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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:32 pm 
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After I have disassemble it I make the conclusion that this puzzle is not made for shapeshifting.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:11 pm 
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zamkam wrote:
Volitar Prime wrote:
sear70 wrote:
My 3x4x5 is great, I do not have any problems with It. The 2x3x4 locks up from the parts inside after scrambling, and the peices get out of alignment.
Actually your 3x4x5 does have it, you just might not have found it yet. It is in the design of the puzzle. There is some discussion about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22994


The 3x4x5 locking is very different from the one I described for the 2x3x4: that one is built into the structure, it has nothing to do with pieces getting out of alignment. The 2x3x4 locking, on the other hand, happens because the core is detached from the outer pieces but it has grooves needed for those pieces to move. When the 3x4 face does a 180 turn, the core doesn't always turn that much, so the grooves needed for the 2x4 faces get out of alignment. This doesn't affect the 2x3 faces because they're held by the inner 2x3 and don't touch the core. The problem can be fixed by gluing one (and ONLY one) of the center pieces to the core.

Have you tried it to see if it works?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:16 pm 
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I was not able to make the video putting in the new peice's, but it did work out useing the other edge parts from another 2x3x4. Just sad that I had to buy 2 of them to make one work.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:09 pm 
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To expand upon my sketchy thoughts from earlier, I've just typed up some waffle to explain in more detail, and to cope with inadvertent assumptions I had made about how I was holding the puzzle. Here:

[Edit: in view of Gus' comment below that the internal bandaging could regarded as an extra layer of difficulty in solving the puzzle, I felt I should add a sort of spoiler warning here. The link below contains ways to sort of out blocking (or at least all of the blockings I've encountered), so don't read it if you want to sort it out yourself!]

http://tartarus.org/gareth/stuff/cubes/234blocking.html

It looks a bit long, but mostly that's because I'm trying to describe in words something which is easy to see visually -- but I don't have the ability to make a video showing what I mean. It doesn't take long at all to resolve the problem now that I'm used to it.

As the page mentions, there are still a couple of assumptions. I shall keep playing with the thing, and pondering it. But for now, this method has allowed me several straightforwards solves this evening, including shape-shifting. The only difficult bit that remains is looking inside when it's not too bright in the room!

If it doesn't work (there may be typos, despite checking), please let me know.


Last edited by drswirly on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Perhaps we should all take a step back and consider what we have here. I know that this puzzle is described as "fully functional", but maybe the internal bandaging which happens could be viewed as an extra difficulty to this puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Gus wrote:
maybe the internal bandaging which happens could be viewed as an extra difficulty to this puzzle?

That's what I've found this evening. Knowing now how to get into and out of the various blocked positions I've encountered, I've found myself trying to concoct moves that will bypass them, or maybe end me up in the "two blocked ends" state (which I can solve more quickly). This has actually made it rather more fun, as it's otherwise a rather simple puzzle once you're used to the 3x4x5.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:25 am 
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Gus wrote:
Perhaps we should all take a step back and consider what we have here. I know that this puzzle is described as "fully functional", but maybe the internal bandaging which happens could be viewed as an extra difficulty to this puzzle?
Sorry Gus, I just don't see it.. I don't expect to have to `pull the pieces apart` to peak into the internal mechanism in order to solve the puzzle. If Sear70 has solved the issue by simply replacing the `whole internal 3x3 edges` with all `split internal edges` then this simply should have been what was released. It woud be good form for MF8 to be posting out replacement split 3x3 inner edges if this is the case!

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:56 am 
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I agree with Burgo's view here - this puzzle is meant to be a fully functional one so if there is a problem MF8 should be trying to rectify it.

By all means if they want to release a puzzle that locks up internally as an extra challenge they should do so but they should let people know that before they buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Mine arrived today. It took only a few turns before one 2x3 end was blocked. I looked at drswirly's page on how to unblock, and followed along to a point, but even though I tried every combination of the moves, it's still blocked. It's probably my inability to understand exactly what's written there, but I think it would have been pretty difficult for drswirly to make it any clearer in written form.

In fact, now both ends are blocked. I now possess another useless puzzle from mf8. I'm completely on the side of "If mf8 wanted to sell a cuboid with amazing blocking moves they should have marketed it as such". <sarcasm>Thanks mf8!</sarcasm>

I hope someone much smarter than me comes up with a simple set of moves to enable this puzzle to be used as a puzzle and not as hammer practice.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:58 am 
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This is odd. I brought two of these puzzles with me. Mone is locked tighter than a drum. The other-smooth as silk. So is it hit and miss, or was one played with more than the other and just hit a snag?

I'll be bringing mine back home and see if I can't work something out later next week. If there's an easier fix than buying another, il post it.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:59 am 
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Hi Rox,

Unfortunately it's a mechanism problem that exists on every puzzle (that we know of so far). There are 2 different types of `hidden internal edges` (`split` and `whole`). The types are exchangable when the puzzle is shape shifted, and when the `whole type` go into the position where a `split type` is needed the outer 2x3 layer will become seized. We think that if all of the internal edges were the `split type` this wouldn't happen (all of the puzzles we've received have both types, it's possible you have one with all `split inner edges`, but you probably just need to shape shift it a bit to find the problem). I think it's probable MF8 will want to do something about this. I'm hopeful.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:03 am 
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Hello again. I have rewritten my 2x3x4 page completely, adding photos. I also removed the wordy explanation about reducing to earlier states, replacing it with a single table of move sequences. (The waffle about conjugation-type stuff is commented out.)

I think I've checked each of the sequences. Please let me know if there are any improvements that could be made to the explanations, or if there are any typos I haven't spotted. Link as before:

http://tartarus.org/gareth/stuff/cubes/234blocking.html

Edit: I have just seen Burgo's post, suggesting that the pieces might be mixed between puzzles. I had been assuming based on the video and my own puzzle that the "equatorial" four hidden inner edges were the "bad" edges that cause blocking, while the outer edges (those leading out to the 2x3 faces) were the split ones that allow movement. If the edges are indeed mixed up in puzzles, then I'm not sure my solutions will work. I think that it will if the puzzle has ever turned freely, as that would imply the are at least enough good edges. Hmm...


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:29 am 
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Burgo wrote:
Hi Rox,

Unfortunately it's a mechanism problem that exists on every puzzle (that we know of so far). There are 2 different types of `hidden internal edges` (`split` and `whole`). The types are exchangable when the puzzle is shape shifted, and when the `whole type` go into the position where a `split type` is needed the outer 2x3 layer will become seized. We think that if all of the internal edges were the `split type` this wouldn't happen (all of the puzzles we've received have both types, it's possible you have one with all `split inner edges`, but you probably just need to shape shift it a bit to find the problem). I think it's probable MF8 will want to do something about this. I'm hopeful.

Cheers,
Burgo.


I did change out the hole edges with the split edges and it works fine now. I have solved it 5 times in a row and not 1 lock up. It does catch but not that bad. It is getting better the more it gets broke in.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm 
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This is really unfortunate. I was so excited to buy a few :(


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:28 pm 
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hawk wrote:
This is really unfortunate. I was so excited to buy a few :(
A few? Two would be enough, as sear70 pointed out. :wink: You can then make one fully functional and one strangely shaped 2x2x3.
This would be still less expensive than one of my custom made.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
hawk wrote:
This is really unfortunate. I was so excited to buy a few :(
A few? Two would be enough, as sear70 pointed out. :wink: You can then make one fully functional and one strangely shaped 2x2x3.
This would be still less expensive than one of my custom made.


Thank you Konrad. I do have to say that I am enjoying it now that it works the right way.
I did try to make a video of what I did and it did not come out and did not want to take it apart agian. But if any one needs help with it, I will try to remake a video on it.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:59 pm 
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sear70 wrote:
I did change out the hole edges with the split edges and it works fine now. I have solved it 5 times in a row and not 1 lock up. It does catch but not that bad. It is getting better the more it gets broke in.

mf8!!! Are you listening??? Can you, will you, put them together correctly now, so we can buy puzzles that work? :D Please let us know when correctly assembled 2x3x4 puzzles are ready for purchase. :D

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Has anyone actually tried to contact MF8 about this?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:02 am 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
Has anyone actually tried to contact MF8 about this?

In the normal world, if I buy a toaster from someone, it's generally not the manufacturer. It's a retailer. If the toaster doesn't work, I take it back to the retailer and get one that does work. I know the online world is not the real world, but if I lived near the retailer of this puzzle I would go there and ask for one that works. It's unfortunate for the retailer, but I guess as a retailer you have to have some sense of standing by what you sell. I think in a case such as this, where basically every single product has the same problem, the retailer needs to communicate with the manufacturer and provide some solution to the (hopefully) valued customers. I'm would hope that's already in the works.

I put a little lube on my 2x3x4 and it turns really nicely now. This makes it more frustrating since it keeps locking up and there's no simple way to unlock it.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Thanks Burgo telling me about this issue.
I have talked you to Mr. mf8. Before production, there are 2 ways to make this 2x3x4.
One is the normal and simple 2x3x4 full function cube, the other is 2x3x4 full function cube with bandaging mechanism which increase the difficulties. With concern of tp friends, Mr. mf8 choose the 2nd one to make a challenge and see if we can find the key to solve the bandaging mechanism.
Sorry that I missed to point out this challenge / bandaging mechanism at the begining.

Gus wrote:
Perhaps we should all take a step back and consider what we have here. I know that this puzzle is described as "fully functional", but maybe the internal bandaging which happens could be viewed as an extra difficulty to this puzzle?

Thanks Gus to explain the issues.

drswirly wrote:

Thanks drswirly, to find the solution.
PS : send me an email, I shall send you a free gift. ^^

More discuss on this challenge / bandaging mechanism, have a look below,
http://bbs.mf8-china.com/forum.php?mod= ... a=page%3D1
Remarks : Inside, there are 2 ways to solve the bandaging mechanism. One is looking into the hidden internal edges, and the other does not. Please use translator to read it.


Any further question, feel free to reach me at calvinfan@hknowstore.com .

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:16 pm 
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excalvin wrote:
Thanks Burgo telling me about this issue.
I have talked you to Mr. mf8. Before production, there are 2 ways to make this 2x3x4.
One is the normal and simple 2x3x4 full function cube, the other is 2x3x4 full function cube with bandaging mechanism which increase the difficulties. With concern of tp friends, Mr. mf8 choose the 2nd one to make a challenge and see if we can find the key to solve the bandaging mechanism.

Thank you for this clarification, Calvin.

Now that this is cleared up, could a version 2 be offered that does not have the bandaging, since some of us puzzle enthusiasts (potential customers) do not like bandaged puzzles?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:28 pm 
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I want a 2x3x4 that is just that, a 2x3x4 haha. I apology if that seems rude but I just really want a normal one


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:00 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Now that this is cleared up, could a version 2 be offered that does not have the bandaging, since some of us puzzle enthusiasts (potential customers) do not like bandaged puzzles?
Could they sell a kit of parts to make the conversion? The problem with buying a second puzzle to swap parts is that the donor puzzle won't have much to offer after it gets a full set of bandaged edge pieces! :mrgreen:

Perhaps this is a good time for me to learn to cast small parts?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Whenever a puzzle is advertised as fully functional, it does not mean hidden bandaging. Am I missing something here?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Now that this is cleared up, could a version 2 be offered that does not have the bandaging, since some of us puzzle enthusiasts (potential customers) do not like bandaged puzzles?[/quote]

I would be happy to see a real fully fonctionnal 2x3x4, me to :D .

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:27 pm 
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excalvin wrote:
I have talked you to Mr. mf8. Before production, there are 2 ways to make this 2x3x4.
One is the normal and simple 2x3x4 full function cube, the other is 2x3x4 full function cube with bandaging mechanism which increase the difficulties. With concern of tp friends, Mr. mf8 choose the 2nd one to make a challenge and see if we can find the key to solve the bandaging mechanism.

Sorry Calvin, but i don't buy this one bit. If Mr mf8 really had two designs, a bandaged and non-bandaged, I have no doubt he would have advertised and built two separate puzzles as separate puzzles. and the one he's currently selling would have had "bandaged" in its name. The fact that you have now changed the title of the topic doesn't change anything. My opinion is that this is trying to clean up a mess that only exists because of an mf8 oversight.

excalvin wrote:
Sorry that I missed to point out this challenge / bandaging mechanism at the begining.

I thnk you missed to point it out because you didn't know it existed.

excalvin wrote:
Thanks Gus to explain the issues.

Gus didn't explain any issues. Gus asked us to change our view of what this puzzle could be, in light of the fact that it didn't work as advertised.

excalvin wrote:
Thanks drswirly, to find the solution.
PS : send me an email, I shall send you a free gift. ^^

By all means, send drswirly a free gift, but he has not found "the solution". I have worked through his page with many PMs with him, and it does not work for my particular puzzle. There are some assumptions he's made which don't appear to be true on all puzzles. Plus, even if that was "the solution", it's quite involved and not part of the original advertised puzzle.

ft38 wrote:
Whenever a puzzle is advertised as fully functional, it does not mean hidden bandaging. Am I missing something here?

You're not missing a thing, Frank. This explanation from Calvin is a butt-cover.

~~~~~~~~

Calvin, I have a lot of respect for you. You've been fantastic with after-sales service in the past and have built a good rep at least over the time I've been involved in the TP world.

Now, for those of us who ordered and expected an ordinary, fully functional, non-bandaged 2x3x4, could you please either send us one, or else send us a 2nd bandaged puzzle so that we can make one ourselves? Surely this is not an unreasonable thing? We ordered a particular kind of puzzle and the least that should happen is that we receive that puzzle.

Using my analogy above, what you've explained is like someone buying a toaster and then discovering that it's a microwave but the seller forgot to specify it was a microwave. I suspect that if this puzzle had cost $200, rather than $20, there'd be a whole lot more jumping up and down about it.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:56 pm 
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excalvin wrote:
Thanks Burgo telling me about this issue.
I have talked you to Mr. mf8. Before production, there are 2 ways to make this 2x3x4.
One is the normal and simple 2x3x4 full function cube, the other is 2x3x4 full function cube with bandaging mechanism which increase the difficulties. With concern of tp friends, Mr. mf8 choose the 2nd one to make a challenge and see if we can find the key to solve the bandaging mechanism.
Sorry that I missed to point out this challenge / bandaging mechanism at the begining.

Gus wrote:
Perhaps we should all take a step back and consider what we have here. I know that this puzzle is described as "fully functional", but maybe the internal bandaging which happens could be viewed as an extra difficulty to this puzzle?

Thanks Gus to explain the issues.

drswirly wrote:

Thanks drswirly, to find the solution.
PS : send me an email, I shall send you a free gift. ^^

More discuss on this challenge / bandaging mechanism, have a look below,
http://bbs.mf8-china.com/forum.php?mod= ... a=page%3D1
Remarks : Inside, there are 2 ways to solve the bandaging mechanism. One is looking into the hidden internal edges, and the other does not. Please use translator to read it.


Any further question, feel free to reach me at calvinfan@hknowstore.com .


I may not have found the key to solve the bandaging, But i did find out why it was locking up and made it fully functionable. How about a gift for that :lol: .


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:11 pm 
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I have one of these on its way to me and don't want this bandaged version. How can I exchange it for a real fully functioning one? I would not have ordered it bandaged like this.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:13 pm 
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In light of the fact that another manufacturer got away early this year with selling a puzzle that did not work, and required extensive modifications that proved to be beyond some of us, what makes us think that anyone will do anything about this? And then there is the puzzle that was expensive to begin with, yet did not work well, but then later a new core was sold that could make it more functional. And the fix involved breaking some of the pieces and gluing them back together.

It seems in the case of the 2x3x4, it would be an easy thing for the manufacturer to assemble the puzzles without the bandaging, now that they know how we feel, and market the puzzle that way. This would be nice for those of us who did not buy the original.

Are there any puzzle manufacturers that have a spotless record of selling puzzles that work correctly? Perhaps they should be rewarded with more of our business.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:41 am 
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I have to agree with rline, it does seem a bit fishy that after all these problems arise the puzzle is a bandaging puzzle. I haven't received mine yet, even though it's been 3 weeks, which is weird for the hknowstore but that's another story and im sure it will come this week, anyways, I personally don't want another one, isn't there a way to ship out of the piece we need? Heck, I'd be willing to buy different puzzle and have you ship the internal piece with it so it wasn't such a small package.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:31 am 
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Hi Calvin,
excalvin wrote:
Remarks : Inside, there are 2 ways to solve the bandaging mechanism. One is looking into the hidden internal edges, and the other does not.
Any `method` of `solving` the internal bandaging without prying the pieces apart and viewing the internal mechanism will have an amount of randomness to it, which will involve some form of `checking` where the internal edges are located: the internal edges will always be randomly dispersed.

I just don't buy it that this was the intended release: if it was intended it's one of the silliest and `ugliest to solve` concepts I've seen. No window to view the internal mechanism? No coloured internal mechanism? No writing on the box? I'm feeling a bit paitronised actually: if it was the intention, surely it would have been mentioned as a major feature.

As it stands I am finding the most useful strategy is not to solve the internal bandaging completely `until last`: only to unblock the outer layer that needs twisting temporarily when necessary, because a lot of sequences will reblock it.

robertpauljr wrote:
Are there any puzzle manufacturers that have a spotless record of selling puzzles that work correctly? Perhaps they should be rewarded with more of our business.
Certainly people who stand by their products and are prepared to fix problems are the ones who receive repeat business, especially when the problems are easy to fix. I think we're getting to the stage where people will be hesitant to be the first to buy new puzzles.

Aether13 wrote:
I personally don't want another one, isn't there a way to ship out of the piece we need? Heck, I'd be willing to buy different puzzle and have you ship the internal piece with it so it wasn't such a small package.
I agree with Aether13, why don't you just offer to send the small replacement parts out with our next order from you? Win/Win.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:00 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Are there any puzzle manufacturers that have a spotless record of selling puzzles that work correctly? Perhaps they should be rewarded with more of our business.


Maybe Witeden ? I like their puzzles.

I didn't buy a 2x3x4 but I think sending the replacement parts with the next order is the least they should do.
Normaly sending them without a new order would be right I think. Mf8 should be more careful with what they release..


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:01 am 
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Well, what a kurfuffle! If mf8 can't get this puzzle right, what chance do we give the Eitan's Star puzzle to not have problems? I for one won't be buying this immediately on release, as I suspect it will be a "beta" release and will need some user testing before it works correctly.

Also, has anyone notice the banner graphic on the mf8 site for Eitan's Star?
Attachment:
File comment: Eitan's Star Banner
mf8_banner.jpg
mf8_banner.jpg [ 106.73 KiB | Viewed 3699 times ]

This bodes ill :(

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:23 am 
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I understand that most people would prefer a non-blocking puzzle to having to unblock the current one by peering inside, but can I ask if anybody else has tried my suggestions for unblocking it? I've heard only from rline, for whom it was unsuccessful, but it sounds like his puzzle can get into a position that I'm fairly convinced is impossible for mine.

If others have comments then I could try to improve my method, or alternatively give up with it if it turns out that other puzzles are indeed assembled differently.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:53 am 
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drswirly wrote:
I understand that most people would prefer a non-blocking puzzle to having to unblock the current one by peering inside, but can I ask if anybody else has tried my suggestions for unblocking it? I've heard only from rline, for whom it was unsuccessful, but it sounds like his puzzle can get into a position that I'm fairly convinced is impossible for mine.

If others have comments then I could try to improve my method, or alternatively give up with it if it turns out that other puzzles are indeed assembled differently.
Hi Drswirly,
I have been using a reduction method like with the 345: reducing the 234 to a 223.

Because a reduction method only requires one of the external R or L layers [2x4 U, 3x4 F] to be twisted at any given time. I place the pieces to be exchanged on the R layer with 223 twists, then I only check if the R layer is blocked, and unblock it if necessary, do my R2 twist, and move on. Any edges only sequence can be used to move internal edges, from any chosen orientation: [(R2 U2)x3], [(R2 U)x2 (R2 U2)x2 (R2 U R2 U' R2)], [(R2 U2 R2 F2)x2]etc. I only bothered to unblock the puzzle fully after it was solved.

It's impossible to flip the internal edges due to the `domino effect`, so it won't be seized due to this. But I find that sometimes the edge sequences need to be approached from another orientation due to the fused edge/centre which makes the problem even more frustrating. I suspect that this might be the conflict Rline is having with your method?

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:10 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I have been using a reduction method like with the 345: reducing the 234 to a 223.

I don't actually do any explicit reduction method on the 345 or 234, which is odd given that I do on many other puzzles. Perhaps I should try that, as it might be fun.

Quote:
But I find that sometimes the edge sequences need to be approached from another orientation due to the fused edge/centre which makes the problem even more frustrating. I suspect that this might be the conflict Rline is having with your method?

Yes, I think the difficulty Rline had is to do with the fused edge/centre, since his was able to get into a position which I think the fusing prevents on mine. I would happily be proved wrong about that, however!


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 am 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
I have one of these on its way to me and don't want this bandaged version. How can I exchange it for a real fully functioning one? I would not have ordered it bandaged like this.

Calvin,

I am also in this position. Mine is currently in the post! I WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT IT if I had known it was not fully functional. Please tell me how I can get it replaced with one that is or get the parts necessary to make it work as initially described!

I look forward to you telling everyone what you are going to do to remedy the situation.

I know it is only $20 but most of us buy from you preferentially because we specifically trust you and your reputation. Please don't ruin our opinion of you!

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:06 am 
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Quote:
I know it is only $20 but most of us buy from you preferentially because we specifically trust you and your reputation. Please don't ruin our opinion of you!

Beautifully put!

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:17 am 
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@ Sear70,

My question is: How to do the edge arrangement with the split edge replacement?

I think you would only replace 3 whole edges and leave the bandaged one alone.. or do you just glue the large side of a split edge to a centre and put it on the U or D centre [3x4 F, 2x4 U]? Or did you not bandage anything at all?

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:52 am 
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excalvin wrote:
...Mr. mf8 choose the 2nd one to make a challenge and see if we can find the key to solve the bandaging mechanism. Sorry that I missed to point out this challenge / bandaging mechanism at the begining.


OK, someone has to say it: EITHER excalvin is stupid OR he thinks we are all stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:00 am 
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zamkam wrote:
OK, someone has to say it: EITHER excalvin is stupid OR he thinks we are all stupid.


Or you're stupid. MF8 are the manufacturers. Calvin is the retailer. It's wonderful that they have the communication between them that they do. By definition, this is still a fully functional 2x3x4; all axes turn and it does shapeshift. It's not Calvin's fault the puzzle gets bandaged, MF8 should have ensured that the description was clear.

You bought a 2x3x4. You received a 2x3x4. You received it safely (Calvin's responsibility). It wasn't to your standard (MF8's responsibility). Go moan at them, not Calvin.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:36 am 
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zamkam wrote:
OK, someone has to say it: EITHER excalvin is ....
Calvin is relaying a message from MF8 and he quickly updated the description on his website to avoid further confusion. Calvin is in a difficult position. He can't publically blame or criticize his supplier MF8, but he must keep his customers satisfied to the extent possible. In my dealings with Calvin, he has always been helpful and committed to meeting my expectations.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:43 am 
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I think that Calvin is doing his best here, but unfortunately it is the retailer who gets all of the complaints in situations like this. Maybe mf8 knew about the bandaging but kept quiet, maybe mf8 did not know because they did not do enough testing, we just don't know. Give Calvin a chance to sort this out before we hang, draw and quarter him.

BTW, hknowstore makes it clear that the puzzle is bandaged, but the mf8 site says nothing about it.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:44 am 
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Gus wrote:
Well, what a kurfuffle! ...(
Yes, still I would never say something impolite about Calvin. (And I suppose, Gus will do this neither.) I've always recognized great customer service in the few cases a had a problem with his deliveries. I agree, that he is in a difficult position, but he is not the one to be blamed!

For anybody who can live with the current blocking/bandaging, but who has never solved a 3x4x5 before, I've posted here.

Please, be warned this is close to a complete spoiler :wink:
My post was meant as a kind of challenge, too.
How do you manage a 3-cycle of 2x4 edges?
(A swap of two 2x3 edges is pretty trivial.)

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:46 am 
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Burgo wrote:
@ Sear70,

My question is: How to do the edge arrangement with the split edge replacement?

I think you would only replace 3 whole edges and leave the bandaged one alone.. or do you just glue the large side of a split edge to a centre and put it on the U or D centre [3x4 F, 2x4 U]? Or did you not bandage anything at all?


Yes 1 edge is banaged and needs to be. and just change out the other 3 for the split edges, But make sure that the split edges go in the right way or they will couse a problem. I will be making a video soon as I can for the people that want's to make there's a normal 2x3x4. "BUT" for the people that want's to do this, you will need two of them.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:51 am 
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Luke wrote:
You bought a 2x3x4. You received a 2x3x4. You received it safely (Calvin's responsibility). It wasn't to your standard (MF8's responsibility). Go moan at them, not Calvin.

Technically you are not correct! Under UK and US sales law the goods should be sold "as described" and if they are not (they weren't when I ordered) then the retailer is the one held liable (they can later claim from the manufacturer). Obviously this would be impossible to enforce with Calvin in Hong Kong but as I said earlier he trades on his very hard earned reputation. He obviously is in contact with MF8 and should be working out a solution for us - not because we are going to sue him but because he has to maintain our good will for future custom.

BUT if you insist then I will complain to MF8! Does anyone know how we may contact them?

Does anyone want to place any bets on the likelihood of receiving any reply at all? Let alone one with a satisfactory outcome?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:05 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
BUT if you insist then I will complain to MF8! Does anyone know how we may contact them?
There are some emails on the mf8 website, you could try them.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:14 am 
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Gus wrote:
There are some emails on the mf8 website, you could try them.

I will do this as soon as my puzzle arrives and I experience the lockup! It would not be right to complain myself until I actually own the puzzle and have experienced the problem! :lol:

Either way, I am hoping that Calvin can sort out this mess for us - he is in regular communication with MF8 and probably speaks their native language (I certainly don't!!). I am perfectly happy to buy another puzzle and have the appropriate extra parts slipped into the package at that time!

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:11 am 
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zamkam wrote:
OK, someone has to say it: EITHER excalvin is stupid OR he thinks we are all stupid.

Expressed a bit strongly but I agree with the sentiment. It is very hard to believe that the puzzle was intentionally sent out like this considering how it was advertised.

Luke wrote:
Or you're stupid. MF8 are the manufacturers. Calvin is the retailer.....You bought a 2x3x4. You received a 2x3x4. You received it safely (Calvin's responsibility). It wasn't to your standard (MF8's responsibility). Go moan at them, not Calvin.


As far as I am aware under the distance selling regulations you have a "7 day cooling off period" for goods bought online - if you don't want them they can be returned to the retailer, not to the manufacturer, so it is appropriate, I believe, that people who bought these puzzles from Calvin are asking him if there is anything that can be done rather than sending them back.


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