced...I will have this solved after work for sure and I urge you all to give this configuration a go, It is a lot of fun and really shows you the potential of the puzzle itself.

Attachment:
74351_10153755338575571_593309933_n.jpg
74351_10153755338575571_593309933_n.jpg [ 95.64 KiB | Viewed 1620 times ]

Attachment:
1528674_10153756175385571_969964535_n.jpg
1528674_10153756175385571_969964535_n.jpg [ 83.65 KiB | Viewed 1620 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:22 am 
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Hi friends,

I want continue solving C2F cubes. C2F 2L earth is my next candidate.
Is it correct that all face have "0" circles and the green and yellow have "2" no circles ?


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:53 am 
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Andy,

Congratulations on your work so far. And you're right, there's no embarrassment for rline in his video, that was a very brave thing to do, just to start playing with the puzzle on video, publicly, from first impressions. We all know he's a great solver, and videoing yourself tends to make your mind go blank at the best of times, it does for me anyway.

Andrea,

Nice to see you're still at it, and always seeking the tough puzzles on the list :D .. Your right, The Yellow and Green are 2faces and the rest are circle faces (0faces).

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Attachment:
522447_10153757392205571_487894728_n.jpg
522447_10153757392205571_487894728_n.jpg [ 70.89 KiB | Viewed 1578 times ]


Solved!

Its actually an extremely fun set-up....I may keep it like this for a long while.

Thanks for persuading me to try it Burgo!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Hi Burgo,
Burgo wrote:
Nice to see you're still at it, and always seeking the tough puzzles on the list :D .. Your right, The Yellow and Green are 2faces and the rest are circle faces (0faces)


Yes it's very hard. It's hard to scramble it. But I have no idea how to solve it.
After scrambling only the green and yellow face is turnable.

The blocking is much more because the green faces.
Perhaps I must give up, to solve this cube.

Some hints ? ( or a video )


Cheers, Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Andrea,
It's the kind of puzzle where I don't know if I could do a video. I made a few posts on page 4 about it with some pictures, but nothing about how to solve it. It took me weeks, off and on, to solve it, just a little at a time. I used your reduce Earth to Rubiks Cube method. Good luck, I think you can do it, but it requires great concentration and perseverance.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:41 am 
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Hey Guys,

Burgo: Thanks for your posting.

My first experience and ideas

Make the yellow and green face green and yellow like this
Attachment:
earth2l.jpg
earth2l.jpg [ 83.84 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]


Now the sub-cuboid blue-orange-white-red has no yellow or green stickers.
Now all faces are turnable.

I used sunes for this step (top and right are yellow and green)

R,U,R',U,R,U'2,R'
U2
R',U',R,U',R',U2,R
U2

This makes a clean turning of corners.
The step befor I solved the flipping of edges with techiques like Petrus method.(but harder)
To bring the last wrong corner(corners) to the yellow/green faces I used CPS
L' U R U' L U R' U'

If a move was not possible (because blocking) I turned 2 corners, then I continued the CPS succesfull.

Hmm, very difficult.
Ok, it's not much, but a start.

After this I was able to complete the yellow and green face, so all corners are solved.
Attachment:
earth2l2.jpg
earth2l2.jpg [ 106.83 KiB | Viewed 1461 times ]

(edit)
This puzzle is a bad monster. Perhaps this is much harder then the Geranium Puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:46 am 
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I present my second puzzle in the `2014 puzzle every 2 weeks` series.

Andy’s Labyrinth (V1- ½ moon on red face)(V1.5- red as 2face, except: red, white, blue corner unbandaged)(V2- all red pieces as 2face pieces).

Attachment:
CrazyB4cube Uranus(RGYO).jpg
CrazyB4cube Uranus(RGYO).jpg [ 571.02 KiB | Viewed 1372 times ]
Attachment:
CB4(Uranus).jpg
CB4(Uranus).jpg [ 410.3 KiB | Viewed 1372 times ]
Attachment:
B4 1.jpg
B4 1.jpg [ 1.88 MiB | Viewed 1372 times ]
Attachment:
Solved state.jpg
Solved state.jpg [ 1.73 MiB | Viewed 1323 times ]

Rline's puzzle focussed on constraining, this time I wanted to focus on bandaging. It's got `unexpected areas of difficulty`, as in, you might not see what aspects are difficult before playing.. the Pink bandaging isn't really the difficult part. It's about the same level of difficulty as Rline's puzzle.

The version I'm presenting can be seen as an `unbandaged version` of a much more difficult monster. And for those who thought that using a 5face would `trivialize` a puzzle, try out the unbandaged version and see if the opinion remains.. The unbandaged version simply has the Crazy 1/2 moon element removed on the red face. Even the standard version is not trivialized by the 5face.

I spent quite a while putting this puzzle together, and it went through various versions until I had a great puzzle, I hope you enjoy it :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:55 am 
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REALLY looking forward to getting my paws around this puzzle. Its me and the mrs date night tonight, she wont mind if I stay at home and make this will she?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:08 pm 
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You better tell me you went on that date :shock:
Either that or there is probably a puzzle shaped dent in the middle of your forehead!!

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:28 pm 
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Yea, we had our date, in fact its been such a busy weekend im only just setting up the puzzle tonight!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Attachment:
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image.jpg [ 1.79 MiB | Viewed 1252 times ]


Here we go!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am
Location: Rye, East Sussex
Hmm, this is has baffled me a bit on initial look. Ive only played around with it for 15 mins at the moment and only reduced the Pink.

I suspect reduction isn't the method for this but I could be wrong. (it happens a lot)

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How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"


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