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 Post subject: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Recently, I started learning about cross-eyed stereograms, and learned that it's really easy to take 3D pictures. All you need is a camera and very steady hands (or a tripod or somesuch): take a shot of your subject slightly to the left, then slightly to the right, then use a graphics program to paste the two together in reverse order. Bingo, a cross-eyed stereogram! So I decided to take a 3D photo of my puzzle collection.

Can you identify all of them? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:26 am 
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I find cross-eyed stereograms very uncomfortable. I much prefer to diverge my eyes (focus beyond infinity). Here is that version:
Attachment:
02181X_diverge.jpg
02181X_diverge.jpg [ 86.69 KiB | Viewed 3731 times ]
This is much clearer and puts much less strain on my eyes.

I think diverging takes a bit more practice but it's a good skill to have.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:51 am 
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I had a quick go with an anaglyph, if you've got some glasses, but it's quality is dependant on the original photos, focus on the Teraminx at the back and it's a bit better.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:42 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I find cross-eyed stereograms very uncomfortable. I much prefer to diverge my eyes (focus beyond infinity).

Hmm. I find it really hard to do parallel (wall-eyed) viewing, whereas cross-eyed viewing for me comes quite easily. Cross-eyed also doesn't have a width limitation (although if the images are too wide it becomes really uncomfortable).


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:32 pm 
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I absolutely do not understand how these work. When I cross my eyes, everything just splits into two and goes blurry.
If I understand correctly what it means to "diverge" my eyes, then I can do that and I guess it would make sense in that I can get the two images to overlap, but it's impossible for it to seem 3d since it's still very blurry.
EDIT: If the angle between shots was very slight, it would work as a gif. I've seen them done before and they're quite effective. I made it into one as a test and the effect isn't very good.
Click

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:21 am 
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BN wrote:
I absolutely do not understand how these work. When I cross my eyes, everything just splits into two and goes blurry. [...]

They're supposed to go blurry and split into two each. The trick is to adjust the amount you cross your eyes until the middle two of the split images merge into one. At this point, there will be three blurry images, the middle one is the overlap of two of the split images. Now adjust your focus (without splitting up the middle image -- this takes a bit of practice) until the middle image becomes clear. When it does, you will see it in 3D. The other two blurry images will still be on either side of the 3D image; you just ignore those.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:13 am 
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BN wrote:
I absolutely do not understand how these work. When I cross my eyes, everything just splits into two and goes blurry.
If I understand correctly what it means to "diverge" my eyes, then I can do that and I guess it would make sense in that I can get the two images to overlap, but it's impossible for it to seem 3d since it's still very blurry.
EDIT: If the angle between shots was very slight, it would work as a gif. I've seen them done before and they're quite effective. I made it into one as a test and the effect isn't very good.
Click
You are correct. According to several sources, the rule of thumb is that the offset should be at a maximum of 1/30 of the camera-to-subject distance. Here's a link with more information (using the anaglyph method):
http://patenteux.com/stereo/index.html

By the way, Patenteux dot com has a great example of an image that uses the cross-eyed method. It works amazingly well because it was shot using the proper offset:
http://patenteux.com/stereo/pics/crosseyed.jpg

Skarabajo.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:32 am 
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I can't really see out of one eye so I have always lived in a 2D world, like looking at a computer screen, while everything 3D (or 4D, etc.) is in my head.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:41 am 
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quickfur's picture did not work for me at all. Looking at Brandon photos I had a true 3-D effect, but there was a second picture remaining at my left.
Skarabajo's example worked well with the cross-eye method, but I did not get a complete overlap: I saw three pictures all the time, in the middle a 3D version.
Probably it is a problem of my eyes, my left eye is very different from the right.

I could not try Burgo's because I have not got 3D glasses.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:33 am 
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Konrad wrote:
quickfur's picture did not work for me at all. Looking at Brandon photos I had a true 3-D effect, but there was a second picture remaining at my left.
Skarabajo's example worked well with the cross-eye method, but I did not get a complete overlap: I saw three pictures all the time, in the middle a 3D version.

This is normal for cross-eyed viewing. You just have to focus on the middle image and ignore the other two.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:35 am 
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quickfur wrote:
This is normal for cross-eyed viewing. You just have to focus on the middle image and ignore the other two.
I have the same problem when I drink too much beer.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:37 am 
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Skarabajo wrote:
[...] According to several sources, the rule of thumb is that the offset should be at a maximum of 1/30 of the camera-to-subject distance. [...]

Hmm, I did not know that. I do have another stereogram pair of the same scene with the shots slightly closer together; there the 3D effect is less pronounced, but I guess more comfortable for viewing. For the one I posted above, I was experimenting with a larger offset to exaggerate the 3D effect. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea. :lol:

Anyway, here's the other version of it:


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:39 am 
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quickfur wrote:
I was experimenting with a larger offset to exaggerate the 3D effect.
I guess it should still work fine - if your eyes are 4 meters apart. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:47 am 
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KelvinS wrote:
quickfur wrote:
I was experimenting with a larger offset to exaggerate the 3D effect.
I guess it should still work fine - if your eyes are 4 meters apart. :lol:

Your brain handles this just fine and just gives you a much better sense of depth.

Melinda Green, another twisty puzzle enthusiast builds exaggerated stereo vision devices:
http://www.superliminal.com/stereo/index.htm

She has one that's even wider than the one shown on that page. I've looked through it and the effect is really cool. It makes most things feel very close but when you reach out with your arm, your arm looks very long.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:15 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
quickfur wrote:
I was experimenting with a larger offset to exaggerate the 3D effect.
I guess it should still work fine - if your eyes are 4 meters apart. :lol:

Your brain handles this just fine and just gives you a much better sense of depth.
[...]

Yeah, your brain simply interprets the scene as much closer than it really is, and perhaps smaller than it is. People have experimented with taking 3D pictures of large objects like mountains -- but the problem is that using the normal offset (just an inch or two, the distance between your eyes) produces just a flat image, because the parallax is pretty much unnoticeable at that distance. One trick to improve the photo is to exaggerate the separation -- it does work, but it sometimes also has the comical effect of making the mountain appear like a small toy model instead. Another trick, that perhaps works a little better, is to have a nearby foreground object which will show a large degree of parallax; then the mountain will appear as a large distant object as it should, and the 3D effect is still present relative to the nearby object.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:45 pm 
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The brain also uses the depth of field to give you a sense of scale. If a very narrow range of the object is in focus your brain interprets that to mean it's small and you're looking close-up. That's why Tilt-Shift Photography make things look miniature:
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:56 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
The brain also uses the depth of field to give you a sense of scale. If a very narrow range of the object is in focus your brain interprets that to mean it's small and you're looking close-up. [...]

Interesting. Is this where the illusion of the moon having different sizes at different times comes from?


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:00 pm 
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quickfur wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
The brain also uses the depth of field to give you a sense of scale. If a very narrow range of the object is in focus your brain interprets that to mean it's small and you're looking close-up. [...]

Interesting. Is this where the illusion of the moon having different sizes at different times comes from?

No, that's a different effect - the brain compares size of nearby objects, so the moon looks much bigger when it's close to the horizon and makes distant trees (which the brain knows are big) look very small.

Amazingly, the brain uses *at least* 4 different properties to judge distance:

Stereovision (different angles/perspectives from different eyes)
Depth of field (focus varies with distance)
Size comparison (of nearby objects)
Perspective (convergence of parallel lines)

So for example, I can still judge distance quite well, even though I can barely see with one eye.

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Last edited by KelvinS on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:03 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
[...] Your brain handles this just fine and just gives you a much better sense of depth. [...]
This reminds me of an excellent xkcd comic called "Depth Perception": http://xkcd.com/941/

Skarabajo.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Skarabajo wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
[...] Your brain handles this just fine and just gives you a much better sense of depth. [...]
This reminds me of an excellent xkcd comic called "Depth Perception": http://xkcd.com/941/

Skarabajo.

Hmm. Wouldn't the clouds just appear like tiny toy models, though?


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Everything is relative. Either the clouds appear small or he feels like a giant. :D

Skarabajo

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:33 pm 
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I "miniturized" your collection with some selective blurring. When viewed cross-eyed, the resulting 3d image should look like you're peering on small puzzles.
Attachment:
02181X_cross_mini.png
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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:50 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I "miniturized" your collection with some selective blurring. When viewed cross-eyed, the resulting 3d image should look like you're peering on small puzzles.

That is a pretty cool effect!


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:45 pm 
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I've been trying to do these for a long time but have had a lot of trouble. I can go cross eyed, but I can only stay cross eyed when focused on my nose. Anytime I try to focus on something else my eyes move back to their normal positions.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Benf207 wrote:
I've been trying to do these for a long time but have had a lot of trouble. I can go cross eyed, but I can only stay cross eyed when focused on my nose. Anytime I try to focus on something else my eyes move back to their normal positions.

I know what you mean. When I first started learning cross-eyed viewing, I couldn't keep focus for very long because my eyes keep wanting to uncross when focusing on what's on the screen. I read somewhere that there's an instinctive coupling between focus and the amount of eye-crossing; you kinda have to decouple the two for the stereogram to work.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Benf207 wrote:
I've been trying to do these for a long time but have had a lot of trouble. I can go cross eyed, but I can only stay cross eyed when focused on my nose. Anytime I try to focus on something else my eyes move back to their normal positions.

Eye control takes a ton of practice.

One thing you've probably notice is that as you cross your eyes the image splits into two. If you tilt your head side-to-side while crossing your eyes and looking at the screen you'll see the images move up and down relative to each other. If you tilt your head to the left while crossing your eyes the right-image moves above the left (and vice-versa). You will need to slowly tilt your head right or left until the objects in the image match up and are level with each other otherwise you won't be able to focus and form a new overlapping image.

You can practice controlling crossing or diverging your eyes using simple text.

Do something like:

..................OvO....................................OvO........................

Where "OvO" is separated by different distances. Then you can practice diverging or crossing so that each "OvO" splits into two. That looks like:


..................OvO......OvO......................OvO......OvO........................

And as you diverge more eventually the two virtual images will overlap and you'll see:


..................OvO.................OvO...................OvO......................

Where the middle one will be perfectly in focus and have some depth to it.

It takes a lot of practice but once you get good at it, you can do it at will. Now when I look at repeating patterns like chain-link-fences or wallpaper or floor tiles or just about anything I can't help but try diverging my eyes to get depth.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:40 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
It takes a lot of practice but once you get good at it, you can do it at will. Now when I look at repeating patterns like chain-link-fences or wallpaper or floor tiles or just about anything I can't help but try diverging my eyes to get depth.

You must look like Marty Feldman. :lol:

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Last edited by KelvinS on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:57 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
It takes a lot of practice but once you get good at it, you can do it at will. Now when I look at repeating patterns like chain-link-fences or wallpaper or floor tiles or just about anything I can't help but try diverging my eyes to get depth.

You must look like Marty Feldman. :lol:

Wow... I never knew he was so cross eyed. I don't remember him being like that in Young Frankenstein...
Attachment:
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And Kelvin, please no more Mobile links :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: 3D stereograms of my collection!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:08 pm 
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I much prefer a normal picture.. my eyes simply don't know what to do with this, all I get is blurred up too, plus it hurts, so.. no more cross eyed for me lol


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