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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
I tried more and more desperate sets of setups I eventually lost track and scrambled it by accident to the point where I couldn't recover!
It's funny how, when you're experimenting with new things for the first few times, it can appear very complicated, but on reapproaching it later, your objectives can seem a lot clearer :) . Sounds like you have quite a few challenges ahead.. What do they call a group of puzzles taunting you.. a gang, a gaggle, a murder?? I know.. a Conspiracy! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Crazy2f Mercury solved. Thanks to Burgo's video.

My solving history:
Crazy2f Jupiter, Uranus, Saturn solved.
Crazy2f Mercury, Neptune tried and abandoned.
Burgo's Crazy2f Mercury video watched.
Crazy2f Mercury solved.
None others attempted yet.

When solving non-2f Mercury I simply solved the puzzle one piece type at a time. All the inner edges, then outer edges, then CCs, then outer corners. Crazy2f Mercury was nothing like this. I like Burgo's method. Perhaps now I will go back through the thread and see if there are other methods given for Mercury that would have anything I'd like to incorporate, or try. At any rate, I was just about ready to give up on these puzzles and put it away. Now my interest is renewed. :D

If someone were to make a spreadsheet that was available online would all you Crazies be willing to add your username and check off which Crazy 2-face puzzles you've tried and which you've successfully solved? Is it possible to set something up that can be edited by everyone? Anyone know how?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:01 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
If someone were to make a spreadsheet that was available online would all you Crazies be willing to add your username and check off which Crazy 2-face puzzles you've tried and which you've successfully solved? Is it possible to set something up that can be edited by everyone? Anyone know how?

Does this work?

I used a "w" to mean I worked on it, or am working on it, but have not solved it yet.
I used an "x" to mean I solved it.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:54 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
If someone were to make a spreadsheet that was available online would all you Crazies be willing to add your username and check off which Crazy 2-face puzzles you've tried and which you've successfully solved? Is it possible to set something up that can be edited by everyone? Anyone know how?

Does this work?

I used a "w" to mean I worked on it, or am working on it, but have not solved it yet.
I used an "x" to mean I solved it.

I think it does. :) I even changed the "x" to "s" to mean "solved". But it's your sheet. You can change them back. :lol: The only thing is that this is only for the single 2face puzzles. And there are a couple of versions of (I think) 3 of the puzzles. Then there are the "two 2face" puzzles etc etc. My much larger concern is seeing the complete lack of progress I've made with my own puzzle series :( , which will become even more apparent if Burgo and Seth start filling it in.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:41 am 
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Damn you crazy2face venus!!!

Stuck on it for a week, does anyone have an alternative method to Seths for solving? I am having trouble getting my head around his way of cycling the 3 inner corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:05 am 
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rline wrote:
I think it does. :) I even changed the "x" to "s" to mean "solved". But it's your sheet. You can change them back. :lol:
:lol: Yay! I'm glad it works. "s" is fine. In fact I almost did that myself. Don't know why I went with "x". :)

rline wrote:
The only thing is that this is only for the single 2face puzzles. And there are a couple of versions of (I think) 3 of the puzzles. Then there are the "two 2face" puzzles etc etc.
If no one else fills in the extra names perhaps I will eventually. :lol:

rline wrote:
My much larger concern is seeing the complete lack of progress I've made with my own puzzle series :( , which will become even more apparent if Burgo and Seth start filling it in.
:lol: Motivation! :lol:

Thank you rline, Burgo, and Dreiser for your participation. I look forward to seeing how others are doing too.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:56 am 
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AndyChilly wrote:
Damn you crazy2face venus!!!

Stuck on it for a week, does anyone have an alternative method to Seths for solving? I am having trouble getting my head around his way of cycling the 3 inner corners.

Venus is a lot like Mercury. Have you tried Mercury?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:22 am 
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Burgo wrote:
Sounds like you have quite a few challenges ahead.. What do they call a group of puzzles taunting you.. a gang, a gaggle, a murder?? I know.. a Conspiracy! :lol:

:shock: :shock: :shock:
I think I'd call it "a crushing defeat" of puzzles! :oops:

robertpauljr wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
If someone were to make a spreadsheet that was available online would all you Crazies be willing to add your username and check off which Crazy 2-face puzzles you've tried and which you've successfully solved? Is it possible to set something up that can be edited by everyone? Anyone know how?

Does this work?

It certainly does work! Even on an iPad! Well I have filled in my humiliation. There doesn't seem to be any way to add columns to put the other puzzles on it.

Maybe I'll give Mars another go soon - need to rest a while first!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:49 am 
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I've been working on the C2f(2L) Earth today. It's starting to come together now, but I'm finding I need to be very precise, so the solve will take a while.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:21 am 
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Solve the C2F Earth

I don't use a spoiler, perhaps less people read this.

I made some pictures to show the basic technique. For video my voice is not good.

The basic technique is to make EPS and then resolve the yellow corners. So they don't block the other faces.

The key is that the corner permutation must be clean. They must not touch edges and circle edges.

3 cases

1

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 001.JPG
C2F-Earth 001.JPG [ 198.38 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]

(x turn the cube that yellow becomes back)
x L' U R U' L U R' U'

The mirror:
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 002.JPG
C2F-Earth 002.JPG [ 188.9 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]

x R U' L' U R' U' L U

The last case yellow sticker is on the white face:

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 003.JPG
C2F-Earth 003.JPG [ 215.25 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 004.JPG
C2F-Earth 004.JPG [ 194.14 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]


Top face is yellow

( L2 U R2 U' ) 2 times


First step is: put all yellow stickers to the yellow face:
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 005.JPG
C2F-Earth 005.JPG [ 236.2 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]


after that ==>
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 006.JPG
C2F-Earth 006.JPG [ 195.72 KiB | Viewed 1734 times ]


Then solve the white, orange , blue 2x2x2 subcube , only circleedges and edges


I write a second posting for the next steps ...


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:55 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Quote:
Does this work?

It certainly does work! Even on an iPad! Well I have filled in my humiliation.

Thanks Kevin. Even an old iPad? :P

I added a column for the other Mars. And I labeled the two columns for Mars. But several of you already had entries in that column. As it stands now it says Dreiser and Kevin are working on (or have tried) Mars (BG), and Burgo solved Mars (BG). If this is incorrect and it should be (WG) that you really did, please move your mark.

Would I be out of line to glean information from the thread and add names to the spreadsheet? I think there are others here that have reported progress that I could add unless they had any objection to be included in it.

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Last edited by robertpauljr on Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:56 am 
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To solve the 2x2x2 basic subcube use sunes and EPs and make a clean restore of yellow (2) face.
a) solve only circle edges
The result is:
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 007.JPG
C2F-Earth 007.JPG [ 188.67 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


then add the edges
==>
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 008.JPG
C2F-Earth 008.JPG [ 197.67 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]

To do this you bring an edge into the top (white) layer and transport it with sunes.

The next step is the WORKING POSITION

Top face is red (0) right face is yellow (2) front face is green (1)
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 009.JPG
C2F-Earth 009.JPG [ 554.93 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


Important: The next is solving two red circle-edges in top/back and top/left position, marked with a small x.
It's difficult to solve it later.

It's possible to separate a red circle-edge from a yellow bandaged edge to do that !

==>
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 010.JPG
C2F-Earth 010.JPG [ 206.43 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]



Now pair edges with inner/circle edges and place it.
To do this you can use the technique I described in the last postings.
One sequence is Usefull, too : R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U R2 U' R2
This makes a clean 2x2 swap of edge-groups !

Important !
To reach all possible positions it's necessary to flip edges and bandaged edges.
You can temporary separate circle edges and flip it with the green and yellow face.

After this you can start pairing corners with triangles (circle corners)

before you start the top/left top/right triangle must be white
In the following picture the position is marked with a small X.
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 012.JPG
C2F-Earth 012.JPG [ 181.48 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


Now you can pair corners with triangles. It's as easy as crazy earth, crazy saturn, ....

After this the cube looks like this :

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 013.JPG
C2F-Earth 013.JPG [ 207.28 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


Now you can solve the white layer and middle layer similar to a Rubiks cube.

In the last (yellow) layer it's possible that two corners are swapped. use the other two adjacent corners ,
in the picture blue/yellow and exchange it on the white face. Use equal triangles for that. In this example the blue triangles.

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 014.JPG
C2F-Earth 014.JPG [ 212.78 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 015.JPG
C2F-Earth 015.JPG [ 199.06 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


After re solving the middle layer in this example all corners are solved.

Attachment:
C2F-Earth 016.JPG
C2F-Earth 016.JPG [ 238.48 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]


Now make a easy sequence with yellow and green face to permute the last edges.

And the cube is solved:
Attachment:
C2F-Earth 017.JPG
C2F-Earth 017.JPG [ 215.12 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]



For each step the techniques from crazy cubes are all what you need.

Much fun with this method.

Cheers,

Andrea

PS: Perhaps someone give a reply.


Attachments:
C2F-Earth 011.JPG
C2F-Earth 011.JPG [ 181.23 KiB | Viewed 1728 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:25 am 
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Regarding the Crazy Cubes Progress spreadsheet:
rline wrote:
The only thing is that this is only for the single 2face puzzles. And there are a couple of versions of (I think) 3 of the puzzles. Then there are the "two 2face" puzzles etc etc.

I've added the ones that I gleaned from Seth's post about them after he had done them all. Perhaps there are other puzzles that should be added, but from Seth's post it seems like adding all of the puzzle names would just be adding a lot of impractical clutter. But if anyone has any more they think should be listed by all means feel free to add them.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:56 pm 
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I've added my progress to the table, nice idea.
And I will give Andrea's earth solution the time it deserves. Thank you for posting it!, the reduction to RC was my preferred method for the crazy 3x3x3 earth version even if was not the obvious way to solve it.
I 'm so low on time :( , this forum is so active, new puzzles released, new invented, new ideas in progress. Wow, can't keep up :wink: .


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
PS: Perhaps someone give a reply.

Andrea, I think what you've achieved here is amazing. I'm in awe, and like psi
psi wrote:
I 'm so low on time :( , this forum is so active, new puzzles released, new invented, new ideas in progress. Wow, can't keep up :wink: .
I can't keep up with it all. Well done!

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Last edited by rline on Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:11 pm 
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@Andrea: I have not yet looked at any details of the solutions posted here.
I remember the deep admiration I have felt when I looked at your method reducing the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Earth to a Rubik's cube. I'm sure you have done a great job here as well :D :D

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 Post subject: Crazy2Face(2N) Venus Solution
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:00 am 
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I have solved Crazy2Face Mercury 2f-Y, 3f-W and (2N)Venus [FINALLY!]!!

The Mercury variant is basically (2N)Venus with one of the 2-faces changed to a 3-face. Solving wise, I'm sure (2N)Venus should technically be easier since it allows more moves, but I solved the Mercury variant first and simply applied it to (2N)Venus. There are no differences in terms of parities / orbits, so there was nothing new to learn for (2N)Venus, but the Mercury variant really helped me focus. The D face is really just a distraction.

I was absolutely dependant on simulators for this one, sadly. Andrea's YAPS program proved invaluable. I developed some small sequences on my own with a regular Rubik's cube and Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Venus, but the real bulk required trying longer and longer concatenations of these, so it was much faster to fiddle with the simulator. Another big thing that helped me is the realization that the CCs appear to fall into two separate orbits.

[SPOILER]Crazy2Face Mercury 2f-Y, 3f-W & Crazy2Face(2N) Venus Solution Outline

Sequences Used:

X = [R,U2,R',U2]
Y = [U2, L', U2, L] = mirror of X'
Z = [F2,U', F2, U, F2], [R2, U, R2, U', R2], U = domino adjacent corner swap [messes up edges]
W = [R2,U2]x3 = domino opposite edge swap

XXX = X3 = corner 5-cycle
XXXXX = X5 = edge 3-cycle [FR --> UL --> UR]
[X R X] (U2R'LU2) [X2 U2 Y'] RL' = U center orientation parity fix
[[X3 U2 Y3 U2] R2]x2 = circle corner 3-cycle + leaves edges intact



Outline:

1. Hold white at D. Try to get all 2-face pieces on the white face [doesn't matter white or yellow]

2. Fiddle around intuitively until you have a complete circle on any 0-face on R and partial circle on U-layer collar on L side.

3. Clear the L face. Use setup moves in conjunction with edge 3-cycles [any of X5 / X'5 / Y5 / Y'5] to move 2-face edges off the L face.

3. Use X, Y, and inverses to orient corners. I have not nailed down the precise sequence needed for all cases, so this a bit hit and miss at first. The easiest are when two adjacent corners on U need orienting:

- If the yellow / white parts are on opposite faces, hold them at UFR and UBR. Perform X3.
- If the yellow / white parts are on the same face, hold them at UFR and UFL. Perform LR' Y U2 X'2 U2 L'R

4a. Use edge 3-cycles [X5 and similar] to move all white and yellow pieces into either the U or D layer if they aren't already. This will require some simple setup moves. Don't bother to position them correctly - they will get jacked up during step 5 anyways.

4b. Solve the middle layer edges and circle edges using X5 and similar. This sometimes requires simple setup moves towards the end, but it's not very difficult.

5. Treat the puzzle like a domino. Use domino techniques to solve the U and D faces. [I use W and Z, but any domino sequences are ok.] Note that the circle edges on the U- and D-face collars are fixed to the U and D centers respectively - they cannot be moved out of their layer. D circle edges can be easily solved during this process.

6. Get the middle layer back in order. Repeated instances of W can swap 2 middle edges easily. This can easily be combined with step 5 with some care.

7. Check the U-face center / circle edges on the collar. If it needs a 180 degree turn, we're ok. This can be solved with normal domino techniques [example: Z2]. If it needs a 90 degree turn CW or CCW, we have a center orientation parity. It's a pretty nasty parity to fix. Use [X R X] (U2R'LU2) [X2 U2 Y'] RL', which rotates the R center 90 degrees and maintains corner orientation. Note - this will mess up corner positions and edges, so you will have to repeat steps 4 / 5 / 6 unfortunately.

*** The external 3x3x3 and all circle edges should be solved at this point. ***

8. Use [[X3 U2 Y3 U2] R2]x2 and it's mirror to solve the circle corners. This will cycle LD and UR CCs on the F face and the RD CC on the B face. It's a long sequence [54 moves!], but in practice is VERY easy to remember and perform. The X and Y commutators go very quickly, so it's not as bad as it sounds. And thankfully there are only 8 CCs in each orbit, so you shouldn't need do this very many times. 2-3 move setups will be required throughout this step.

9. Resolve as a domino [including middle layer fixes like in step 5 / 6].

10. Marvel.

[/SPOILER]


All in all, very difficult and very different from other planets [I believe I labeled this as impossible more than once, even!]. I found the edge sequences early on. The corners are the really nasty part of these two puzzles, though. Thankfully my sequences for edges and corners use the same commutator as a base, so the sequences are easier to perform than they look.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:36 am 
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Hi puzzlers,
Thank you for the reply,

psi wrote:
I 'm so low on time :( , this forum is so active, new puzzles released, new invented, new ideas in progress. Wow, can't keep up


I'm slow, too. I solved only 4 standard c2f cubes.
It's not my intention to win a battle. It's more enjoyment to work longer with one interesting puzzle.
I cannot understand what 2L means. Which faces must be 0 1 or 2 ?
The nomenclature is not easy for me. (Perhaps my poor English is the reason)

robertpauljr:
Good idea the solving table !

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:55 am 
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Andrea wrote:
I cannot understand what 2L means. Which faces must be 0 1 or 2 ?

The 2 means there are two 2-faces. The L means they are linear.

Andrea wrote:
robertpauljr:
Good idea the solving table !
Thanks. I am glad the group likes it. I kept wondering how everyone was doing, what order they were solving in, and who was working on the same puzzle as I am. In the forum it is hard to keep track. The data is all spread out. A table seemed a good way to track our progress.

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:40 pm 
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I have made a spreadsheet of [hopefully] all puzzles that can be made with 0/1/2/3 faces. This took much longer than I expected, but it gave me fantastic insight into the workings of the 3-faces. I make no claims that my spreadsheet is perfect. I'm sure there are more puzzles that are degenerate [some of which, I'm sure, are not obvious]. I also make no claims that my use of the nomenclature is perfect. I promise I did my best, though. :)

Some initial thoughts:

- Some degenerate puzzles can only be trivially scrambled or scrambled only like a reduced Rubik's Cube
- On some puzzles, the 3-face must be "unlocked" to make it interesting
- On other puzzles, the 3-faces can never be unlocked [3-3 edges are impossible to move out of place]
- All Jupiters puzzles with a 3-face will solve exactly the same as regular Jupiter but with more blocking
- All Uranus puzzles with a 3-face will solve exactly like a reduced Jupiter / Uranus or be degenerate
- I expect many, many Mars / Saturn puzzles will solve easily using normal Mars / Saturn methods
- I expect Neptune puzzles will probably solve like regular regular / (2L) / (3N) Neptune

- Mercury / Venus puzzles look scary as hell
- Earth has more variants per base puzzle than any other planet. This seems to be the best source of interesting puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:48 am 
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themathkid wrote:
I have made a spreadsheet of [hopefully] all puzzles that can be made with 0/1/2/3 faces...
- Mercury / Venus puzzles look scary as hell
- Earth has more variants per base puzzle than any other planet. This seems to be the best source of interesting puzzles.

Nice work, Seth! I'm actually pretty pleased to see your assessment, because I remember the reason I initially thought of this kit was the mercury 2-face, which had oodles of 0 faces and lots of blocking. I thought the ones with only one or two "1" face, would prove to be challenging. I guess "scary as hell" falls into that category.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:51 am 
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Crazy2face Neptune
Finally! Got it. I am beginning to see what you mean, Burgo, about how getting some basic techniques for solving Mercury opens the door to other puzzles. When I first attempted Neptune days ago I couldn't get the 2x2x2 block. I could get close in a variety of ways, but couldn't get it. But after learning how to do Mercury and working through it, Neptune wasn't so impossible anymore. Still challenging—well, the last CC of the 2x2x2 block was challenging—but no longer impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:45 am 
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rline wrote:
I'm actually pretty pleased to see your assessment, because I remember the reason I initially thought of this kit was the mercury 2-face, which had oodles of 0 faces and lots of blocking. I thought the ones with only one or two "1" face, would prove to be challenging.


Absolutely. The only one I've completed is Mercury 3f-W. This was more difficult than anything from the standard or extended planets. My plan is to start from the bottom of the list and work up. I think the bottom ones will go quickly due to the large number of 1- and 2-faces. Reduction to regular cube should be reasonable.

Thankfully, there are many puzzle on the list that look like they won't scramble very well, so hopefully the list won't be as daunting as it looks [similar to the extended only having 4-5 interesting puzzles]. My original list had over 130 puzzles. Every time I look at it, I find more degenerates. But there's still 92 puzzles total at the moment - more than 3 times as many as the extended planet series. Good lord - what have I gotten myself into!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:49 pm 
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themathkid wrote:
Basically, you just assign every [relevant] piece a letter or number. Then you look at a twist or sequence and watch where each piece goes. If you 3-cycle pieces A --> B --> C, then the cycle would simply be written (ABC). Once you have several different twists or sequences in cycle notation, it's very easy to study / build longer sequences by just "multiplying" the smaller sequences. For example (ABC)*(CAD) = (AB)(CD). The nice thing about this is it helps you easily figure out the even / oddness of each permutation, which is useful for fixing parities. The length of a cycle tells you how many times it must be repeated until you're back at the start. So a 3-cycle must be done 3 times return to normal. This can help in reducing complex permutations into simple, more useful ones. If you find a permutation that is two cycles of different lengths [e.g. - W = 3-cycle on one part of the puzzle + 4-cycle elsewhere], you can sometimes just repeat the whole thing several times until one of them effectively goes back to start but the other does not [e.g. W times 4 = just a 3-cycle]. Using these tools, I solved Luke's Hexoid and the latter stages of the Master Skewb without a puzzle or simulator.


I think I did something like what you explained, Seth. Only I wrote everything in a table, with the pieces named in row 1, then where they are after twist 1 in row 2, etc, It worked to generate the following information.

An algorithm I derived from watching Burgo's Mercury video is RL' U2 M2 U2 R'L U2 M2 U2. It was extremely useful in the Mercury solve. Then I moved on to Neptune. I wondered if perhaps it would be useful for Neptune. Trying it with 0 faces on F, R, and U generated a 3-cycle of inner edges, swaps of inner edges and CCs, and a 5-cycle of CCs. Doing the algorithm consecutively an even number of times eliminated the swaps. Doing it 3 times in a row eliminated the 3-cycle, leaving swaps and a 5-cycle. Doing it 5 times in a row eliminated the 5-cycle, leaving a 3-cycle and swaps. Doing it 6 times in a row left only a 5-cycle.

In the end, I didn't use it at all in the Neptune solve.

Quote:
(ABC)*(CAD) = (AB)(CD)
I sort of understand this in terms of A goes to B, then stays put. B goes to C then to A. C goes to A then to D. D goes to C. Is this the thinking behind it, or is there a way to "multiply" as you say without thinking about pieces moving?

Regarding the Neptune solve, Seth's comment:
Quote:
The way around this is to only ever store fully circled pieces (non 2-face pieces) in this area when building your block.
in the post with the circles drawn on the cube, makes so much more sense to me now that I'm finished with Neptune and have moved on. Instead of doing it like that I kept all the yellows on one side, restoring constantly through the block-building phase. I can see now that Seth's idea would be a big improvement. If I ever get through all the planets and want to go back, I'll have to give it a try.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:58 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Quote:
(ABC)*(CAD) = (AB)(CD)
I sort of understand this in terms of A goes to B, then stays put. B goes to C then to A. C goes to A then to D. D goes to C. Is this the thinking behind it, or is there a way to "multiply" as you say without thinking about pieces moving?
Sounds like you've got it down. There's not really a better way to multiply, unfortunately, so it can become unwieldy with longer sequences.

robertpauljr wrote:
If I ever get through all the planets and want to go back, I'll have to give it a try.
Or you can try it out on (2L)Neptune and / or (3N)Neptune! There are fewer fully circled pieces, so you have to be very deliberate. Because of this, they're more difficult, but I found them very enjoyable.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:53 pm 
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I have updated my spreadsheet [see signature] considerably since I first posted about. I think it's much cleaner now. Puzzles are color coded based on the layout of the 2- and 3-faces. This will help with building puzzles. I don't want to keep taking them apart completely. With this information, though, I can now just work on all the puzzles with a particular layout of 2- and 3-faces and swap out centers. Much easier! Granted, this will mean the puzzle I'm working won't necessarily match the colors of the puzzle's name, but that doesn't bother me. My original notes are present on the "Properties" page, but these don't seem as useful anymore.

There is also a second page ["Solving & Relationships"] that I will update with solving notes. Each cell will get a comment [hover over it to see it] with quick solving notes / comments on similarities to other puzzles, and maybe even a link to a walkthrough for the more complicated ones. It's also going to be color coded as more relationships start to emerge, but right now it's fairly sparse. Interesting puzzles will be identified with one color, boring / derivative puzzles another color, etc.

There is a third page, too, that shows quite simply which puzzles I have solved. Grayed out puzzles have been solved. I have only solved a few of the most constrained puzzles [5N layouts] and found a string of degenerate puzzles that cannot scramble or are completely derivative [= some Mars with three 3-faces, ALL Jupiter and Uranus variants]. After taking care of the easy ones, I wanted to start on the 4N layout puzzles. I figured these couldn't be that bad since they only have two circle faces. Boy was I wrong! My first 4N layout is Crazy2Face Earth 3f-RWB and it is absolutely slaughtering me. I've gotten myself stuck into a particular pattern of flipped edges and I cannot escape! It feels like a combination of (2L)Earth and Mars(BG), but all my tricks from those two won't work. Very, very challenging. Highly recommend for the more daring solvers among you crazy cubers. [coughcoughBurgocoughcough]

If the 4N layout puzzles are this bad, it looks like this chart will take much longer to complete than I expected. If anyone is interested in contributing, I can unlock the spreadsheet so that others can edit / add things. Just let me know!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:40 pm 
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I crossed a few Neptune puzzles off the list today. As I predicted, they all require the same basic strategy, regardless of the number of 2- and 3-faces. If anything, the 3-faces make things easier. Crazy2Face (2L)Neptune and (3N)Neptune [no 3-faces, lots of blocking] are the best. It's all down hill from there. Similar to what I did with Jupiter and Uranus, I'm just crossing off all variants of Neptune as solved.

PS - If I'm posting too often, let me know. I feel like other people's posts are getting buried by mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:25 pm 
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themathkid wrote:
...PS - If I'm posting too often, let me know. I feel like other people's posts are getting buried by mine.
Just remember this
Burgo wrote:
themathkid wrote:
You're trying to kill me, aren't you! :lol:
I think you're doing a good enough job of that yourself :lol:

....Cheers,
Burgo.
:lol: You are incredible! I hope you have still some time left to eat and to drink a bit :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
:lol: You are incredible! I hope you have still some time left to eat and to drink a bit :wink:

Well put, Konrad!

Crazy 2face Venus

I have finally solved Venus once. The last layer took so long I no longer have any idea how I did the first two layers! Well, I say first two layers, but there was always one CC or another in F2L that kept getting out of place. In the end I came up with a 3-cycle of CCs that cycled 2 diagonally opposite one another on either the L or R side along with one on U, which was white.

Since I'm not yet comfortable with Venus, or confident I could do it again, that is my next goal. Get comfortable. Get confident. Then I guess it will be time to decide which Mars configuration to tackle.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:20 am 
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I've had a bit of time today and finally had a good go at the Crazy2face(2L) Earth.

I got a horrible inner edge parity that took quite a bit of work and concentration to get through. I got through it by forcing Sunes through numerous blocked states. Now that I've done the inner edges I think.. hope.. it's all more or less down hill from here.

It's a brute of a puzzle. I was talking to my wife about it, and she said, `You like that kind of stuff don't you?` and I said `I guess so` :lol: .
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Crazy2face(2L) Earth.jpg [ 1.09 MiB | Viewed 1197 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:21 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I was talking to my wife about it, and she said, `You like that kind of stuff don't you?` and I said `I guess so` :lol:

You're very very lucky! When I try to talk to my wife about these things she rolls her eyes :roll: and just says "that's nice dear" and it's quite clear she has absolutely no interest at all.

I've ceased working on the Crazy2F puzzles just now because Mars nearly killed me - so for a bit of light relief, I'm working on Eitan's Star! :lol:

So far I am 5 thin triangles away from solving the whole of the bottom half and actually not used a single tutorial or algorithm! All done using just intuition alone! Trying to solve as a geometric dual of the Bauhinia. I know that after the bottom half is done it will then get harder! God help me! I know my wife won't!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:43 am 
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Aww you poor guys :lol: Am I a rarity then, female loves puzzles. *giggles* At least I have friends that understand my puzzling hobby. It would take someone really special to sweep me off my feet, he HAS to like puzzles after all!

I don't even know how to begin with the crazy2faces.. it overwhelms me, that is for sure. Once again I am bummed there is nowhere to try one for myself! But they sure DO look wonderfully intriguing hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:41 am 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
Aww you poor guys :lol: Am I a rarity then, female loves puzzles.

Very rare indeed! I only know of you and one other girl who are serious puzzlers (That would be Rox!!) and maybe 4 or 5 others who will play because their other halves do!!

Kattenvriendin wrote:
I don't even know how to begin with the crazy2faces.. it overwhelms me, that is for sure. Once again I am bummed there is nowhere to try one for myself! But they sure DO look wonderfully intriguing hehe.

Well. You can always try the ordinary crazy cube series - available from Calvin - they are a great way to start.

If you ever come to the UK for a Midlands puzzle party then I can bring mine for you to play with. :wink: Louis comes across from the Netherlands quite regularly for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:46 am 
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I would love to come to mpp but that is a bit problematic right now :?

I AM working on getting one organized here in the country though, just have to wait on a number of venues to get back to me :)


As far as crazy cube.. I have three of them. Mercury, Uranus and Jupiter. Loads of fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
.... I only know of you and one other girl who are serious puzzlers (That would be Rox!!) and maybe 4 or 5 others who will play because their other halves do!!....
We have a few more on the TP forum. E.g. Andrea (great solver; recently quite active in several solving threads; great programmer too), Katja (has not posted for a while, a great solver too), Melysa ...
There are several more for sure.

My wife is not very interested. That's the difference: Burgo's wife likes solving and can do several puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
As far as crazy cube.. I have three of them. Mercury, Uranus and Jupiter. Loads of fun!

I have a c2 b4 kit but I have crazy earth and Saturn as well. Sometimes because I want more than one crazy2f to work with at once I set up a normal crazy in the same configuration and take care when scrambling and solving not to twist the zero faces when there is a yellow on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:31 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Sometimes because I want more than one crazy2f to work with at once I set up a normal crazy in the same configuration and take care when scrambling and solving not to twist the zero faces when there is a yellow on it.
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only solver who does that. This "parallel solve" of a Crazy 3x3 along with the Crazy2Face version has been very helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
As far as crazy cube.. I have three of them. Mercury, Uranus and Jupiter. Loads of fun!

Have you made the other 3 (which you don't have) using your mercury and jupiter?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:56 pm 
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I have made a circle cube, but none of the others. Limited knowledge here and needing lots of help then hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
I have made a circle cube, but none of the others. Limited knowledge here and needing lots of help then hehe.

Oh trust me, it's an absolute piece of cake. Have a look at this vid I made a couple of years ago to show how to change the center pieces and create all the set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAwKWs7vQts

The sound and quality is terrible but it'll show you what to do...

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:16 pm 
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I've finally solved C2f-Earth using reduction to 3x3x3.
I have to thank Andrea for the solving sequence! I used well known and easy algorithms, really sometimes the most difficult thing to do is just to devise the correct strategy.
It's fascinating how some of these c2f cubes seem almost impossible to solve and then you realize you just need to "see" where to apply algorithms you know since years. They provide both a frustrating and then a very rewarding experience !

Solving C2f-Earth as a 3x3 has been totally different (again) than C2f-Mercury, so I really don't know which is more difficult. I think I will try to solve it also reducing to a circle cube.

themathkid wrote:
PS - If I'm posting too often, let me know. I feel like other people's posts are getting buried by mine.

Don't worry, your posts are just great :), the only "problem" for me is that I could experiment with your spreadsheet and burgo/rline puzzles for the next years :roll: .


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:54 am 
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Crazy2face Venus
AndyChilly wrote:
Damn you crazy2face venus!!!

Stuck on it for a week, does anyone have an alternative method to Seths for solving? I am having trouble getting my head around his way of cycling the 3 inner corners.

My first step is to get the yellows on the bottom. Next, get the inner edges. Next the outer edges. Then the outer corners. I finish with the CCs.

Before I explain the way I do CCs, let me say that throughout the solve, keeping the yellows on the bottom is not that difficult and it makes for absolutely no issues of blockage with Venus. I love it! During the bits of the solve when a yellow corner comes to the top, I then just put it back down with an EPS or an EPS 3-cycle depending on which part of the solve I am in.

CC algorithms:
M RL' U2 M' U2 R'L U2 M U2 M' double swaps the front CCs and the top CCs. What I mean is the front CC on FLU swaps with the one on FRD, and the one on FRU swaps with the one on FLD. And the top CC on ULB swaps with the one on URF and the one on URB with the one on ULF. This algorithm is similar to one I learned from Burgo's C2f Mercury video, but adapted slightly because of the 1 face on U with Venus.

Another algorithm is a 3-cycle of CCs. One example is: M2 L-Sune R-Sune M2 R-Antisune L-Antisune, which cycles Rfd to Rbu to Ufr. I'm not sure if I have the notation exactly right. Rfd means the CC that is on the Right side of the corner at RFD.

With these two algorithms I have solved Crazy2face Venus several times.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:50 am 
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Hey Guys, I am slowly getting through these 2face puzzles. But it doesn't seem to be at most your paces.

I just thought I would share my appreciation for the below puzzle that rline put up on his channel. I have 2 crazy puzzles so one has been in this configuration for a long time now because I enjoy the solve so much. Just a small addition of the pink bandaging really changes a lot. I keep getting my kit out and intending to change it to a new puzzle but I end up thinking "oh just one more solve" and then when I have finished I put it back in the cabinet haha!.

I guess other types of B4 puzzles will have to wait until i'm bored of this one!

Thank you rline and Burgo again for a fantastic puzzle!
Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Crazy2face Mars (WG)
After C2f Venus it seemed like Mars (WG) would be the next logical step, since it just meant changing Green from 0 to 1. After fiddling with it for a bit it hit me that perhaps I should try to "reduce" Mars to Venus using the green side to do the top and bottom rows of inner edges first. It pretty much worked. I still struggle somewhat getting all the inner edges but it's coming. :)

Burgo: With Mercury (I pretty much follow the solution method you lay out in your video) you say to check for parity after getting the inner edges. I don't think it ever came up for me in the couple solves I did. Then in Venus it never happened either. I quit checking. On Mars, it finally bit me. Then I messed up somewhere doing the fix, and pretty much started the solve over. Had to do the parity fix again and it worked. You know, the R U2... thing.

I don't think I participated much in the original solving the Planet Cubes thread. I was probably way behind in getting them, and I only got a couple of them, and never made transformations, but somewhere along the line the term CCL came up. Does that mean solving Circle Corners Last? If so, I guess the method I use for Venus and Mars (WG) is a CCL method.

AndyChilly wrote:
Hey Guys, I am slowly getting through these 2face puzzles. But it doesn't seem to be at most your paces.
Thankfully, it is not a race! Either folks have quit updating the Progress spreadsheet, or we have all just slowed down, or maybe are taking a break from the planets for a bit.

AndyChilly wrote:
I just thought I would share my appreciation for the below puzzle that rline put up on his channel.
Thanks for sharing that. If and when I ever finish the basic 1 2face planet cubes I'll have to decide whether to try some 2L or 2N planets, or some B4 cubes.

AndyChilly wrote:
Thank you rline and Burgo again for a fantastic puzzle!
Yes! I agree wholeheartedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Hi Robert, thanks for the update.

robertpauljr wrote:
check for parity.. I quit checking. On Mars, it finally bit me.
Funny how you can get a good run for a bit, and begin to feel safe :lol: .
robertpauljr wrote:
somewhere along the line the term CCL came up. Does that mean solving Circle Corners Last? If so, I guess the method I use for Venus and Mars (WG) is a CCL method.
Yes, it means solving the Circle Corners last, as an individual piece type, rather than reducing them to either Circle Cube edges, or RC corners.. before solving the Corners.
robertpauljr wrote:
Thankfully, it is not a race! Either folks have quit updating the Progress spreadsheet, or we have all just slowed down, or maybe are taking a break from the planets for a bit.
I'm still on the C2f(2L) Earth, I've been a bit distracted though, my kids started playing with the Rubiks Snake, and then I introduced them to the Rubiks Magic, I'd never played with the Magic before, so I've been having a bit of fun fiddling with that as well. I made a solve of the Wormhole 3, which I haven't solved in about a year. Konrad got me a special puzzle from the Dutch Cube Day as a gift, and I've been making a few twists on that monster :) . And I've been assembling a large TARDIS flatpack cube cabinet (the last one is a joke :lol: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26365 ).

I'll be working on some more puzzle kits in the near future too, so I'll have little time for solving :cry: , but I'll try to sneak some in!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
somewhere along the line the term CCL came up. Does that mean solving Circle Corners Last? If so, I guess the method I use for Venus and Mars (WG) is a CCL method.
Yes, it means solving the Circle Corners last, as an individual piece type, rather than reducing them to either Circle Cube edges, or RC corners.. before solving the Corners.
Burgo, do you currently solve any of the Crazy2face planets CCL? Which do you prefer to solve reduced to an Rubik's Cube? Which do you prefer to reduce to a Circle Cube?

Before finding my way on Mars (WG) I tried reducing it to a RC, and indeed managed to reduce all the edges and corners, but then I couldn't get more than a few pieces in place, so abandoned that strategy.

Burgo wrote:
I'm still on the C2f(2L) Earth, I've been a bit distracted though, my kids started playing with the Rubiks Snake, and then I introduced them to the Rubiks Magic, I'd never played with the Magic before, so I've been having a bit of fun fiddling with that as well. I made a solve of the Wormhole 3, which I haven't solved in about a year.
My oldest grandson likes the Snake, and my wife was the master at the Magic. Haven't played with it forever. Wormhole—That whole craze was something that passed me by. Maybe I'll catch up to you on C2f(2L) Earth before you leave it. :lol:

Burgo wrote:
I'll be working on some more puzzle kits in the near future too, so I'll have little time for solving :cry: , but I'll try to sneak some in!
When you go somewhere as a family have your wife drive, so you can solve a puzzle on the road. You can't be working on kits in the car. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:59 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Burgo, do you currently solve any of the Crazy2face planets CCL? Which do you prefer to solve reduced to an Rubik's Cube? Which do you prefer to reduce to a Circle Cube?
I solved all C2f by reduction. It's always more efficient to reduce to a RC where possible, but it generally depends on the amount of 0faces vs 1faces.
robertpauljr wrote:
Before finding my way on Mars (WG) I tried reducing it to a RC, and indeed managed to reduce all the edges and corners, but then I couldn't get more than a few pieces in place, so abandoned that strategy.
With Mars and Saturn (the puzzles without 3x 1faces adjacent around a corner), it's necessary to reduce the edges in their correctly orientated state. I have a number of videos under my Saturn333 Youtube playlist that demonstrate various methods for doing this. The Sune method is the one I prefer, and it's the one I used in the C2f series.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
Burgo, do you currently solve any of the Crazy2face planets CCL? Which do you prefer to solve reduced to an Rubik's Cube? Which do you prefer to reduce to a Circle Cube?
I solved all C2f by reduction. It's always more efficient to reduce to a RC where possible, but it generally depends on the amount of 0faces vs 1faces.
So, which ones do you reduce to a circle cube?

In a pure circle cube, which I've never played with, isn't the idea to orient the centers, which solves the inner edges, then solve the outer edges and outer corners however you want, and the CCs will solve themselves because they are locked to the outer edges.

So reducing to a circle cube means somehow getting the CCs matched up with their outer edges correctly, then solving without twisting any 1 faces?

On C2f Mercury, only some of the CCs are handled this way, right?

Do you use a combination of reduction methods on C2f Neptune? One way on the 2x2x2 block and another on the rest?

Could all my questions be answered by watching your Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Cube videos, or are there any differences in how you had to approach the C2f planets?

Burgo wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
Before finding my way on Mars (WG) I tried reducing it to a RC, and indeed managed to reduce all the edges and corners, but then I couldn't get more than a few pieces in place, so abandoned that strategy.
With Mars and Saturn (the puzzles without 3x 1faces adjacent around a corner), it's necessary to reduce the edges in their correctly orientated state. I have a number of videos under my Saturn333 Youtube playlist that demonstrate various methods for doing this. The Sune method is the one I prefer, and it's the one I used in the C2f series.
When I have time, I will take a look and try to digest this. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:50 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
So reducing to a circle cube means somehow getting the CCs matched up with their outer edges correctly, then solving without twisting any 1 faces?

Correct. The 1 face breaks the relationship of the circle corner to the outer edge. So we use the 1 face to put the correct CCs back with their outer edges.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:50 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
So, which ones do you reduce to a circle cube?
In the first post in this thread, follow the links to solving difficulties, and the information is available there.
robertpauljr wrote:
So reducing to a circle cube means somehow getting the CCs matched up with their outer edges correctly, then solving without twisting any 1 faces?
As rline said.. yes :) .
robertpauljr wrote:
On C2f Mercury, only some of the CCs are handled this way, right?
When thinking about solving the yellow edges, I was still thinking about `how am I going to attach these CCs to the yellow edges` when I was solving it. That may be a philosophical point in this case, because I've `solved the outer corners first`, I'm not sure, but however the method is judged, the reason for doing it that way, in that case, is to `keep the yellow corners out of the way` of setup moves etc. You just need to group the bandaged pieces onto one face to make it possible to consistently twist the other faces.

I think you can tell by the kinds of moves that I'm doing that my intention was to attach the CCs to the Yellow edges.
robertpauljr wrote:
Do you use a combination of reduction methods on C2f Neptune? One way on the 2x2x2 block and another on the rest?

Could all my questions be answered by watching your Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Cube videos, or are there any differences in how you had to approach the C2f planets?
Yes, Neptune is interesting because it is a 1/2 and 1/2 solve. Yes, I would advise you could watch the Videos after you make your own Crazy333planet solves to see if there is anything you might use yourself, and to get more of an understanding of some of the conversations.. I have arranged things in playlists about individual crazy puzzles, showing various methods. There aren't many differences as to how I've approached the C2f puzzles apart from small things like in Mercury, and a similar technique for some other puzzles, like Venus. I've certainly stuck to a reduction method, or `idea`.

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