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 Post subject: Re: Crazy2Face Earth Solution
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:59 am 
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psi wrote:
themathkid wrote:
I would rank the puzzles as follows:
Both Jupiter --> Both Uranus --> Neptune --> Saturn --> Mars (WG) --> Mars (BG) --> Venus --> Mercury --> Earth

Well, at least this explains why I felt to be landed "on another planet" :D switching from Uranus to Mercury. I'm finding it really tough, and not only the final circle corners (which i'm working on now) but also solving the rest has not been trivial at all.

After finding Crazy333 Mercury extremely easy, and Crazy2face Mercury absolutely impossible (I solved all but the circle corners at one point but now can't get the outer corners either), this difficulty ranking gives me hope that perhaps I can still have some fun with this kit. Abandoning Mercury. Neptune, here we come.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:25 pm 
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crazy 2-face chart.jpg
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For those that are wondering what to do after the initial 11 puzzles, I have gone through rline's original chart [above] and translated the alphabet / numerical names into Burgo's planet nomenclature below. Of the original 26 rline came up with:

- 11 of these are the "standard" Crazy2Face series with only one 2-face per puzzle
- 8 are "2L" versions - two adjacent 2-faces per puzzle
- 5 are "2N" versions - two non-adjacent 2-faces per puzzle
- 2 were duplicates / mirrors

You'll all be pleased to know that Mercury does not make another appearance! On the other hand, all the 2N puzzles looks absolutely fiendish - all 8 corners will have a 2-face side to contend with. Blocking will be horrendous, I'm sure! I'm predicting either Venus(2N) or Saturn(2N) to be the most difficult. The 2L series is not nearly as menacing. I suspect the Jupiter/Uranus/Neptune (2L) versions will still be relatively easy with reduction to regular 3x3x3. Saturn(2L) and Mars(2L)(B) will probably function more like a Mars(BG) from the original 11. Earth(2L) looks very challenging, however.

Code:
A - 000020 - Mercury
B - 000120 - Earth
C - 000121 - Neptune
D - 010120 - Mars(BG)
E - 010121 - Uranus(BGO)
F - 110121 - Jupiter(RBGO)
G - 001020 - Venus
H - 001120 - Mars(WG)
I - 001121 - Uranus(WGO)
J - 011120 - Saturn
K - 011121 - Jupiter(BWGO)

L - 000220 - Earth(2L)
M - 000221 - Neptune(2L)(O)
N - 010220 - Mars(2L)(B)
O - 010221 - Uranus(2L)(BO)
P - 100221 - Uranus(2L)(RO)
S - 011220 - Saturn(2L)(BW)
T - 011221 - Jupiter(2L)(BWO)
U - 101221 - Jupiter(2L)(RWO)

V - 002020 - Venus(2N)
W - 002120 - Mars(2N)(G)
X - 002121 - Uranus(2N)(GO)
Y - 012120 - Saturn(2N)(BG)
Z - 012121 - Jupiter(2N)(BGO)

Q - 001220 - **Duplicate of N**
R - 001221 - **Mirror of O**

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Hopefully I'll be ready now for the C2F Saturn. If anyone thinks that this is the wrong approach then I'd appreciate them preventing the pain before it starts! :shock:

:D :D :D
Yeeehaw! :shock: I'm not really sure that a Brit should be saying that! :oops:

Crazy2Face Saturn has bitten the dust! My wish to avoid pain was a good one! This really did come close to killing me! I'm really rather frightened to attempt any more!!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Hi Everyone,

I've put Seth's difficulty order in the 1st post. Thanks for providing us with this, it's very helpful for people. It seems that others have had a lot more difficulty with Mercury than I did, that seems to be the only real discrepency. It's prompting me to possibly make a walkthrough solve video on the weekend? Maybe it will help to make a fuller comparison of our methods?

Seth, I was wondering where you were going next.. and thanks for decoding the previos table for us! Very useful. I wasn't sure if you would stay on the Iconic series and begin messing around with some B4elements.. that could be cool too.

Your methods seem to be a lot more sequence orientated than mine, if that's the right way to say it. I relied only on short nested ideas without notes. Do you figure out your sequences on the solved puzzle first? Because I go straight into the scramble. This isn't a criticism, I'm just very interested in different people's approaches, and I'm curious how you work?

Thanks Andrea for sharing your method, and your base sequence:
(L2 U R2 U') X 2
will be very useful for developing nested sequences from. Konrad likes this sequence too, but I haven't used it much in the past. I used nested Sunes a lot because they only require 2 faces, but your technique avoids blocking a bit more efficiently under some conditions. It could be very useful in some of the difficult variants.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Yeeehaw! :shock: I'm not really sure that a Brit should be saying that! :oops:
How funny! I want to hear it though. "Yeeehaw!" with a British accent.

Puzzlemad wrote:
Crazy2Face Saturn has bitten the dust! My wish to avoid pain was a good one! This really did come close to killing me! I'm really rather frightened to attempt any more!!
Congratulations Kevin! Will you join me on Neptune?

Burgo wrote:
It's prompting me to possibly make a walkthrough solve video on the weekend? Maybe it will help to make a fuller comparison of our methods?
This would be great! One request—take it nice and slow, so I can hopefully keep up. :)

Quote:
Your methods seem to be a lot more sequence orientated than mine, if that's the right way to say it. I relied only on short nested ideas without notes. Do you figure out your sequences on the solved puzzle first? Because I go straight into the scramble. This isn't a criticism, I'm just very interested in different people's approaches, and I'm curious how you work?
This "short nested ideas" is what I would like to see mentioned and explained in your walkthrough.

Now that I've abandoned Mercury and moved on to Neptune I don't know if
Burgo wrote:
Thanks Andrea for sharing your method, and your base sequence:
(L2 U R2 U') X 2
will be very useful for developing nested sequences from. Konrad likes this sequence too, but I haven't used it much in the past. I used nested Sunes a lot because they only require 2 faces, but your technique avoids blocking a bit more efficiently under some conditions. It could be very useful in some of the difficult variants.
will be helpful now, but it wouldn't hurt to experiment a little. Thanks. Burgo, "nested Sunes"??? How does that work? What is an example? Is this something you use in your C2f Mercury solves?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
Seth, I was wondering where you were going next.. and thanks for decoding the previous table for us! Very useful. I wasn't sure if you would stay on the Iconic series and begin messing around with some B4elements.. that could be cool too.

Unless starts posting their own interesting creations, I think I'm going to work through all the different combinations of just 0/1/2 faces for the time being. Probably just 2L --> 2N --> 3L --> 3N --> 4L --> 4N --> 5N. It's not nearly as many as it sounds - there are only 26 puzzles beyond the "standard" 11. Of these 26, a staggering 14 have Jupiter or Uranus as a base and appear to be pretty boring / worth skipping, leaving only about 12 potentially interesting ones. After those [or maybe during], I want to try mixing in some 3-faces [especially the Crazy3Face(2L)Saturn(RBO)(3Y) that you and Marty were working on at one point].

I am very interested in the constraining centers, but I'm waiting for the expansion kit before I start playing with them. The 5-centers just seem to make things easier, so I'm not at a point where I need / want those yet. I'm honestly not that interested in creating bandaged layouts on my own. If others dream them up and post them, I'll probably jump in and try solving them, but creating them is just not my thing. I'm honestly overwhelmed by the possibilities. Same thing happened on the CubeTwist Bandaged Cube DIY kit. I made a few of the "classic" puzzles, but then never made my own. *shrug*

Burgo wrote:
Your methods seem to be a lot more sequence orientated than mine, if that's the right way to say it. I relied only on short nested ideas without notes. Do you figure out your sequences on the solved puzzle first? Because I go straight into the scramble. This isn't a criticism, I'm just very interested in different people's approaches, and I'm curious how you work?

Are you saying my methods are algorithm heavy? If so, I'm surprised! Everything I've used for the Cf2 series to date has been built from nothing more than EPS, CPS, and Sune [rline would be proud of me]. Aside from Mercury, I don't typically even have long sequences - there's rarely a need!

On the other hand, maybe you meant my list-y, sequential solutions that I've posted? I'm kind of obsessive with my notes, actually. Lately, I have gotten in the habit of taking detailed notes on all the puzzles I solve. I write everything in a graph paper composition book so that I always have all my notes for all my puzzles at my disposal. I write down EVERYTHING: gut reactions before solving, diagrams, musings on relationships with other puzzles, piece solve order, discussions on possible parities and why they occur, permutations in cycle notation, etc. Unless the solve is unusually short, I will usually neatly summarize my findings with a solution outline at the end in very clear, step-by-step order. The outlines I've been posting are very rough versions of these. Sometimes, though, the write-up takes longer than the puzzle! I tell myself the notes are so that I can easily come back to a puzzle months from now if needed, but really I think it stems from a compulsive need to make lists. :lol: It really does help mentally solidify everything to put it on paper, though.

As for how I solve, I will usually just scramble straight away. I don't try to find sequences beforehand, but I do like to have a general idea of what order I'm going to work in, though. I sometimes use simulators for inspiration, but only when I get stuck. I'm much more apt to start translating small sequences into cycle notation and working with numbers / letters instead of diagrams or even the puzzle itself. I feel very comfortable in this setting and have even 'solved' a few puzzles without a physical version or simulator in front of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:13 pm 
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themathkid wrote:
I'm much more apt to start translating small sequences into cycle notation and working with numbers / letters instead of diagrams or even the puzzle itself. I feel very comfortable in this setting and have even 'solved' a few puzzles without a physical version or simulator in front of me.
:shock:
Wha?!? Could you give an example of this? I have no idea what you are saying here. But it sounds very very impressive. Perhaps that is why you have solved all the C2f planets, and I am only on Neptune. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:15 am 
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Hi Seth,

It’s just my attempt to see what you’re doing. It’s hard to really see our individual approaches through forum posts, we get an idea, but it lacks some understanding of the process. Which is what interests me most.

We’re all faced with the same, quite fixed, set of parameters, what interests me is all the different approaches, and amazingly, how we get some form of personality coming into our solving. I would call myself a bit more of a `run at a gate` solver.. I’ll punch my way through a problem, and not really look back, particularly in the area of making notes.

I’ve tried making notes, but later when I read them, I can barely make out anything, sometimes I don’t even know what puzzle they’re from. If it weren’t for the `order` of posting on the forum, I’d hardly have anything, solving history wise. It’s funny, because I have a few things, but it’s very random. That C2f Mercury sequence is the perfect example, I knew what I did, but I couldn’t write out the sequence until I twisted the puzzle again.

I don’t think your solving is `sequence heavy`, as much as it has much more structure than mine, and you seem to have more premeditated sequential applications of the smaller elements.. call them sequences or not.

You answered more of what I was talking about in your last paragraph. I too, really found it interesting how you said you develop these linked sequences in your head without the puzzle. I might be able to think about the types of things I might do, and how I might use some method, but I very much rely on having the puzzle and twisting the object.

Interesting conversation.

It might be useful, as you progress through 2N > 3L > 3N > 4L > 4N > 5, to record the available Crazy2face puzzles without duplicates and mirrors (maybe you could send me a few lists by PM), and I can record them in `smaller` diagrams and put them in the first post. You’re right about them being a limited set, and about the missing planets, but they will still be quite a few.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:23 am 
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themathkid wrote:
Lately, I have gotten in the habit of taking detailed notes on all the puzzles I solve. I write everything in a graph paper composition book so that I always have all my notes for all my puzzles at my disposal. I write down EVERYTHING: gut reactions before solving, diagrams, musings on relationships with other puzzles, piece solve order, discussions on possible parities and why they occur, permutations in cycle notation, etc. Unless the solve is unusually short, I will usually neatly summarize my findings with a solution outline at the end in very clear, step-by-step order. The outlines I've been posting are very rough versions of these. Sometimes, though, the write-up takes longer than the puzzle! I tell myself the notes are so that I can easily come back to a puzzle months from now if needed, but really I think it stems from a compulsive need to make lists. :lol: It really does help mentally solidify everything to put it on paper, though.

I also write notes but only in retrospect after I've solved a puzzle. Occasionally if I'm working out a 3cycle I have to take notes on what I do and what pieces move. But really all I'm trying is to give me something to come back to if I revisit a puzzle.

You in the other hand produce something which sounds amazing. I would live to see your notes if they could be scanned to PDF! It might even give me instructions on how I should go about approaching a new puzzle. This is my weak point - I really don't know how to start afresh without help. So if you could this might really help me and maybe several others!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:26 am 
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Obviously I've been hardly contributing at all to this thread, but I just want to say I'm super-happy that the B4 kit has enabled people to take a good look at these 2face cubes. Me personally, I've only tackled jupiter and uranus, once, and it was ages ago. I feel really out of the loop, but I hope to get back into it soon. :)

(I've recently filmed what can only be described as a Walkthrough Fail(!) made from a crazy jupiter base and a bunch of bandaged bits, and I'm hoping to make that public soon.)

themathkid wrote:
The 5-centers just seem to make things easier

Why is that? :?

themathkid wrote:
Everything I've used for the Cf2 series to date has been built from nothing more than EPS, CPS, and Sune [rline would be proud of me]

Wow, I'm more than proud, I'm completely amazed at how quickly you've done them. You're a solving machine :lol:

themathkid wrote:
I write down EVERYTHING: gut reactions before solving, diagrams, musings on relationships with other puzzles, piece solve order, discussions on possible parities and why they occur, permutations in cycle notation, etc.

Seeing this would be gold! I'm beggin you to scan it in for a puzzle, the whole thing, from gut reaction to final copy etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:06 am 
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Hi Crazy solvers out there,
I have nothing to contribute really, but I want to express my pure admiration for those who have.
Especially what Seth told about his methods in general and his solution notebook sounds amazing.
I have to admit that I did not look at any details of the described methods yet, but browsing through the post on a high level tells about an incredible dedication.

Because I got mine as a (unexpected and surprising) gift from Burgo (I wrote about it here) I thought that this precious gift deserves some nice boxes that look a bit better than plastic bags:

Image

Four stackable boxes out of acrylic glass, don't they display the treasure well?
(No thief would recognize, though, that it is valuable. "Oh a broken toy", he would say, "but the boxes look nice" :lol: )

The Crazy2face is a Jupiter (BROG). That was really straight forward to solve. I have built, scrambled and solved it last Tuesday, November 5th. I had a few terrible days before:

When I wrote
Quote:
The kit arrived while I'm reconstructing my Windows 8 laptop (It came back from a repair in the original factory state). That was a difficult decision: Should I have a close look at the kit or finish my computer project?
As you can see, something works already on this laptop (I'm sitting at it), but there remains a lot to do.
And a lot more remains to do with the kit.
I had not the slightest idea what lay before me. On Monday November 2nd my Windows 8 system looked fine and I downloaded 8.1. On Tuesday evening my 8.1 looked fine and I wanted to make a full system backup. Some strange Windows error message informed me that I could not do this and when I tried to overcome the problem, a system crash brought me back to ground zero :wink:
Isn't it a perfect timing for a system crash, when you are at a full system image backup?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Per request, I took some pictures of my notebook. These are my notes for Crazy2Face Mercury. This is one of the most difficult puzzles I've solved, so please don't think that every entry is this long! But the style and flow are similar from puzzle to puzzle. Also, my pen exploded in the middle of this solve, so that's why there's all the ink splotches. PS - I will address other comments in a separate post.

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Last edited by themathkid on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Holy cow :shock:

That is amazing. Seriously. Yes, I read all of each page. I'm in awe. It makes my excel spreadsheet look ridiculous :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Crazy2face Mercury

Done it! Finally I solved it! Satisfaction. :D :mrgreen:
This really has been long, I did't expect it to be so hard especially knowing the relative simplicity of the Crazy 3x3x3 Mercury version.
But I know I'm not a good solver (for this reason I'm happy).


themathkid wrote:
Per request, I took some pictures of my notebook. These are my notes for Crazy2Face Mercury.

Very nice!!! I will read them and improve my solution, I did't have time to study your sequences yet.

rline wrote:
That is amazing. Seriously. Yes, I read all of each page. I'm in awe. It makes my excel spreadsheet look ridiculous

Exactly, and the same applies to my notes :oops: but I decided to post them anyway.


As I see people interested and talking about notes I decided to paste here also mine.
Please do not kill me, for sure they are confused and probably there are much more faster and smarter paths. Especially first points (a,b,c) are not clear and detailed, but those should be the easiest steps and I did them basically trying intuitive stuff.
For points d and e I have to thank Burgo and Andrea, I simply tried to apply their ideas.


Anyway this is roughly what I did to solve C2f-Mercury:
[SPOILER]


a. Orient yellow face edges and solve circle edges
- At first step restore edges orbits, do not care for corners
- To place corners, when they are oriented use cuboid algs on U=Yellow face

b. Solve yellow external edges and yellow corners, U=Yellow
- Orient corners: used some intuition, but still some cases seemed not obvious.
Once oriented corners can be swapped with cuboid algs, this will swap also two edges
- corners can be swapped U/D with R2UR2U' y' R2U'R2UR2
- e. edges can be swapped on U with R2U2R2U2R2U2 and with R2UR2UR2U2R2U2R2UR2U'R2
- e. edges can be swapped U/D with MD2M'

At this point all circle edges have to be solved, and all yellow face layer has to be solved

c. Solve all external edges, U=White
1. Solve M e.edges with EPS + some trick:
- Attach one M e.edge to a yellow D corner turning E (after an EPS eventually)
- Put this corner/edge out on U with EPS FR'F'R and keep them matched.
- Use this corner hole in D to place 3 e.edges with normal EPS
- Place last corner/e.edge attached in first step with EPS
2. Solve U e.edges with easy orientation + sune for perms

At this point only U corners and circle corners need to be solved.

d. Solve bottom circle corners (maybe this step can be done before point c)
Key move is: [U=White] RL'U2M2U2M (swap UF c.c. with UD c.c. 2 at time) then fix D edges w/ x'M2U2M2 (burgo)
Steps are:
- Form two paired color c.c. on F face top collar using Sunes
- Swap putting them on bottom with above procedure

Now F2L are totally solved.

e. Solve other circle corners
Key idea (Andrea): bring a corner to Yellow face with CPS_C = (L2 U R2 U')x2 then swap c.c.
CPS_C is basically a CPS for cuboids which 3-cycles corners keeping their orientation fixed.
1. With U=Yellow do CPS_C to bring a c.c. from the White to the Yellow face
2. Turn cube upside down: x2 now U=White
One yellow corner will be on white face (obviously)
The goal, with U=White, is to have this yellow corner on ULB and on opposite UFR corner a wrong c.c. on collar (F/R faces). Plan CPS_C on point 1. to have this configuration, with last c.c. more applications of CPS_C can be needed.
3. Cycle the c.c.:
- Move D to bring c.c. out of DFR (if needed)
- Do an EPS to bring another c.c. from UFR to DFR (i.e. if c.c. on F is wrong do R'FRF')
- Turn D to put the other c.c. on DFR (swaps the two c.c. on D)
- Undo with EPS'
4. Restore yellow layer cycling corners with CPS_C [U=Yellow]
5. Repeat

f. Solve the top four outer corners as a normal RC, U=White
This is easy, just do not touch D layer (cube is now reduced to a circle cube).
- Normal CPS works for cycling corners
- Sune U2 ASune U2 for orientation.

[/SPOILER]


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
You in the other hand produce something which sounds amazing. I would love to see your notes if they could be scanned to PDF! It might even give me instructions on how I should go about approaching a new puzzle. This is my weak point - I really don't know how to start afresh without help. So if you could this might really help me and maybe several others!

I can maybe do this. I have a scanner, but it will take forever. I'm currently at page 102 [!] in my notebook [though I have only been keeping this notebook since this summer, so many loose-leaf notes have been lost, sadly]. It would be a biiiiig file. If you're truly interested, let me know via PM or Facebook.

rline wrote:
themathkid wrote:
The 5-centers just seem to make things easier

Why is that? :?

Too much freedom. Even one 5-face allows you to manipulate a large percentage of the circle parts without any of the normal tricks and techniques associated with puzzles. You effectively reduce some of the circle parts to 5x5x5 centers [I believe that's why Burgo chose the name 5-face, even]. Techniques for 5x5x5 centers are much simpler than circle parts on normal crazy puzzle.

robertpauljr wrote:
themathkid wrote:
I'm much more apt to start translating small sequences into cycle notation and working with numbers / letters instead of diagrams or even the puzzle itself. I feel very comfortable in this setting and have even 'solved' a few puzzles without a physical version or simulator in front of me.
:shock:
Wha?!? Could you give an example of this? I have no idea what you are saying here. But it sounds very very impressive. Perhaps that is why you have solved all the C2f planets, and I am only on Neptune. :lol:

Basically, you just assign every [relevant] piece a letter or number. Then you look at a twist or sequence and watch where each piece goes. If you 3-cycle pieces A --> B --> C, then the cycle would simply be written (ABC). Once you have several different twists or sequences in cycle notation, it's very easy to study / build longer sequences by just "multiplying" the smaller sequences. For example (ABC)*(CAD) = (AB)(CD). The nice thing about this is it helps you easily figure out the even / oddness of each permutation, which is useful for fixing parities. The length of a cycle tells you how many times it must be repeated until you're back at the start. So a 3-cycle must be done 3 times return to normal. This can help in reducing complex permutations into simple, more useful ones. If you find a permutation that is two cycles of different lengths [e.g. - W = 3-cycle on one part of the puzzle + 4-cycle elsewhere], you can sometimes just repeat the whole thing several times until one of them effectively goes back to start but the other does not [e.g. W times 4 = just a 3-cycle]. Using these tools, I solved Luke's Hexoid and the latter stages of the Master Skewb without a puzzle or simulator.

psi wrote:
Done it! Finally I solved it! Satisfaction. :D :mrgreen:
This really has been long, I did't expect it to be so hard especially knowing the relative simplicity of the Crazy 3x3x3 Mercury version.
But I know I'm not a good solver (for this reason I'm happy).

Congrats! You've reached the peak! It's mostly downhill from here!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:23 am 
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Hi Friends,

I cannot solve the C2F Earth. The problem: the circle-edges.
The step before deciding to pair edges with triangles or corners with triangles.
I solved Venus, Mercury and Jupiter.
Some ideas to solve the circle edges ?


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:35 am 
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Well, for a real treat, you can now watch me have no real idea about one particular version of the crazy 2face b4 kit. Burgo cooked the puzzle up. I volunteered to be the willing victim. It's got a bit of everything: pink B4 bandaging, a 0 face, a 1 face, a C1 face, a C2 face, a C5 face, a 2 face and a red face. This is the condensed 25 minute version with the 1st 13 minutes uncut, followed by snippets of pain. The full 90 minute version will be available soon for those struggling to get to sleep. 8-)

Walkkthrough Fail! (Defeated by a Crazy 2F/B4 Cube)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:59 am 
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rline wrote:
Well, for a real treat, you can now watch me have no real idea......

followed by snippets of pain.

Welcome to my world! I don't actually need to attempt some Burgo dreamt up monster for this! I just do one of the standard C2F cubes and I'm in a whole world of pain! :lol: :lol:

robertpauljr wrote:
Congratulations Kevin! Will you join me on Neptune?

Absolutely! I want to reattempt Saturn a few more times to prove that it is not a fluke and then according to the updated difficulty list it would appear that Neptune is next. As before I'll get the standard Crazy 3x3 out first and then off we go!

Well I'm going to study those notes but have realised that my skills will never be at that level! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:39 am 
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I finally completed Saturn after realising that I had never attempted it as a Crazy333 (must have missed it) but at that stage I was committed.

I too am now ready for Neptune. at least with this one, I know I have done the Crazy333 version.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:58 am 
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I've started late, but I've now solved both uranus versions. Gotta start somewhere I guess. :roll: I think I'll follow Seth's order so it's neptune tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:48 am 
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After spending a week on Crazy2face Saturn (ended up using an algorithm to complete it) I managed to solve Crazy2face Neptune in about 10 mins. The difference being that I was able to solve it intuitively without algorithms. A much more satisfying solve in a fraction of the time! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:36 pm 
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rline wrote:
Well, for a real treat, you can now watch me have no real idea about one particular version of the crazy 2face b4 kit. Burgo cooked the puzzle up. I volunteered to be the willing victim. It's got a bit of everything: pink B4 bandaging, a 0 face, a 1 face, a C1 face, a C2 face, a C5 face, a 2 face and a red face. This is the condensed 25 minute version with the 1st 13 minutes uncut, followed by snippets of pain. The full 90 minute version will be available soon for those struggling to get to sleep. 8-)

Walkkthrough Fail! (Defeated by a Crazy 2F/B4 Cube)

That was fun! I especially liked when you got the pinks together and declared the solve complete! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:01 pm 
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I've worked through most of the 2L planets. Here are my thoughts:

(2L)Earth - Not solved yet. Very challenging [see below]
(2L)Neptune(O) - Noticeably more difficult than normal Neptune in the beginning, identical afterwards
(2L)Mars(B) - Basically normal Mars(BG)
(2L)Uranus(BO) - Easier than normal Uranus. Skip.
(2L)Uranus(RO) - Easier than normal Uranus. Skip.
(2L)Saturn(BW) - Basically normal Mars(BW) after a point.
(2L)Jupiter(BWO) - Easier than normal Jupiter. Skip.
(2L)Jupiter(RWO) - Easier than normal Jupiter. Skip.

I'm finding (2L)Earth to be a great challenge. Mercury and Venus do not have 2L versions, so it's the only 2L possible for the reduction to circle cube planets [I don't do Mars this way - some of you may, though]. Lots of blocking, as with all C2f puzzles with two or more 2-faces. I doubt my method for the standard Earth will be usable because of the loss of 2 "good" corners. It was hard enough finding a way to manipulate CCs with just 4 good corners, so this will take some thought. I'm thinking I may need a dual reduction. Don't hold me to that term - I don't know what else to call it. Solve inner and outer edges like you're doing a circle cube reduction and then switch to corner pairing like a reduction to regular cube solve.

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Last edited by themathkid on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:48 am 
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I uploaded my Crazy2face Mercury walkthrough solve:

http://youtu.be/bmped9Nfm1M
PS, when I re-watched the video I noticed that I forgot to demonstrate flipping edges in the LL for matching up CC positions if you need to.. so a combination of Sunes + flipping edges will get you what you want :) .

I also forgot to mention it at the time Seth (a few posts ago), but the Crazy3face is no longer a separate `puzzle type` under the new nomenclature, it has been absorbed by the CrazyB4cube puzzle type.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:25 am 
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I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock: I think I hate my creation... I'm just terrible at this sort of thing. I will say it was basically the same as crazy neptune once I got the blue white red block complete. But what an ordeal to get that done. I'm honestly not sure that I want to keep going through the 2face series. And Seth, if you're saying some of the 2Ns are horrible, I've got no hope whatsoever!

I'm going to watch Burgo's mercury walkthrough now, cause there's not a shred of possibility I'd ever get that on my own :lol:

EDIT: Watched it. I agree with myself. There wasn't a shred of possibility I would have gotten it. That's just amazing, Burgo...

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:24 am 
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rline wrote:
I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock:

I solved the Crazy2face Neptune with the same strategy viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25893&p=308254#p308254
I think that themathkid and AndyChilly (10 minutes solve) have a better strategy. I hope they can share the solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:32 am 
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Dreiser wrote:
rline wrote:
I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock:

I solved the Crazy2face Neptune with the same strategy viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25893&p=308254#p308254
I think that themathkid and AndyChilly (10 minutes solve) have a better strategy. I hope they can share the solution.

Yes, I used the same method as you. But:

Quote:
First I solve the green branded inner and outer edges. That's interesting but not too difficult.

The 3 yellow branded inner corner are the second step. That's very difficult for me.

My situation was the reverse of this! Most of the time I spent was on getting the inner and outer edges of that block together. I found the corners simple.

I'm having to suspend belief on Andy's 10 minute solve. :lol: If that's genuine I would love to know the method!

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 Post subject: Crazy2Face Neptune Solution
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:10 am 
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I would say Crazy2Face Neptune is tricky but not difficult. The strategy is exactly the same as Crazy3x3x3 Plus Neptune, but the blocking can be tricky [more so than other C2F series in the original 11].

I'm assuming you're all taking a reduction to RC approach. If so, you'll start by building a 2x2x2 corner block where all the 0-faces meet. The problem is that if you're frequently switching between these three 0-faces, the blocking hits you in the face. If you accidentally store a 2-face edge where the red/blue edge should be, suddenly you can't turn one of the other 0-faces. The corners are just as bad.

The way around this is to only ever store fully circled pieces (non 2-face pieces) in this area when building your block. In the image below, all pieces that have been circled should never have 2-face parts during this part of the solve. [Forgive the horrible image quality - I'm limited to Microsoft Paint!].

Attachment:
neptune.JPG
neptune.JPG [ 15.5 KiB | Viewed 3992 times ]


[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Neptune Solution Outline
Hold white at U, red at F.

1. Position any non 2-face parts at the black circles in the diagram above.
2. Position white circle edges correctly where red/white and blue/white edges will eventually go.
3. On the other side of the cube, pair the red/white and blue/white edges with the red and blue circle edges respectively. Position them on the U layer so that turning U will pair them with the white circle edges. Make sure there is a non 2-face corner between them before you do this!

4. Position the blue circle edge where the red/blue edge will eventually go.
5. On the other side of the cube, pair the red/blue edge with a red circle edge. Turn blue counterclockwise to bump the bad edge out and move in the red/blue edge. Undo your blue turn. All three edges should now be complete.

6. Find your red/blue/white corner. If it's correctly positioned, bump it out of place. Turn U' and then use the 1- and 2-faces to replace it with any other corner without disturbing the displaced 0-0 edge. Restore by turning U.

7. Pair the red/blue/white with its circle corners. Restore this corner to its proper position and orientation using the strategy from step #6. You'll notice that one circle corner is lost in the process. If you still have a bad CC, repeat steps 6 and 7 with a different 0-face at U.

8. With the 2x2x2 corner block solved, begin pairing circle parts on the 1- and 2-faces using the techniques from Jupiter and Uranus.

9. Solve the reduced regular cube with only 1- and 2-face turns.


[/SPOILER]

A similar approach can be used for Crazy2Face(2L) Neptune. However, this is more difficult as there are fewer "spare" non 2-face parts to use [only 2 corners!]. While the strategy remains the same between C33p, C2f and C2f(2L) versions, the loss of freedom from the addition of more 2-face parts requires a more rigorous approach. C33p can be "winged." C2f(2L) cannot. I expect Crazy2Face(3N) Neptune to be quite challenging.

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Last edited by themathkid on Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Day 3 working on (2L)Earth. I am so, so close. UPDATE: I GOT IT.

It's MUCH more difficult than Mercury!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:33 pm 
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rline wrote:
I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock: I think I hate my creation... I'm just terrible at this sort of thing. I will say it was basically the same as crazy neptune once I got the blue white red block complete. But what an ordeal to get that done.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
I completely agree! I have just solved this one for the first time! OMG what an absolutely horrendous puzzle! It took me an enormous amount of time to recreate that 2x2 block and I am not actually sure that I can repeat it! I think I'll sleep on it and give it another try tomorrow.

This has actually made me quite reticent to try the next puzzle in the set! I'm actually hoping my Eitan's star arrives soon - I'm starting to think that the star might be a nice rest and break from having my brain hurt all the time! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:21 pm 
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(2N)Venus is the new Uranus Tetrahedron. I played with it all morning and it still looks completely scrambled :(

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Crazy 2face Neptune
Puzzlemad wrote:
rline wrote:
I solved Neptune 2face just now. What a pain. :shock: I think I hate my creation... I'm just terrible at this sort of thing. I will say it was basically the same as crazy neptune once I got the blue white red block complete. But what an ordeal to get that done.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
I completely agree! I have just solved this one for the first time! What an absolutely horrendous puzzle! It took me an enormous amount of time to recreate that 2x2 block and I am not actually sure that I can repeat it! I think I'll sleep on it and give it another try tomorrow.
So how did it go?

After solving Crazy Neptune a few times, I figured I'd tyr Crazy2f Neptune. After not being able to get the 2x2x2 block, I decided to go back to Crazy Neptune and try to master that stage on that puzzle before going back to Crazy2f Neptune.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:40 am 
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Hi crazycubers,

I solved my C2F Earth

In the spoiler I tried to explain my method. I was not able to hide the links with similar techniques.
The text in spoiler shows which techniques of crazy cubes are used.

[spoiler]
The method is hard. Some hints. I hope you understand my poor english.
Method is pairing corners with triangles. Like my method solving the crazy Earth.
This method: video has bad sound quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJ51tzQim8&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLDFA3375B1B5A7DFF

The problem are the circle-edges. So I used a technique to solve 3 faces around one corner. Where one face is 0 and the other are 2 or 1.
End with red on top, yellow on right and green to front.

The technique is described here (example saturn but is the same method)
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17134&start=350
Posting from Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:23 am.
This video in better quality shows the technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv2y5KYcbSE&feature=channel


The Technique is adaptable for crazy 2 face.
Begin with white blue orange 2x2x2 subcube. Circle-edges and edges.
After this it is possible to pair edges with circle edges.

After pairing it is possible to solve it like a rubiks cube. If 3 corners are permuted with 3 cycle then you can exchange 2 x 2 corners with the white face, but the exchanged pieces must have the same circle corner colors.
E.G red instead of yellow, because yellow is bandaged.

One problem is to make the name "rline" readable. So it's necessary to turn the yellow center.

[spoiler]

This Puzzle is a challenge.
Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:04 am 
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Hi friends,
Addendum:
For C2F Earth and other I used one more sequece instead of a sune to exchange 2 edge and pair edges with circle-edges :

[spoiler]U = red
F = green
R = yellow

R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U R2 U' R2
It's a cuboid universal sequence


[spoiler]


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:17 pm 
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I've played around with all the 2N planets. Here are my thoughts:

(2N)Jupiter - Solves exactly like regular Jupiter. Skip.
(2N)Uranus - Solves exactly like regular Uranus. Skip.
(2N)Saturn - Solves exactly like Mars(BG). Skip.
(2N)Mars - Solves exactly like Mars(BG). Skip.
(2N)Venus - Absolutely freaking impossible.

All in all, a bit of a let down - 4 repeats and a monster. Hopefully 3L will be better!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:42 pm 
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I have finished the remaining groups - 3L, 3N, 4L, 4N, 5N. (2N)Venus excluded, I have now completed the entire extended planet series - all 11 original planets + 26 with at least two 2-faces. If that sounds astounding, it's not. Most all of them are completely derivative - no new methods required. It's more of a chore really. There are soooo many Jupiter and Uranus puzzles and they all solve exactly the same. Hell, they're easier because there is less pairing to do! The Mars and Saturn puzzles all end up being pretty much the same, too. Anyways, here's the full breakdown. I have bolded puzzles that might be worth your time - there's only 4 or 5. I know I say (2N)Venus is impossible, but I really think you should all at least play around with it to see what I mean, even if you don't give it a serious solve attempt.

(2L)Earth - Very challenging. More difficult than Earth, but approachable.
(2L)Neptune - Noticeably more difficult than normal Neptune in the beginning, identical afterwards
(2L)Mars - Solves like Mars(BG)
(2L)Uranus - Skip it. Solves exactly like Uranus. [There are two versions, but they solve the same]
(2L)Saturn - Solves like Mars(BW)
(2L)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves exactly like Jupiter. [There are two versions, but they solve the same]
(2N)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves exactly like Jupiter.
(2N)Uranus - Skip it. Solves exactly like Uranus.
(2N)Saturn - Solves exactly like Mars(BG).
(2N)Mars - Solves exactly like Mars(BG).
(2N)Venus - Absolutely freaking impossible.
(3L)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves like Jupiter. [There are two versions, but they solve the same.]
(3L)Uranus - Skip it. Solves exactly like Uranus.
(3L)Mars - Solves like Mars(BG).
(3L)Saturn - Solves like Mars(BG). [Maybe try one of either (3L)Mars or (3L)Saturn but not both.]
(3N)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves exactly like Jupiter.
(3N)Uranus - Skip it. Solves exactly like Uranus.
(3N)Neptune - Similar to (2L)Neptune, but more difficult
(4L)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves exactly like Jupiter.
(4L)Saturn - Feels different from other Saturns somehow. [Note: This puzzle was mass-produced]
(4N)Jupiter - Skip it. Solves exactly like Jupiter.
(4N)Uranus - Skip it. Solves exactly like Uranus.
(5N)Jupiter - Skip it. Identical to Rubik's cube since circle pieces can't scramble.

Hopefully this will keep some of y'all from wasting time on boring versions. Now to find a decent puzzle for a 3-face. Anyone have any suggestions??

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Last edited by themathkid on Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:00 pm 
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The priority given to the 3face initially (as it's own puzzle group) was the thought that it would `bring back` into the Crazy2face series the `lost planets`. Why don't you give that a try. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
The priority given to the 3face initially (as it's own puzzle group) was the thought that it would `bring back` into the Crazy2face series the `lost planets`. Why don't you give that a try. :)

I don't understand what you mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Hi Seth,

In the (2L>) group, we don’t see Mercury again. But if we add a 3face onto Crazy2face(2L) Earth, we see it. In the nomenclature it exists as CrazyB4cube Mercury 2f-Y, 3f-G

Under the newer nomenclature I decided to fold the C3f name into the CB4 name, because of the proliferation of other attributes. I thought it was cleaner with less `puzzle names`.

My question to you, after you’ve progressed through more of these, is:
Should I roll this specific group of `missing planets` back into the Crazy3face name? So for example, this puzzle would be Crazy3face(2L) Mercury 3f-G. It’s an unorthodox use of (2L), but it makes sense in the context, and the C3f indicates this attribute?

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:36 am 
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So would a (3L)Mars with one of the 2-faces turned into a 3-face become like an Earth? CrazyB4Cube Earth 2f-YG, 3f-W? Let's see. So you're kind of looking at which configurations of 1- and 2-faces have others as a subset. If you only use a single 3-face, then the following transformations would be possible:

Mercury --> no subsets
Venus --> Mercury
Earth --> Mercury
Mars --> Venus, Earth
Jupiter --> Saturn, Uranus
Saturn --> Mars
Uranus --> Neptune, Mars
Neptune --> Earth


Some initial thoughts:

- (2N)Venus --> Mercury 2f-Y, 3f-W might be interesting. Difficult, but hopefully much more approachable.

- (2L)Earth --> Mercury 2f-Y, 3f-G would probably be extremely difficult.

- Mars(WG) --> Earth 3f-Y might be solvable with normal Earth methods.
- Mars(BG) --> Venus 3f-Y looks approachable.
- (2L)Mars --> Earth 2f-G, 3f-Y looks very difficult
- (2L)Mars --> Venus 2f-Y, 3f-G looks easier than (2N)Venus but still very difficult.
- (3L)Mars --> Earth 2f-YG, 3f-W seems doable with (2L)Earth methods.
- (3L)Mars --> Venus 2f-WY, 3f-G looks like an even worse version of (2N)Venus :(

- Jupiter --> anything looks boring

- Any Saturn --> Mars seems straightforward with normal Saturn / Mars methods

- Any Uranus --> Neptune seems easier than normal Neptune???

- Any Neptune --> Earth looks like fun!



I'm gonna start off with the bolded ones. Hopefully tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:22 am 
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themathkid wrote:
So would a (3L)Mars with one of the 2-faces turned into a 3-face become like an Earth? CrazyB4Cube Earth 2f-YG, 3f-W?
That's correct. :) It's a special subset that is a `gap filler` with the C2f `missing planets`.

I'm also talking about using more than 1x 3faces. Notably.. when 2x 3faces are adjacent, those faces are permanently fixed. I'm interested to see if this begins to affect the `planet similarity`.

So: Mars --> Venus, Earth, Mercury etc.

themathkid wrote:
Some initial thoughts:
- Jupiter --> anything looks boring
I assume you mean `adding 3face/s to Jupiter` to change the planet type. We're able to turn Jupiter into many other planets, restricting it quite a bit. I think it would begin to act like `those planets`, but partially solved versions. With some added B4elements, it could get quite interesting under these circumstances.

This is slightly outside the scope of what we're dong here with this subset.. but you could use the 3face on Jupiter per se, with combinations of 2faces. Probably not hugely interesting solvingwise, unless other elements were used either though.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:29 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I assume you mean `adding 3face/s to Jupiter` to change the planet type. We're able to turn Jupiter into many other planets, restricting it quite a bit.

Yeah - I meant just for a single 3-face though. Any of the 8 Jupiter versions transforming into Saturn should still be solvable with Saturn techniques. Same with transforming to Uranus. Too much freedom to restrict it in an interesting way with a single 3-face.

Burgo wrote:
This is slightly outside the scope of what we're dong here with this subset.. but you could use the 3face on Jupiter per se, with combinations of 2faces. Probably not hugely interesting solvingwise, unless other elements were used either though.

Hmmm. I think that does have some potential. The first one that came to mind was (3N)Jupiter --> Earth 3f-YGO. Should be pretty interesting, I think. Enough freedom to breath with the 2 adjacent 1-faces, but with a good scramble, the 3-faces would be a complete mess. It would take some (3N)Neptune techniques to unlock them. Is that what you mean by changing the planet similarities?

EDIT: It occurs to me now that Neptune and Earth share a lot in common. I had not noticed this before. Earth = Mars + Neptune. I may have to revisit Earth with this in mind and try a reduction to regular cube solve.

Burgo wrote:
With some added B4elements, it could get quite interesting under these circumstances.

You're trying to kill me, aren't you! :lol:



Just thinking out loud here, but could there be an "opposite" to the 3-face? The center would turn only if it's surrounded by non-circled parts. Any circle parts would lock it. I guess it's also kind of the opposite of a 0-faces in another sense. Probably not mechanically possible since an edge / circle-edge combo takes the same shape as a 2-2 edge. The center would not be able to distinguish the two. But still - it would be cool! Maybe something that could be included on a simulator, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:19 pm 
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themathkid wrote:
You're trying to kill me, aren't you! :lol:
I think you're doing a good enough job of that yourself :lol:

themathkid wrote:
It would take some (3N)Neptune techniques to unlock them. Is that what you mean by changing the planet similarities?
Yes, sort of.. because we use techniques `across planets` anyway.

More accurately: In my nomenclature.. to name a planet that has faces other than 0 and 1.. we consider whether the face allows twisting of the Inner Circle components or not. If a face allows Inner Circle components to be displaced from the `Standard Circle Cube structure`.. we equate that particular face to a `1face`, under the `planet similarity` / `planet naming` scheme.

By `planet similarity` I'm saying that the `characteristics of the Crazy333planets` should be reflected in the corresponding C2f and CB4 `planet names`. I'm wondering if this holds true when faces are `taken out`, by adjacent 3faces and such. Some puzzles will act like partly-solved versions of the `similar Crazy333planet` because of this.

themathkid wrote:
EDIT: It occurs to me now that Neptune and Earth share a lot in common. I had not noticed this before. Earth = Mars + Neptune. I may have to revisit Earth with this in mind and try a reduction to regular cube solve.

Yes, some of us have been solving Earth with reduction to a RC for some time now.

Here's Andrea's video (part 1 of 4): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJ51tzQim8

Here's my method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlUczIy ... 7F&index=2

Andrea said in this thread also that she solved C2f Earth with reduction to an RC.

themathkid wrote:
Probably not mechanically possible since an edge / circle-edge combo takes the same shape as a 2-2 edge. The center would not be able to distinguish the two.
Yes, this is true, but anything can be possible sometimes. I've thought of a way to do it, but to consider it worthwhile.. it would be a rather big effort to hand modify.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:39 am 
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Crazy 2Face Mars WG
According to Seth this should be the next one I try! I have (as with them all) gone back to the standard planet and this time around actually thoroughly enjoyed solving the Mars. For the first time I seem to have enough experience and knowledge to solve it by reduction. Even the final Rubik cube solve is fun because it needs to be solved using domino techniques - brilliant!!

I have been working on the Mars WG puzzle for about 6 hours so far and I suspect this may be as far as I can go! :(
I solve inner edges then pair up outer edges using EPS on the zero faces and this seems to be almost impossible. I have got to the point of having 5 outer edges to place and cannot get past the bandaging caused by the 2 face pieces. The big problem is I don't seem to have any way to rotate the corners to alternative orientations.

Am I going about this the wrong way? I really don't enjoy doing non-reduction approaches!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:50 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
The big problem is I don't seem to have any way to rotate the corners to alternative orientations.
You can do the double applications of Sune for pure corner orientations, is that what you mean?

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:51 am 
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Burgo wrote:
Puzzlemad wrote:
The big problem is I don't seem to have any way to rotate the corners to alternative orientations.
You can do the double applications of Sune for pure corner orientations, is that what you mean?

What Burgo said. This technique of sune + sune mirror [or sune, U2, antisune] has proved absolutely invaluable for the C2f series. Outside of the beginner method for the 3x3x3, I rarely use sune, so this has taken some getting used to. But it's very powerful. It allows you to rotate corners using only 2 faces without disturbing edges. If there's only one bad corner, you can sometimes just do CPS to move it out of the way. It's a gamble though. You might end up with another bad one.

What I find helps for Mars / Saturn puzzles is to not put your 3 edges around a corner. Instead of UF / UR / FR, put them at UF / UR / RB [U = 0-face, F/R = 1-/2-faces]. Obviously this will change your EPS from URU'R' to UR'U'R. But this approach makes it easier to manipulate the F-face corners without disturbing your 3 edges. You shouldn't need sune often if you approach it this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:35 am 
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Burgo wrote:
Puzzlemad wrote:
The big problem is I don't seem to have any way to rotate the corners to alternative orientations.
You can do the double applications of Sune for pure corner orientations, is that what you mean?

Hmm! Lightbulb goes on! I will give this a try! I should have recalled it but it slipped my mind.

Knowing my luck I will be blocked from doing SUNE etc!

Just had a delivery so may well get side-tracked from the series a while! 8-)

Postie delivered:

    Pocket corner cube
    4x4 Mixup cube
    Dayan Gem VII
    Curvy Starminx
    Eitan's star OMG! It's gigantic! and erm... rather complicated! :shock:

Stickered the last 2 this morning and they are sitting on table next to me and shouting obscenities about my puzzle manhood!!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:42 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Knowing my luck I will be blocked from doing SUNE etc!

The sunes should be done on 1- and 2-faces, so you won't have a problem with blocking.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:45 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
I have been working on the Mars WG puzzle for about 6 hours so far and I suspect this may be as far as I can go! :(
Mars is where I got stuck. I'm travelling next week, so time to bring my Crazy 3x3 Mars and my Craxy2Face Mars. The discussion and sharing of solve ideas in this thread is productive and encourages me to try them again. I don't need a complete solution, just these hints.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:40 pm 
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themathkid wrote:
The sunes should be done on 1- and 2-faces, so you won't have a problem with blocking.

Ah yes! So I discovered. Unfortunately this has not helped entirely! I got to the point of having 4 outer edges to place and then got stuck. As I tried more and more desperate sets of setups I eventually lost track and scrambled it by accident to the point where I couldn't recover! :shock:

I'm a broken cuber! I give up. I'm not sure I can face it again!

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