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 Post subject: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism !
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Be kindly noted that the mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube with bandaged mechanism
has been mass produced and just released !
Dimension : 36*54x72 mm
Weight : about 120 g

This is a 2x3x4.with bandaged machiansm. Before restored all faces, you have to solve the internal bandaged machiansm, that is the "whole" hidden edges and "split" hidden edges should go back to original positions.

Product photo :
Attachment:
234 white.jpg
234 white.jpg [ 41.36 KiB | Viewed 9317 times ]

Attachment:
234 black & white.jpg
234 black & white.jpg [ 18.46 KiB | Viewed 9317 times ]

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Last edited by calvinfan on Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Very nice. Not sure if I am happy or sad though.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Cuboids! This makes me happy.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:47 pm 
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I will buy two as soon as they are listed!


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Telow wrote:
I will buy two as soon as they are listed!

That would be now.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:31 pm 
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I want to buy one, (when I have the money :lol: ...), but I wonder how's the quality this time, because last time with the 3x4x5, it was a little bit disapointing :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Wonderful news - I am always happy when this is cuboĂŻd !
Next desirable steps 1x2x3, 3x5x7 and 5x5x3 !!


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Very nice. Not sure if I am happy or sad though.

Why?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:34 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Very nice. Not sure if I am happy or sad though.

Why?

I make no claims over any cuboid but I was the first to make this puzzle. When you spend a lot of time and effort making something new you can't help but feel attached to it. Kind of like your child leaving home for the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:14 pm 
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FINALLY! :mrgreen:
I just ordered one...I have been waiting so long for one....good thing I have patience.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:34 am 
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Awesome, I order immediately :D I think the quality will be better because it's a smaller puzzle, not so many pieces to work with.

Also I would like to see the 4x4x3 get mass produced. Please mf8 haha?


Last edited by Aether13 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:39 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
robertpauljr wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Very nice. Not sure if I am happy or sad though.

Why?

I make no claims over any cuboid but I was the first to make this puzzle. When you spend a lot of time and effort making something new you can't help but feel attached to it. Kind of like your child leaving home for the first time.


Maybe the cube looks the same, but the inner structure is different. We have talked to Garrett, whose structure is alike, and he is ok for us to mass produce.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:17 am 
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MF8 wrote:
Maybe the cube looks the same, but the inner structure is different. We have talked to Garrett, whose structure is alike, and he is ok for us to mass produce.

That's bad news for me. I bought Garrett's 2x3x4 a while back and I was very disappointed with the quality because of two MAJOR problems:

1. The center core can get "off track" and lock the 2x4 faces (a problem acknowledged by Garrett himself).
2. The edge pieces in the 2x3 faces are so loosely coupled to the other pieces that they sometimes fall off the puzzle while turning. Notice I didn't say "pop", it's not another piece pushing and causing them to dislodge, they just fall. Very irritating.

I wonder if these two problems have been corrected in the mass-produced version. Garret once wrote about going back to the drawing board and fixing #1, but since that posting I never heard anything from him again (and his youtube channel has been closed, what happened?).

So......is this the same version or is it the "new and improved" 2x3x4?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:52 am 
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Quote:
Maybe the cube looks the same, but the inner structure is different. We have talked to Garrett, whose structure is alike, and he is ok for us to mass produce.

Absolutely. Like I say, I would never claim rights to any cuboid.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:20 pm 
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I've had a hand made version for a while,it's a very nice puzzle that shape shifts and has some quirky solutions.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:28 pm 
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This is a very nice surprise! It should shape-shift. It seems like we are in a "golden age" of cuboid twisty puzzles!

alacoume wrote:
Wonderful news - I am always happy when this is cuboĂŻd !
Next desirable steps 1x2x3, 3x5x7 and 5x5x3 !!
These, and I also wish for a mass-produced 6x6x7 :mrgreen: .

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Perfect! I love me some cuboids.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:22 am 
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zamkam wrote:
MF8 wrote:
Maybe the cube looks the same, but the inner structure is different. We have talked to Garrett, whose structure is alike, and he is ok for us to mass produce.

That's bad news for me. I bought Garrett's 2x3x4 a while back and I was very disappointed with the quality because of two MAJOR problems:

1. The center core can get "off track" and lock the 2x4 faces (a problem acknowledged by Garrett himself).
2. The edge pieces in the 2x3 faces are so loosely coupled to the other pieces that they sometimes fall off the puzzle while turning. Notice I didn't say "pop", it's not another piece pushing and causing them to dislodge, they just fall. Very irritating.

I wonder if these two problems have been corrected in the mass-produced version. Garret once wrote about going back to the drawing board and fixing #1, but since that posting I never heard anything from him again (and his youtube channel has been closed, what happened?).

So......is this the same version or is it the "new and improved" 2x3x4?


I was contacted by MF8 about mass production shortly after finishing my second version, so I figured it would be pointless to release a new version with the knowledge that it would soon be mass produced anyways.

If the puzzle is properly assembled with the right parts bandaged, it shouldn't lock up. This problem would also be addressed with version 2, which has the parts pre-bonded.

These are the parts that should be bandaged together (one center, two hidden edges, and one corner):

Image

As for the Youtube channel it was closed for personal reasons, nothing to do with puzzles.

Anyways, glad this puzzle has seen the light of day in the form of mass production. It has been one of my favorite cuboids since the beginning :D

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 am 
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This is the mechanism for the second version. MF8 will have to chime in and comment on the similarity or difference, since I am not familiar with the details of their mechanism.

The outer layers are integrated into the core mechanism, unlike the first version which had them "tacked on" with a tongue and groove mechanism. Although the new version should be much more stable, I predicted it would not allow shapeshifting, and that was another reason why I decided not to print it.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:18 am 
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I have got Garret's version 1 and a handmade version from Traiphum.
I had no real problems with either of them.
Garret's version feels a bit loose after I have reassembled it. (I do not recollect the details why I took it apart).
Traiphum's is a bit larger (normal 3x3x3 cubie size) and shows his excellent craftmansship.

I ordered one from Calvin just to compare the three of them.

EDIT: I have won Traiphum's version in an Ebay auction back in November 2010. I do not know if he has made more than one. You cannot really compare the two, because Garret's version is fully functional and Traiphum's is not. After a 90 degree turn of the 2x4 faces on Traiphum's 2x3x4, you can do a turn of the 3x4 faces, but not a wide turn of the 2x3 faces. Let a 3x4 face be F and a 2x4 face U: U (Rr)2 is NOt possible on Traiphum's. U B2 works.
This does not make Traiphum's easier at all.

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Last edited by Konrad on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:50 pm 
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zamkam wrote:
MF8 wrote:
Maybe the cube looks the same, but the inner structure is different. We have talked to Garrett, whose structure is alike, and he is ok for us to mass produce.

That's bad news for me. I bought Garrett's 2x3x4 a while back and I was very disappointed with the quality because of two MAJOR problems:

1. The center core can get "off track" and lock the 2x4 faces (a problem acknowledged by Garrett himself).
2. The edge pieces in the 2x3 faces are so loosely coupled to the other pieces that they sometimes fall off the puzzle while turning. Notice I didn't say "pop", it's not another piece pushing and causing them to dislodge, they just fall. Very irritating.

I wonder if these two problems have been corrected in the mass-produced version. Garret once wrote about going back to the drawing board and fixing #1, but since that posting I never heard anything from him again (and his youtube channel has been closed, what happened?).

So......is this the same version or is it the "new and improved" 2x3x4?



I just got the MF8 2x3x4 and It has the same problem with the 2x4 track.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:14 am 
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sear70 wrote:
I just got the MF8 2x3x4 and It has the same problem with the 2x4 track.

So is this locking up problem the same kind of thing seen on the (I think) 3x4x5?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:41 am 
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rline wrote:
sear70 wrote:
I just got the MF8 2x3x4 and It has the same problem with the 2x4 track.

So is this locking up problem the same kind of thing seen on the (I think) 3x4x5?


My 3x4x5 is great, I do not have any problems with It. The 2x3x4 locks up from the parts inside after scrambling, and the peices get out of alignment.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:10 am 
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sear70 wrote:
My 3x4x5 is great, I do not have any problems with It. The 2x3x4 locks up from the parts inside after scrambling, and the peices get out of alignment.
Actually your 3x4x5 does have it, you just might not have found it yet. It is in the design of the puzzle. There is some discussion about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22994


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:56 am 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
sear70 wrote:
My 3x4x5 is great, I do not have any problems with It. The 2x3x4 locks up from the parts inside after scrambling, and the peices get out of alignment.
Actually your 3x4x5 does have it, you just might not have found it yet. It is in the design of the puzzle. There is some discussion about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22994


The 3x4x5 locking is very different from the one I described for the 2x3x4: that one is built into the structure, it has nothing to do with pieces getting out of alignment. The 2x3x4 locking, on the other hand, happens because the core is detached from the outer pieces but it has grooves needed for those pieces to move. When the 3x4 face does a 180 turn, the core doesn't always turn that much, so the grooves needed for the 2x4 faces get out of alignment. This doesn't affect the 2x3 faces because they're held by the inner 2x3 and don't touch the core. The problem can be fixed by gluing one (and ONLY one) of the center pieces to the core.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:51 pm 
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zamkam wrote:
... The problem can be fixed by gluing one (and ONLY one) of the center pieces to the core.
I guess that Garrett has fixed it this way on my 2x3x4 (it was assembled and stickered by himself). As I said above, I'm not aware of any problems, especially not of misalignment of inner parts.

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Last edited by Konrad on Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
zamkam wrote:
... The problem can be fixed by gluing one (and ONLY one) of the center pieces to the core.
I guess that Garrett has fixed it this way on my 2x3x4 (it was assembled and stickered by himdelf). As I said above, I'm not aware of any problems, especially not of misalignment of inner parts.


On the MF8 ver. It has one peice that Is glued in. The problem Is the same peice that Is on the oppisite side that can flip and couse the lock up. Like on a 3x3 when one edge Is fliped you can not solve It. I will try to make a video of the peice and what It Is doing.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:13 am 
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My 2x3x4 arrived this morning, and unfortunately I don't think I've yet managed to get an end 2x3 face to turn. Something inside seems to be blocking both end faces from turning, and so currently it's just an amusingly-shaped 2x2x3, which is a little disappointing. Does someone wise have a fix for this?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:08 am 
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Received mine yesterday, it turns no problem. It is not for speed cubing, but I have no lockups or pops yet. Maybe I am just lucky?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:16 pm 
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drswirly wrote:
My 2x3x4 arrived this morning, and unfortunately I don't think I've yet managed to get an end 2x3 face to turn. Something inside seems to be blocking both end faces from turning, and so currently it's just an amusingly-shaped 2x2x3, which is a little disappointing. Does someone wise have a fix for this?


I have another one on the way to fix It. I will "TRY" to make a video of what I found that Is making It lock up. I will post my video as soon as I can.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:01 pm 
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sear70 wrote:
drswirly wrote:
My 2x3x4 arrived this morning, and unfortunately I don't think I've yet managed to get an end 2x3 face to turn. Something inside seems to be blocking both end faces from turning, and so currently it's just an amusingly-shaped 2x2x3, which is a little disappointing. Does someone wise have a fix for this?


I have another one on the way to fix It. I will "TRY" to make a video of what I found that Is making It lock up. I will post my video as soon as I can.

I think this sort of video will be incredibly helpful for many. If there's a genuine issue, it'll be good to know that there is a way we can make it work.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:15 pm 
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rline wrote:
sear70 wrote:
drswirly wrote:
My 2x3x4 arrived this morning, and unfortunately I don't think I've yet managed to get an end 2x3 face to turn. Something inside seems to be blocking both end faces from turning, and so currently it's just an amusingly-shaped 2x2x3, which is a little disappointing. Does someone wise have a fix for this?


I have another one on the way to fix It. I will "TRY" to make a video of what I found that Is making It lock up. I will post my video as soon as I can.

I think this sort of video will be incredibly helpful for many. If there's a genuine issue, it'll be good to know that there is a way we can make it work.


It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:17 pm 
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sear70 wrote:
It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.


Yeah but I don't want to, nor should I have to, pay for two mf8 products just to get one working one. I bought this product with hesitation because of the trouble mf8 products seem to be having lately. It's not good for mf8 to be releasing puzzles which have these issues.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:27 pm 
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sear70 wrote:
...It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.
This is really surprising. If it is such an obvious problem, I wonder why mf8 has not fixed it during the testing phase.
On the other hand, my Garret version 1 needs careful turning, but I'm not aware of any serious locking.
Can it be that some mf8 2x3x4 are OK? (Gus reported that he has no serious problems.) sear70, do you say that your fix is necessary or is it an optimization?
I'm really curious to compare the mf8 puzzle with the two I have got (Garret's and Traiphum's).

Regarding Traiphum's version: I have won Traiphum's 2x3x4 in an Ebay auction back in November 2010. I do not know if he has made more than one. You cannot really compare the two, because Garret's version is fully functional and Traiphum's is not. After a 90 degree turn of the 2x4 faces on Traiphum's 2x3x4, you can do a turn of the 3x4 faces, but not a wide turn of the 2x3 faces. Let a 3x4 face be F and a 2x4 face U: U (Rr)2 ((Rr)2 = Rw2) is NOT possible on Traiphum's. U B2 works, though.
This does not make Traiphum's easier to solve at all. :wink:
Both puzzles can reach the same number of configurations.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
sear70 wrote:
...It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.
This is really surprising. If it is such an obvious problem, I wonder why mf8 has not fixed it during the testing phase.
On the other hand, my Garret version 1 needs careful turning, but I'm not aware of any serious locking.
Can it be that some mf8 2x3x4 are OK? (Gus reported that he has no serious problems.) sear70, do you say that your fix is necessary or is it an optimization?


I find It necessary. I will try to make the video tomorrow to show the peices that need to be changed out, and why they need to be. It Is a verry easy misstake on the puzzle. I would like to see if i can get a few extra parts to fix the 2nd one, I have on the way a 2nd to fix the first one.


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Quote:
This is really surprising. If it is such an obvious problem, I wonder why mf8 has not fixed it during the testing phase.

This is exactly what I was alluding to above. It appears (to the casual puzzle buyer such as myself) that mf8 are just not that concerned with selling things that work properly anymore. When i started buying twisty puzzles 2 years ago, I remember thinking that I needed to get mf8 products because everyone continually said they were superior to others. Sadly, that doesn't necessarily seem to be true anymore.

Quote:
Can it be that some mf8 2x3x4 are OK? (Gus reported that he has no serious problems.)

My hunch is that Gus' probably has the same issues which a few more solves might bring up. My 3x4x5 had a number of solves before it locked up, and then the locking up was sporadic.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:47 pm 
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rline wrote:
Quote:
Can it be that some mf8 2x3x4 are OK? (Gus reported that he has no serious problems.)

My hunch is that Gus' probably has the same issues which a few more solves might bring up

I haven't received my one yet but looking at the other replies I think it might be possible that it depends on the parts used in the assembly of the puzzle whether it works fully or not -

Gus has a fully working puzzle

Sear70 needs to change one piece (?)
sear70 wrote:
It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one. But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.


Drswirly seems to need two pieces as both of his sides are locked.
drswirly wrote:
I don't think I've yet managed to get an end 2x3 face to turn.



Is it possible that the pieces are very similar and whoever was assembling the puzzles didn't realise there was a difference?


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:25 am 
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The posts in this thread sound somehow contradicting:
zamkam wrote:
…The 3x4x5 locking is very different from the one I described for the 2x3x4: that one is built into the structure, it has nothing to do with pieces getting out of alignment. The 2x3x4 locking, on the other hand, happens because the core is detached from the outer pieces but it has grooves needed for those pieces to move. When the 3x4 face does a 180 turn, the core doesn't always turn that much, so the grooves needed for the 2x4 faces get out of alignment. This doesn't affect the 2x3 faces because they're held by the inner 2x3 and don't touch the core. The problem can be fixed by gluing one (and ONLY one) of the center pieces to the core.
sear70 wrote:
…On the MF8 ver. it has one piece that Is glued in. The problem Is the same piece that Is on the opposite side that can flip and cause the lock up. Like on a 3x3 when one edge Is flipped you cannot solve It. I will try to make a video of the piece and what It Is doing.
sear70 wrote:
….It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3. .
And then:
Gus wrote:
Received mine yesterday, it turns no problem. It is not for speed cubing, but I have no lockups or pops yet. Maybe I am just lucky?
My conclusions:
- The problem is different from the (designed in) locking of the 3x4x5. (BTW, Tom's Shapeways version has exactly the same locking issue and I had never seen it as a problem.)
- Maybe it is an assembly problem, like Zzupler expressed it
Zzupler wrote:
…Is it possible that the pieces are very similar and whoever was assembling the puzzles didn't realise there was a difference?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:56 am 
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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:08 am 
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Gus wrote:
Received mine yesterday, it turns no problem. It is not for speed cubing, but I have no lockups or pops yet. Maybe I am just lucky?
Oops, mine just locked up, I can't turn the outer 2x3 layers. I'll have to take it apart to see what happened :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:12 am 
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So I watched CrazyBadCuber's review video in which he successfully locked the 2x3 faces. The 3x4 faces can lock up on the 3x4x5 because internal edges are flipped. Maybe it's the problem with the 2x3x4 as well?

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:31 am 
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I got mine a few days ago, but I only began to give it a few twists tonight. I quickly found one locked 2x3 outer layer, so I tried to fix it with the unblocking sequence for the 3x4x5 and I wound up with both 2x3 outer layers blocked. I headed to the forum and found all these comments.. I'm betting it's a misalignment issue in the core, it's not the same thing as the 3x4x5. Honestly, it happened so quickly and the problem is so obvious that I'm disgusted that it's been released like this!

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:41 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I got mine a few days ago, but I only began to give it a few twists tonight. I quickly found one locked 2x3 outer layer, so I tried to fix it with the unblocking sequence for the 3x4x5 and I wound up with both 2x3 outer layers blocked. I headed to the forum and found all these comments.. I'm betting it's a misalignment issue in the core, it's not the same thing as the 3x4x5. Honestly, it happened so quickly and the problem is so obvious that I'm disgusted that it's been released like this!

rline wrote:
It appears (to the casual puzzle buyer such as myself) that mf8 are just not that concerned with selling things that work properly anymore.

I'm really disappointed that I'm probably right about this.

Now it's not a question of whether mine will lock up when it arrives, but how soon it will happen. :(

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:54 am 
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Oooh, this is really bad news! :( :(
Gus was the only one who reported good things and now his is locked too.
And in CrazyBadCuber's video the locking happened so early.
I really hope mf8 is listening to this thread and comes up with a solution.
Once upon a time mf8 had a good reputation in puzzle making!
:?: :!: :?:

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:38 am 
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I've pulled it apart a bit and looked at the mechanism, I'm more inclined to think it's not slipping out of alignment as such, I'm pertty sure that it's a mechanism quirk. I've also successfully unbound it, but at this point I'm not exactly sure how. I think a sequence work around is possible.

EDIT: I'm currently in a position where a U2 twist (R = 2x3, U = 2x4) transitions between `both L & R outer layers being seized` to `only one side seized`. It needs the little thin slices on the `internal 3x3 edges` to be on the outer 2x3 slice positions for them to rotate. The pieces that get blocked are the l & r edges (2x2x3 corners) which need to transit `through` the internal 3x3 edges.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:49 am 
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sear70 wrote:
Konrad wrote:
sear70 wrote:
...It will be a easy fix, you just need 2 MF8 2x3x4. You will need the parts out of the 2nd one.
But It will fix the problem. Then you will have one working 2x3x4, and one that works like a 2x2x3.
This is really surprising. If it is such an obvious problem, I wonder why mf8 has not fixed it during the testing phase.
On the other hand, my Garret version 1 needs careful turning, but I'm not aware of any serious locking.
Can it be that some mf8 2x3x4 are OK? (Gus reported that he has no serious problems.) sear70, do you say that your fix is necessary or is it an optimization?


I find It necessary. I will try to make the video tomorrow to show the peices that need to be changed out, and why they need to be. It Is a verry easy misstake on the puzzle. I would like to see if i can get a few extra parts to fix the 2nd one, I have on the way a 2nd to fix the first one.


I made the video, sorry if it is not that great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMGZHtNoy3o&feature=plcp


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:51 am 
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Burgo wrote:
I've pulled it apart a bit and looked at the mechanism, I'm more inclined to think it's not slipping out of alignment as such, I'm pertty sure that it's a mechanism quirk.


Currently, that sounds plausible. After a fair bit of somewhat random fiddling, mine is now is a position where one 2x3 is unblocked. Moreover, doing a sequence of moves and undoing that sequence again leaves that face still unblocked. Any single turn of either the 2x4 or 3x4 faces leaves both ends blocked again.

I don't know enough (or anything at all, really) about the internal mechanisms to guess what's going on, and I'm a bit scared to try dismantling it!


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:41 am 
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Ooh! Progress! I found sear70's video helpful in that it showed me something of the internals of this thing. I now have a 2x3x4 with all faces turning freely. And I've managed to get it back into one-end-locked or two-ends-locked positions and back out again.

I used a version of what I've heard called the "sixer trick" - e.g., on a 3x3x3 cube, do (L^2 U^2)^3, and it swaps edges as UF<->UB and LF<->LB.

On the 2x3x4, if you do this move with the U-face a 3x4 and the L-face a 2x3, and with the L-move being two-layers deep (so that both moves turn half of the puzzle), then there are no outside middle edge pieces to be swapped, and so there is no visible change. But the hidden inside edges make that swap as on the cube.

So, I did the following. First I did B, turning a 2x4 face 90 degrees. Then the sixer trick move as above. (And then undid that B, of course.) The result of this is to swap the hidden edges as LB<->UF and LF<->UB.

This allows you to get the blocking pieces back to the right part of the puzzle, and is a sequence which doesn't spoil your current solved state.

(It is also possible to detect which outside hidden edges need to move, as trying to turn the 2x3 faces shows this up by how much it does/doesn't want to turn. If only one outside hidden edge is a blocking piece, then you need to make sure you don't swap a good outside hidden edge with a bad inside hidden edge. I think that by stretching the puzzle a bit I can see the difference, but if not then remembering which is the bad one from the last sixer trick, you can just do a second sixer trick.)


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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:20 pm 
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After seeing the video it does look like a mechanism quirk. Can someone take theirs apart and photograph the mechanism?

It seems to me that the puzzle uses a similar mechanism to my version 2. On the version 1, it would be impossible for the puzzle to lock up like the mass produced ones are, since the parts are held on using tabs.

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 Post subject: Re: mf8 Full Function 2x3x4 Cube - mass produced and release
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Garrett wrote:
After seeing the video it does look like a mechanism quirk. Can someone take theirs apart and photograph the mechanism?

It seems to me that the puzzle uses a similar mechanism to my version 2. On the version 1, it would be impossible for the puzzle to lock up like the mass produced ones are, since the parts are held on using tabs.


I should be getting my other one today and I am going to show all the parts as I put it together.


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