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 Post subject: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:48 am 
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The Radiolarian puzzles have all been made, but my first version of the Radio Star (Radiolarian 11) was a total failure.
I started it in September of 2012, so I've been working on it on and off for over a year.
Here's the thread on the topic of the failed first version:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25248&hilit=radiolarian+11

The new second version is a success!


Video uploading here.

There's a long, long story behind this one. I did record some making-of material that I may cut into a short video sometime. The sad truth is that there may be more time in this puzzle than I put into the Petaminx.

I call it the Radio Star because this puzzle is to an icosahedron what a StarMinx is to a dodecahedron. It is the cut depth at which the corners have fully disappeared.

As you can see, the puzzle is huge. The edge lengths are 102mm. It uses the "Shells on Rails" mechanism, which combines traditional shells with void-style rails internally. This allows me to build a much deeper puzzle internally for larger stable corners, and then go shallower on the outside using shells.

Here's a part that illustrates the concept.
Image

The Radiolarians have had two types of jumbling. This one is the first that I have noticed the ability to double-jumble. Both types of jumbling can be set up on opposing faces before being jumbled simultaneously. I'm sure Radiolarian 10 must also have this ability. There are pictures of this below.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:00 am 
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A must have for any collection.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:19 am 
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What's that popping sound?

Oh, wait, I know, that's the sound of all the world's twistypuzzlers minds exploding :shock: .

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:42 am 
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I think a full collection photo is a must now!

All of these puzzles are stunning but this one is particularly attractive! But beside the beauty, I do actually wonder whether this is solvable by a human?

I am on a quest for another "special" Shapeways puzzle and wonder whether any of the Radiolarians might be suitable - are they beyond my meagre abilities?

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:15 am 
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It's nice to see improvements to an already fantastic puzzle. Also, it made me remember that song......

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:49 am 
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Unbelievable.
This might be my favorite twisty puzzle.
Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:01 am 
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JasonSmith wrote:
Here's a part that illustrates the concept.
Image


Putting this together must have been a beast! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:36 am 
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Yikes, gulp, swoon. Consider my ghast well and truly flabbered. That must have been expensive to print. Will you post a family picture or video?

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:16 am 
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I'm wondering anyone, except Jason, will collect the whole Radiolarian series......

This one is really beautiful and makes me want to have one! But I don't think I can solve this one so may be I should just give up.....but still curious how much will be for printing one of it~


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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:24 am 
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huge puzzle! how much does it cost??

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Oh wow.. this looks SO amazing! :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:55 pm 
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JasonSmith wrote:
Here's a part that illustrates the concept.
Image
I haven't even seen the video yet and this one image alone makes me want this one. I love new mechanisms and this one piece alone tells me this is new and original... a blending of mechs that I've never seen blended before. A true first... Congrats. A true work of engineering and art.

Wow!!!
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:38 pm 
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so when can we see the complete family portrait?
what an epic achievement!


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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Derek Bosch wrote:
so when can we see the complete family portrait?
what an epic achievement!
I think we can demand better than a portrait: When can we see them in person! Sounds like it is time for another SF meet up!

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:59 am 
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Mod this into a dodecahedron, and call it the master brillic in disguise!

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:06 am 
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DLitwin wrote:
Derek Bosch wrote:
so when can we see the complete family portrait?
what an epic achievement!
I think we can demand better than a portrait: When can we see them in person! Sounds like it is time for another SF meet up!

Dave

A meetup with the Radiolarian series would be amazing :D

This puzzle is beautiful and based on your description of a deep rails mechanism and then making the puzzle shallowed with a shells mechanism on top... That sounds like one of the most complex twisty puzzles mechanisms ever conceived. This is also one of the biggest puzzle prints. I think this is about the same size as Drew's Starminx II and it looks to be bigger than Oskar's 17x17x17. I hope all of that hollow space in the center cut down on costs!

Very amazing achievement!

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:33 am 
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Hmmm.... I thought that in general the rails mechanism didn't support jumbling. Yet this puzzle jumbles. I'm going to assume the inner most rail layer never jumbles and that all the jumbling take place in the upper shell layers. Is that correct? '

This makes me wonder if this puzzle is identical (solving wise) to one built using entirely a shells approach. I'm not saying one approach is any better then the other. I just want to know if they produce the same puzzle. Asked another way, are there states that a shells only Radio Star could reach that this Radio Star can not due to the rail layer not being able to jumble?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:42 pm 
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If it takes months or years to save up for a print of this, it may well be worth it. I think it would be unfair to ask Jason to put this on Shapeways as a commercial product without some kind of purchase commitment from enough of us to make it worthwhile.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Not just the designing of this puzzle is a triumphant undertaking, but assembling, and stickering this beast! These pictures are what I will now use as the pinnacle of puzzles when a non-puzzler asks me about what's out there beyond the RC

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:52 am 
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Everyone, thank you for replying to say you enjoyed it!

This may be my favorite Radiolarian. I have other favorites, but this one is taking the cake right now!

The rails are allowed to jumble in this puzzle. I only constrain them in the deep cut puzzles. So this one should be allowed to jumble away! But the fact that it uses rails means it shouldn't block due to internal jumbling because it doesn't have layers with shallow enough cuts to change the jumbling.

Carl, I am THINKING that this puzzle will only be different from a shells mechanism in the fact that shallower jumbling layers are eliminated. So that COULD mean that some moves would be blocked on a shells mech that are not blocked here. Very interesting topic to explore sometime...

I need to analyze exactly when jumbling changes appear in the Radiolarians...

rubikcollector123 wrote:
Mod this into a dodecahedron, and call it the master brillic in disguise!

That's an amazing idea. If only I had structured my caps a bit differently.

Derek Bosch wrote:
so when can we see the complete family portrait?
what an epic achievement!


One is on loan to a friend, so I'll wait until it is returned.

grigr wrote:
huge puzzle! how much does it cost??


It was unfortunately very expensive. I'll say it was [redacted]. Not so bad as what I am now preparing to print next by a long shot, but still pretty bad.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Now I'm confused. I thought the rails mechanism disallowed jumbling to begin with? Or is there some way you've found to block jumbling when you don't want it?


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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:29 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Asked another way, are there states that a shells only Radio Star could reach that this Radio Star can not due to the rail layer not being able to jumble?
JasonSmith wrote:
Carl, I am THINKING that this puzzle will only be different from a shells mechanism in the fact that shallower jumbling layers are eliminated. So that COULD mean that some moves would be blocked on a shells mech that are not blocked here. Very interesting topic to explore sometime...
I was thinking after I has posted that it was possible that things could be the other way around. That maybe this puzzle could reach more state do to the lack of some internal layers bandaging in say a shells only mechanism. I too would love to see this explored more.
JasonSmith wrote:
It was unfortunately very expensive. I'll say it was [redacted].
Still it costs nothing to put it on Shapeways. I doubt I could afford it anytime soon but I'd love to at least have the opportunity to own one someday.
JasonSmith wrote:
The rails are allowed to jumble in this puzzle. I only constrain them in the deep cut puzzles.
Interesting. I think I'm in the same boat as Jared at the moment. My understanding was that the rails mechanism NEEDED to be constrained in order to keep the slice layer from becoming misaligned and thus blocking other turns. Could you make a Jumbling Little Chop with this mechanism if you want to?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:40 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Interesting. I think I'm in the same boat as Jared at the moment. My understanding was that the rails mechanism NEEDED to be constrained in order to keep the slice layer from becoming misaligned and thus blocking other turns. Could you make a Jumbling Little Chop with this mechanism if you want to?

Carl

I don't think so. I guess I shouldn't be the one responding to this but from what I understand, a jumbling little chop cannot be made with the mechanism because the inner rails have to have some form of misalignment mechanism in order to prevent them from misaligning. This mechanism, from what I think, is what is preventing jumbling also. However, in the Radio Star this misalignment mechanism internally isn't needed because pieces from the rails layer inside are being extended to the surface of the puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:32 pm 
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JasonSmith wrote:
....
This may be my favorite Radiolarian. ....
I can fully understand this.
Having failed first and then achieved something as wonderful and beautiful as this: What a great pride you must feel!
What a dedication, what an achievement! :D :D :D
You have my full admiration.

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 Post subject: Re: The Radio Star (Jason's Radiolarian 11) Version 2
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:48 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
I don't think so. I guess I shouldn't be the one responding to this but from what I understand, a jumbling little chop cannot be made with the mechanism because the inner rails have to have some form of misalignment mechanism in order to prevent them from misaligning. This mechanism, from what I think, is what is preventing jumbling also. However, in the Radio Star this misalignment mechanism internally isn't needed because pieces from the rails layer inside are being extended to the surface of the puzzle.
That makes sense. Thanks.

Carl

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