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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:14 am

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:13 pm
Location: London
EMI94100 wrote:
Haha
An other example: An OH cube that turns like a usual 3x3x3, too. (Is this completely impossible?)

I was REALLY surprised to find this viewtopic.php?f=15&p=261300

Kudos to you Eric, that is genuinely impressive- not even Oskar managed to do that right his first time

How about a pyraminx, that turns as a pyraminx AND an unpillowed mastermorphix? With the tiny gaps in the middle of each face perfect for holding a corner piece, like his floppy series.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:58 am

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: USA, North America, Planet Earth, Solar system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe
two new concepts which share certain similarities with the 'curvy deep cut 3x3x3'...
the first is the constrained 5x5x5, where only groups of two middle layers can turn. I'm pretty sure it's nearly impossible to build (at least, within my knowledge- the bandaging would be amazingly complex.) it should be noted that the X centers are linked in pairs, to the one on the opposite face acting as 3x3x3 edges and the T centers are also linked in pairs to the one on the opposite face, acting as a new piece that I can not identify. linked piece groups are the same color.

the second is a new circle cube where when a face is turned, the circle on the opposite face turns with it. (it can also be viewed as a circle cube who requires a turn of two layers to move a circle...)
it is very similar to the constrained 5x5x5, and also shares the odd piece made of T centers.

anyone with more math skills want to analyze these puzzles?

 Attachments: File comment: constrained 5x5x5 constrained-5x5x5-concept.png [ 161.58 KiB | Viewed 6382 times ] File comment: 'double' circle cube CircleConcept.png [ 101.72 KiB | Viewed 6382 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:55 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Monopoly wrote:
the first is the constrained 5x5x5, where only groups of two middle layers can turn.
This idea while not exactly the same I think is releated to the Uniaxial and Biaxial 3x3x3's I talk about here.

Monopoly wrote:
the second is a new circle cube where when a face is turned, the circle on the opposite face turns with it.
This has been talked about before and could be built using the basic mech of my Thorny Cube.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:39 pm

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: Michigan
A puzzle with split gears would be cool. A 4x4 could be like a normal gear cube, but the gears can swap parts. Maybe they could be split into more than 2 pieces and make some weird shapes! You could also use it on the 6x6 or 7x7.

A 3x3 with gears on the corners would be cool, but hard to hold. I'm not sure but I think that the difficulty would be close to a normal 3x3. Would depend on the gearing ratio, too .

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:51 pm

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:23 pm
thomasbomb wrote:
A puzzle with split gears would be cool.

This seems like a fantastic idea. If the gearing was done in a fashion where the gears always ended up in rotations of 180 degrees, the gear would only need to be split once. My guess is that the puzzle would require magnets though, because the torque used for turning would probably be used to turn the deep cut layer rather than the outside geared layers.

A 4x4 version seems like a perfect candidate.

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Last edited by gingervergo on Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:54 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:58 pm
Location: Louisiana, US
Oskar wrote:
The strangest thing happened to me today. I accidentally dropped my Illegal Cube in water. However, it did not get wet! Instead, I noticed the water getting fudged.

Oskar
Added to signature, LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:18 am
I am imagining a prolate spheroid with a single cutting plane along its long axis. One one side of the cutting plane are two rows containing 13 tiles.The top row is numbered 1-13 and the bottom row is numbered 14-26. On the opposite side are tile numbered 27-52. Rotating the puzzle 180 degrees one way will apply an In Shuffle to the numbered tiles. Rotating 180 degrees in the opposite direction will apply an Out Shuffle to the numbered tiles. The goal would be to mix and then reorder the tiles though these two moves.

Or any purely mechanical puzzle that is mathematically equvalent to shuffling and unshuffling a standard deck of playing cards usingjust In and Out shuffles.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 am
What about a vertex turning 3x3 (not the Redi cube).

Imagine a cube where all the pieces affected by L F' L' F rotate together.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:59 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:57 pm
Location: The land of dreams, coincedentally located in Alberta
NType3 wrote:
What about a vertex turning 3x3 (not the Redi cube).

Imagine a cube where all the pieces affected by L F' L' F rotate together.

Interesting, that would remind me of a 3-legged spider (the bug, not the puzzle part) around the cube.

Although Oskar has already made the Oh Cube, which is a vertex-turning 3x3x3 lookalike. But it can't do 3x3x3 turns (I think), so...

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:06 pm

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 am
Not at all what I meant. If you look at the snake on a 3x3, it can be expressed as two turns around opposite corners. Create a puzzle that turns like that?

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:22 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:57 pm
Location: The land of dreams, coincedentally located in Alberta
NType3 wrote:
Not at all what I meant. If you look at the snake on a 3x3, it can be expressed as two turns around opposite corners. Create a puzzle that turns like that?

I knew you weren't talking about the Oh Cube, I just included a link anyway since it was somewhat related.

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3x3x3 PB: 38.9 seconds
Well, I accumulated puzzles without even trying this Christmas. Whoops.
(Bermuda 8 planets, Rex Cube, Master Skewb, London Natural History Museum keychain 2x2x2, Impossiball)

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:06 pm

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:11 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
How about a Geared Tuttminx.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:01 am

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:35 am
There was an idea brought up by me in grigr's Star Cube topic about an 8 pointed star in a circle on each face of a traditional 3x3. wwwmwww then suggest that, while turning a face 90 degrees, the circle on that face could rotate by 45. Here is the quote from that topic.
oBNoo wrote:
wwwmwww wrote:
oBNoo wrote:
I thought it might be neat and more convenient if an 8 prong star version were made. I made a quick sketch and I think it might look something like this.
Oh I like this idea. Unlike the 5 pointed star version you could tie the circle moves to the core in some interesting ways. Imagine a puzzle which looked like this where each 90 degree face turn resulted in the circle on that face turning by 45 degrees.

Carl

So something like this?

I'm almost positive this would need gears and gears seem to be Oskar's specialty.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:20 am

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:13 pm
Location: London
Well, its a shapemod of a mixup gear 5x5. That shouldnt be too difficult

When you turn the U face by 90*, the u face turns by 45*. You then need to find a way to reveal that layer in a circle on the U face. Of course, mixup cuts need to be enabled, to allow further moves after only 90* turn of the U face.

Then again, there's probably a beautifully simple mechanism, that will stun and amaze us all.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:03 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:35 am
shzl wrote:
Well, its a shapemod of a mixup gear 5x5. That shouldnt be too difficult

When you turn the U face by 90*, the u face turns by 45*. You then need to find a way to reveal that layer in a circle on the U face. Of course, mixup cuts need to be enabled, to allow further moves after only 90* turn of the U face.

Then again, there's probably a beautifully simple mechanism, that will stun and amaze us all.

I don't think there is a mixup aspect to that idea. The circles can move by 45 degrees and still allow other rotations because of the 8 pointed star created by the lines in the circle. The centers can not be swapped with edges.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:03 pm

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:13 pm
Location: London
Actually, if you consider this piece on the cube- it represents the top center face piece of the side on the left, yes? But then after a 90* turn of the main face (U) that piece is in the top left corner. So fir other moves to be possible, mixup moves would have to be possible- if only for the (u, d, l, r f, b faces)
If you turn one face of the mixup 5x5 by only 90*, the inner face will only turn by 45*. Then no more moves are possible.

Think about it, you *could* make a 2x2 equivalent of this, by using the geared mixup, couldn't you? The big corners become the actual corners, and the middle layer is somehow revealed to be the circle in the middle of each face.

Whatever, its just my take on it

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Last edited by shzl on Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:16 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm
I don't think there's ANY puzzle that's impossible for Oskar to build!!

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:04 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:35 am
shzl wrote:
Actually, if you consider this piece on the cube- it represents the top center face piece of the side on the left, yes? But then after a 90* turn of the main face (U) that piece is in the top left corner. So fir other moves to be possible, mixup moves would have to be possible- if only for the (u, d, l, r f, b faces)
If you turn one face of the mixup 5x5 by only 90*, the inner face will only turn by 45*. Then no more moves are possible.

Think about it, you *could* make a 2x2 equivalent of this, by using the geared mixup, couldn't you? The big corners become the actual corners, and the middle layer is somehow revealed to be the circle in the middle of each face.

Whatever, its just my take on it

I don't think that piece represents a 5x5 piece. The part you highlighted, when the circle is rotated by 45 degrees, would become part of the 3x3's corner piece. The cuts in the circle will then still allow more 3x3 moves to be made.
I can't see how this idea is at all related to a 5x5.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:06 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
For some reason I find it difficult to see/recognize the 8-pointed star in the first image:

Is it just me, or do others have the same issue?

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:11 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
oBNoo wrote:

This should be imminently buildable. You have regular crazy cube pieces underneath, then under the almost-triangles on the outside of the circle which mesh with the top layer pieces on the outside, and the hidden regular crazy pieces inside (not the core!) The gears might be a little small, but it's the same kind of trick as is used in the gear cube.

(had to update this once because the first thing I said didn't make sense. oops.)

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: A CoruĂ±a - Spain
Kelvin Stott wrote:
For some reason I find it difficult to see/recognize the 8-pointed star in the first image:

Is it just me, or do others have the same issue?

 Attachments: 2enrvro.png [ 23.1 KiB | Viewed 5723 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm
I think it's the straight lines of the regular 3x3 layers that make it hard to see. I found it hard to see as well, until I saw that last message.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:34 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:57 pm
Location: The land of dreams, coincedentally located in Alberta
Triple-layered Helicopter Cube? (Royal Helicopter Cube?)

Basically, one step up from the Master Helicopter Cube.

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Well, I accumulated puzzles without even trying this Christmas. Whoops.
(Bermuda 8 planets, Rex Cube, Master Skewb, London Natural History Museum keychain 2x2x2, Impossiball)

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:24 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:53 pm
I posted two ideas I had, here, that might be impossible. But I'd definitely like to see someone try (because they would be awesome).

The first idea is a puzzle that can be solved multiple ways, with a different look and end results. (eg: a cube puzzle being solved in the shape of a pyramid, or a simpler idea/version: a square puzzle becoming a triangle.)

The second idea is two separate puzzles (possibly two cubes) that work and function normally. But that can also be combined to create a new puzzle. (possibly a siamese version, or just a whole new puzzle in general).
To elaborate from what I said in the actual post, perhaps it would be possible to use the void aspect of a void puzzle, and insert something into the void space (the separate puzzle) that would change the puzzle completely.

I'm always coming up with ideas for stuff like this, so if I have more ideas, I'll post them here.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
AgentKuo wrote:
or a simpler idea/version: a square puzzle becoming a triangle.
Not a twisty puzzle, more of an interesting problem in geometry but this seems to fit that bill.

http://math.nmsu.edu/breakingaway/Lessons/T2S/Triangle2Square.htm

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:53 pm
wwwmwww wrote:
AgentKuo wrote:
or a simpler idea/version: a square puzzle becoming a triangle.
Not a twisty puzzle, more of an interesting problem in geometry but this seems to fit that bill.

http://math.nmsu.edu/breakingaway/Lessons/T2S/Triangle2Square.htm

Carl

Absolutely! Now if only someone could make a twisty puzzle that accomplishes the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:20 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:56 pm
Location: Chicago,
A edge or corner turning pyraminx crystal

EDIT: Or better yet, one that can turn Faces, Edges, and Corners

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:23 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:18 am
A Starminx Ultimate: Dino Dodeca plus Starminx I, II, and III.

Extra challenge: Make it comparable in size to existing mass-produced Dodecahedrons.

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Last edited by Jeffery Mewtamer on Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:34 am

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:39 pm
Location: frederick MD. USA
a -3x-3x-3 DO NOT PRINT but make it in the computer
if you print it we will all die and thats no fun

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:19 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:52 am
cube1313 wrote:
a -3x-3x-3 DO NOT PRINT but make it in the computer
if you print it we will all die and thats no fun

I first didn't get it but if you are talking about a cube with negative order I'd say "Physical build please!"

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:39 pm
Location: frederick MD. USA
cube1313 wrote:
a -3x-3x-3 DO NOT PRINT but make it in the computer
if you print it we will all die and thats no fun

I first didn't get it but if you are talking about a cube with negative order I'd say "Physical build please!"

NO I DO NOT WANT TO DIE FROM A BLACK HOLE

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:27 am

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:14 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Any chance of a geared 2x2x2?

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:40 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:56 am
This seems like a bumpable thread, I hope I'm right!

I suggest a treasure cube that requires a complete solve and not just the first two layers.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:15 am

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 pm
pooya13 wrote:
This seems like a bumpable thread, I hope I'm right!

I hope so too Just seen Slide Along. Challenge - make fully functional (i.e. also middle pieces can slide) 3x3x3 version

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:36 am

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Wojowu wrote:
pooya13 wrote:
This seems like a bumpable thread, I hope I'm right!

I hope so too Just seen Slide Along. Challenge - make fully functional (i.e. also middle pieces can slide) 3x3x3 version

That was my original suggestion above, but I was so blown away by Slide Along and then Combo Cube, that I was happy to overlook this minor detail. Still, a fully functional, cage-free 3x3x3 sliding block puzzle would be very cool, if not truly impossible!

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:04 am

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Based on this discussion, a cube or square wheel that rolls freely and smoothly down a flat 30 degree slope. Please?

Design hint: internal cavities, springs, gears and/or moving counter-weights.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:16 pm

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 8:50 am
Location: chicago, IL area U.S.A
KelvinS wrote:
Based on this discussion, a cube or square wheel that rolls freely and smoothly down a flat 30 degree slope. Please?

Design hint: internal cavities, springs, gears and/or moving counter-weights.

I can make something similar - A cylinder that will roll up hill from a complete stop.

-d

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:35 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
darryl wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
Based on this discussion, a cube or square wheel that rolls freely and smoothly down a flat 30 degree slope. Please?

Design hint: internal cavities, springs, gears and/or moving counter-weights.

I can make something similar - A cylinder that will roll up hill from a complete stop.

-d

Of course making it do half a turn would be easy if you put a weight at the top, but to make it keep rolling would require some kind of wind up mechanism to store potential energy. On the other hand, a square wheel could roll down hill forever if the tipping could be enabled and then controlled by repeatedly storing and releasing just a small amount of potential energy.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:45 pm

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: Vancouver, Washington
KelvinS wrote:
Of course making it do half a turn would be easy if you put a weight at the top, but to make it keep rolling would require some kind of wind up mechanism to store potential energy. On the other hand, a square wheel could roll down hill forever if the tipping could be enabled and then controlled by repeatedly storing and releasing just a small amount of potential energy.
It's not that hard.

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 Post subject: Re: A *real* impossible challenge for Oskar?Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:42 am

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 8:50 am
Location: chicago, IL area U.S.A
Actually I was thinking a wind up like mechanism. You take a hollow cylinder. Inside you attach a rubber band at one radius, attach a heavy weight to the middle of the rubber band, and stretch the rubber band to the other radius. (A coffee can with a lid would work well). Then as you roll it, the rubber band winds up. Once it's wound up, you can turn it around and set it on a slight incline and it will go up.

-d

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