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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:12 am 
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I think it's time to post my Bandaged Fortress method too (My Alcatraz method is the last post on page 2):

[ First I will put down some edge 3cycles that I found, then I will put the edge flipping cycle. During the solve it's practical to set up and get the edge flipping done as a priority, and then cycle the correctly orientated edges to finish.

-RED- This is my main and my finisher.
Edge 3cycle (UB>UF>DF)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R D2 L2) U2 (L2 D2 R' F2) R2 F2 R2
Mirror (UB>UF>DF)[Orange F, Yellow U]: (F2 L' D2 R2) U2 (R2 D2 L F2) L2 F2 L2

-BLUE- This moves edges between my main cycles (by exchanging through the green/orgnge position).
Edge 3cycle (DR>UR>FR)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R D2 L2) U [(B2 U2)x3] U (L2 D2 R F2)
Mirror (DL>UL>FL)[Orange F, Yellow U]: (F2 L' D2 R2) U' [(B2 U2)x3] U' (R2 D2 L' F2) The bold determines the direction of the 3cycle.

-GREEN- Edge Flipping is conducted through exchanging between UL & UB positions with a 2+2 swap, effectively flipping the two edges in those positions:
2+2 swap (UL & UB + FR<>UR)[Green F, Yellow U]: F2 R D2 L2 U B2 U2 B [(L2 B2)x3] B' U2 B2 U' L2 D2 R' F2

This trivial and handy 2+2 swap (I use to break a situation of `2 swaps in each` main -RED- 3cycle if I get that):
2+2 swap (UF<>DF + UR<>DR)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R2)x3
]
Attachment:
Bandaged Fortress.jpg
Bandaged Fortress.jpg [ 362.66 KiB | Viewed 6075 times ]
Together, these sequences will solve the puzzle.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:19 am 
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Hi Burgo,
thank you for posting your Alcatraz method.

In us solving methods turning corners is the most hard part.

My solving method:
first orientate corners, I posted the sequence.
Exchanging 2 2x1x1 bars changes the oriantation of two corners.
A 3cycle of bars doesn't change it.

swap 2 bars and 2 edges:

U' R U R' U F U' R2 F' R F R F' U' R' U R

3 cycle of bars:

U' R U R' U F U' R' F' U' R U F' U F U'

It differs in the middle of sequence.

Put all upper pieces to down ( Burgo's functionality picture)
R' F' U F U' F R' F

After this you can put the pieces up again with the mirrored inverted sequence, then 3 bars and corners are permuted.
( R F' R U' R U R')

(edit)
If 3 corners are turned in the same direction you can turn 3 corners with this sequence:
U F' U' F2 R' F' R2 U' R' U

This sequence flipps two edges. If you turn it twice, only 3 corners are turned. The basis of this sequence is : turn the middle bar out and reinsert it from different direction.



Then make the 3 cycle posted above. This causes a 3cycle of corners.

Burgo: your method is better I think.

Cheers,
Andrea

PS: I will post my bandaged fortress method, too.

(edit)
Quote:
Please don't be too critical^^.

No. :!: Your sequences are easier and shorter than mine, excluding the turning of two corners. Perhaps my corner turning is a nice sequence.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:05 am 
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Unsolve the bandaged fortress !
( scramble)

Hi Gentlemen and Ladies,

I found a nice way to scramble the bandaged fortress :
I post without spoiler , because it's not a solution :lol:


(edit)
I had forgotten to describe the start position. :oops:
Top face is white, front face is red !
( the fortress looks like a table)

Turn the following sequence one or more time.
Replace the 'x' with 1 or 3.
e.G
Rx (replacee with => 1 = R)
Rx (replace with 3 => R3 = R' )

Now, the sequence :

L2 B U2 F2 Dx R2 D2 Rx F2 R2 Fx D2 F2 Dx R2 U2 Lx B2


each x can be replaced with different numbers.
Easiest case: replace all 'x' with 1
L2 B U2 F2 D R2 D2 R F2 R2 F D2 F2 D R2 U2 L B2

It scrambles the cube very much.
It's not recommended, trying to solve the fortress with this sequence !

Much fun with a good scrambled fortress.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:08 am 
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Hi puzzle-friends,

My bandaged fortress method:
Attachment:
fortress1-3.jpg
fortress1-3.jpg [ 99.88 KiB | Viewed 6110 times ]

The left is the start position for sequences !
After x2 cubeturn you get the middle picture. This is the view position.
I do this becaus it's easier to follow the turns. In my opinion its easier to folow the sequences. Otherwise you must transform the sequences to an other view, then the most turns are on back/left/down face. I don't recommend this.

First sequence is a 3 cycle of edges:
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D'
F2 U2 B L2 ( undo modified setup)

]
Attachment:
fortress4-6.jpg
fortress4-6.jpg [ 110.12 KiB | Viewed 6110 times ]


The 'X' means the third permuted edge.
If you replace the B with B' and the B' with B you get the inverse sequence.
The left picture shows the startposition. The middle shows the result after x2 cubeturn. The right picture is the mirrored sequence.

With this sequences you can permute 5 positions of edges.

The following picture shows a sequence with this you can bring edges to oppostite positions. A 2+2 swap:
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D (R2 D2) x 3 D'
F2 U2 B' L' (undo setup)

]
Attachment:
fortress7-8.jpg
fortress7-8.jpg [ 73.03 KiB | Viewed 6110 times ]

The start position is not shown.
The left picture shows the permutation, the right picture shows the mirror.

To make the mirror :
Rerplace U with U' and vice versa.
Replace R with F' and vice versa.
Replace D with D' and vice versa. L with B' and B with L'.

With this 2 sequences you get 2 orbits with the left front edge together ( in view positon [ up=yellow, front=orange])

Now it's possible to reach all 7 positions. But's not possible to flip an edge.
To flip 2 edges you bring it to the 'X' mark in the following picture.
The you can make a 2+2 swap of this edges. After this you bring back the pieces to its origin positions and the pieces are flipped.

The (pseudo flip)sequence :
(2+2swap for flipping)
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D R2 D2 R (bring to different 2x2 swap position)
(F2 R2) x 3 the key sequence of this puzzle
R' D2 R2 D' ( undo second setup)
F2 U2 B' L2 (undo first setup)

]
Attachment:
fortress9-10.jpg
fortress9-10.jpg [ 64.08 KiB | Viewed 6110 times ]

In the left picture the 'x' means the key position for flipping.
Bring the wrong flipped edges to this positions.
The right picture shows the same from a different view.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:47 pm 
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:shock: :shock:
Unbelievable Andrea!! You and Burgo frighten me to death! I just don't know how you do it! One day I hope to be as good as you too!

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Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Hi Andrea (and Kevin),

Thanks for sharing, our methods are very similar due to the type of bandaging. I am using, as my main, a different 3cycle which changes slightly the way we approach the permutations, but we still use an identical method to flip 2 edges! (Among other shared sequences). I edited my post to include a picture to make it clearer too (I also edited it again to `take out` a sequence that I thought cluttered the method). I tried your scramble and made a solve- good scrambling :) . I had a feeling when you presented your scramble that you were going to be holding the puzzle in that position, for me, holding it the other way gives me a clear view on what needs to happen.. when I do a series of B twists, I tip the puzzle to make the U be F temporarily.

Scrambling the puzzle is much more efficient than solving it! It makes me think there could be a better way.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:03 am 
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Hi Burgo
thank you for sharing your bandaged fortress method.
I like your 3 cycle "red" to reach the opposite edge positions. Perhaps this is easier than my 2+2 swap.

Kevin:
Kevin wrote:
You and Burgo frighten me to death! I just don't know how you do it! One day I hope to be as good as you too!


You are good
Relevant is only, to love twisty puzzles :)

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:32 am 
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Hi guys, i've been playing around with a few new designs today (and nope, i still havent got the unbandaged big block figured out yet - but that's partly because i've been busy with some other puzzles too)



A new one 'C Block'

ImageImage

Not too difficult in the grand scheme of things, and this lead me onto 'C Block - clock':

ImageImage

which again is more challenging, but i'm sure still trivial for the likes of andrea and burgo :D

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Last edited by martywolfman on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:35 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:53 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
:oops: :oops: :oops:
I knew I would come unstuck soon! I have solved all the easy ones on Burgo's list and with trepidation started on the "bit harder" ones. To my huge relief I even managed Stalactites! Riding this tidal wave of success, I decided to try Unbandaged Big Block and crashed to a halt!

Tried the edges first method and then could not permute corners (much less orient them).

Run out of ideas just now! Not really experienced at this! My aim has always been to learn as few algorithms as possible! So I wanted to use what I already had but doesn't seem possible just now!

:D :D :D
Well guys

I've done it at last! It has taken me nearly 2 weeks but I've beaten my nemesis - the Unbandaged Big Block! In the end I found a sort of intuitive way to cycle the corners and then back to Sune for orientating them and then multiple opposite and adjacent edge swaps with setup moves to complete it. I've done it 3 or 4 times now so I know I can repeat it (not a fluke).

Once I've done it a few more times I'm going to dive into the flying carpets puzzle as Burgo suggested. If he is struggling then I won't stand a chance but it looks fun and rather different from everything else we've tried before!

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:46 am 
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Hi Kevin,

Although I'm not a guy, congratulations !
The unbandaged big block is a very interesting cube, not too easy ! Perhaps one of the best creations.


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Hi friends,
My second design.Perhaps it's a little bit hard. I found not a better name.
Name : pendulum
Attachment:
pendulum.jpg
pendulum.jpg [ 107.55 KiB | Viewed 5974 times ]

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:56 am 
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Hi Bandaged Puzzlers,

It's been a while since I released a desin, you must all be getting bored, so here's 3 :) :

Inspired by martywolfman's C Block I went back and had another go at the Unbandaged Big Block and made a V2 & V3. I kept having deja vu, until I realized that I `had` taken the journey before: with the Bandaged YZ. (Buried in that puzzle is the C Block, and that was the result of my exploration on my first journey). The C Block is the 3 face version of the Big Block (in the other direction the 3 faces are the Fuse Cube). So it's an iconic puzzle, a simple puzzle on it's own, but as a base for other puzzles, I'm sure it will be used often.

When split in the other direction, the Unbandaged Big Block needs a second cut to make it functional. I made this split in 2 ways: The Unbandaged Big Block V2 has all of the bandaging still attached to the centres, but interestingly the Unbandaged Big Block V3 gains a floating bandaged segment. These puzzles are on the easier (but still interesting) side, but there have been a few people seeking the easier ones.
Attachment:
Unbandaged Big Block V2 & V3.jpg
Unbandaged Big Block V2 & V3.jpg [ 443.6 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
And finally, something mid-range, triggered by this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&p=292362#p292362 which is closely related to the Bandaged 333 thread anyway.

I made the Fuse Clock and then figured that I should post it here:
It's really the last Planet (The Pluto of the Bandaged Clock Planet Series, if you will).

Attachment:
Fuse Clock.jpg
Fuse Clock.jpg [ 666.04 KiB | Viewed 5960 times ]
Now I have to try Andrea's Pendulum. Never let a difficult puzzle stop you from posting Andrea! I certainly don't :twisted: :lol:

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:31 am 
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Hi Andrea,

At first I was thinking [the Pendulum] wasn't scrambling very well, but after a while I was satisfied that I had scrambled it enough. The edges are fairly easy to place (and you can't flip them). I have corner permutation and orientation to do, but it's getting late. It's a pretty blocked up puzzle, possibly that will still work against it.. I wonder? Did you solve it yet?

EDIT: This type of 5cycle might go some way to solving it: [Orange F, White U] L'R (U2 R U2 R')x3 R'L ..and I just made a pure corner 3cycle :) .

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:09 am 
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Hi Burgo,

Thank you for your interesting to my design.
Perhaps the pendulum it harder than the first view on it.

Burgo wrote:
The edges are fairly easy to place (and you can't flip them).


Yes and no. The edges can be flipped ! It not easy , but there is a tricky way to do that.
The edge permutation is easy. I use yellow to top and orange to front for all sequences !
[spoiler]

M2 (setup for all sequences) ;)
(R U2 R' U2) x 5
M2


Look to this picture:
Attachment:
pendulum_p.jpg
pendulum_p.jpg [ 99.64 KiB | Viewed 5926 times ]


left picture: flip two edges
middle: turn two corners
right: corner 3-cycle

Two edges can flip and two corners can turn and a clean 3cycle of corners is possible !

So it's very difficult.
One hint :
[spoiler]

Don't think: turning the yellow face doesn't make sense!


Some sequences:

[spoiler]

corner 3-cycle=s1
M2 R U2 R' U2 L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L U2 M2
s2:
M2 R' U' F U R U' F' U M2

s3: M2 U' F U R' U' F' U R U2 R U2 R' M2

s4: M2 R' U' F' U L
D' L D L'
L' U' F U R U2 L' U2 L M2

edge 3-cylce ( like my bermuda sequence)
s5:
M2 (R U2 R' U2) x 5 M2

Turn two corners:
s4 + s1

flip two edges:

Flip two edges:

s3 flips edges !
Do s3 , make edge 3cycle, undo s3 and undo 3cycle
s3 s5 s3' s5'



Quote:
Did you solve it yet?

No :oops: Perhaps this design is much too hard.
I still explore sequences and concepts for this cube.

Would you categorize how hard it is ? I would say:
very hard ;)

Much fun to find a solution and solve it.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Hi Burgo,
I solved the pendulum.
The cube is solveable with the sequences in the spoiler of my last posting.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:20 am 
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Hi Andrea,

Seems like I spoke too soon, before I had twisted it enough! I wanted you to know I'd had a few twists :) . Interesting that the edges can be flipped. The first thing that I'm thinking when I see a new design is: Do all of the cuts have a purpose? What is the minimum cuts /bandaging to achieve the effect? The questions I first asked myself about your Pendulum were: `what is the purpose of unbandaging the red-white-blue 1x2x2 block`? And `what is the purpose of unbandaging the orange centre<>yellow clock hand`? On further exploration I intend to find the answers. As you know, I don't just seek to `solve` a bandaged puzzle, I try to see the intentions of the bandager :D .

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:37 am 
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Hi Burgo,

Hi Burgo,
Quote:
`what is the purpose of unbandaging the red-white-blue 1x2x2 block`?

(edit)
[spoiler]
The idea behind this cube is, that the first look suggest that the yellow face is not turnable and hasn't sense.

My first design was a second 2x1x1 white red blue block. Then the idea of the yellow block doesn't work. It was important to divide this in two 2x1x1 blocks.

Quote:
And `what is the purpose of unbandaging the orange centre<>yellow clock hand`?


Yes. This sense is together with the first question.
It looks that the yellow 'clock' hasn't a sence. But is it ?
After turning the yellow face it's not possible to make more moves ?

My Explanation gives the solution for this cube:
The yellow face allows an EPS. And this eps allows to turn the corners. In the spoiler the sequence s4 shows this.
It's not possible turn two corners without turning the yellow face, I think.
The configuration with one 3x1x1 bar and clocks don't allow to make setup moves for turning the corners. So you must permute coners to turn it. Because the 3cycle of corners turn it, it's very difficult to solve this cube.


With this explanations the fun of this puzzle is destroyed. I can put this in a spoiler. The fun of a puzzle is to find out this relations / functions.
Perhaps, you don't like this design. It is ok. Everybody has different preferences. Perhaps other designs are better.


]

Cheers,
Andrea


Last edited by Andrea on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:43 am 
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Hi Andrea,

My questions weren't criticisms (I was careful not to read your unhidden spoiler), they are just what I was thinking.. the questions of the puzzle :) .

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:15 am 
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Hi Burgo,

I will add a spoiler around my last posting, and add text. I'm curious in which category ( hard / easy/ etc ,first posting in this thread) you put this design.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:22 pm 
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OK, so it's been a while since I posted in this thread, but after a discussion yesterday evening in the TP chat, during which it turned out I was wrong (no big surprise there!) it was pointed out that the new Evgeniy cross-road cubes are just a standard bandaging situation, where I thought they had some kind of internal blocking.

So after thinking about it some more, and realising I was wrong, I thought I'd have a go at creating the four cubes from the DIY bandaging kit, and here are the (hopefully correct!) results:

Belt-road:

ImageImage

Corner-road:

ImageImage

Edge-road:

ImageImage

And finally the Cross-road:

ImageImage

The colour scheme is different than the real thing, especially on the cross road, because I don't have a full set of green single tiles, and while I was putting it together I thought I needed them all, so swapped the blue/green and red/orange paired face around. It should still be the same puzzle I think.

So how this works, take for example the Edge-road, all the 'blocking' pieces are on the yellow face, above the bandaged blocks, and if you turn any one of these blocks to another face, you will see that face can now no longer be turned.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Thanks Marty,

That is very helpful! I suspect I will not be good at these and this might save me some money as well as a lot of frustration!

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Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:35 pm 
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I've been having a play with all of these today, here's my opinions on the difficulty.

Edge-road - definitely the easiest of the set. Pretty straightforward, the only thing that took a little thinking about for me was orienting the last layer corners ( I did it last so as not to mess up solved edges)

Corner-road - At first I thought this was as straightforward, but it turned out I got a lucky easy last layer at the first attempt. Still not too difficult.

Belt road - I'm a bit stuck on this one, got the first 2 layers solved just fine, but I get in a situation where either I need to solve 3 edges, but can't use any of my regular algorithms, or I need to orient 3 corners, and can't. I suspect I need a combination of sunes to solve it all, I reckon it's possible, but I just don't have enough experience of exactly what happens to every piece, to be able to plan it properly. More work needed :)

Cross-road. Absolutely horrendous, I can't even figure out where to start. Beyond my capabilities to solve :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:34 pm 
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martywolfman wrote:
Edge-road - definitely the easiest of the set. Pretty straightforward, the only thing that took a little thinking about for me was orienting the last layer corners ( I did it last so as not to mess up solved edges)

You're a better man than I am! :shock:
I started with this one and solved it really quickly! I thought to myself:
"Self! You're a genius!"

Then, whilst flushed with my success, I scrambled it again and have not succeeded since! :oops:
I have tried every approach I know but cannot orient those last corners for the life of me. I said before that I'm rubbish at bandaged cubes and have just proved it to myself!

I'm getting mean looks with lightening bolts from the present Mrs S and I'm starting to singe between my eyes - I suspect she's fed up with the sound of turning, muttering and swearing under my breath! Gonna have to put it down and go to bed now! Not that I'll be able to sleep! :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
I started with this one and solved it really quickly! I thought to myself:
"Self! You're a genius!"



Haha, exactly my reaction on the corner-road version on my first attempt :D

I'm not the best at solving bandaged puzzles either Kevin, so I was very happy that I managed two of them all by myself :D

I'll give a hint in spoiler tags in case you want it for those corners. As I said, that was the bit that got me stuck on that one for a little while.

[spoiler]
You have to rotate the cube so that the side with the 'stop' signs is on your left, and the pieces to rotate are next to each other in URF and ULF positions. You can then use the normal R' D' R D sequence to rotate them.
[/spoiler]

Edit: Changed the spoiler - I was remembering how I did it, wrongly :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:42 am 
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Marty,

What are you doing up at 1:30 in the morning? Haven't you reached an age where you need to sleep?

Thanks for the hint but I actually managed to solve it myself. I struggled because I needed to do 3 clockwise rotations and this stopped me in my tracks. A little thought got me there!

Now on to the next one - Corner road! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:58 am 
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Corner road done! :D

Actually pretty easy - my brain is starting to hurt now! Do I dare try the next in the series? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Corner road done! :D

Actually pretty easy - my brain is starting to hurt now! Do I dare try the next in the series? :shock:

Yes, try the next one - the belt road. Once you get that done, consider very carefully whether you really need to attempt the cross road. In my opinion, it's fiendishly difficult and reminds me a lot of the CT Bicube, which I still can't solve...

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:10 pm 
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rline wrote:
Yes, try the next one - the belt road. Once you get that done, consider very carefully whether you really need to attempt the cross road. In my opinion, it's fiendishly difficult and reminds me a lot of the CT Bicube, which I still can't solve...

:shock: :shock: :shock:
OMG!
Can I stand the failure?
But how good would it be to finally solve one that Rline can't? :oops: :oops: Absolutely no chance of that happening at all!!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:24 pm 
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rline wrote:
Yes, try the next one - the belt road. Once you get that done, consider very carefully whether you really need to attempt the cross road. In my opinion, it's fiendishly difficult and reminds me a lot of the CT Bicube, which I still can't solve...


martywolfman wrote:

Cross-road. Absolutely horrendous, I can't even figure out where to start. Beyond my capabilities to solve :)


That's 2 votes for that! I'm glad I'm not alone

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
But how good would it be to finally solve one that Rline can't? :oops: :oops: Absolutely no chance of that happening at all!!

Well 1st of all, you and I both know you've already achieved that feat with a different puzzle, and 2nd of all, no offence to either of us, but honestly, solving something I can't solve is really nothing to write home about :lol:

Now if it's solving something that, say, Burgo, or Konrad, or Andrea or Schuma etc etc etc can't (apologies to all the other fantastic solvers out there who I missed), then you can brag! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Hi Bandaged Puzzlers,

The Belt Road, Edge Road and Corner Road, I would consider all of them to be quite easy. They are all achievable with simple applications of known sequences. It doesn't seem to make sense to me that the series is punctuated by such varying difficulties, because the Cross Road is much harder, I would consider it difficult, just harder than the Bicube. It is very similar to the Bicube (as Rline pointed out) and I will post a hidden spoiler:

[ Because the Cross Road is so similar to the Bicube it is advantageous that we have all the sequences we need to solve it (which in my case is only 2). It is more difficult than the Bicube because it has a parity, which *spoiler in spoiler alert* I will put last.

1. Solve the Block of single cubies.
2. Free up the Bicube corner (by using twists that include the already made Block).
3. Use Bicube sequences to solve the corner-edge blocks.
Note- You can do this with 3 different faces as F (because of the Block of single cubies), whereas the Bicube will only permit one.
Note- One of the `corner-edge Blocks` in the cycles will be drawn from the group of single cubies `acting as a corner-edge block`.
4. Solve the `2 corner-edge block swap`, Bicube parity if you get it.

Unbandaged Bicube Parity:
It is a pain when you get it and I'd like to produce a simple sequence, but I couldn't make anything that didn't destroy the rest of the puzzle and everything was very long. Instead I will explain what it is: Because 3 centres have been freed up, they can reorient. So a centre twist parity is possible. You have to twist one of those centres (green, red or yellow) by 90* and re-solve the puzzle.


EDIT:I thought an example of changing the parity might help:
[Blue F, White U]: R' F D2 R' B2 U D' R D' F L F' R F2 L2 F2 R U2 B' U' B U2 R' F'
]

I think the idea to Unbandage the Bicube was very interesting and created a nice challenge. I will addd one more Photo to enhance Marty's photos above, and that is just the Crossroad in the Evgeniy colour scheme:
Attachment:
Crossroads (Unbandaged Bicube).jpg
Crossroads (Unbandaged Bicube).jpg [ 745.85 KiB | Viewed 4908 times ]


martywolfman wrote:
I suspect I need a combination of sunes to solve [the Belt Road], I reckon it's possible, but I just don't have enough experience of exactly what happens to every piece, to be able to plan it properly.
I made a document a while ago that may be helpful:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... Ao60JDY47g

Cheers,
Burgo.

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Last edited by Burgo on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:43 pm 
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:D :D :D
Yeeehaw! Belt road solved! It's actually really really easy!
The hardest part for me was recreating that bottom bandaged section again. That was only tough because there's so much bandaging that there's not much movement possible.

After that the top face is pretty easy!

Marty! You are right it's all about SUNE & ANTISUNE. Once you understand what they do, you can use them easily to orient your corners without moving edges around. If you can't work it out then definitely read Burgo's document - it's a work of genius. I learned from it some weeks or months ago. 8-)

Now I have to go back to the Witeden 442 and a challenge from Rline before I even think of destroying my confidence on the Crossroad puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:52 am 
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Yeah indeed kevin, I eventually figured out what I needed to do , with a little sune research :) As you say once you get the double pieces in place, it's quite straightforward, especially now I know how to orient the corners. Nice that i learned a new technique too that I'm, sure will com in handy on other puzzles.

Quite a fun set of puzzles, but not too difficult overall for the first 3, like burgo said. The difference between them and the cross-road is pretty extreme. I am glad I've got this kit though, so don't have to buy them. Not that I have anything against buying puzzles, but being able to make these for free, allows me to spend my money on other puzzles instead :)

Ooh..a 4x4x2 challenge? What is it? I want to try! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:39 am 
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Hi Andrea,

I solved your Pendulum today! Wow, about time hey. Solving Evgeniy’s series rekindled my interest in the CT bandaged cube. The Pendulum is a wonderful puzzle and a very unique challenge, thankyou for designing it.

Now my method:
Attachment:
Pendulum Orientation Setup.jpg
Pendulum Orientation Setup.jpg [ 715.56 KiB | Viewed 4836 times ]

[ 1. Make the architecture of the puzzle by placing all of the bandaged pieces.

2. Orientate Edges.

Setup move: [White U, Green F]: F2 B2 U (PHOTO- sorry I can't hide a photo). Exchange edges out to orientate, for example on the solved setup-position: R U2 R’ (simple moves).

The edges and corners are orientated to the setup scheme: On the U layer, blue&green on the R&L faces. On The E&D slices, blue&green on the F&B faces. Note: Blue&green stickers are interchangeable at this stage.

3. Orientate Corners.

You need to permute corners in the Non-Setup-State into the orientation positions. Then do [F2 B2 U] and use the orientation sequences in the Setup-State. My sequence orientates 2 corners.

If you look in the Setup Photograph: The orientation positions are URF&DRB (which are the blue/orange/yellow & blue/orange/white `target positions` in the Non-Setup-State. Therefore with a U2 twist the green/red/yellow `target position` is an alternate for the blue/orange/yellow `target position`. Also there are the mirror positions URB&DRF, so there are plenty of alternatives.

Orientate URF&DRB: (R’ U2 R U2)x3
Orientate URB&DRF: (R U2 R’ U2)x3

4. Permute Edges.

This will be done in the Non-Setup- State (which I will use from now on): [Red F, Green U (or) Orange F, Blue U] Permute with simple R2 twists and U&D setups.

5. Permute corners.

[Red F, Green U (or) Orange F, Blue U] Permute with U&D setups and: (R2 U R2 U’ R2) D (R2 U R2 U’ R2) D’ and mirrors.
]

Overall I think it was very tricky, and my initial thoughts on the puzzle were incorrect. As far as difficulty goes I think finding the corner orientation sequences were quite difficult. For sure, it will go in the `difficult` category!

I had a lot of fun, thank you again Andrea, and apologies for taking so long to respond.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:07 am 
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Well, having breezed through the first 3 of the Evgeny "Road" cubes. I have been working on the cross road for a couple of days.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
OMG - if this is easier than the bicube due to it being unbandaged in this puzzle then I stand no chance at the bicube! I sort of manage to get 2/3 of it in place by just fiddling with it and then start to try to complete a face or place the corners or place the edges or place just about anything! It is do bandaged that nothing works! Not even one of my algorithms or techniques work! Absolutely nothing! This is unbelievably tough!

I would suggest to anyone with confidence issues as to their skills then you should avoid this puzzle! Only geniuses should try it! :lol:

Marty, the extra challenge with the 442 was to solve it like a normal cuboid. My first solution had used the camouflage/bandaged AI techniques and Rline suggested solving it like a normal cuboid. This I have done and it is quite enjoyable!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:29 am 
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Hi Kevin,

It's harder than the Bicube. It helps if you have solved the Bicube first though. My advice would be to solve the Bicube first and then come back to the Cross Road, even if you look at some Bicube methods earlier in the thread.

I've placed the Evgeniy Cubes in my difficulty scale at the beginning of the thread for you, it's probably still good for your confidence to tackle the bandaged puzzles in a difficulty order.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:

Marty, the extra challenge with the 442 was to solve it like a normal cuboid. My first solution had used the camouflage/bandaged AI techniques and Rline suggested solving it like a normal cuboid. This I have done and it is quite enjoyable!


Ahh ok, yeah I had done that a couple of times, but ran into a weird parity that i couldn't get out of without making camouflage cube type moves.

Burgo wrote:

I've placed the Evgeniy Cubes in my difficulty scale at the beginning of the thread for you, it's probably still good for your confidence to tackle the bandaged puzzles in a difficulty order.



I for one still fully intend to work through them all at some point, even if it means using your help to solve them. I have just been a bit distracted by other puzzles of late :D If nothing else new sequences algorithms have tgot to be good things to know!

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:30 am 
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Hello Guys
I am glad that you have decided some of my puzzle;)

I want to challenge you! you can deal with these monsters?

1. BiNCube 5*5 - No one has solved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbXd4CpMZto

2. Great Wall 6*6 - Only one guy solved it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqjzZEySKPk

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:05 am 
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Hi Evgeniy,

Thankyou for the challenges (past and present)! I have solved the Wall4 & Wall5, but although I've known of the Wall6 I haven't attempted it yet. The BiNCube555 seems like a 555 version of the Bicube, I wonder how close it actually is. I so much wish CT would put out 444 & 555 pacs!

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:03 am 
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I taped up my 666 and the first thing I did was to make the equivalent of the Burr6 transformation. This wasn't too difficult considering we have solved the Wall4. I think the photo demonstrates that the strategy for solving it will be to make this pattern. From here there shouldn't be too much trouble I think.. Now that I know the target it's time for a full scramble. Is anyone else playing?


Attachments:
File comment: Burr6
SL373513.JPG
SL373513.JPG [ 1.76 MiB | Viewed 4281 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Great Wall Cube 6x6 - burr challenge (play back)
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9w_NS0J_s
Good Luck :)

4 step, 220 moves, all state possible :)

start
Image

1 check point
Image

2 check point
Image

finish
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:51 pm 
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BiNCube 5*5 - this is very interest 3*3 cube, with shifted center of gravity!!!

also possible 7*7 mod

BiNCube 7*7 - this is 3*3 special cube
Image

BiNCube 7*7 advanced - this is 4*4 special cube
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:49 am 
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I want to suggest my version Chimera Cube - Chimera Shift v6 (one block of 4 * 4 * 4 and three blocks 2 * 2 * 4).
I think it is more difficult standard Chimera Cube
Image
Image

Chimera Shift v5
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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:34 pm 
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This is my single edge-bandaged 3x3 and I have a couple of questions. First, is there a name for it? It seems there a list of names for 3x3 bandaged variants, but I couldn't find it.
Attachment:
EdgeBandaged-3x3x3_sm.png
EdgeBandaged-3x3x3_sm.png [ 236.92 KiB | Viewed 3036 times ]

I've been solving this using a corners-first approach, but I feel that I am missing an algorithm, one that can change the orientation of corners on the top layer without messing up the corners on D. Basically I can orient corners using R and U turns until I get to the last two. I HAVE solved it a few times, but I think I just lucky with the corner orientation.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Maybe the surrogate F..

Uhm.. keep the bandaged bit on the bottom left, then do Rw (both R and middle layer next to R ) U Rw' and then the rest of the algorithm containing F. F' is the opposite of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Pete, I have no idea how to do a corners first solve, so I can only base this on how I solve this, which is basically with beginners method.

The bandaged bar will run from front bottom left to the rear.

On the last layer, you can then use sunes to orient your corners as you would with normal beginners method (right and up faces are free to turn), you will actually find that this means they are all permuted too, once oriented correctly, just leaving the edges to be permuted.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:42 pm 
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martywolfman wrote:
Pete, I have no idea how to do a corners first solve, so I can only base this on how I solve this, which is basically with beginners method.

The bandaged bar will run from front bottom left to the rear.

On the last layer, you can then use sunes to orient your corners as you would with normal beginners method (right and up faces are free to turn), you will actually find that this means they are all permuted too, once oriented correctly, just leaving the edges to be permuted.
Thanks Marty. I'm starting to think that a corners first solve isn't the right approach for this variant. After solving the first two layers using Fused Cube methods:
[spoiler] (D-layer corners, E-layer edges, D-layer edges) [/spoiler],
I got the last layer corners solved just now using SUNEs... let's just say that that a review of the Beginner's Guide was enlightening :oops: 8-) .

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:57 am 
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Hi Pete,

Glad to see a bit more interest in the bandaged 333! We’ve been calling this the bandaged `1x1x3 block`. I put the block on the D layer as well, and use a pretty standard F2L approach, interestingly with a Sune to orientate LL edges (M’ Sune M).

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:28 pm 
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I could use a bit of help on this particular configuration:

Image

Image


I had solved it probably 4 or 5 times and I thought I had the hang of it. But all of those times when I finished solving the F2L all of the last layer edges were oriented correctly, and I could finish orienting the whole top layer with Sune/Antisune, and could finish it with an odd new U-Perm that I looked up (R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R).

Now, I have only 2 of the last layer edges oriented correctly, and try as I might I could not find a way to flip the other two. I've tried solving on Red, Blue, and Yellow faces first and could not get it solved, either. If someone happens to know an alg that could flip the two mis-oriented edges that still works on this configuration, I would love to know it. Or if you have a completely different strategy for solving it I'm game for that too.

I have looked through the thread and all I could find was one post with a very similar configuration with nothing about it.

Thanks for the help, this one has had me scratching my head for a while :? !


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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:46 pm 
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OwMyHip wrote:
Now, I have only 2 of the last layer edges oriented correctly, and try as I might I could not find a way to flip the other two. I've tried solving on Red, Blue, and Yellow faces first and could not get it solved, either. If someone happens to know an alg that could flip the two mis-oriented edges that still works on this configuration, I would love to know it.


It is impossible to flip edges if you only use two generators, so in this situation you will need to use moves of the middle layer.

Let the white face be R, and the orange face U.
First replace the bandaged edge with one of the flipped edges: U' R' U'R
Flip that edge by moving the middle layer to the left: Um (also sometimes denoted E')
Replace the edge by the other flipped edge: R U' R'
Flip this second edge by moving the middle layer back: Um'
Reinsert the bandaged edge: R' U2 R

This will have messed up the DFR corner. I hope I got this right as I don't have a cube in front of me right now.

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Jaap

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