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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

Andrea wrote: Today I build the c2f Jupiter. Yellow face = 2 . White face = 1 , all other faces 0. Is this correct ? I am finding the Word document that Burgo sent a link to very helpful for keeping straight both the original configurations of the Crazy333Planets, and the corresponding Crazy2face planets.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

Hi Friends, The Word document you are talking about Robert, has now become the first post in this thread (I edited it in). The Standard Crazy2face Planets are listed and `individually diagrammed` in a table (the second attachment in that post) here , I have called them the Iconic series. That expanded view is really big, but if you scroll through the individual puzzles, they're the right size, and if you copy it to your computer, you can see it better. Andrea, Dreiser is correct, you have made C2f Venus, you will find C2f Jupiter (there are 2 versions of it) much easier. The series is very interesting, for sure. Some of them are a real challenge. Remember that they behave like the corresponding planet names, so it gives an idea of how to solve them . You have probably spent a long time assembling the faces, now to only change the centres will be much quicker (unfortunately you have to change a lot of centres from your position).
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi Dreiser, Robert, Burgo, thank you for help. yes I had misunderstood symbols 1 faces and 0 faces and swapped these. Now I continue solving Venus I was able to solve all triangles. I solve this cube with reduction. But must turn corners without changing triangles. Cheers, Andrea PS: Venus has a incredible parity situation.


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:01 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi friends,
I solved my C2F Venus Cube. I used a tricky reduction method based on crazy cube Venus. I use only known CPS and cuboid sequences.
Cheers, Andrea


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AndyChilly

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:16 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am Location: Rye, East Sussex

I seem to be having real issues with Crazy2face Saturn, though I have at this stage only spent an hour on it.
_________________ How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"


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rline

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:18 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am


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AndyChilly

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:24 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am Location: Rye, East Sussex

_________________ How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"


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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

AndyChilly wrote: I too am stuck on Crazy2face Saturn. I can do Crazy333cube Saturn fairly comfortably now two different ways, but both use the same fairly long, complicated 3cycle to get the last few circle edges. On Crazy2face Saturn I have not sorted out yet how to use it without the 2face locking things up along the way. It has been helpful, I think, to do the Crazy333 just before the corresponding Crazy2face. Yesterday I had Crazy2face Saturn solved except for 5 circle edges. A word rline uses sometimes in his Youtube videos comes to mind that describes my current state with Saturn. I am bamboozled. Not ready yet though to see how others have done it. Still trying to sort it out.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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AndyChilly

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:34 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am Location: Rye, East Sussex

robertpauljr wrote: Not ready yet though to see how others have done it. Still trying to sort it out. Same! No point in having this cube if its not challenging.
_________________ How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:56 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

I found the crazy 3x3 Saturn incredibly tough  in fact it was the last one I was able to solve. So I have deviated from Burgo's order to try and do them in the same order I did with the original planets! So far I have done both C2F Jupiters and both C2F Uranuses (??Urani?) and found them only a tiny bit more challenging than the originals using reduction to a standard cube. My next Crazy 3x3 was the Mercury  I'm about to try the crazy version first and then will try the C2F. These are such fun!!! And my colleagues really think I'm nuts now!
_________________ Kevin Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:10 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

I rated the Saturn as a bit easier in the Standard C2fseries, because it has more 1faces, which means it gets less blocked up than some of the others. The difficulty all depends on your method for it too (which I won't go into yet due to Robert's request).
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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Dreiser

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:10 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:23 am Location: Confoederatio Helvetica

I have solved the Standard Crazy2face Neptune today. I needed more than 4 hours (and I needed too much coffee and cigarettes). I have solved it like Burgo's Neptune TutorialFirst I solve the green branded inner and outer edges. That's interesting but not too difficult. The 3 yellow branded inner corner are the second step. That's very difficult for me. Most of the time a 2face edge or corner piece is not correct oriented and I can't execute the inner corner 3cycle. With this solving method you have not too much space. You turn 3 different faces for the inner corner 3cycle. The third step is a little bit easier, because I have a little bit more space for positioning the gray branded corner. I turn only 2 different faces. The rest of the solve is more or less like the normal Crazy 333 Neptune. The 2face pieces make no trouble. Please tell me, if someone has a better solution. I hope you can understand my bad English. Dreiser Attachment:
Neptune.jpg [ 94.85 KiB  Viewed 3084 times ]


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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:22 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

Burgo wrote: I rated the Saturn as a bit easier in the Standard C2fseries, because it has more 1faces, which means it gets less blocked up than some of the others. The difficulty all depends on your method for it too (which I won't go into yet due to Robert's request). I am happy to report that I have solved Crazy2face Saturn. Once. It was quite difficult, but quite systematic. There is no doubt an easier way than the method I finally came up with to reduce the last few edges. And I'm not sure but there may have been some lucky sections that would prove to be more puzzling next time. I would like to see how others have gone about solving Crazy2face Saturn, particularly the reduction of all the edges.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi friends, hi crazy 2 face experts
has someone solved the C2F Mercury ? In Burgo's list Mercury is more easy than Venus. Venus is not so hard, I think. Mercury is much more harder than Venus, I think.
I cannot solve Mercury. (Similar Crazy Tet Uranus) All circleedges (exclusive the 4 in upper layer orbit) can change. All circlecorners can change. The hardest part are the upper circle corners ( near the yellow face) and the circle edges.
Little tips for me ?
Cheers, Andrea


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themathkid

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

Andrea wrote: Hi friends, hi crazy 2 face experts
has someone solved the C2F Mercury ? In Burgo's list Mercury is more easy than Venus. Venus is not so hard, I think. Mercury is much more harder than Venus, I think.
I cannot solve Mercury. (Similar Crazy Tet Uranus) All circleedges (exclusive the 4 in upper layer orbit) can change. All circlecorners can change. The hardest part are the upper circle corners ( near the yellow face) and the circle edges.
Little tips for me ?
Cheers, Andrea The 2face is surrounded by only 0faces. Because of this, the circle edges on the collar of the 2face cannot be exchanged with any others. They are their own orbit. So really there are three orbits: U layer collar, D layer collar, and everything else. This orbit should be correctly positioned in the early stages while you are putting the 2face together. On a circle cube, there are 12*2 = 24 circle edges. With Mercury, 4 are lost since we have a 2face, 4 are locked in the 2face collar, and 4 are locked in the opposite face's collar. This leaves only 12 left to solve. They can be 3cycled in several ways with a 10move sequence  (Setup)(EPS)(Undo Setup). The EPS can be done two ways and the whole thing can be mirrored, giving 4 ways to 3cycle. This makes solving all the circle edges fairly easy after you get the hang of it. I have only been working on Mercury for a short time today, so I have not gotten to the circle corners yet.
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi Seth,
thank you for your answer. I agree with your posting. I solve the crazy Mercury with reduction. Pairing edges with triangles. I was able to bring the ends of an outer edge to the top yellow ( 2 face) postion and an other to the opposite position. Then turn yellow face 180 Â° and undo the EPS sequences. This works not for all circle edges, I think. (e.g. white triangles)
I found : ( circle edges)
Top face is yellow. Make (L2 U R2 U') X 2 z ( rotate whole cube ) idea: bring the corner away that doesn't allow the sune ( the top right back corner) Then a sune R U R' U R U2 R' U and x z' and (L2 U R2 U') x 2 reinsert the yellow corner This is a 3 cycle of circle edges. This sequence doesn't reach all possible positions, because this sequence has 4 different orbits.
There are no intersections. A new sequence must be found, I think.
Cheers, Andrea


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rline

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

Hey everyone , One of the things I was looking forward to with this series was actually solving some along with others. I haven't been able to so far, because I've felt it best to make some videos of some solves of various puzzles, trying to showcase the types of puzzles that can be made from the kit. So instead of doing it in the sensible method, or instead of building crazy 2face saturn, which others seem to be on right now, I'm sticking mainly with jupiter and changing around B4 stuff. I'm hoping to make around 10 videos total in the series. I've chosen jupiter because it's the easiest base puzzle. I think Burgo has done such an amazing job with this kit, and I want others to see some of the possibilities. I'm going to try and remember to post diagrams belonging to each video, so anyone else who wants to can make the same puzzle and find a better way to solve it than me. So...I'm posting here a link to a short explanation video about the series, as well as the 1st video in the series. Keep in mind that they start off fairly easily but I think will get harder quite quickly. I struggle with bandaged puzzles so this won't be a walk in the park for me! You may notice there are some comments on the explanation video which indicate that some people don't really understand what I'm doing. I'm making the videos more for people such as yourselves, rather than the casual subscriber to my channel. (I've had a bit of an influx of subscribers lately and I'm not sure it's necessarily a good thing ) I really hope the videos aren't misunderstood. I've kept them "as they are", which means you'll see mistakes, wrong moves, etc etc, and you'll most likely have a bit of a laugh. This will be on top of my normal video output and a busy work time, so I don't know the frequency. If I make some puzzle and can't figure it out, I'll just say I've been busy at work. Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf8bzPBjh74Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf79rHAhwhQAttachment:
2fb4 jupiter v1.png [ 220.96 KiB  Viewed 2875 times ]
_________________ Youtube Twisty Puzzling Blogger Twisty Puzzling  Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties Tutorials: Pitcher OctoStar Cube  GERANIUM  Wheel of Wisdom


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:30 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

My experience with C2F Mercury. I can solve inner edges, edges and corners. I solve the circle edges intuitive. The edges and corners with easy sequences. But how to solve the triangles ?
I 'm unsure if it is solveable with reduction. The upper triangles belong to an edge which is bandaged.


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:46 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

Hi Andrea,
C2f Mercury
I know exactly what you're talking about! But I can't remember my sequence without building the puzzle! At the time (23 months ago) I remember I thought people might have trouble in this situation. Maybe you can figure it out with some hints: I inserted 2x adjacent CCs (the same colour) at the same time. I used M twists, like M U2 M'.. etc. Basically, the idea was to turn 2 outer corners `around` the CCs at the same time, and then put them back down. You can put the CCs next to each other with preparation before the sequence. I know it's cryptic, but I think it will be what you will need to hear. I will make the puzzle and get the sequence later.
EDIT:
[White U]: R L' U2 M2 U2 M
Sunes to pair the CCs in the UF positions as setups.
Cheers, Burgo.
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Thank you Burgo for the hints. I tried it with no succes. On crazy Mercury it's possible to make many setup moves to bring the edges in correct positions. On C2F I cannot find correct setup moves. Perhaps I must get more practice. Great challenge this puzzle and much more harder than Venus.
Cheers, Andrea


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themathkid

Post subject: Crazy2Face Mercury Solution Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I have finally solved the Crazy2Face Mercury!!!
[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Mercury Solution Outline I found a rather long sequence for 3cycling circle corners. It's 28 moves long, but 2 will cancel out. I left the cancelled moves in because it's easier for me to remember. The sequence is built from 4 EPS + setups, so it's not that bad to execute once you do it a few times. Hold yellow at U. The sequence is:
Right Side Version: (F'D'R) [(R'F'RF) UD (RFR'F') U'D'] [R' (DR'D'R)(D'FDF') R] (R'DF) Left Side Version: (RDF') [(FRF'R') U'D' (F'R'FR) UD] [F (D'FDF')(DR'D'R) F'] (FD'R')
In English, it's (Setup) [(Edge 3cycle) UD (Reverse Edge 3cycle) U'D'] (Edge orientation fix)(Undo setup). This will cycle 1 CC on the yellow collar and 2 in the white collar. I can maybe put up a picture later if you need. The two sequences are just mirror images of each other [R <> F]. For setup moves, you can manipulate edges on the white face by flipping them and cycling them as needed to position "bad" CCs for your 3cycle.
To deal with the white CCs, I had to do a little more work. The idea is to push a middle edge onto the white face and then do a CC 3cycle. Hold yellow at F. Perform L2FR' to setup. Now you can do an EPS on U and R to push the middle edge out of place and then undo the setup. That middle edge is now "paired" with 2 CCs that were on the white face a moment ago [paired in the sense that CCs are tied to edges on the normal circle cube]. Use the CC 3cycle to pair it with 2 white CCs instead. Once paired, use the same setup to return the middle edge to it's place. You will now have 2 correct white CCs. Do the same thing with another middle edge. If you do two opposite middle edges, you will only need to do this process twice. [/SPOILER]
So basically the whole solve process is:
1. Solve yellow face 2. Solve circle edges 3. Solve outer edges 3a. Check for / fix center orientation parity on the white face 4. Solve white CCs 5. Solve remaining CCs 6. Solve white face completely using only 0faces [reduction to circle cube]
I feel like I say this after every good puzzle I solve, but this felt like one of the most difficult puzzles I've ever solved. It took me 8 pages of notes! Good lord. Perhaps this was so difficult because it was only the third Crazy2Face I attempted [both Jupiters were easy by comparison]. But I really enjoyed this. I sincerely hope this is not just the middle of the solving difficulty for the Crazy2Face planets. If they get much more difficult than this, I may not make it through the series...
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns
Last edited by themathkid on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

Regarding C333 Saturn. The idea of flipped edges has been addressed earlier in the thread, and I would like to pose an alternate way of dealing with them. Instead of reducing all the edges, then placing them. Build edges one by one and place them as you go. For example, build the red/white edge on the top with the orange on top and place it on the red layer. Etc. Then once all the red edges are solved, do 3 middle layer edges. Important: As you are building them, do so in such a way that they are oriented correctly in the correct place for easy insertion into the solved state. That way no flipping has to be done to reduced edges. After the red edges and 3 of the middle layer edges are solvedâ€”(remember, by solved I mean reduced and permuted)â€”then build and permute the two edges farthest from the unsolved middle layer piece. This leaves 3 edges to solve. Ignore the circle edge parts and solve the 3 outer edges. Then use setup moves and Burgo's circle edge 3cycle to finish them up. I have a slightly different way of executing the 3cycle which I think makes it easier, both to remember and execute. [SPOILER] ( M'U'M'U'M' (DE) x 2 ) x 4[/SPOILER] Then proceed to the corners. I have successfully used this on C2f Saturn, and have to admit, utilizing the circle edge 3 cycle adapted from Burgo's method, and at the end using a technique for twisting corners that rline reminded me of in a recent video he posted, made it much easier than my first solve of C2f Saturn.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

Crazy2face MercuryHi Andrea, Perhaps my sequence is complicated to use in it's basic form (that requires more than 1 application). I do the application and repair it when I do opposing sides. ([White U]: R L' U2 M2 U2 M). Sunes cycle CCs in the top layer until 2 adjacent are the same colour and placed in UF. Here is a more `neat` version: C2f Mercury [White U] R L' U2 M2 U2 M [x'] (M2 U2 M2) it places 2 CCs at a time. Attachment:
lower cc reduction mercury.jpg [ 1.89 MiB  Viewed 2714 times ]
themathkid wrote: I feel like I say this after every good puzzle I solve, but this felt like one of the most difficult puzzles I've ever solved. It took me 8 pages of notes! Good lord. Perhaps this was so difficult because it was only the third Crazy2Face I attempted [both Jupiters were easy by comparison]. But I really enjoyed this. I sincerely hope this is not just the middle of the solving difficulty for the Crazy2Face planets. If they get much more difficult than this, I may not make it through the series... Congratulations Seth! Don't worry, the `leap` is from Jupiter /Uranus to `the others, the solving difficulty of the others will be a bit more subjective I think . You don't need lenthy new ways to do things, reduction is possible with all the puzzles in the Standard Crazy2face series.. a few new short adaptions are needed in some cases. Mostly the difficulty is getting around blocking during proceedures. I've shown how I deal with the CCs attached to the lower bandaged edges on Mercury, for the others I just insert the edges into M slice so the CCs are on the yellow face. I place 2 at a time in opposite positions (this is the easier way to deal with the 2face bandaging) and then do a D2, and continue. Cheers, Burgo.
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi Friends, Seth: Quote: I have finally solved the Crazy2Face Mercury!!! Congratulations ! I see you are a great solver, I read in the other thread you solve many difficult puzzles in a short time. Thanks for sharing you solution in the spoiler. Burgo: Thank you for your work. I will study this. Perhaps I make less progress because I have a bad cold. Cheers, Andrea


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:12 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi "crazy" puzzlers,
after many hours I solved my C2F Mercury !
Burgo's sequence, exchanging 2x2 triangles was very usefull. I used (L2 U R2 U') to bring a bottom triangle to top. After this it's possible to do an EPS. With this I can solve this cube.
Cheers, Andrea


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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

themathkid wrote: So basically the whole solve process is:
1. Solve yellow face 2. Solve circle edges 3. Solve outer edges 3a. Check for / fix center orientation parity on the white face 4. Solve white CCs 5. Solve remaining CCs 6. Solve white face completely using only 0faces [reduction to circle cube] Seth, after solving Jupiter and Uranus and Saturn, I tried Crazy333 Mercury. It was simple! I couldn't imagine C2f Mercury being that much harder. Ha! How wrong I was! Not having read any of the Mercury posts before trying it I thought I'd do the circle edges first, then the outer edges. Then go from there. I got the circle edges, but the yellows have me tied in knots trying to get the last few outer edges. I haven't looked at your spoiler yet, nor Burgo's algorithms, but I think maybe I will try your step 1 first and see how much that helps.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

robertpauljr wrote: after solving Jupiter and Uranus and Saturn, I tried Crazy333 Mercury. It was simple! I couldn't imagine C2f Mercury being that much harder. Ha! How wrong I was! Not having read any of the Mercury posts before trying it I thought I'd do the circle edges first, then the outer edges. Then go from there. I got the circle edges, but the yellows have me tied in knots trying to get the last few outer edges. Why does everyone say they find the Crazy 3x3 mercury easy??? I am doing the crazy cubes before each of the C2F cubes and whilst most of the 3x3 mercury is easy, I find that 1 in 2 scrambles I get a parity doing the outer edges. I end up with 2 of them swapped and for the life of me I cannot see a simple way to get past it! I have tried lots of different parity algs and nothing works until I rescramble and try again and then have that 1:2 chance again! I have seen on the solving thread some VERY complex fixes but don't want to use them because then I have learned nothing! What is the issue that needs to be fixed to repair that parity? Some clues as to what I need to do would be helpful please! Somehow I think that any attempt at the C2F mercury will be in vain! I guess I should try a different one to prevent a terminal slide in enthusiasm!!
_________________ Kevin Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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robertpauljr

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm Location: Northern Central California

Puzzlemad wrote: Why does everyone say they find the Crazy 3x3 mercury easy??? I am doing the crazy cubes before each of the C2F cubes and whilst most of the 3x3 mercury is easy, I find that 1 in 2 scrambles I get a parity doing the outer edges. I end up with 2 of them swapped and for the life of me I cannot see a simple way to get past it! I have tried lots of different parity algs and nothing works until I rescramble and try again and then have that 1:2 chance again! I have seen on the solving thread some VERY complex fixes but don't want to use them because then I have learned nothing! What is the issue that needs to be fixed to repair that parity? Some clues as to what I need to do would be helpful please! Somehow I think that any attempt at the C2F mercury will be in vain! I guess I should try a different one to prevent a terminal slide in enthusiasm!! Parity? Here is how I tackle C3 Mercuryâ€” 1. Solve the circle edges first. If you want more specifics, please ask. 2. Solve the outer edges pretty much like a Rubik's Cube, but avoid turning the one face. If you get to the last few outer edges and two need swapped what do you do? A couple things come to mind. Twist one into place and 3cycle the three that are now out of place. Or use the series of replacements algorithm. U R U R' U R U R' U swaps UR and FR and scrambles 4 corners. 3. Solve the circle corners one or two at a time. Or if you are lucky or quite clever or a little of both, three at a time. I use a common commutator, sort of like the CPS, if you are familiar with it. Here is how mine works. Yellow on bottom. RUR' D (or D' or D2) RU'R' D' (or D or D2) cycles the circle corner on the bottom of DFR to the bottom of DFL (or DRB or DLB) to the right side of URB. Now that I think of it, instead of just doing U you could do U' or U2 in the first part then undo that U in the second part. 4. Solve the outer corners with commutators (like CPS) making sure you do not twist the one face. That should do it.
_________________ Personal Blogâ€”Puzzles plus other interests Crazy 2face Planet Progress Log


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

Edge Parity in a Crazy PuzzlePuzzlemad wrote: I find that 1 in 2 scrambles I get a parity doing the outer edges. I end up with 2 of them swapped and for the life of me I cannot see a simple way to get past it! I have tried lots of different parity algs and nothing works until I rescramble and try again and then have that 1:2 chance again! Hi Kevin, Partiy in a Crazy Planet cube `Circle Cube Reduction` comes from the super centres being misaligned. Sounds complicated, but not really. When we rebuild the puzzle back to the circle cube, the inner edges need to be placed around all of the centres `in parity`. If the inner edges had specific positions, we wouldn't get a parity, so the parity is because of identical inner edges. Remember.. the inner circle components are a view into the puzzle.. in this case, the inner edges `see` the sides of the centres: they are the super orientation of the centres. They come unstuck during a Crazy Scramble. You put them back on wrong (or out of parity). It's the same as the CCs `seeing` the sides of the outer edges. You can get them wrong too.. that appears as 2 needing swapping and you have to include `another of the same colour` in whatever you're doing to fix it. That is why Super Positions are just `more tedious` and `not as interesting` sometimes. Knowing that.. you just need to twist a face by 90* and resolve the inner edges to that configuration. Then resolve your outer edges if you desire. On Mercury, there are some fixed orbits. So you need to choose the `side faces` with exchangeable inner edges. The `Parity alg` we use isn't complicated.. it's just a common 3cycle of RC edges using 2 faces only. The reason it works is that, unlike Sune which has an even amount of twists, this sequence twists the centre on R by 90*: [RU' RU RU RU' R'U' R2] U is added for the same reason we might add U when we use Sune to `swap 2 edges` instead of 3cycle them.. that's not really anything fundamental, that's just `tidy` (the damage has been done). Also setups are used to get it all positioned in a place where it's going to move those inner edges (U must be a 1face and R must be a 0face). That `algo` will get people through the Crazy333planets `efficiently`, but unless they know the fundamentals, they will struggle with the Crazy2face series . Cheers, Burgo.
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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bwross

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Puzzlemad wrote: Why does everyone say they find the Crazy 3x3 mercury easy???
Personally, I find it kind of hard to compare. Like Jupiter there's only one face different, so a reduction followed by solving with only 5 faces is an obvious simple approach. The reduction to circle cube for Mercury, though, was definitely harder to work out than the reduction to regular for Jupiter. Which makes it a very different beast, but once I wrapped my head around it it didn't really feel so much harder as more taxing. Which is part of the hard part of difficulty order lists... I'm never really sure if people are talking initial solve difficulty, or how ultimately taxing it is to solve after you have your head around it, or some consideration for both. Then there's the difference in personal methods... those can make a huge difference in that initial difficulty, or it could be that the tools you bring provide a simple method to solution but it's much more taxing than a slightly more complicated initial approach. So you really have to take comments on difficulty with a lot of salt, unless it comes with a good description of why. As for Mercury parity, I'll add that even after making sure the inner edges are correct before starting the reduction, at the end of the reduction, I sometimes end up with the 1face rotated 1/4 turn and need to fix that problem, which involves setting up a U turn that doesn't break the reduction. To do that, I make the inner corners on the U layer have the same colour up, so that the four pairs that get broken are identical and lined up. Which essentially results in a 4cycle of one colour's inner circle pieces relative to their inner circle reductionmates on the D face. I'm not sure that specific inner edge positions would prevent that possibility, without going to specific inner corner positions as well.
_________________  Brent Ross


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Burgo wrote: Partiy in a Crazy Planet cube `Circle Cube Reduction` comes from the super centres being misaligned. Yes. A 90Â° turn, or a 90Â° turn + sune. Then only resolve 2 circle edges. There is an easy possibility to check the parity before solving the edges. If this parity arises then an odd number of edges and an odd number of corner permutations exist. Check the parity of corners, after alignment. This is easier than parity of edges.


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

bwross wrote: Which is part of the hard part of difficulty order lists... I'm never really sure if people are talking initial solve difficulty, or how ultimately taxing it is to solve after you have your head around it, or some consideration for both. I agree. I initially had the same concerns, I started using difficulty lists as `a way to compare the difficulty it took to figure the puzzle out from scratch`. It's very hard to make a judgement like that because we gain knowledge and procedures as we go, so I had to think back about which were the harder procedures to come up with and compare that to the amount of these things combined, needed to solve the puzzle.. More recently I have been more aware of how people are going to use them, and I've been trying to use them as a good way to approach the puzzles in an order in which you can systematically grow your knowledge, to reduce the `sledgehammer effect`. (This is just personally of course). The link to my Crazy333puzzles `difficulty order` early in the first post in this thread leads to this: Burgo wrote: I will make a list of the order in which I would recommend solving these puzzles for people starting out (to grow your knowledge), rather than a list of `difficulties`, which we have done in the past. I've tried to make a handy list there, because I often get asked that question by PM, and now I have something to link to. I think it's quite helpful to get some idea of which puzzles to approach first, it may not be a perfect system, but it's better than nothing . bwross wrote: As for Mercury parity, I'll add that even after making sure the inner edges are correct before starting the reduction, at the end of the reduction, I sometimes end up with the 1face rotated 1/4 turn and need to fix that problem With Reduction to a Circle Cube, you need to make sure that the edge parity is resolved first. Inner and Outer edges need to be paired in position.. this is how you know the `Centre Orientation` is repaired correctly (as Andrea said: there are other ways too, and all ways are associated within the parity definitions of a RC). Unless you move Inner edges around later in your solve, there will be no parity issue at the end. The parity wouldn't appear if there was specific positions for the Inner edges.. Swapping 2 Inner edges of the same colour during a 3cycle will alter their parity as well, causing the same issue. Actually `solving the Inner edges` is `reducing the centres to their Super positions`, it's part of the reduction to a Circle cube .
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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rline

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am


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themathkid

Post subject: Crazy2Face Venus Solution Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I have just solved Venus. I would say it's easier than Mercury, but a bit more confusing in the endgame. Very different from other puzzles in the series in my opinion. It's been a long time since I solved the Crazy 3x3x3 Venus, but this is DEFINITELY not how I went about it!
[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Venus Solution Outline 1. Solve yellow face. 2. Solve circle edges like Mercury 3. Solve outer edges like Mercury [orientation takes an extra trick, but is not difficult]
4. Solve the circle corners. Treat the puzzle like a domino with yellow on top and white on bottom. Use domino techniques to set up 3 bad CCs for a 3cycle:
 One on the F or R side of the FDR corner [Piece A]  One on the U face above the FR edge [Piece B]  One at any other position on the U face [Piece C]
The idea is to perform an EPS on the FR, FD, and RD edges to pull A up to the U face [either by F'RFR' or RF'R'F, depending on which side it's on]. Now replace it with C, undo your EPS, and finally undo the U turn. So all together it looks like [F'RFR'] U [RF'R'F] U' or similar. The net effect is a 3cycle [ABC]. Care must be taken with the RDB and FLD corners to make sure that you can actually perform the EPS [that is, to avoid blocking], but in general this is not too bad. It's hard to solve 2 at a time with this method, unfortunately.
To access the pieces in the U layer collar, we need an extra setup move. Things like LB'L' or similar can move these pieces from the collar to the U layer, allowing you to perform the 3cycle. In general, pieces A and B should already be prepared before doing this this or you risk screwing up the inner and outer edges. After solving the U layer collar, prioritize solving pieces in the D layer collar next.
The nice thing about this process is that yellow corners can be treated exactly like CCs. This is helpful sometimes when you can't position a third piece for your 3cycle. The other nice part is that if you forget your domino setups and things look totally screwed up, YOU CAN **ALWAYS** FIX THEM BY RESOLVING AS A DOMINO!!! I consider this a small miracle  absolutely wonderful for those of us that can't remember more than 3 setup moves, especially on an long, involved solve like this where a lategame screw up would be devastating. You may need to do this a few times throughout this process to keep track of which CCs are actually bad.
5. With all CCs paired, resolve the domino if necessary. If you find you can't get the corners easily, at least get the yellow face + the white edges.
6. Solve corners corners. Hold white at U. Turn M'. You can now do CPS to 3cycle corners. Orient corners UBL and UFL by doing sune and it's then it's mirror. [/SPOILER]
I did not run into the white center orientation parity from Mercury, but I suspect it is possible. You should be able to check for it and fix it early on, same as Mercury, though.
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns
Last edited by themathkid on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:49 am, edited 3 times in total.


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:18 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

Burgo wrote: Knowing that.. you just need to twist a face by 90* and resolve the inner edges to that configuration. Then resolve your outer edges if you desire. Thanks guys  this did help but in a very unexpected way! I looked at both yours and Robertpauljr's algorithms and whilst they worked, I didn't understand why!! I recalled from my supercube solves that I was able to rotate a centre doing a RUR'U sequence repeatedly. I did this on my mercury and watched what happened. If the 1 face is on the R and you have the parity edges at UR and FR then the sequence of RUR'U done repeatedly until the U face returns to the beginning position seems to work very nicely. I am very like SuperAntonioVivaldi  a man of advancing years and little memory with no urge to have to memorise loads of algorithms! I want to use what I know in creative ways!!! So at least I can say that I can solve the Crazy 3x3 mercury and am going to give up on the C2F mercury just now. It's time to try Rline's new B4 Jupiter puzzle that he posted earlier today and then maybe I'll go back to Crazy 3x3 Saturn and then the C2F Saturn!
_________________ Kevin Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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psi

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:41 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:39 am

I solved the two C2fJupiter and C2fUranus. These planets where the easiest one of the standard 333 planets and I think they are still easy in C2f form. It just comes natural to reduce them to RC intuitively. Just on C2fUranus(BGO) the WY edge should be reduced first and kept in place during solve. Now, thanks to rline , I'm on a crossroads: going for other planets or trying more B4 bandaging on easiest ones? I see people alredy talking about mercury so i'll try that one also because I think B4 bandaging gives a much wider array of possibilities. I have also a real life to solve ... Other thoughts: someone already proposed to organize in some way the discussion on the different puzzles this kit can produce. I think it could be a nice idea to have a thread for each planet (included relative bandaging) or something like that. Otherwise this thread will become overwhelmed with mixed solutions to different puzzles. On the other side we already have many threads about these puzzles and that is also confusing sometimes ...


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

Congratulations to all, this thread is moving very fast! Nice to see the Domino method in use Seth. Nice adaption of a simple centre rotation alg, to fix the edge parity Kevin! Very Elegant! I'm really enjoying Rline's documentary series on Jupiter too. psi wrote: Other thoughts: someone already proposed to organize in some way the discussion on the different puzzles this kit can produce. I think it could be a nice idea to have a thread for each planet (included relative bandaging) or something like that. In an ideal world we would have a bit more order. I don't think this series warrants a subforum, although perhaps it has a chance to be a long thread. The Crazy Planet thread is a bit chaotic as well. Learning from that and how I use it now though, I can suggest something useful for now: Whenever you post a method, or a pertinent part of a method, you could lead with a Large Font with the exact full name of the puzzle as a heading `including spacing` (computers have electronic OCD). Then we can use the forum search function to search for the puzzle name and you should get a good selection of what `would be in a subforum`. This format will pick up the `methods` easily and avoid the chatter where shortened names are often used.. like C2f or CB4. You'll be able to limit your search to within `Solving Puzzles`.
Following the same logic.. if we make it standard practice to Bold the name of a puzzle when it's first mentioned in your post. Or make a bolded heading summarising the topic of your post. That will help people `scanning through` pages to quickly locate relevant information. Leave it off if it's just chatter, make a judgement about how useful the information is.
If you're going to put in a large spoiler: Use a bolded heading above it, saying what it's a spoiler for. I think these sort of organisational things will go a long way to making things in a long thread work. I'll go back and edit my posts . Cheers, Burgo.
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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themathkid

Post subject: Crazy2Face Saturn solution Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I solved a few Cf2 puzzles this morning: both Uranus versions, Neptune, and Saturn. I found them all to be EXACTLY like my methods for the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus versions [aside from some minor issues with blocking due to the presence of the 2faces]. Saturn seems to be getting a lot of attention, so I will share my method here. The technique can easily be extended to Mars as well. It makes perfect sense in my head, but I had a hard time explaining it in my notes. I apologize in advance if I confuse the heck out of you.
[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Saturn Solution Outline 1. Pair circle edges with outer edges. 2. Position all edges correctly.
3. Fix edge orientation if necessary. This is tricky, but it becomes almost intuitive after the first few attempts. You will need 3 complete edges that share a color. With U as an unbandaged face, position as follows;
 Edge A at UF with like color on U  Edge B at UR with like color on U  Edge C at RF with like color on F
Perform (U'RUR')(FR'F'R). This will flip edges A and C without disturbing position or circle edges. Basically, you're doing an EPS on U/R and then undoing that same EPS on F/R. The net effect is that A and C travel around all 3 faces and thus change orientation. The circle edges are not affected since they are all the same color!
You can generally only flip either:
 1 good edge (C) and 1 bad edge (A) on the same bandaged face  2 adjacent bad edges on the same unbandaged face
This is sufficient to fix anything, but you might have to do multiple flips. In practice, it can be confusing which order to work in. First, solve the 2face to minimize blocking later. Next, prioritize orienting middle edges since edges on the U or D layer can be handled 2 at a time.
4. Pair circle corners with outer corners. Hold an unbandaged face at F. Position bad CCs on the F face at UFL and UFR such that turning F will create a matched pair at UFR. Now perform a CPS to move the paired corner away and bring in another bad corner. Finally, turn F'. So basically F+CPS+F'. By wisely placing and orienting the ULB, you can create a 2nd pair each time, too.
5. Solve the reduced 3x3x3 using only 1 and 2face turns. [/SPOILER]
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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Dreiser

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:00 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:23 am Location: Confoederatio Helvetica

I solved the Crazy2face Mercury today with the help from the crazy people in this forum.
My order of difficulty for the Standard Crazy2face Planets until now is:
Jupiter Uranus Saturn Venus, Neptune Mercury
If you know the solution for Mercury the puzzle is not so hard. But this puzzle makes me crazy.
Burgo: Which lacquer did you use. My cube is alright now, but the lacquer is solvent.


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:22 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

The lacquer isn't as good as I'd hoped, but it won't damage anything if it comes off. I changed brands from an acrylic base, which had proven itself, to an oil base, which I thought would be more durable (and less solvent). It's not. Still, like I said.. there was no harm in trying, it might help protect and hold the stickers on for a bit, and longer if you look after it.
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:41 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

CrazyB4 cube(33p) Jupiter B4bI'm really not sure whether I should thank you Rline or not! If this is a beginner's cube then I am completely stuffed! It has taken me about 12 hours to work out how to solve it! I don't know whether it's because I'm rubbish or because it is a really hard puzzle. I really thought it would be similar to the bandaged 3x3 version but OMG it is totally different! The combination of the zero face and that long bandaged edge totally changes the solve process. Even trying to get the corners reduced is nearly impossible and the final Rubik cube solve is so much harder due to the difficulty of a bandaged edge and zero face! I finally did it and scared the hell out of my sleeping cats when I yelled aloud!! I'm totally exhausted now!
_________________ Kevin Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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rline

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

Quote: Well, I don't know that it's a beginner's puzzle. Remember that by the nature of these things, Burgo took something already more difficult (crazy 2face) and dreamed up nightmares. So we've got to expect some serious pain. After all, it's a fine line... What I will say is that in the video where I solve this one, it's done after a few solves, and specifically after figuring out where to go with it. The next one will be a comedy event as I'm going to start from never having scrambled it, to then trying to solve it.
_________________ Youtube Twisty Puzzling Blogger Twisty Puzzling  Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties Tutorials: Pitcher OctoStar Cube  GERANIUM  Wheel of Wisdom


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themathkid

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I'm finding Cf2 Mars(BG) more difficult than Cf2 Mars(WG). Having the 2face as the middle face in the band of 1centers completely kills my edge flipping method [same method as Saturn]. I ended up with two flipped edges on a 1face and I'm pretty sure it's impossible to fix without a new trick. I may need to try placing and pairing simultaneously.
Not asking for hints yet. Just sharing my frustration.
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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themathkid

Post subject: Crazy2Face Mars Solution Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:03 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I have solved Crazy2Face Mars (BG) five times now. I never did fix the problem of 2 full edges flipped on a 1face. I abandoned that effort and rescrambled. In subsequence attempts, I have not run into this problem, so I assume my tweaked pairing method prevents such a scenario but I'm not positive. This is why I did so many solves  I was scared of getting that situation again and wanted to see if I could induce it. As with Saturn, I had a bit of trouble putting my method into words, so bear with me.
[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Mars (BG) Solution Outline 1. Solve the red/white and orange/white edges 2. Start pairing outer edges with their circle edges. Start with the green edges. Position edges after pairing. Ensure that paired edges are oriented correctly, too.
3. Work on pairing the yellow edges. Yellow/green is already paired and oriented, so there are only 3 to work with. Correctly pair all three but leave one [either yellow/red or yellow/orange] INCORRECTLY oriented. This is a heuristic strategy that will help prevent a nasty situation later.
4. Work on pairing the blue edges. I believe this is always possible but may take several 3cycles of circle edges due to all the blue pieces. You sometimes run into a scenario where it appears that the circle edges are good but two outer edges are flipped. This can be fixed either by more circleedge 3cycling OR by manipulating the outer edges alone with only the 0faces. I prefer the later, honestly.
5. With all circleedges and outer edges paired, you will find one blue edge and one yellow edge need orienting. It may be possible to get 3 blue + 1 yellow, but I have not yet come across this and can be avoided with some extra care in step 4. Use the edge flipping techniques from Saturn to take care of the two edges. All edges should be paired, positioned and oriented correctly now. We are in the home stretch now!
6. Pair circle corners with outer corners. This can be done exactly like Saturn. Hold an unbandaged face at F. Position bad CCs on the F face at UFL and UFR such that turning F will create a matched pair at UFR. Now perform a CPS to move the paired corner away and bring in another bad corner. Finally, turn F'. So basically F+CPS+F'. By wisely placing and orienting the ULB corner, you can create a 2nd pair each time, too.
7. Solve the reduced 3x3x3 using only 1 and 2face turns. [/SPOILER]
On the other hand, Crazy2Face Mars (WG) is quite simple [relatively speaking]. There are no unpleasant situations. Aside from the blocking, it's no more difficult than the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Mars. The only real change is that yellow edges need to be paired first since they can't be flipped as easily due to blocking.
I realized today that I never solved [or even attempted] the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus Earth. I will handle that first before trying the Cf2 version.
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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Burgo

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:43 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am Location: Australia

I'm happy to hear you got through.. I didn't do (WG) I only did (BG). I'm glad to hear I did the hard one . Thanks for the report .
_________________ 1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s). PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked). 1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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themathkid

Post subject: Crazy2Face Earth Solution Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:24 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

I finished the Crazy2Face Earth. It's not much more difficult than Mercury. It does require a bit more work for the circle edges since the three distinct orbits of Mercury are gone  all circle edges can be exchanged now.
[SPOILER] Crazy2Face Earth Solution Outline 1. Solve yellow face 2. Solve circle edges on yellow face's collar 3. Solve circle edges on green face's collar 4. Solve circle edges on green face & white face's collar 5. Solve remaining circle edges like Mercury 6. Solve outer edges like Mercury 7. Solve white circle corners like Mercury 8. Solve remaining circle corners like Mercury 9. Solve reduced circle cube using only 0faces [/SPOILER]
With Earth complete, I have now solved the entire standard Crazy2Face series. In my opinion, the planets that can be solved by reduction to regular 3x3x3 in the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus series [Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, Mars] are not much more difficult in the Crazy2Face series. This is because 1 and 2faces are functionally the same and with reduction to regular 3x3x3 we are only using these types of faces after a certain point.
The others [Mercury, Venus, Earth] would normally be solved by reduction to circle cube in the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus series but this is MUCH more difficult to achieve in the Crazy2Face series. My method for reduction to circle cube relies on at least 5 corners being manipulated during circlecorner pairing, but we only have 4 'normal' corners due to the 2face. This forces a constant need to monitor and manipulate at least one corner into a useable orientation to perform algorithms, leading to longer, more confusing setups. And because of the way corners move during CC solving, it's difficult to ensure that the 2face corners will return to their original position, even after undoing the setup. So you're constantly restoring corners just to break them a minute later.
So basically, reduction to regular 3x3x3 was already easier than reduction to circle cube, but the difference is much more pronounced in the Crazy2Face series.
I would rank the puzzles as follows:
Both Jupiter > Both Uranus > Neptune > Saturn > Mars (WG) > Mars (BG) > Venus > Mercury > Earth
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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psi

Post subject: Re: Crazy2Face Earth Solution Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:50 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:39 am

themathkid wrote: With Earth complete, I have now solved the entire standard Crazy2Face series.
Wow, you have been fast! Congratulations! themathkid wrote: I would rank the puzzles as follows: Both Jupiter > Both Uranus > Neptune > Saturn > Mars (WG) > Mars (BG) > Venus > Mercury > Earth Well, at least this explains why I felt to be landed "on another planet" switching from Uranus to Mercury. I'm finding it really tough, and not only the final circle corners (which i'm working on now) but also solving the rest has not been trivial at all. themathkid wrote: In my opinion, the planets that can be solved by reduction to regular 3x3x3 in the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus series [Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, Mars] are not much more difficult in the Crazy2Face series.
Have you tried solving Earth reducing it to regular 3x3x3? In the Crazy 3x3x3 plus series it was definitely possible (and fun). This could lower his difficulty and set Mercury as the hardest one giving me some relief I will try that when time will allow me to land on "Earth". And the same could be applied to "Mars", (which could be reduced also to circle cube in the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus) increasing his difficulty. But i'm not sure about this on C2f version.


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themathkid

Post subject: Re: Crazy2Face Earth Solution Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

psi wrote: Have you tried solving Earth reducing it to regular 3x3x3? In the Crazy 3x3x3 plus series it was definitely possible (and fun). This could lower his difficulty and set Mercury as the hardest one giving me some relief I will try that when time will allow me to land on "Earth". And the same could be applied to "Mars", (which could be reduced also to circle cube in the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus) increasing his difficulty. But i'm not sure about this on C2f version. I had never considered trying, actually. Hmmmm. Seems very difficult, but might be possible. Corner circle pairing is definitely doable, but there's much less freedom. You would probably have to start using CPS and corner orienting algorithms just to setup bad CCs for pairing, which would be very time consuming. Circle edge pairing is what worries me. It's basically the last face of Mars(BG) circle edge pairing but with less freedom. I suspect there would be some unpleasant situations, but it'd be fun to try. I'll pull out my Crazy 3x3x3 Plus and try those today. If they go well, I may try them on the Cf2 versions.
_________________ Call me Seth
Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:03 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

Long ago, I solved the mercury 3x3 as my 3rd crazy cube and apart from the parity I found it ok. But so far I have failed at the C2F mercury. So for my next step (after a small side track due to Rline), I plan to return to the original order that Burgo introduced. Now for me, I really struggled with the Saturn crazy and ended up using Rline's CC last approach. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it by reduction! This confirms what I've always claimed  I'm not terribly bright! I very much doubted I could do the C2F Saturn by CC last method (especially as I can't remember what I had done). So back to doing it by reduction. Thanks to Andrea and Burgo I have finally mastered the 3x3 Saturn by reduction to a Rubik cube! I struggled with flipping last edges and even doing a RC solve without using white or yellow faces! But have done it at last  it's actually a good fun solve! Hopefully I'll be ready now for the C2F Saturn. If anyone thinks that this is the wrong approach then I'd appreciate them preventing the pain before it starts!
_________________ Kevin Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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Dreiser

Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:51 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:23 am Location: Confoederatio Helvetica

Puzzlemad wrote: Hopefully I'll be ready now for the C2F Saturn. If anyone thinks that this is the wrong approach then I'd appreciate them preventing the pain before it starts! That's exactly the right approach. You can solve the C2F Saturn with the same strategy like the Mf8 3x3x3 Saturn.


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