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 Post subject: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Material on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Why does the Black Strong & Flexible Polished material on Shapeways not exist? The puzzle will be very nice with this material... But it doesn't exist...


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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:53 pm 
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I think it might have something to do with the fact that Black Strong and Flexible is already more expensive, so selling it polished would be an unpopular option. Keep in mind I totally support this material coming out, but if you think beyond Twisty Puzzles, Shapeways isn't going to sell a lot of that material.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:06 pm 
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I always assumed it had to do with black being a difficult color to get right. It often comes out uneven or grey and polishing / smoothing parts with it makes the smooth portions that much harder to dye.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:52 pm 
BelcherBoy2000 wrote:
I think it might have something to do with the fact that Black Strong and Flexible is already more expensive, so selling it polished would be an unpopular option. Keep in mind I totally support this material coming out, but if you think beyond Twisty Puzzles, Shapeways isn't going to sell a lot of that material.


I have seen blue strong and flexible polished. They always print in white, then polish it after if it's payed for, or dye it after. This is what I've read on the shape ways forum. I can't see why they won't polish it and then dye it black, when they can do it blue.


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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:09 pm 
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David Treeman wrote:
I have seen blue strong and flexible polished. They always print in white, then polish it after if it's payed for, or dye it after. This is what I've read on the shape ways forum. I can't see why they won't polish it and then dye it black, when they can do it blue.

I'm not saying Shapeways can't but my hypothosis is that they've tried at it doesn't work well.

Black is not like other colors. It's very sensitive to dye saturation. If you don't get enough dye in the part it either looks grey or you can see the underlying hue the black is made out of (in the case of Rit dye this is a deep purple-blue). I've had a lot of trouble getting a uniform black on parts I've polished. You can see the blue problem in this photo.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:19 pm 
bmenrigh wrote:
David Treeman wrote:
I have seen blue strong and flexible polished. They always print in white, then polish it after if it's payed for, or dye it after. This is what I've read on the shape ways forum. I can't see why they won't polish it and then dye it black, when they can do it blue.

I'm not saying Shapeways can't but my hypothosis is that they've tried at it doesn't work well.

Black is not like other colors. It's very sensitive to dye saturation. If you don't get enough dye in the part it either looks grey or you can see the underlying hue the black is made out of (in the case of Rit dye this is a deep purple-blue). I've had a lot of trouble getting a uniform black on parts I've polished. You can see the blue problem in this photo.


Ok that makes sense. Which puzzles is it that you are showing in that photo? Do you have a link to it?


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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Materiel on Shapeways
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:31 pm 
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David Treeman wrote:
Which puzzles is it that you are showing in that photo? Do you have a link to it?

That's Eric Vergo's Rex Skewb which he presented in this post and I showed polished in this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Material on Shapeways
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:17 am 
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I have dyed WSF polished black and it worked OK, but the parts were definitely not as black as plain WSF when dyed, and I dyed them for much longer than usual. I've noticed that if I take WSF and "process" it in any way e.g. cutting off raised ridges with a knife, sanding etc. then if you look carefully these portions of the part do not dye in the same way as the "raw" WSF. So any pre-processing of the WSF does effect the final colour.

On the other hand, I can't quite understand why Shapeways don't offer black polished when they offer red, pink, blue and purple - I suppose these colours are not defined by Shapeways and are purely subjective, so any dyeing variation is not important. I'd bet that if you ordered parts in any of these colours and had to have some missing pieces re-printed, there would not be a good colour match.

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Material on Shapeways
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:29 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I'm not saying Shapeways can't but my hypothosis is that they've tried at it doesn't work well. Black is not like other colors. It's very sensitive to dye saturation. ...
Instead of speculating, I just asked Shapeways. The issue is that they haven't found a reliable recipe for uniform BSF&P. How long should the pieces be tumbled, how long should they be dyed, which dye, ... Essentially the response was "Brandon is right".

I have dyed WSF&P pieces black (Dylon 8) and I also go mixed results, where I had to use a black marker to correct grayish pieces. Black is apparently a more difficult color to get uniform results.

Brandon, could you perhaps develop a good WSF&P recipe for Shapeways and for our community? Might a dye-tumble-dye recipe yield more uniform results?

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Black Strong & Flexible Polished Material on Shapeways
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:26 pm 
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I contacted Shapeways yesterday, today is their answer:
Dear Christophe,

We do not offer polished version of black strong and flexible at the moment.
We discovered that while colours adhere to polished models better, the black pigment is much more consistent and opaque on the unpolished models.
We are currently experimenting with different type of pigment, but it’s still work in progress.
If the tests show that polished models are really black and the quality is satisfactory, we will make sure to introduce this option on our website.

Thanks for understanding and your patience.

Adela


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