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 Post subject: Solving the Crazy2face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:27 am 
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Hi Crazycubers,

Just a few notes on solving the Crazy2face puzzles. I think it's about time we got this started. Over the past week I have solved the equivalent of the Crazy 333 Planet Cubes in the Crazy2face series.. I finally began working my way through the alphabet :) . I have had some conversation with Rline through PM and he has said that he was looking for a good naming scheme for the series.

The Crazy2face 333 series was introduced by Rline here and it is constructed from modified Crazy Planet 333s.

For me, solving the `Crazy2face Standard Planets` was a nice challenge. The Jupiter / Uranus is no challenge at all for Crazy Planet solvers, and I think this is where B4bandaging will come into its own. My order of difficulty for the Standard Crazy2face Planets is:

[Jupiter, Uranus, Saturn, Mercury, Neptune, Venus, Mars, Earth]

Seth's difficulty order:
Both Jupiter --> Both Uranus --> Neptune --> Saturn --> Mars (WG) --> Mars (BG) --> Venus --> Mercury --> Earth

Due to requests I'll make a quick shortcut reference point to some of my personal difficulty orders and strategies:

My personal difficulty /solving order for the Crazy333planets and Crazy Megaminx can be found here
Crazy Tetrahedron difficulty /solving order here
Crazy Tetrahedron solving methods here and Mercury with reduction video example and Uranus & Neptune

EDIT (After producing the Crazy2f/B4kits):

Rationale:

Since first posting the `puzzle identification and nomenclature` we’ve had some major changes in puzzle development, production of a kit, and importantly: Nomenclature.

One of the key factors to making this project work is for me to, make something inherently very complex, as simple and understandable as possible, and keep it all consistent, accessible and derived from existing things. Particularly, derived from existing Planet Nomenclature.

It’s imperative to me that the names of the puzzles `add meaning`, and describe how the puzzle will function. Because we are familiar with how the various Crazy333planets function, the Planet name is central to the Nomenclature. The Crazy2f/B4puzzles ought to have the attributes of the respective Crazy333planets.

This makes much more sense to me than a naming system that involves binary digits and alphabetic numerals. And, although it’s lengthier, it’s meaningful, so I’ve spent quite a bit of time trying to make it simple and accessible, while limiting duplicates and mirrors.

I’m actually quite confident that beginning to understand the Nomenclature will also be a good way to begin to understand the functionality of the puzzles and be quite helpful with solving them.

The Crazy2F/B4kit provides more combinations of bandaging than any other puzzle ever produced:

In saying that, I haven't tried to do bandaging for bandaging's sake either, I've tried to stay within the integrity of the experience of Crazy Planet Cubes.

10 separate elements
9 different forms of bandaging
8 face types


0face [bandaging+face type] Inner Circle Parts locked, outer collar rotates freely.
1face [bandaging+face type] Inner Circle Parts and outer collar rotate together.
2face [bandaging+face type] Inner Circle Parts and outer collar are permanently bandaged together making whole 333 pieces.
3face [bandaging+face type] A 2face with a 0face Centre Piece.
B4bandaging [external bandaging] All stickers have been made one colour, allowing easier face colour assignment and creating PGEparities and other interesting elements.
5face [bandaging+face type] Free rotation of Inner Circle pieces (555 piece type created) and free rotation of outer collar.
C1constraining [bandaging+face type] 90° constraining for 1 faces. (180° and 270° is possible but not provided).
C2constraining [bandaging+face type] 90° constraining for 2 faces. (180° and 270° is possible but not provided).
C5constraining [bandaging+face type] 90° constraining for 5 faces. (180° and 270° is possible but not provided).
PGEparity [element] Parity Generating Elements: created by stickering B4bandaging in one colour. Individual pieces and /or bandaged pieces can generate these parity elements due to `parity of indistinguishable pieces`.

Glossary:

Crazy333planet Cubes: [0face and 1face combinations] Invented by Dayan/MF8.

Crazy2face Cubes: [the addition of `2face/s` to Crazy333planet Cubes] Invented by rline.

CrazyB4cube: A puzzle with B4elements. [the addition of `3face, B4bandaging, 5face, C1-C2-C5constraining and/or PGEparity` to a Circle Cube(000), Crazy333planets or Crazy2face puzzles]. Invented by Burgo.

B4pink: The colour on the B4bandaging.

B4bandaging: The specific type of traditional bandaging applied to Circle Cube pieces, that CrazyB4cubes get their name from, in the kit they are the pieces that are stickered with B4pink (no other B4elements are B4bandaging). Coloured pieces may be substituted for the pink in any combination, this is `coloured B4bandaging`.

B4elements: All types of CrazyB4cube bandaging: 3face, B4bandaging, 5face, C1-C2-C5constraining or elements created by their use (PGEelements, specific or changed relative positions for CCs etc.).

Kit Contents:
Attachment:
Crazy2f B4kit.jpg
Crazy2f B4kit.jpg [ 379.52 KiB | Viewed 3179 times ]


Downloadables:

Part of making the way we talk about this consistent, understandable and simple, I have developed some easy to use templates and instructions. They are designed for users who have Adobe Photoshop through to simple editing programs such as MS Paint.

Link to mandatory Youtube video for assembling /disassembling kit parts (contains examples of types of faces):
http://youtu.be/iOO9pkayEZs

Link Youtube video for Functionality Improvement modification for C1 constraining parts: http://youtu.be/kNJgg5UZIfQ

Link to Face Types and Symbols explanation JPEG:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... yoE8Sc&v=3

Link to template instructions MS Word: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... OtTDKSmMQU

Link to a PSD TEMPLATE for use with Adobe Photoshop:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... r4qAXg3ppo

Link to a BMP TEMPLATE for use with MS Paint or other simple image editing programs:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... k65X2g&v=3

Introduction to Puzzle Types:

The following is a list of Puzzle types and their progression from `Standard Circle Cube` to `CrazyB4cube Planet`. The bolded types already exist and the unbolded types are being introduced here. You can see how CrazyB4cubes are always derived from underlying `base` puzzles:


1. Circle Cube(000): Standard Circle Cube
2. CrazyB4cube(000): Standard Circle Cube with B4 elements

3. Crazy333planet (Mercury>): Standard Crazy333planet Cubes
4. CrazyB4cube(33p) (Mercury>): Crazy333planet with B4elements

5. Crazy2face (Mercury>): The Iconic series of Crazy2face puzzles with 1x 2face

6. Crazy2face(2L>) (Mercury>): Crazy2face puzzles with 2 or more 2faces
7. CrazyB4cube(2L>) (Mercury>): Crazy2face puzzles with B4elements, (1-5x 2faces)
8. CrazyB4cube(RC): A special set of CrazyB4cubes with all 1faces in Planet allocation

Note: You may wonder why I try to make one word out of the Planet Names and Face Names: In the context of how we talk about them (in sentences), it’s easier to identify the puzzle when it’s grouped as one word. And it’s also easier to identify the `central numerals (B4, 2f, 3f, 5f)` when the second word is all lower case. Likewise, I join bracketed suffixes to the names they belong to. For example, which is easier to read: [Crazy 2 Face 2 L Uranus W O has 2 2 Faces] or [Crazy2face(2L) Uranus(WO) has 2x 2faces].

Crazy333planet (Mercury>)

Just for the standard crazy333planet cube series.. the original coloured plastic ones were sent to us in random colour configurations. We decided (on the original Crazy Planet thread here ) to reconfigure our puzzles (by changing the centres) to match the MF8 table, so that all of our puzzles were the same. This is the first time we decided to limit the configurations by colour scheme to make it easier to talk about. Probably some newer members don't know this, so I mentioned it.

Standard Crazy2face Planets:

The Standard Crazy2face Planets are an Iconic part of the series. These 11 puzzles will be identified and named individually, and therefore only have one colour scheme, and no other variants:

Crazy2face Mercury
Crazy2face Venus
Crazy2face Earth
Crazy2face Mars(BG)
Crazy2face Mars(WG)
Crazy2face Jupiter(RBGO)
Crazy2face Jupiter(BWGO)
Crazy2face Saturn
Crazy2face Uranus(BGO)
Crazy2face Uranus(WGO)
Crazy2face Neptune
Attachment:
Standard Crazy2face Puzzles.jpg
Standard Crazy2face Puzzles.jpg [ 1.5 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]


How to name Crazy2face(2L>) Planets:

These are Crazy2face puzzles with 2 or more 2faces. They have a suffix after the Puzzle Type representing the 2face allocation, and a suffix after the Planet Allocation representing the 1faces. There are many more puzzles in this category, and some may be identical in functionality.

For the Crazy2face puzzles, a name or diagram is needed (only). You may provide both (and it would be good etiquette to provide the name on a diagram), but both are not needed to adequately describe the puzzle.

The diagram only has Face Symbols and no Surface Mapping.
Attachment:
Crazy2face(2L) Mars(W) explanation.jpg
Crazy2face(2L) Mars(W) explanation.jpg [ 2.14 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

The name and diagram can be broken into its elements:

Step 1: Crazy2face is the Puzzle Type. There are 8 different Puzzle Types mentioned above. Crazy2face(2L>) (Mercury>) is one set of them.
Step 2: (2L) is the number and pattern of 2faces.
Step 3: Mars is the allocation of the Planet Type, describing the puzzle functionality.
Step 4: (W) is the distribution of 1faces.

Step 2: Naming the Patterns of 2faces (2L>):

This could have been done with Planet names too, but that would tell us nothing about the functionality of the puzzle, and would only add confusion. So I decided to make a simple suffix to describe the number and patterns of the 2faces. The numbers stand for how many 2faces there are, and the letters describe their pattern, whether it is: Linear(L) or Non-Linear(N).

The colours of the 2faces MUST match the Patterns of 2faces (2L>) diagram, otherwise the distribution of 1faces in step 4 won’t make sense.
Attachment:
2face Patterns.jpg
2face Patterns.jpg [ 794.27 KiB | Viewed 3179 times ]


Step 3: Allocation of Planet Types (Mercury>):

This identifies the solving similarity to the original Crazy333planet series. Any face that has the ability to break the bonds of the Standard Circle Cube(000), and therefore, to randomly distribute Inner Circle Pieces around the puzzle (move Inner Circle Pieces by 90* or more), is classified as a 1face. All other faces are classified as 0faces for the sake of Allocating the Planet Name. Please note that this principle continues into the CrazyB4cube bandaging definitions, and it’s very important to understand this.

For the Crazy2face series:
A 0face = 0face (in the binary `1 or 0` Crazy333planet Cube format Mercury>).
A 1face = 1face
A 2face = 1face

Dayan/MF8 Crazy333planet format Table:
Attachment:
CrazyPlusTypes[1].jpg
CrazyPlusTypes[1].jpg [ 35.64 KiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

Step 4: Distribution of 1faces (RBWGYO):

Because I don’t believe we need a diagram for the Crazy2face series, I think most people will just use the name. So naming the distribution of 1 faces is needed. We know where the 2faces are according to the (2L>) suffix. The distribution of 1faces will just be another suffix, but at the end of the Planet Name. The suffix describes the colours of the 1faces: (RBWGYO).

Interestingly: The Witeden Super 333 = Crazy2face(4L) Saturn (in the Crazy2face series it would have a BWGY colour scheme).
Attachment:
face types.jpg
face types.jpg [ 1.85 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

Attachment:
CrazyB4cube(2L) Jupiter(O) explanation.jpg
CrazyB4cube(2L) Jupiter(O) explanation.jpg [ 2.72 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

1. A diagram is now absolutely needed. Because of the additional bandaging possibilities, it’s impossible to adequately describe the puzzle (in a reasonable way) without a diagram. A [photograph + Puzzle name] is acceptable, but a diagram is better, and hopefully easy enough with the templates I provided.

2. CrazyB4cube Nomenclature is regressive. From the list of Puzzle Types you can see that B4bandaging can be applied to Crazy333planets > [CrazyB4cube(33p) (Mercury>)]or a Circle Cube(000) > [CircleB4cube(000)]. A B4diagram is needed when you do that.

3. The B4diagram is quite different to the crazy2face diagrams. It has 2 parts: A large central diagram that shows the Surface Mapping of the puzzle including the PinkB4bandaging (what the surface of the puzzle looks like), and a small diagram on the lower right that contains the kinds of Face Symbols that are on the Crazy2face diagrams (which demonstrate the behaviour of the faces only).

4. Face types beyond 0face, 1face and 2face are recorded below the name in the top right of the diagram, by a shorthand face name and face colour in the form: 3f-RBWGYO, B4b, 5f-RBWGYO, C1-RBWGYO, C2-RBWGYO, C5-RBWGYO. B4b is included when PinkB4bandaging is used. This is a somewhat superfluous step due to the Face Symbols diagram. It just adds accuracy to the name, and helps to link it to the diagram. It also allows people to possibly use a photograph instead of a diagram.

5. The allocation of Planet types. Any face that has the ability to randomly distribute Inner Circle Pieces around the puzzle (move Inner Circle Pieces by 90* or more), is classified as a 1face. All other faces are classified as 0faces for the sake of Allocating the Planet Name. This is the solving similarity to the original Crazy333planet series.

For the CrazyB4cube series:
A 0face = 0face (in the binary `1 or 0` Crazy333planet Cube format Mercury>).
A 1face = 1face
A 2face = 1face
A 3face = 0face
A 5face = 1face
A C1face= 1face
A C2face = 1face
A C5face = 1face

The Planet Allocation Number (1 or 0) is represented in the centre square of the Surface Mapping diagram.

Further Examples:
Attachment:
nomenclature example.jpg
nomenclature example.jpg [ 2.54 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

How to Construct a Puzzle in the Series:

We don’t just need to know how to `name a puzzle`, but how to `construct a puzzle`. How to progress through the puzzles from simple to difficult. How to efficiently construct them in an order without laborious disassembly. How to minimise duplicates and consistently compare puzzles.

The idea for how we should build and progress through the puzzles efficiently comes from the Crazy2face series as a standalone: before adding any of the B4elements. You can progress through the different patterns of 2face puzzles, from the Iconic Standard Crazy2face puzzles with 1x 2face, through 2L > 2N > 3L > 3N > 4L > 4N > 5. You can change 2faces (which is the laborious part), and then solve all of the associated Planets within the group (which just involves quickly changing centres).

This also helps us to limit the puzzles to a predictable format. There will still be some identical and mirrored puzzles, but they will be in a more limited and visible format. It was the best compromise that I could come up with. Doing this really takes a big cut out of the duplicates pile, while keeping the nomenclature sensible and meaningful.

There are a limited set of puzzle bases to start from. This time I have taken the Puzzle Types and highlighted the CrazyB4cube sets. You can see that CrazyB4cubes are constructed using the format and colour restrictions of underlying puzzles (They are `other puzzles` with B4elements added):

1. Circle Cube(000): Standard Circle Cube Makes vv

2. CrazyB4cube(000): Standard Circle Cube with B4 elements [The colour scheme can take any format because there are no 2faces]

3. Crazy333planet (Mercury>): Standard Crazy333planet Cubes Makes vv

4. CrazyB4cube(33p) (Mercury>): Crazy333planet with B4elements [The colour scheme is restricted to the Planet format from the Dayan/MF8 planet table]

5. Crazy2face (Mercury>): The Iconic series of Crazy2face puzzles with 1x 2face

6. Crazy2face(2L>) (Mercury>): Crazy2face puzzles with 2 or more 2faces Makes vv

7. CrazyB4cube(2L>) (Mercury>): Crazy2face puzzles with B4elements, (1-5x 2faces) [The colour scheme and 2face format is restricted by the Patterns of 2faces Table (2L>)].

8. CrazyB4cube(RC): CrazyB4cube with all 1faces in Planet allocation [This is a special set that may or may not have 2faces and therefore may or may not have colour restrictions due to 2face allocations].

So, when you design a puzzle, you need to work FROM the 2face allocation. You decide the 2face allocation first, because this limits the colour scheme of the puzzle. And limiting the colour scheme limits duplicates, and allows more efficient progression and comparison.

Suggested Uses:
Attachment:
Suggested Uses.jpg
Suggested Uses.jpg [ 8.66 MiB | Viewed 3179 times ]

Crazy ½ Moon:

This idea was first suggested by Andy here
And a physical version was subsequently made by Evgeniy here

From time to time I would expect specific popular versions of the CrazyB4cube to possibly get their own `nicknames` as well as having a CrazyB4cube name. I see no conflict with that, that’s a natural thing, and please feel free to be creative.

Broader Uses:

It wasn’t my original intention, but the diversity of the nomenclature can be applied to describe various 335 puzzles that can be seen as super5faces. The 335 puzzles can therefore be accurately named, and would be of the type `CrazyB4cube(RC)` and the superfaces would need clarification by adding `s`. For example, the standard 335 would be: CrazyB4cube(RC) 4L, 5f-RsOs Technically it wouldn’t matter `how` the face was supered, just `that it is supered`.

Note: Bandaging the external babyface layers of a 335 variant, would be the equivalent of bandaging the inner circle components on the CrazyB4cube puzzles.

Special thanks to:
Rline for the Crazy2face concept.
JackRTully for initially suggesting using constraining.
TomZ for giving permission to use constraining.
Andychilly for proof reading.

I have made another thread here for discussions on how to use the nomenclature, to save cluttering the solving thread. Please try to understand the nomenclature before posting in the solving thread, but I don’t want to exclude people because they don’t understand how to name the puzzles either. Comments and suggestions are welcome, this may evolve.


Have fun with your Crazy2F/B4kits.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Hey Burgo

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the effort and time you've put into this. I haven't been able to pursue this as I've wanted in recent times, and your post is completely inspiring me to do so! Awesome stuff. I really hope others will pull out their 2-face kits. And for those who haven't made them or want to make them, I did make a video here showing how to do so. I know also that Burgo came up with a more streamlined method to make the kit, but I'm not sure whether he posted a video or post showing how.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Great post Burgo!

I must pull these out again. I did play around with a few variations when I first made the kit, mostly based around the Jupiter and Uranus planets to begin with. I intended to do more but I got sidetracked by other puzzles and life distractions :)

I'm out of the country at the moment but will try to remember to get back to them when I get home :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:43 pm 
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What remarkable timing! Here is what I had set out on my workbench yesterday evening:
Attachment:
Crazy-2-Face-Prep-1_sm.png
Crazy-2-Face-Prep-1_sm.png [ 669.31 KiB | Viewed 5079 times ]

I wasn't able to get started tonight, but I should get this kit done over the next few days. Of course, I'm following this thread with great interest! :mrgreen:

I assume that I can make all the variants including 4N and 4L if I use Burgo's "split pieces" method. If I want to make the "everything" kit that rline set out, where does it stop with just two puzzles? Also Burgo, how are the split pieces holding up to repeated disassembly and assembly?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:00 am 
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good luck

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Last edited by grigr on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:44 am 
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Attachment:
crazy3face(2L) Saturn(RBO)(3Y).jpg
crazy3face(2L) Saturn(RBO)(3Y).jpg [ 157.81 KiB | Viewed 4865 times ]
martywolfman wrote:
I'm struggling with this one. I've got all the edges and corners reduced, but that took me a while. I can't get it solved at the moment without messing the paired pieces up though. A WIP this one :)
Sorry to quote you from another thread and bring up the past Marty, but how did you go with this one? It's the kind of thing I was talking about when I said the 3faces `change the Planet-relationship fundamentally`.. It has taken it from acting as a Jupiter to acting more like a Saturn. So the edges on a Saturn need to have their orientation accounted for. I might make this next and have a go at it too :) .

I really wanted to keep as much of the original diagrams as I could and I hesitated to change yours because it has a nice simplicity about it, but in the end I wanted something that would suit all variants, moving on to the B4. I have a template that I will make available for people to use too:
Attachment:
crazy2face template coloured.jpg
crazy2face template coloured.jpg [ 73.1 KiB | Viewed 5043 times ]


Pete The Geek wrote:
Burgo, how are the split pieces holding up to repeated disassembly and assembly?
As usual Pete, there's more to the brief than first stated :) . I made the diagrams and templates through experience, most of which I haven't written about. I found, by working through the puzzles, that if we kept `the patterns of 2faces` regular, and building on each other, it would allow us to work through groups of 2faces (doing the variations of the Planets within them). To change to the Planets only requires changing centres.. it's really fast and painless. The `jump` to a different 2face group is slightly bigger, but for the most part you should be able to do it by 1 2face at a time. Limiting disassembly and reassembly considerably, compared to a random progression.

With what I've done so far, I haven't had to change a single 2face yet!

As we predicted earlier.. stickers are the problem already for me. I would LOVE MF8 to be listening to us and produce another coloured plastic run of Circle Cubes with a matching pull apart stickerless 333 Cube, (and some pink B4 bandaging to match :wink: .. this might just give away a further development I had planned :o .)

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:47 am 
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Burgo wrote:
martywolfman wrote:
I'm struggling with this one. I've got all the edges and corners reduced, but that took me a while. I can't get it solved at the moment without messing the paired pieces up though. A WIP this one :)
Attachment:
crazy3face(2L) Jupiter(RBO)(3Y).jpg
Sorry to quote you from another thread and bring up the past Marty, but how did you go with this one? It's the kind of thing I was talking about when I said the 3faces `change the Planet-relationship fundamentally`.. It has taken it from acting as a Jupiter to acting more like a Saturn. So the edges on a Saturn need to have their orientation accounted for. I might make this next and have a go at it too :) .

I really wanted to keep as much of the original diagrams as I could and I hesitated to change yours because it has a nice simplicity about it, but in the end I wanted something that would suit all variants, moving on to the B4. I have a template that I will make available for people to use too:
Attachment:
crazy2face template coloured.jpg




I never actually finished solving it Burgo. Sine you say it become like Saturn, that could well be why. I never actually finished all the standard crazy planets, I really really must at some point! having solved that might help with this one I got stuck on. That was the point at which I got sidetracked I think. As for the diagram, I really don't care - I wasn't intending it to be a standard or anything, as long as there's a way everyone can understand, I'm happy-I did steal your 3-face idea after all anyway! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:23 am 
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Hi Crazypuzzlers,

Rline and I have decided to make some [Crazy2face + CrazyB4cube] kits available for purchase.

I have moved the details of the offer to here because I wanted to keep the solving thread for solving conversations. In case it filled with talk about the kits.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:20 am 
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Hi Marty,

Just a follow up to say that I solved the Crazy3face(2L)Saturn(RBO)(3Y) tonight. It's about the same difficulty as the Crazy2face Saturn. Changing between faces isn't as much work as I thought it would be either (Pete). The only thing is, you'll want to go light on the lube with this puzzle set or changing this bit is messy :wink: .

Another important thing I need to add: I was always unhappy with the Crazy3face nomenclature, because it didn't accurately describe the fundamental puzzle.. Solving this puzzle prompted me to go back and edit all the diagrams and text associated with this and change it to reflect the Crazy3face puzzles more accurately.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:27 am 
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grigr wrote:
You can alssemble this puzzle set from some my puzzle:
Do the circle faces use standard Crazy 3x3 stickers?

Does this mean that the X-Cube is the equivalent of one of the Crazy 2-Face series? Crazy2face(2N) Venus (W) <- see if I got this nomenclature.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:42 am 
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Hi Pete,

The short answer is: No, The 335 series are not Crazy2face puzzles.

The long answer is:

I will go into some detail here, to help people who are new to these puzzles along.

What the external faces on the 335 are is: Not a 0face, and not a 1face either, but rather they are a `free-face`, or `external pieces`, so they are part of the outer 555.. the pieces are free to turn as an external face on their own.

A 0face is a Standard Circle Cube face, where the centre circle parts are `locked` (and the Centre Piece is fused to the core), in this circumstance the pieces inside the circles represent `internal parts`.. the orientation of the centres, and the sides of the edges.

The 1faces on the Crazy Planet series actually scramble the inner parts, because they act as a normal 333 cube. This is created by bandaging the Inner Circle parts `to the centres`.. notice the square shaft on the Centre piece. What this does is break the relationship of the` inner circle parts` from their `real` positions.. it’s a bit like taking the stickers off, especially considering the Inner Circle pieces don’t have a specific position.

Solving the Crazy 333 Series, you can reduce the puzzles to a Standard 333, in which you restore the Whole Edges and Corners. Or you can reduce the puzzles to a Standard Circle Cube, in which you restore the relationships of the Inner Circles. Or you can solve it by piece type, which is like the CCL (Circle Corners Last) method.

The 2faces are just whole Standard 333 pieces that cause blocking in the movement of 0faces.

A 3face is the strangest phenomenon.. It is an unusual bandaged situation for the solved state, created by a 0face Centre Piece being surrounded by 2face pieces. It acts as a 0face according to it’s Centre Piece. Typically, this would be a blocked situation during a Crazy2face solve, but now it has become the solved state.

This brings us to the 335, where the centre pieces are extended to the outer layers, but all relationships to Centre Pieces and Inner Circle pieces is broken (the Centre Piece shaft is rounded and unfused from the core).. The pieces are independent, and therefore become `external`. So we have moved through the 333 cube.. 0=(internal) 333 >to the 2=(surface) standard 333 >to the 335=standard555 (external).

It is possible to use 335 pieces on the Crazy2face puzzle. How you would do it is to glue solid cubies to the Inner Edges and CCs (Circle Corners), and either round off a 1face centre shaft, or cut through a 0face centre shaft. Any pieces that are in the Circle Centre on that face will spin freely. We could call it a Crazy5face because of it’s relationship to the 555, but unfortunately it would make the puzzles more trivial.

The interesting thing that Evgeniy (Grigr) has done with his 335 series is to make the Extreme 335 modifications (but as usual we are inhibited by the general lack of interest in more difficult bandaged puzzles and it looks like they won’t be mas produced :( ). With these puzzles different centre pieces are applied to make 0 and 1 centres on those faces that have external 335 pieces (I assume). This `does` create versions `like` the Crazy2face puzzles where the outer 335 pieces are now Inner Circle pieces with a specific `super` position (But they have their own interesting and unique attributes and I won’t blow the movie for you). But the standard 335 series puzzles, they aren`t the Crazy2face, and either are the Extreme 335 versions (but they are quite close- I presume).

And Pete, the nomenclature you mentioned, the Crazy2face puzzle (I think) you were referring to would be Crazy2face(2N)Venus there's no need to mention (W) because Y and W are both 2faces represented on the 2N diagram. I'm still learning to use it too :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:07 am 
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andychilly wrote:
Thanks Burgo,

Just a quick thought,

When I got my CT DIY Bandage kit, all I wanted was a huge list and diagrams of all puzzles so that I could set myself a task of solving them all and then I have some idea of progress and achievement/

When the puzzles start getting delivered would we be able to delegate someone to put together a Rolling PDF file with a uniform list of puzzle variations and a 2 image diagram of how to set it up?

I dont know it its just me, but the list I made myself using the images posted on here for the DIY Bandage certainly adds to the enjoyment as I tick them off and date when I solved them. But it took a long time sifting through posts all over the forum finding people who have posted variations and then I was unsure if they had already been made and named differently and would have to go through my list to see if it was already in there.

Basically, Burgo, I essentially need some order in my life when it comes to these puzzles, I know this would be alot of work but I need something official so I can say I have solved every puzzle from Burgo/rlines Volume 1 book hahahah!

I know it sounds like im starting to delegate myself but With my full time job and full time family of 5 I dont think people would be happy with my level of progress.

Thoughts anyone?

Hi Andy,

I don’t mind putting a link to an online rolling PDF in the first post on this thread for anyone who wants to start and maintain one.. just send me a link by PM. But I'm suspicious that the scope here is not compatible.

I think you might find that the naming system I have put in place is very useful for identifying the meaningful attributes of puzzles `at a glance` as you move through the `patterns of 2faces`. It would be logical to move through the `patterns of 2faces`: Crazy333planet > Crazy2face > 2L > 2N > 3L > 3N > 4N > 4L, and attempting the different Planets for each set as you go. This would allow you to efficiently transform your puzzle without changing very many pieces at a time as you go.

It might also be a good idea, likewise, to add various types of bandaging as you go through this.. particularly if you see an opportunity where the bandaging could contribute to the particular puzzle.

There are just going to be so many different puzzles that talking about them by types might be the best way. Like the CT kit, the B4 kit is going to be almost impossible to compile anything completely comprehensive and meaningful at the same time. Combinations of the nomenclature in the CT kit, and here, would add meaning to the puzzle names. For example, to `Clock` or `Fuse` a particular Planet variant with the B4 kit, is a meaningful way to talk about it. This identifies useful attributes, rather than being comprehensive in a numerical way.

There is, also, only the need to add either one diagram, or a name, for a lot of puzzles (the need to photograph the puzzle from both angles is superseded). The B4 kit will require both a name and a diagram (a photo is not enough- but could be useful sometimes). And I have provided a template so we can be uniform and to make it easy. A basic knowledge of Photoshop or even Paint can be used to make the diagrams from it.

It’s important to note: Some of the aspects of nomenclature pinpoint very useful attributes (for example, the Planet type and Number of 2faces tell us a lot about it’s character) and some of the nomenclature is only there to specifically identify particular variants, but doesn’t really identify meaningful attributes (for example, the suffixes after the Planet names).

That’s just my early thoughts.
Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
Hi Pete,The short answer is: No, The 335 series are not Crazy2face puzzles.
Burgo, I really appreciate your detailed explanation, it certainly cleared things up in my mind.

It is tempting to just start with Mercury as the first one on the list, but as I understand it, Jupiter would be easier.

I'm just waiting for the paint to finish drying and I'm going to get started:
Attachment:
Crazy-2-Face-Paint-2_sm.png
Crazy-2-Face-Paint-2_sm.png [ 699.44 KiB | Viewed 4649 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Hi Pete,

Round the sharp corners off the small CC stickers and the Outer Edge stickers before you put them on.

I worked A >
Jupiter and Uranus are pretty easy.
Mercury is a good solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:25 am 
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Here we go! My starter kit should get me 16 puzzles from the list:
Attachment:
Crazy-2-Face-Initial-Kit_sm.png
Crazy-2-Face-Initial-Kit_sm.png [ 529.32 KiB | Viewed 4591 times ]


After I took the beauty shot, I got out my screwdriver and changed out some centres to make a Crazy2-Face Jupiter (you can work out how many I had to change from my previous photo)! Scrambling was a bit of a challenge, but voilĂ :
Attachment:
Crazy-2-Face-Jupiter-Scramble_sm.png
Crazy-2-Face-Jupiter-Scramble_sm.png [ 701.93 KiB | Viewed 4591 times ]



I noticed that when 2-face pieces are in the 0-face (white) layer, it won't turn at all. Hmmm.

Solving seems OK. After some fumbling around, I came up with some strategies and I have the endgame:
Attachment:
Jupiter-Last-Step-Comp_sm.png
Jupiter-Last-Step-Comp_sm.png [ 469.1 KiB | Viewed 4587 times ]


From here, a simple trick and the beginner's method... done! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Pete the Geek wrote:
I noticed that when 2-face pieces are in the 0-face (white) layer, it won't turn at all. Hmmm.


Yep... a 0 face is bandaged to the core so the face won't turn. However, you can still turn a collar of pieces around the rim of the face, providing you have a full ring so nothing is blocked.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Wow, I just solved Crazy2Face Uranus Uranus (E-010121)! :shock: :mrgreen:

This project has made me a much better "crazy" solver. After I solved Crazy2Face Jupiter, I decided to have a shot at Crazy 3x3 Jupiter. My Crazy 3x3 was already set for Jupiter. After the 2-Face version, it seemed easy. When I looked at my old notes for Jupiter I found a mess of algorithms that I obviously copied from the Crazy solving thread. No wonder I found it so hard before! And I didn't get any further than Jupiter in the Crazy 3x3 series. Obviously I didn't find it much fun to just blindly apply algorithms.

So... when I took on Crazy2Face Uranus I also set up my Crazy 3x3 for Uranus and did a "parallel solve" (my name for solving two related puzzles at the same time). It so happens that I solved Crazy 3x3 Uranus first. What a thrill! Crazy2Face Uranus was a bit harder - rotated corners in the last layer blocked me from doing an M turn, but I got past it. And I come away with a MUCH deeper understanding of these great puzzles.

Strategies I'm using:
[spoiler]
3x3 Beginner's Method
Fused Cube Methods
Edge-Bandaged Cube Methods
[/spoiler]
No complicated algs so far.

Next up: Crazy2Face Mars (D010120)

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Last edited by Pete the Geek on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Pete the Geek wrote:
This project has made me a much better "crazy" solver. After I solved Crazy2Face Jupiter, I decided to have a shot at Crazy 3x3 Jupiter. My Crazy 3x3 was already set for Jupiter. After the 2-Face version, it seemed easy. When I looked at my old notes for Jupiter I found a mess of algorithms that I obviously copied from the Crazy solving thread. No wonder I found it so hard before! And I didn't get any further than Jupiter in the Crazy 3x3 series. Obviously I didn't find it much fun to just blindly apply algorithms.

Pete, I guess you're starting to see why some of us were so enraptured with the series. I'm really glad the crazy 2-face is starting to take on some life and I'm eagerly awaiting my B4 kit from Burgo to see what surprises he has in store with that!

I have to admit that seeing your shiny new crazy 2-face cube made me want to get cracking on mine again. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:25 am 
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Hi Pete,

Burgo wrote:
My order of difficulty.. is:

[Jupiter, Uranus, Saturn, Mercury, Neptune, Venus, Mars, Earth]
It's probably a good time to remind you of this little part of the 1st post (it's easy to miss, right at the bottom).. I'd go with Saturn or Mercury next.. Maybe Mercury would be a good choice if you're still doing `algo solves` for the Crazy333Planets.

Incidentally, E is Crazy2face Uranus(BGO)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:37 am 
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I don't know if this has been discussed or if it is even possible/ pointless?

But when setting up a 2 face if you were to make a half moon effect using half circle pieces and half solid and then those circle pieces could only split if you made them into a complete circle wouldn't that make for a very difficult puzzle?

A face that could only be solved by combining two faces together?

here is crude example....am I missing a trick here is this possible?

Attachment:
halfmoongreen.jpg
halfmoongreen.jpg [ 27.94 KiB | Viewed 4423 times ]


apologies if Im being stupid and missing something. I have a tendency to overlook the obvious.


ADDITION: looking back I guess this must have been how burgo/rline came to the b4 bandaging idea....sorry if im rehashing old news


ADDITION 2: if this is something that hasn't been fully discussed yet can I suggest "crazy moon" for the name :D

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:47 am 
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Hi Andy,

This is how 2face bandaging works and a little bit of B4. But please don't start a guessing competition or the surprises might get spoiled.. we have a lot planned.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:53 am 
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no problem,

im like a kid before xmas at the moment lol

usually when i have a puzzle on order i cycle through loads or youtube videos getting to know the puzzle so well.

I have mild OCD where if I know something is coming to me I obsess about it and keep wanting to ask people questions untill I can build up a nice mental picture in my head.

all ive been able to do is watch rlines youtube vid on his 2face kit.

IM DIEING HERE! LOL

but no worries, this topic will be buzzing like mad later on in the year

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:48 am 
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Burgo wrote:
My order of difficulty.. is:

[Jupiter, Uranus, Saturn, Mercury, Neptune, Venus, Mars, Earth]


I find this order rather interesting. I found it much easier to work out how to extend methods starting from Jupiter and Mercury along the adjacent faces path (Uranus, Neptune, Earth) than along the path with opposite faces (Saturn, Mars, Venus). Earth I found to be as easy an extension from Mercury as Uranus is from Jupiter (although I do seem to be more prone to slip-ups when solving Earth... circle cube reductions require a good amount of focus and discipline). Saturn was the bigger step for me (Mars and Venus following from that), as the lack of a corner with all three faces the same made me have to come up with a new approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:12 am 
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I think it depends on your method for Saturn/Mars. I have really refined my reduction methods for Saturn and this translates to Mars, this probably helps me see them as easier. Earth on the other hand has blocking everywhere due to the 2x 2faces and so many 0faces, still.. I love the Earth pattern. I didn't try RC reduction on Earth yet.. my puzzle is presently butchered to make prototypes for the B4, so I don't have a working puzzle myself at the moment :( .

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 Post subject: Crazy2Face Saturn (RO)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Summary: please share your tips on solving Crazy2Face Saturn (BWG)! 8-)

I'm working on Crazy2Face Saturn (BWG) <- My attempt at specifying J-011120 from rline's chart

I have some questions and possibly some observations.

I've been able to solve Crazy 3x3 Saturn quite a few times. I do edge pairing, followed by corner pairing, followed by the reduction to 3x3x2 (Domino) as shown by Burgo. No real issues solving it, but one thing I noticed is that sometimes I have an edge (or perhaps a pair of edges) flipped that defy easy correction. In cases like this I go back to solving just the edges (i.e. an edges-only 3x3 solve) and then repair as necessary.

Now I'm working on Crazy2Face Saturn (BWG) and... :mrgreen: not a lot of room to work! I seem to get a flipped edge every time. My working theory on why the edges get flipped is that it has something to do with the particular pairing of the inner-circles. SAV calls this "false equivocation". Or perhaps it has to do with using Burgo's circle 3-cycle algorithm (very hard to do on this C2F) and putting the circles in the wrong orbit. In any case, is there a way to flip an edge without breaking its pairing? In the photo the Red-Green edge is flipped. The red face is a 0. In order to flip that edge in place, I would have to turn the red face, but this will break the circle pairings. I can't find a way to get pieces like that into place and I'm wondering if there really is a way or if it is some kind of reduction parity issue.
Attachment:
C2F-Saturn-Flipped-Edge_sm.png
C2F-Saturn-Flipped-Edge_sm.png [ 254.33 KiB | Viewed 4240 times ]


My second question about Crazy2Face Saturn (BWG) is a biggie: is it really possible to do a reduction solve of this puzzle or should I be looking for commutators (I've had a bit of success in this area)? I've managed to get all the edges paired quite a few times. I've also even managed to get quite a few corners paired, but it is tricky. It would be nice to know if I am on the right track. Still, in every solve thus far I've have a flipped edge that - unless I find a way to fix or avoid it - makes the puzzle unsolvable.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Yes! Crazy2face Saturn(BWG) is correct.. but because it's the only version of `Saturn` within the basic A-K chart: We can just shorten it to Crazy2face Saturn to make it easier (because it's understood that the colour format should match the A-K chart).

Thankyou so much Pete for trying to use the nomenclature. I actually have a lot of changes to the nomenclature `to be released` and I've tried to keep it as simple and natural in its development as possible (but this basic stuff is the same). I have much better tables and presentation of the way that it works too, hopefully it will be easier then.

As for the edge flipping.. reduction is possible. I used the [Sune U] method of flipping 2 edges.. as you said.. it's tight. This method is explained in my Saturn333 Playlist on my Youtube.. It's called (Sune Edge Flipping Reduction). It's not straightforward like that though, because of the yellow face, some adaption is needed.

Glad to see you're getting into the meat and potatoes :) .
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:14 am 
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Burgo wrote:
As for the edge flipping.. reduction is possible. I used the [Sune U] method of flipping 2 edges.. as you said.. it's tight. This method is explained in my Saturn333 Playlist on my Youtube.. It's called (Sune Edge Flipping Reduction). It's not straightforward like that though, because of the yellow face, some adaption is needed.Burgo.
I have *finally* solved Crazy2face Saturn(BWG)! :mrgreen: Thanks to Burgo for helping me overcome a perplexing difficulty with flipped edges. And of course a big thanks to rline for setting all this fun in motion. According to my notes I set my Crazy2Face up as Saturn on Sept. 2nd and solved it today in the first minutes of Sept. 14. In fact, I spent the first week learning how to solve Crazy 3x3 Saturn. This was very interesting and I like both the Crazy 3x3 and Crazy2Face series a lot now that I see them as achievable, even if they still present a challenge.

So far Crazy2Face Saturn(BWG) has been the most fun. I'm glad I was able to use reduction, as that makes the most sense to me. There is a lot going on with this puzzle and it is quite the challenge to keep those pesky 2-face edges and corners out of the way.

Now my tiny contribution to the thread...
How to avoid getting flipped edges:
[spoiler]
When pairing edges with inner circle edges and corners with inner circle corners only turn the 0-faces in increments of 180°. If you turn them in increments of 90° it will cause flipped edges.
[/spoiler]

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:05 am 
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Hi Pete,

One of my videos shows that method, it will keep your outer edges in the correct orientation orbits (or sinusoidal paths), but unless you get lucky, you'll need an inner edge 3cycle to finish them off. With Crazy2face Saturn(BWG) this could be a pain.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Well, a little update...

After my success with Crazy2Face Saturn(BWG) - with a lot of help from Burgo's Crazy 3x3 videos - I've been working steadily on Crazy2Face Neptune(GO) [C-000121]. In the process, I had to learn to solve both Crazy 3x3 Mercury and Crazy 3x3 Neptune by reduction, again with quite a bit of help from Burgo's videos. After a week of trying, I've made some progress and developed some ideas and useful strategies for Neptune. So far I haven't gotten very far in the solve, but it is just a matter of time. I encourage everyone in the strongest possible way to try this puzzle for yourself!

Now I will describe my efforts and experiments hidden with spoiler tags:

[SPOILER]I've been experimenting with where to put the 2-face pieces. The most progress I've made so far is when I put them all together on one face. I also find putting the edges together (i.e. "Yellow Cross") helps reduce the number of times I get blocked. The solve is like a maze and it is very easy to hit a dead-end where every needed turn is blocked. :mrgreen:

One encouraging strategy that I've been working on is first assembling the complete 2-face as a "solved layer"; I finally worked out a way to get the 2-face edges paired with their inner circles, so that is progress. The next step would be to assemble the "Neptune corner", the 2x2 block where the three 0-faces join, following Burgo's Crazy 3x3 Neptune reduction method.

I really want to test various algorithms with the puzzle in the solved state, but that would require me to abandon this scramble and disassemble the puzzle. Not quite ready for that.

[/SPOILER]

I welcome some hints and ideas. In an earlier version of this post I said I was going to give Neptune a break, but I've made a bit of progress today, so I'll keep going. In looking at Burgo's ranked list of Crazy2Face difficulty, it seems I've skipped Mercury, so if I continue to struggle with Neptune, I will reset to that puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:38 am 
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Hi Friends,

I have updated the first post in this thread ^^ with the new nomenclature and description of the kit contents. For those people who don't have a kit, there are a few youtube videos under `downloadables` to give you an idea of the kit, and rline is about to upload an unboxing video in the marketplace thread here soon.

The topic is now declared open to discussion. A few people haven't received their kits yet, but it's now their choice whether to read and participate or not, I hope I haven't spoiled their surprise :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:46 am 
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Freedom!!!! Ive completed all Crazy(333)planets In the time between receiving the kit and this updated post. I am now sat here staring at my Crazy2face Mercury, ready to scramble.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:07 am 
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Burgo wrote:
...rline is about to upload an unboxing video in the marketplace thread soon. The topic is now declared open to discussion.

Woohoo!!! :D
It feels good that this is finally going to be out there for everyone to see.
I did indeed post a link to the unboxing I made in the marketplace thread. You can find the thread here and a direct link to the video here.

As I've said on that thread, the video goes for just over 30 minutes, but it's an extensive kit :lol: I know Burgo and I have been looking forward to the contents of the kit being made public.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:00 am 
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Fantastic! I did a full jumbled scramble of my Master Curvy Copter AND managed to solve it - thus proving it wasn't a fluke! Omg! It was much much tougher though with jumbling. BUT NOW I am ready for this series.

I did the crazy 3x3 cubes a year ago and have very little recollection of them - in fact I barely remember yesterday! :shock:

I have seen the proposed order of the 2 face planets in the edited first post and am wondering what I should do. Would I be best re-doing the crazy cube Jupiter then doing the 2face version and then going up the set crazy3x3 then 2 face etc? Or should I do all the 2 faces in order? Or maybe 2 face/3face etc?

I would love a proposed sequence to go through! That way I wouldn't miss any.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:45 am 
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Hi Kevin,

A lot of people are going to want to know this, so it'll be good to quote from the post:
How to construct a puzzle in the series wrote:
The idea for how we should build and progress through the puzzles efficiently comes from the Crazy2face series as a standalone: before adding any of the B4elements. You can progress through the different patterns of 2face puzzles, from the Iconic Standard Crazy2face puzzles with 1x 2face, through 2L > 2N > 3L > 3N > 4L > 4N > 5. You can change 2faces (which is the laborious part), and then solve all of the associated Planets within the group (which just involves quickly changing centres).
Of course, everyone is going to have a different thought about how they want to progress through.

You could add B4elements as you do certain puzzles in the prescribed order and get ideas.

Actually, the 5face and constraining elements won't always make the puzzles more difficult (although sometimes they do). Most of the time they will help the puzzles become more accessible. If you find something too hard, you could think about adding an element to make it easier! So there's a nice hint for your progression :) .

If you have the ability to make the Crazy333planets, it might be a good way to make the equivalent Crazy333planet and the equivalent Standard Crazy2face at the same time and muck around with both. This will give you the feel for the more difficult version, and allow you to try out alternate methods on the equivalent puzzle first.

Either way, my advice is to start with the Cazy333planets if you haven't done them in a while, then progress through the Iconic Standard Crazy2face series in the difficulty order prescribed. My youtube might be helpful for methods that are transferable to the Crazy2face puzzles :wink: . It's set out under playlists for individual Crazy333planet cubes, and more than one method is commonly given in that format.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Oh God, I'm already stuck!
Crazy2face Mercury, the first on the list :-(
I've failed myself.
I just dont know where to start.

Help!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:34 pm 
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AndyChilly wrote:
Oh God, I'm already stuck!
Crazy2face Mercury, the first on the list :-(
I've failed myself.
I just dont know where to start.

Help!
Watch Burgo's Crazy 3x3 Mercury tutorial. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I can solve a Mercury 3x3x3 but with the 2face its thrown me completely.

Although I've just done the inner edges so I may be on my way!! :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:09 pm 
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These puzzles are going to force you to begin to understand the crazy puzzles in a more fundamental way. A lot of techniques will become difficult if not impossible, so you might need to rethink what you know :) . Hopefully they will take some thinking :wink: . They certainly made me think, but that was quite a few months ago now, and as Konrad pointed out, I might need to revisit them, because unlike him, I didn't take any notes :lol: .

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:34 am 
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AndyChilly wrote:
Oh God, I'm already stuck!
Crazy2face Mercury, the first on the list :-(
I've failed myself.
I just dont know where to start.

Help!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't start at mercury! The order of the planets from the sun is NOT the order to solve. See the top of the thread for a proposed order.

Start with Jupiter - I just did both variants of it yesterday! It is pretty simple. Then move up to Uranus. It is a nice progression. I'm hoping to try that today.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:39 am 
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Ahh thanks Kevin!

Hopefully what I will learn from Jupiter will help me with the others

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:42 am 
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Jupiter and especially Uranus will give you a basis for reducing the circles and then solving without losing the reduction but it gets MUCH MUCH harder after that. And that is only with experience of the standard crazy cubes. I think the 2face puzzles are much harder still. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:01 am 
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They are Kevin, they go up with quite a clunk. I'm relying on that clunk to keep you guys busy for a little while. To give me a little bit of recovery time from making and releasing the kits, before I get into some more solving again :wink: .

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:41 am 
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Ok here is a question, my kit was scrambled in Crazy2face Mercury and I changed the centres over to make the Jupiter, does this work? Or did I need to reassemble the kit?

What I mean is, is it still solvable if I scrambled it in mercury? I assume that it is in this case as I have added 1 centres but in a scenario where I add 0 centres I may make the cube unsolvable correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:02 am 
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I think you'll be right going that way.. if you went the other way (from Jupiter to Mercury), Mercury has orbits that can be broken with a Jupiter solve so it wouldn't work. The pieces can all go to any position with Jupiter, and RC parities will all be preserved (as opposed to if you just randomly assembled it scrambled, where they wouldn't be).

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:46 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
AndyChilly wrote:
Oh God, I'm already stuck!
Crazy2face Mercury, the first on the list :-(
I've failed myself.
I just dont know where to start.

Help!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't start at mercury! The order of the planets from the sun is NOT the order to solve.


Job done, solved Jupiter!!! Yay, I was worried for a second there that the 2faces would be too hard for me,good to know there is a nice easy one there for me haha

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:30 am 
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I have solved the following Standard Crazy2face Planets:

Crazy2face Jupiter(RBGO)
Crazy2face Jupiter(BWGO)
Crazy2face Uranus(BGO)
Crazy2face Uranus(WGO)
Crazy2face Saturn

The "Crazy2face Saturn" was not easy to solve for me. One Crazy2face piece is always in the wrong place. For the inner edge 3-cycle you have 6 save places for the 4 Crazy2face edges and the top face must be free from Crazy2face corners.

In the end rline made a supercube with the signature. I don't know whether I can solve all of them correctly in the future.

Thank you very much Burgo and rline for all the fantastic puzzles.

My next challenge is the Crazy2face Mercury.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Dreiser wrote:
In the end rline made a supercube with the signature.

I want to say that both of us were happy with the decision to have my signature over 2 pieces to create the supercube effect you're talking about. But also, both of us (especially me!) consider it an oversight that we didn't provide a plain yellow stickered center cap. At present, if there is a yellow face, it's likely that you'll always see "rl". This is not what I wanted. :?

I would suggest doing what I've done and find some yellow stickers from elsewhere and another center cap, and replace that cap with a new yellow stickered cap. I used 2 stickers and the sticker looks perfect. This now means that as I'm using the yellow face as a circle face I don't have to constantly be reminded of myself. Of course, it may just be that I'm overly self-conscious of my signature being everywhere.

The other option is to make sure every cube you solve has a yellow 3face (black cap) or B4pink "clock" bandage :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:27 pm 
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If you want, rline. I will send you an Andychilly signed centre cap, that way, you don't have to stare at your own John Handcock.

:P


Addition: I have now solved both standard Jupiter & Uranus 2face puzzles. But I remember how hard Crazy2face Mercury was and I am scared that I am working my way back towards him and then harder!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Hi rline & Burgo and all other,

saturday my crazy 2f/B4 arrived.
My first experience:
Very beautifull stickers and colors. Very beautiful designed box.
Very interesting puzzle.
Thank you rline and Burgo. Great work.

Today I build the c2f Jupiter. Yellow face = 2 . White face = 1 , all other faces 0. Is this correct ?
I need 45 minutes to assemble this cube. :)

After scrambling I was able to solve all, exclusive the cc ( Corner centers, triangles)
I cannot solve the triangles, and have no idea to make a reduction method.

Hmm , the Jupiter is the easiest. OMG this cubes are hard.
Perhaps I 'm not more a good solver, or is it to hard ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Crazy2face Crazy3face CrazyB4cube series
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Hi Andrea,

I think your Cube is the Crazy2face Venus.
The Crazy2face Jupiter (RBGO) has only one 0 face, the white face. The other 4 faces are 1.


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