Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:57 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:53 pm
Okay, so I'm new here and have a few questions about making puzzles. I have a puzzle that I have been working on for the past couple weeks at school using Inventor that I plan on 3D printing from shapeways and submitting to TSA competition later this school year. I have all the pieces modeled out and functioning in an assembly and everything works as it should, but I'm unsure about the type of screw I should be using for the core. Could anyone tell me what size screws are typically use on a standard sized puzzle? The one I'm designing is about 3mm bigger than your standard 3x3 at 60 mm but that shouldn't affect much. I want the screws as well to be something that I could pick up at my local hardware store. I'll be posting pictures of the puzzle once it is completed. Any help is greatly appreciated :mrgreen:

_________________
Image

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ZemPuzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:50 pm
Location: Near Las Vegas, NV
Usually, most 3D printed puzzles are made with the M3 (metric) screw size, which for the core means 2.5mm holes are used. The washers are also the M3 size from what I've used.

_________________
My Youtube channel
My Shapeways Shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Here is a thread you may want to read:
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25743

I'm in the USA and I use M3 screws for all my puzzles. They are pretty much the standard. As for hole sizes to use...

I started at 2.75mm and after once stripping the hole on a puzzle I switched to 2.65mm. I've never had a problem at 2.65mm but I've now moved to 2.5mm. The hole seems tight to me but I haven't noticed any deformation and I'm pretty sure it will never be stripped.

I know Oskar started at 2.8mm and has since moved to 2.7mm which is what I think he uses now.

One comment... in the tread I pointed you to Brandon mentions US size "4" screws like 4-40. These are easier to find at most local hardware stores (at least in the US, no idea how easy they are to find outside the US) but if you have a good hardware store they SHOULD have some M3 screws too though generally their selection can be rather limited in the US. Worldwide I think the M3 screws are easier to find being metric and even if you can't find exactly what you want at your local hardware store they are very easy to get online at places like amazon.com which is where I get mine.

If you are making a puzzle for yourself only it probably makes no difference between US size "4" and M3 but if you want to sell it though Shapeways for example to a world wide customer base I'd recommend the M3 screws.

Then again in the last post of the tread I pointed you to if the hole is in the 2.5mm to 2.4mm range you can probably use either. 2.5mm seems tight for M3 and I've personally not used M3 screws in 2.4mm holes but others here have so I trust its not an issue. I've also personally not tried size "4" screws in the 2.5mm holes either as I don't have a supply of 4-40 screws on hand at the moment.

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Please be aware that screws cannot be "sized" simply be M3, M4 etc. I had numerous problems in the past getting the correct sizes and on one occasion never did. There are other things to consider such as head type, size etc.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:53 pm
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll try my best and see what happens as I go along. I'll post some pictures of what I have on monday when I get home from school. All I have left to do at this point is create the core but I'm not sure how long that will take as I only have access to Inventor before school and during 7th period. This winter though, I'll have enough money saved to get a high end computer and can work on projects from home on the student version. Also, I'm not sure if this design has been done before (I looked but couldn't find anything like it), but I guess I'll find out monday. It's a puzzle idea I've had for a couple years and since this is my first time making something like this I may need a little help.

_________________
Image

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ZemPuzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Tony Fisher wrote:
Please be aware that screws cannot be "sized" simply be M3, M4 etc. I had numerous problems in the past getting the correct sizes and on one occasion never did. There are other things to consider such as head type, size etc.

Tony, I'm glad you mentioned this - I am seriously thinking about buying something from Shapeways (pre-dyed to prevent being murdered by the present Mrs S) and they usually say needs M3 screws and give a length.

BUT they are bolts and not screws and the shops sell them in different head sizes/shapes and then if you need washers they go from tiny to gigantic. This has seriously put me off buying a Shapeways puzzle many times.

So I ask - what screws (+/- washers) do you actually need? UK suppliers would be best for me.

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Puzzlemad wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Please be aware that screws cannot be "sized" simply be M3, M4 etc. I had numerous problems in the past getting the correct sizes and on one occasion never did. There are other things to consider such as head type, size etc.

Tony, I'm glad you mentioned this - I am seriously thinking about buying something from Shapeways (pre-dyed to prevent being murdered by the present Mrs S) and they usually say needs M3 screws and give a length.

BUT they are bolts and not screws and the shops sell them in different head sizes/shapes and then if you need washers they go from tiny to gigantic. This has seriously put me off buying a Shapeways puzzle many times.

So I ask - what screws (+/- washers) do you actually need? UK suppliers would be best for me.

Ha ha I hope that was a general question to anyone because I haven't a clue. The biggest problem I had was trying to find the same items in the UK as described by someone in Europe or the USA. Pretty much given up on Shapeways puzzles (too much hassle) these days so a problem I won't have again.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:53 pm
Tony Fisher wrote:
Puzzlemad wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Please be aware that screws cannot be "sized" simply be M3, M4 etc. I had numerous problems in the past getting the correct sizes and on one occasion never did. There are other things to consider such as head type, size etc.

Tony, I'm glad you mentioned this - I am seriously thinking about buying something from Shapeways (pre-dyed to prevent being murdered by the present Mrs S) and they usually say needs M3 screws and give a length.

BUT they are bolts and not screws and the shops sell them in different head sizes/shapes and then if you need washers they go from tiny to gigantic. This has seriously put me off buying a Shapeways puzzle many times.

So I ask - what screws (+/- washers) do you actually need? UK suppliers would be best for me.

Ha ha I hope that was a general question to anyone because I haven't a clue. The biggest problem I had was trying to find the same items in the UK as described by someone in Europe or the USA. Pretty much given up on Shapeways puzzles (too much hassle) these days so a problem I won't have again.


Hm. Seems like someone should just come up with a recognized standard for screw sizes then for printed puzzles. It would make things a lot easier if all the major shapeways designers switched to using a certain type and size of screw; although I'm not sure about how one would go about enacting this standard, it would be helpful nonetheless.

_________________
Image

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ZemPuzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Tony Fisher wrote:
The biggest problem I had was trying to find the same items in the UK as described by someone in Europe or the USA. Pretty much given up on Shapeways puzzles (too much hassle) these days so a problem I won't have again.
I wouldn't think this should be a reason to give up on Shapeways. Most designs are printed and tested by the designer before they are offered for sale so there are screws out there which work. I most likely wouldn't buy someone else's design if they hadn't tested it first. That said even if you can't find the correct screws, I would think in the worst case you should just need to contact the designer and ask if you can obtain screws from them. Of the Shapeways puzzles I've purchased the one with the most critical screw requirements is the Clockwork 4x4x4. It uses 2 different sizes of screws, makes use of nuts, and has requirements on the screw head height. In that case I did just that... to make sure I got the correct screws I contacted Timur and he was happy to mail me the needed parts.
Zem wrote:
Seems like someone should just come up with a recognized standard for screw sizes then for printed puzzles.
Very unlikely to happen... nor do I think it should happen. If one were to dictate the use of M3 screws of a certain length then something like the Clockwork 4x4x4 would either need to be something like twice as big (and therefore much more expensive) or simeply not possible. The M2 screws in that puzzle need to be exactly 10mm long, off a mm or 2 then it simply wouldn't work.

I personally try to design puzzles which are as forgiving on the choice or screws as possible. My Bubbloid puzzles were designed to use M3-0.50 screws and in the description I state anything from 10mm to 18mm long would work. In reality the range is probably even bigger then that and there is no requirement on head shape or size. There is more then enough room in the design to acomodate any of the head styles I've seen. And to be totally honest, the use of screws is actually optional as the puzzle will hold itself together without them.

And in between the Clockwork 4x4x4 and the Bubbloid there is a whole range of how crital the screw denentions become. There is just too much varability from design to design, puzzle to puzzle, to force a standard like this.

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Last edited by wwwmwww on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:56 am
Location: The Netherlands
When I purchased the David Pitcher designs I contacted him asking exactly what kind they were. He was very nice and sent me a link with the exact screws (or rather, bolts) he uses for his puzzles :)

That is the easiest way to go: contact the designer and ask.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
I don't understand why there is so much concern about purchasing Shapeways prints because of screws. You can buy M3 screws anywhere in the world. Almost every custom puzzle accepts a huge range of screw lengths and head types. They're almost never an issue.

Prints cost almost always cost more than $50 and screws almost always cost around $5. If you buy screws that don't work, just use the issue as a guide for buying different screws.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:03 pm
bmenrigh wrote:
... screws almost always cost around $5.
Per 100 or 1000 samples, you mean? This is my source: http://www.rvspaleis.nl/169-din-84-a2-c ... verpakking. I always buy my screws per 1000, as buying fewer does not cost much less.

Oskar

_________________
Oskar's home page, YouTube, Shapeways Shop, Puzzlemaster, and fan club
Image.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question About Screw Sizes for 3D Printed Puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:53 pm
wwwmwww wrote:
Zem wrote:
Seems like someone should just come up with a recognized standard for screw sizes then for printed puzzles.
Very unlikely to happen... nor do I think it should happen. If one were to dictate the use of M3 screws of a certain length then something like the Clockwork 4x4x4 would either need to be something like twice as big (and therefore much more expensive) or simeply not possible. The M2 screws in that puzzle need to be exactly 10mm long, off a mm or 2 then it simply wouldn't work.

I personally try to design puzzles which are as forgiving on the choice or screws as possible. My Bubbloid puzzles were designed to use M3-0.50 screws and in the description I state anything from 10mm to 18mm long would work. In reality the range is probably even bigger then that and there is no requirement on head shape or size. There is more then enough room in the design to acomodate any of the head styles I've seen. And to be totally honest, the use of screws is actually optional as the puzzle will hold itself together without them.

And in between the Clockwork 4x4x4 and the Bubbloid there is a whole range of how crital the screw denentions become. There is just too much varability from design to design, puzzle to puzzle, to force a standard like this.

Carl


Sorry, I should've been clearer. I was more or less referring to standard 3x3 puzzles. I understand that some puzzles require different setups involving various screw sizes.

_________________
Image

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ZemPuzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media, Pouring Bees and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group