Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:31 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
This thread got me curious and I didn't want to side track that thread so I've started this one. I've long considered the yellow opposite white color scheme as the one and only standard. Granted I never really paid much attention until I found the need to sticker my own puzzles.

However the thread I mentioned describes a yellow adjacent to white color scheme as the "Japanese (AKA original 1980s) color scheme".
Attachment:
Lattice.jpg
Lattice.jpg [ 42.76 KiB | Viewed 1340 times ]

I think I've seen this before and if memory serves me correctly blue is opposite white.

Anyways, I'm curious about the history here and if there are other schemes that are considered a standard? Is there a standard for the dodecahedron... or other shapes? Was the Japanese color scheme really universal in the 1980's? I need to dig out my original Rubik's cube and check. If so, what prompted the change? Anyone know?

I've always been more interested in the puzzle itself and the mechanism then color placement so I've honesly never paid that much attention but I would like to educate myself as it appears there is some history here.

Thanks,
Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:44 pm
Yes, blue opposite white is the original color scheme used for Rubik's Cubes made by Ideal Toy Corp. in 1980. This is so burned into my brain and my solving patterns that blue opposite green really offends me, and often I will resticker all of the (to me) disfigured puzzles I get.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
That is odd!
I have a book about the history of the cube and it says that the initial production run was in 1977 by Politechnika (with 5000 only made). This was called "The Magic Cube"
The photo that I have of one of those very first cubes shows that the colour scheme that we are used to is correct.
I remember having an original one in 1978 before it really spread across Europe - the box was in Hungarian and I distinctly recall that the red white blue around a corner was the scheme that I had on mine.

I think it was much later in the early 1980's that the colour scheme was altered for some parts of the world.

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
bhearn wrote:
Yes, blue opposite white is the original color scheme used for Rubik's Cubes made by Ideal Toy Corp. in 1980.
I really wonder why they changed. Interesting. After posting, I did find these links:

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Western_color_scheme
Image

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Japanese_Color_Scheme
Image

Which contain some very interesting history. Still it doesn't say much about why (or who) decided to make the change? I'm now curious what color scheme Rubik himself used on his original prototypes.

Per this site:
http://www.rubiks.com/world/history.php

I take it this is an image of the first working prototype.
Image

Sadly it doesn't look like its stickered yet. Though the two white face centers and the dots on a few faces look... interesting.

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
wwwmwww wrote:
Is there a standard for the dodecahedron... or other shapes?

MF8 seems to have standardized the dodecahedron color scheme. I own 8 such puzzles and they all have the exact same color scheme. Bo Hu's simulator uses the same scheme, thankfully.

Attachment:
mf8_dodecahedrons_csw.jpg
mf8_dodecahedrons_csw.jpg [ 172.91 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]


As for cubes, I have some old Rubik's-brand cubes [2x2 through 5x5] from the 1980's. They all have white/red/yellow around one corner, with green opposite red, blue opposite white, and orange opposite yellow. Absolutely hideous!

_________________
Call me Seth :)

Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet
Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Puzzlemad wrote:
That is odd!
I have a book about the history of the cube and it says that the initial production run was in 1977 by Politechnika (with 5000 only made). This was called "The Magic Cube"
The photo that I have of one of those very first cubes shows that the colour scheme that we are used to is correct.
There is an entry here in the museum:
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=2968
Image
Yes... looks like blue is next to white. Interesting...

Looks like someone at Ideal:
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=903
Image
may have made an "error" and later been "corrected". At least that is a guess as to how two schemes got introduced.

Someone should ask Rubik himself if there is an interesting story here.

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Somewhere Else
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Rubik - or was it someone else? - favored the white opposite yellow scheme, because the difference in color between each opposite pair of sides is yellow. But I can't seem to find it now...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
wwwmwww wrote:
Image
Yes... looks like blue is next to white. Interesting...
Looking closer isn't that yellow AND blue next to white? If so it appears the original Politechnika color scheme may have been something totally different.

Puzzlemad is this the same picture you are refering to?

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
themathkid wrote:
MF8 seems to have standardized the dodecahedron color scheme. I own 8 such puzzles and they all have the exact same color scheme. Bo Hu's simulator uses the same scheme, thankfully.

Meffert's has their own 12 color scheme that is different from MF8's (doesn't use gray, has 3 shades of blue). I don't know it off the top of my head but can post about it after I get home from work and grab one of my Megaminxes or 12 color Impossiball. I prefer it over MF8's due to it having been used years before MF8 started theirs. But I also know that the old Tomy Megaminx used a different scheme too but since I don't have one I don't know it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
I prefer the MF8 dodecahedron color scheme, but the next question is about a standard icosahedron color scheme. Is there any color scheme that multiple people have agreed on? Back to the dodecahedrons, there are multiple standard color schemes for them, so that is a given fact. But there are no standard color schemes for icosahedron puzzles as far as I know, and what about the Tuttminx? Is there a standard color scheme for that puzzle? I want to know if there is one that people have agreed upon.

_________________
For all of you that bought a KO 8x8x8: You should have bought a V8!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
Volitar Prime wrote:
Meffert's has their own 12 color scheme that is different from MF8's (doesn't use gray, has 3 shades of blue). I don't know it off the top of my head but can post about it after I get home from work and grab one of my Megaminxes or 12 color Impossiball.
Here is Meffert's 12 color scheme which was used for the tiled Megaminx, stickered Megaminx, Holey Megaminx, 12 color Impossiball, Pyraminx Crystal, and I think something else that I can't recall at this time.

Around the white side, going clockwise is green, aqua, tan, light blue, and purple.

Opposite of white is yellow.

Around the yellow side, going clockwise is light green, pink, blue, red, and orange.

Light green is opposite of green, pink of opposite of purple, blue is opposite of light blue, red is opposite of tan, and orange is opposite of aqua.

Since this was used for so many puzzles and was used years before MF8 came up with theirs I consider it to be the original 12 color scheme and sticker most of my puzzles this way, when I can get the stickers for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
wwwmwww wrote:
Puzzlemad is this the same picture you are refering to?

Carl

No! The picture I have is published in a book on the history of the cube. It shows the picture on a box made of card. I am not keen on reproducing by scanning the book because it may be a copyrighted picture.

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
According to this thread it seems that the early Politechnika were somewhat random when it came to color schemes:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24183


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Puzzlemad wrote:
No! The picture I have is published in a book on the history of the cube. It shows the picture on a box made of card. I am not keen on reproducing by scanning the book because it may be a copyrighted picture.
Understood. Something akin to this then?

Image
Image
Image
Image

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:44 pm
themathkid wrote:
As for cubes, I have some old Rubik's-brand cubes [2x2 through 5x5] from the 1980's. They all have white/red/yellow around one corner, with green opposite red, blue opposite white, and orange opposite yellow. Absolutely hideous!

Yes, that is hideous. Are you sure about that? The only Ideal cubes I have ever seen have blue opposite white, red opposite orange, green opposite yellow. Anything else is just uncivilized. :) Oh, and it's red/green/blue around one corner, naturally.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
wwwmwww wrote:
Understood. Something akin to this then?

Image
Image

Carl

Those are the images I am thinking of! I hadn't realised they were in the museum!

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
I think it's odd that it shows 7 colors on the scrambled cube.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Standard Color Schemes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:44 pm
Ha! How about that. The two green/white corners are also impossible.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group