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 Post subject: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:20 am 
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Shapeways states on their website "The price of a product depends on the volume of material you use, calculated from the actual volume of your finished product, not the volume of its bounding box. The product detail page displays the pricing of each product. All prices include shipping and handling. Depending on your country, tax will be added."

I've uploaded a model of 99.41 cm^3 some time ago. To reduce the price, I've added some holes and such and now the volume is 77.92 cm^3 (bravo!).

I now expected the price to reduce also seeing above calculation model, but the price in WSF compared between both has now an INCREASE of nearly 30% for the new lighter model.
(price comparance per today; so not compared to the order I made a few months ago)

I'm currently asking Shapeways about this. I'm very interested in their response.... :shock:
Price for the new model is also far more than the $1.40/cm^3 x 77.92 cm^3 + $ 1.50 handling fee.

Anyone a similar experience or some logic how this can be?
(note: the new model has not increased in outer dimensions)

So a warning also: always check if the price offered at Shapeways is realistic compared with your other models.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:07 am 
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Does the volume that is shown together with your model at Shapeways coinside with what you measured yourself (77.92)?

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Last edited by Timur on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:35 am 
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You also have to take into account the 50% discount given over 20cm^3 as long as the density is >10%. I always double check the Shapeways price using a spreadsheet I have created, and it is usually within a few cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:44 am 
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Gus wrote:
You also have to take into account the 50% discount given over 20cm^3 as long as the density is >10%.


Is this discount also stated on the Shapeways website?
I've not seen this before. Please provide a reference if you have.

(I'm not sure my model in its total outer volume is >10% dense. I think so)


Timur wrote:
Does the volume that is shown together with your model at Shapeways coinside with what you measured yourself (77.92)

I did not check this in my model myself, but I believe it's correct.
Basically I know the new model has less volume because I made quite some holes in it (and did not add material on other areas). So, I'd expect a lower price....

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:56 am 
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Oskar did a post about this a while ago and even showed a graph if I recall. Sometimes on his models he actually adds little solid cubes to make them the most cost efficient.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:08 am 
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Gus wrote:
You also have to take into account the 50% discount given over 20cm^3 as long as the density is >10%. I always double check the Shapeways price using a spreadsheet I have created, and it is usually within a few cents.
This could explain increase in price, but it does not explain this:
Splinter wrote:
Price for the new model is also far more than the $1.40/cm^3 x 77.92 cm^3 + $ 1.50 handling fee.

Splinter wrote:
Basically I know the new model has less volume because I made quite some holes in it (and did not add material on other areas).
Under some circumstances hollowing of the part can lead to forbidden geometry like self-intersecting of the outer surface (I observed that a couple of times with SolidWorks "shell" feature) that is differently interpreted by SolidWorks and Shapeways when it comes to calculating volume. So the volume that is calculated by Shapeways may become significantly bigger. But anyway, you would see this if you check the calculated volume on the model page.

And another idea - you could mix up $/€ currency and VAT included/excluded :)

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:22 am 
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Timur wrote:
And another idea - you could mix up $/€ currency and VAT included/excluded :)

You could, but I didn't. I have all my models next to each other on the Shapeways 'My Models' page, all listed in Euro and in WSF.
To check the $1.40 I switched to the prices in $.


There's however one thing that's quite frustrating: because Shapeways produces in the Netherlands (for Europe), I pay 19% tax where other European buyers don't have these costs involved.
(as long as Shapeways does not sell for more than Euro 100.000,- per country I believe. In that case Shapeways has to pay tax to other countries, and they'll probably reimburse this also when this happens in future)

Turning back to the original issue:
I can try out to do some 'removal of holes' and see what the result in production cost will be.

Just got the reply from Shapeways (translated):
My model of 77.92 cm^3 has a density of 9.85%. Due to relative more efficient production planning for larger models, Shapeways provides a discount starting at a volume of 20 cm^3 and a density of 10%. After the first 20cm^3 Shapeways gives a discount of 50% on the rest of the volume of the model.


Gus, you were right (again).
Now I know where indeed to work on. That I came with my first design that close to the 10% density discount-border. How typical :?

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:31 am 
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Splinter wrote:
There's however one thing that's quite frustrating: because Shapeways produces in the Netherlands (for Europe), I pay 19% tax where other European buyers don't have these costs involved.
(as long as Shapeways does not sell for more than Euro 100.000,- per country I believe. In that case Shapeways has to pay tax to other countries, and they'll probably reimburse this also when this happens in the future)
All European buyers pay the 19% VAT and there's no such 100.000 limit. Non-Europeans may have to pay import tax which can be far more expensive, especially with handling fees.
The only exception are European businesses not located in The Netherlands. They do not have to pay the 19% when ordering but they do have to pay the VAT in their own countries (which can be at a different rate).

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:37 am 
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On my spreadsheet I put in the size of the bounding box for the model and then the volume and number of each of the parts, and it calculates the price for WSF based on the "50% discount for volumes over 20cm3 if the density is >10%".

As you and others have found, if you remove material to reduce costs, they can actually go up if the density then drops below 10%. In this case you have to reduce the volume of the bounding box by moving some parts together, or add some small parts (as Oskar says, even small pieces of dummy material will do) to make the density >10%.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:46 am 
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Gus wrote:
On my spreadsheet I put in the size of the bounding box for the model and then the volume and number of each of the parts, and it calculates the price for WSF based on the "50% discount for volumes over 20cm3 if the density is >10%".

As you and others have found, if you remove material to reduce costs, they can actually go up if the density then drops below 10%. In this case you have to reduce the volume of the bounding box by moving some parts together, or add some small parts (as Oskar says, even small pieces of dummy material will do) to make the density >10%.


Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Oskar wrote-
Quote:
I had to slide in some extra pieces to avoid the Shapeways density penalty.
(If the model density is a bit below 10%, then you have to pay 66.6% extra ...)

He made a graph but I can't find now. It may be on the Shapeways forum some where.

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:59 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
He made a graph but I can't find now. It may be on the Shapeways forum some where.

I think it was all discussed here:

http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.ph ... 7&start=0&

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 Post subject: Re: Shapeways volume price policy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:10 am 
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Done! Reducing the bounding box now gives me almost an 18% cost reduction on the model.

Thanks for all input!


- Splinter
...anxious looking forward to his Shapeways package set for arrival on 15/08....

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