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 Post subject: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:42 pm 
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This type of puzzle is very much fun ;) MF8 revealed a new item in their store. http://shop.mf8-china.com/goods.php?id=99
rline had written about his idea of a Crazy 2-Face here.
Burgo is currently delivering a kit for Crazy2face, Crazy3face and CrazyB4cube and wrote about it here.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:48 pm 
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rline had the original idea, he should get some credit for this!

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:34 am 
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The idea to combine plain Rubik faces with circle faces is not completely new.

In summer 2011, I got this Witeden Cube under the name "Witeden Super 3x3x3"
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It looks similar to the mf8 Crazy 2-Face(U,D), doesn't it?

Here is the Museum entry.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:35 pm 
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The Crazy 2-Face puzzles are a nice challenge and it looks like they will be mass produced fairly soon. I'm delighted that many more puzzle enthusiasts will be able to enjoy them. There is no doubt that rline had a central role in making this idea popular. He also developed a great nomenclature for the faces and puzzles that Burgo expanded. MF8 would do well to use it.

The numbers describe the properties of a face:

0-Face: central circle stays in place as face turns
1-Face: central circle turns as the face turns
2-Face: no circle; face turns
3-Face: no circle; face does not turn
B4-Face: circle face with bandaging between elements

ETA: the 2-face looks like a 3x3 face, but is... different.

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Last edited by Pete the Geek on Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I agree with pete,

After studying this nomenclature in great detail, Rline and Burgo have got it perfect, if Mf8 dont follow this there will be a whole world of confusion.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:17 pm 
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andychilly wrote:
After studying this nomenclature in great detail, Rline and Burgo have got it perfect, if Mf8 dont follow this there will be a whole world of confusion.

I see no confusion at all. The "2-face" refers to the fact that only two faces are crazy / circled. Similarly, the "4-face" has four crazy / circled faces. This is clearly evidenced by the text in the picture listing the faces that are circled. The fact that they're using the title "Crazy 3x3x3" instead of "Crazy 2-Face" further lends itself to this.

And anyways, we should not expect Mf8 to adopt forum-born nomenclature. With all their planet-series puzzles, they have produced clear diagrams for each puzzle explaining the differences of each face. This is sufficient to avoid confusion. Besides, was it not MF8 that came up with the 0 / 1 / 2 nomenclature in the first place? 0- and 1-faces starting with the crazy / circle cubes and 2-faces from the crazy tetrahedrons. Give them some credit. And as of yet, Mf8 has not release any puzzles with 3- or B4-faces anyway. If they do, they will make the differences clear with a diagram as always. No need to worry.

martywolfman wrote:
rline had the original idea, he should get some credit for this!
Konrad wrote:
The idea to combine plain Rubik faces with circle faces is not completely new.

rline was the first to extend the concept of circle puzzles to using all three face types that had been named up to that point - 0, 1 and 2. Simple examples using only 0 and 2 faces existed before this, as Konrad points out. Witeden also had similar puzzles with 0 and 1 faces [the Super 3x3x__ variants], though the 2-face concept gets a little muddled here.

Since these new Mf8 puzzles do not mix all three face types as rline's Crazy 2-Face puzzle / kit did, I do not see there being any obligation on Mf8's part to give credit. rline certainly deserves credit for spurring interest in these types of puzzles, but I hardly see that as the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Seth, you misunderstand.

There is a whole lot more to this that I haven't published. Andy knows a little bit because Andy has helped me with some of the editing.

MF8 has developed the naming `2face` that we have borrowed from the Crazy Tetrahdron series, to keep our nomenclature consistent with and in the spirit of existing nomenclature. I have spent a very long time writing and editing posts and documents that I will reveal in a few weeks time when my customers get their puzzles. The nomenclature is important because it allows us to talk about, and name, very complicated puzzles.

In the past a 2face has designated a `type of face`, not a `number of circle faces`. The number of circle faces has always been designated with `planet names`. I'm sorry, but MF8 haven't thought this through, and it will be confusing. Especially when I release my CrazyB4cube series, which is more elaborate than anyone is guessing. It is MF8 who hasn't used the traditional nomenclature.

There is conversation in private anyway. I have shown the scope of my production initially with Andreas and later with all the Moderators.

I hope my customers can get the nice surprise that I have planned when they open their boxes without many people forcing me to reveal all of my ideas early. I still guarantee them value for money over the mass produced product here. Such is my efforts.

Enough nomenclature is available on the forum presently to describe this series.

The Witeden Super 333 = Crazy2face(4L) Saturn (in the Crazy2face series it would have a BWGY colour scheme).

We don't even know the properties of the puzzles on the MF8 site, the nomenclature doesn't describe it. What are the circle faces?

So hopefully we can have a better naming scheme. As I have said, I have put a lot of effort into my nomenclature, and it is fully transferrable to the more complex CrazyB4cube series, which is important to me.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
Seth, you misunderstand.

Burgo wrote:
In the past a 2face has designated a `type of face`, not a `number of circle faces`. The number of circle faces has always been designated with `planet names`. I'm sorry, but MF8 haven't thought this through, and it will be confusing. Especially when I release my CrazyB4cube series, which is more elaborate than anyone is guessing. It is MF8 who hasn't used the traditional nomenclature.

Burgo, you misunderstand me as well.

On this particular puzzle there is no confusion because the phrase "2-face" is overlaid on a picture of a puzzle with the two circle faces indicated. It's very clear that "2-face" here refers to the fact that there are only two circles and NOT to the face-type nomenclature. Any rational shopper should be able to figure out what this puzzle is. The existence of the CrazyB4 kit does not make it any more difficult to figure out how this puzzle will turn. The only confusion should be whether the circles are 0 or 1. But based on the fact that nothing is mentioned about this, I think we can safely assume that they are all 0 circles.

Is the listing an unfortunate coincidence? Yes. Would I encourage Mf8 to continue this type of description / naming? No. Would I encourage them to adopt the nomenclature you've developed? Yes, absolutely. But am I confused by what this puzzle is? Not in the slightest and neither should anyone else here.

These are just two puzzles. If Mf8 starts releasing a whole series like this, they will develop their own notation just like they have for all their other planet series. It might not be the same as your notation, but things will be clear, just like they always have been with Mf8 series. Have faith. This is an isolated incident and we're spending far too much time worrying about it.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Aside from the debates of nomenclature and origin, these look interesting and I hope the b4 series will prove its unique merits once it begins circulation :) can't wait for the reviews, tutorials, and walkthroughs that I love so much from this community.

Burgo, what is the price for your crazyb4 set? Or were you only sending out test sets before they become available to the rabble

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:37 am 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
Aside from the debates of nomenclature and origin, these look interesting and I hope the b4 series will prove its unique merits once it begins circulation :) can't wait for the reviews, tutorials, and walkthroughs that I love so much from this community.

Burgo, what is the price for your crazyb4 set? Or were you only sending out test sets before they become available to the rabble
I don't want to argue about nomenclature or origin either, I've done what I've done, and everyone will know.

The CrazyB4cube set is made and mailed, sorry. There may be other opportunities in the future. Everything will be disclosed about the kit and it's properties in a few weeks.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:48 am 
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Burgo wrote:
The CrazyB4cube set is made and mailed, sorry. There may be other opportunities in the future. Everything will be disclosed about the kit and it's properties in a few weeks.


I for one am very excited, Burgo!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:50 am 
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Burgo wrote:
The CrazyB4cube set is made and mailed, sorry. There may be other opportunities in the future. Everything will be disclosed about the kit and it's properties in a few weeks.

I'm soooooo excited! :D
I love these puzzles and you are opening up a huge new world of pleasure/pain! I just hope I'm up to it.

As a geek who loves reading the manuals to everything I own, I am particularly looking forward to your detailed exposition on these puzzles. Thank you so much for all the work you've put in!

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:57 am 
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Thanks guys, we probably shouldn't fill this thread with it though. :)

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:38 am 
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This thread was thoroughly hijacked. So are all of the MF8 crazy faces in this series 0's?

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:54 am 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
This thread was thoroughly hijacked. So are all of the MF8 crazy faces in this series 0's?
I couldn't find any details about this in the mf8 shop. If so, the 2-face is probably identical to the Witeden Super 3x3x3.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:59 am 
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For those interested in my nomenclature (and the planet names will indicate the solving experience of these 2 puzzles). If the circle faces are all 0 faces:

The (UD) version is the Witeden Super 333 = Crazy2face(4L) Saturn (in the Crazy2face series it would have a BWGY colour scheme).
And the (FRBL) version is Crazy2face(2N) Venus (and it would have a WY colour scheme).

Also, if the circle faces are all 0 faces, all of the Crazy2face puzzles will be able to be made with these 2 puzzles. I think that would be the intention.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:59 pm 
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These puzzles are on HKNowStore. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Hi Crazies,

I don't want to take people's business. I just want to make people aware that I have intentions to make further CrazyB4cube kits from these puzzles. SOON. The only way that I can keep the price reasonable is to make a whole kit. If you are considering buying these, and you want the full kit, please look here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25902&start=66 All relevant people and sellers are still getting their cut when you buy through me that way :) . I could organise something for you if you buy these.. but you would be paying more in total.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:10 pm 
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I'm happy with my puzzles, but they came with only circle stickers (e.g. standard Crazy 3x3 sticker sets). You will also need your own set of regular 3x3 stickers for the 2-faces. If you are making the Crazy2Face kit you will only need one regular sticker set. (It is hard to see the white and yellow, but all six colours on both sets are circle stickers).
Attachment:
Crazy 3x3 2-Circle and 4-Circle w Stickers_sm.jpg
Crazy 3x3 2-Circle and 4-Circle w Stickers_sm.jpg [ 183.7 KiB | Viewed 1378 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Pete the Geek wrote:
I'm happy with my puzzles, but they came with only circle stickers

That's gotta be a packing error, surely? :? I can't imagine mf8 not realising they needed non-circle stickers for their non-circle faces.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:04 am 
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I've been working with Cubesmith to round off all the sharp edges on their Circle Cube sticker sets, I'm not sure when they'll make them available publicly, but they are cutting my stickers for my kits presently (which include these), so, very soon I guess. They will be worth getting anyway.. and they will match when you get the standard 333 stickers.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:08 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I've been working with Cubesmith to round off all the sharp edges on their Circle Cube sticker sets, I'm not sure when they'll make them available publicly, but they are cutting my stickers for my kits presently (which include these), so, very soon I guess. They will be worth getting anyway.. and they will match when you get the standard 333 stickers.
I used Cubesmith Crazy 3x3 and regular 3x3 sets for my hand-made kit and they are excellent. I'm happy to hear they are rounding the sharp edges, as it saves a step. It will definitely be worth changing the stickers when they are available.

For now, I just used a DaYan 3x3 sticker set for the 2-Faces. The kit on the left is the factory puzzles, took about an hour to make. The kit on the right is made from regular Crazy 3x3s and took many hours over a couple of weeks.
Attachment:
Crazy 2-Face Kits_sm.jpg
Crazy 2-Face Kits_sm.jpg [ 133.64 KiB | Viewed 1331 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:35 am 
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I hear you Pete, I made 18 of them! Plus other parts.. madness :lol:

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:44 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I hear you Pete, I made 18 of them! Plus other parts.. madness :lol:

...and yet you're making more?! :lol: :P

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:56 am 
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rline wrote:
Pete the Geek wrote:
I'm happy with my puzzles, but they came with only circle stickers

That's gotta be a packing error, surely? :? I can't imagine mf8 not realising they needed non-circle stickers for their non-circle faces.
I can confirm rline: I got two complete sets, one for 12 circle faces, one for 12 plain faces.

I have got the one with four circles, because the one with two is probably identical to Witeden's Super 3x3x3.
I assume all circles are 0-faces. Can anyone confirm this?

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 Crazy 3x3 (2Face+4Face)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:04 am 
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I bought these as well. If you take these apart you can make a 0 face 6 sided cube and a normal rubiks cube. Also, you can make all the crazy planets out of it. You have 6 '0' centres and 6 '1' centres.
I've also ordered a new full kit from Burgo which I'm looking forward to.


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