Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:43 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
3x3 Mixup Plus Solution Outline *** Revised July 11, 2012 ***
1. Restore edges and centres, ignoring inner edge pieces and colours (i.e. restore to generally cubic form).
2. Place centres in correct positions.
3. Do a test solve of the 3x3, ignoring inner edges, to check for a single flipped edge (at start of last layer) or swapped opposite or adjacent edge parity (end of last layer). If parity is found, apply parity correction algorithm.
4. Flip inner edge pieces using the algorithm.
5. Pair up inner edge pieces with edges using a combination of 45° E-layer turns and R2/L2.
6. Place centres in correct positions, if necessary.
7. Solve the 3x3.

3x3 Mixup Plus Tutorial Video

The 3x3 Mixup Plus from WitEden looks deceptively simple! But then there are cases like this:
Attachment:
Mixup-swapped-inners-composite.png
Mixup-swapped-inners-composite.png [ 165.02 KiB | Viewed 10656 times ]


Getting it back to cubic form is an important step:

Attachment:
Mixup-back-to-cubic_sm.png
Mixup-back-to-cubic_sm.png [ 301.98 KiB | Viewed 10560 times ]


Once the mixup plus is back to cubic form and all inner pieces are in place, a combination of 45° E-layer turns and R2/L2 can be used to pair up the inner pieces with their matching corners.

The Mixup Plus has interesting "parity" issues in the last layer that we don't see in 3x3 cubes:
Attachment:
Mixup-opposite-swap-comp.png
Mixup-opposite-swap-comp.png [ 191.52 KiB | Viewed 10557 times ]


Other "parity" cases are one composite edge flipped and two opposite composite edges swapped. It was *very* difficult to see past all the usual causes of last layer "parity" (which, of course, don't occur on the 3x3). These new "parity" cases all occur because the Mixup Plus has 45° E and M-layer turns. I believe it is correct to call them parity, but I welcome other opinions.

I welcome your ideas, analysis and strategies for this wonderful little puzzle.

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Last edited by Pete the Geek on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:23 am, edited 7 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
ETA: Solved! Thanks to Burgo for some ideas and notation.

Is anyone working on the Mixup Plus? This has been a blast. One final challenge this puzzle presents is a last layer parity, either adjacent or opposite swapped edges:
Attachment:
Mixup-opposite-swap-comp.png
Mixup-opposite-swap-comp.png [ 191.52 KiB | Viewed 10409 times ]


After many days of trying... solved!
Attachment:
Mixup-solved-composite_sm.png
Mixup-solved-composite_sm.png [ 136.02 KiB | Viewed 10409 times ]

The solution outline in my last post stands. The probability of getting parity cases is very high (I believe it is 0.5 for the swapped edges and 0.5 for the flipped edge) and the 3x3 must be solved again after fixing each case. The Mixup Plus turns very well, so it remains a pleasant experience.

I will write up a more detailed solution with particular emphasis on ideas for getting from the scramble to cubic. I don't know how to make spoiler tags, so if you would like the specifics of fixing the two parity cases, send a PM.

Now I look forward to the 4-layer Mixup Plus! :mrgreen:

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Pete the Geek, hi Burgo ;)

I had read here, but I don't understand. Perhaps I must disassemble the cube to explore sequences. :oops:
Is there a simulator ?
In my opinion the Witeden Mixup Plus 1 is very hard (not so hard as crazy tetrahedron uranus :lol: ). Perhaps I 'm to stupid.

Notation: My idea
The same notation like the Bermuda Cubes.
Examples
E+ like E but instead 90° 45 °
M- like M' but instead 90° 45 °
M' M- turns 135 degrees.

Main direction clockwise.
Other direction ' anticlockwise.
Letters and direction like wca notation.

The + or the - belong only to the prefix letter.
Is this ok ? Or better suggestions.

Cheers,

Andrea

PS ( I cannot solve this Mixup cube. I 'm able to give one face the correct shape. Make the cubic shape isn't possible for me)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea & Pete,

I received my Mixup Plus cube today and I have made an exploratory solve tonight. The reason I sent a PM to Pete with some ideas was that I didn't have the full Mixup Plus cube yet, I only had a Standard Mixup. I will write the main part of the `Inner Edge cycle` for now and I can fill in some more details over the weekend (this is the new part different to the Standard Mixup cube):
A pure 3cycle of inner edges can be made with:
LB>FL>FR [(E- L2 E+ L2) y' (E+ R2 E- R2)] this does the trick, but to make it pure you can add [y Z (M' U2 M U2)+(M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2)]
To flip the inner edges you can use the same sequence with a setup that includes an E+ or- and a 90*twist to flip by replacing out 2 at a time: I haven't thought of a good way to express it yet, but that might be a good hint for now.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo, hi Pete,

thanks for your sequence. I found :
M- U2 M+
M2 S M2 S'
M- U2 M+

M-

This exchanges 2x2 centers. Add M2 S M2 S' then you get a center 3 cycle.


(M' R M R') x 5 turns 2 centers 90 °.
Bring one outer corner pierce in the center position. It's possible to turn it 90 ° it the other is a real centerpiece.


I will try build basic sequences from Rubiks Cube to solve it with reduction.

(R E)*4 swaps 4 center-blocks ( one in upper layer)

S+ (R E)*4 U' (E' R') x4 S- swaps one edge block and 2 center-edges.


M- (R U R' U)*5 M+ turns one outer-eddge 180 degrees.

I have no idea to solve the parity ( exchange 2 edge-blocks, 4th picture in first posting).

One idea to solve centers is, bring the center-blocks ( center and 2 center-edges) to the edge place and make flipping sequences ( R E) *4.
Combined with setup moves. (method like rex cube, or crazy cube mercury) This is much easier than 3 cycles.
I cannot bring the puzzle in cubeshape. I reassembled the mixup plus to find sequences.

Burgo: I tried your sequence. In the second part I made a mistake. The cube was scrambled, but the cube shape was ok. I solved it with my "rex cube like" method. Perhaps it's possible to solve the shape with this easy method.

Cheers,
Andrea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

I think a good method for the Mixup Plus will be to:
1. Solve the Standard Mixup cube (to remove 2edge/2corner parity and make majority cube shape)
2. Flip incorrect inner edges (to complete cubic shape) taking into account not to change parity
Flip UL & FL: S+ R’ [E- L2 E+ L2 E+ F2 E-] R S-
3. Pair Inner Edges to Outer Edges (completing reduction to a Rubiks Cube)
LB>FL>FR [(E- L2 E+ L2) y' (E+ R2 E- R2)] or in the solve it looks like: [E- L2 E+ L2 E+ F2 E-]
4. Solve Rubiks Cube

The 2 edges swapped parity is in the slice layers (it can be received as 2 corners needing swapping too). It is resolved by making an E+ or - twist and resolving. On the Standard Mixup I resolve it by making this sequence and resolving:

[(RUR’)E-(RU’R’)E-] and repeat 4 1/2 times (until the E layer is correct).
On the Mixup Plus I would still do this but it smashes the inner edges so it can be done in an early stage in the solve.

My approach for the Standard Mixup has been to get edges (and centres) out of the way first, using an Edges First method:
1. Solve the white cross
2. Solve the E Layer by exchanging out with the U layer using EPS (variants of R’LRL’). To do a 90* orientation of a single edge you can place it in the position of a 3x3x3 centre and do a face twist, if the cube is cramped:
Place it temporarily in the R centre and perform RU' RU RU RU' R'U' R2 (eg UR>R centre= E- (R’LRL’) E+ then RU' RU RU RU' R'U' R2 then return it).
To do a 180* single edge orientation (to flip the edge in FU): M- [(R U R' U)X5] M+
3. LL edges = FURU’R’F’ to orientate and Sune to permute. You can place the U layer Centre piece by storing it in FR with R’LRL’ then M+ setup and R’LRL’. A single orientated edge can be dealt with as above^^ in step 2.
4. My corners last (edges first) method is on my You Tube.
5. Parity would be solved with an E+ turn and resolving (I'm not sure of an efficient way to spot the Parity earlier).

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

thank you for your detailed posting. I must spend some time to try it.
But first I must think about the parity of exchange 2 edges.

I don't own a regular mixup-cube. But I can ignore the edge-centers.

Parity: an E+ or E- turn causes an odd number of regular center pieces and an odd number of edges. The sum is even.

The E- exchanges regular centers with edges.
In the picture 2 edges are exchanged. It's possible to bring the edges to center-positions.
So it's equivalent to exchange 2 centers.
I don't find sequences to exchange 2 centers. I only found sequences to exchange 3 centers. I tried it with numbers on paper. Yes it works.
To exchange 2 centers, or 2 edges you need an E+ and
5 3-cycles.

5 3-cycles with setup-moves. Oh my god. It must possible to find a sequence to solve the parity easier.
( Example 4x4x4 cube easiest parity solution (U2 r) x 5 U2 )
This situation is equivalent with exchanging 2 corners, so it's not possible to recognize it before solving corners and edges.

Cheers,
Andrea




Code:
Mixup Cube
Look on the E layer. Numbers to Centers/edges
1 2 3          4 1 2
4   5   -> E'  6   3
6 7 8          7 8 5

Do a 3 cycle

1 6 2
4   3
7 8 5

4 more 3 cycles

1 8 2    1 7 2    1 7 5    1 7 3
4   3    4   8    4   8    4   5
6 7 5    6 3 5    6 2 3    6 2 8

Result: 2 exchanged corners or centers



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

I edited my post above to include a shorter sequence that I knew I would find, I am happy with the method now I think.

I have used that parity fix for the standard mixup for quite some time. If you apply it to exchange 2 edges (on the standard Mixup Cube) edges on UF & UR: [(RUR’)E-(RU’R’)E-] and repeat 4 1/2 times (until the E layer is correct) and then apply U2 [RU'R'U2RU'R' (a standard F2L)] U' then orientate 3 corners in place, the cube is solved.

Andrea wrote:
It must possible to find a sequence to solve the parity easier.
You are correct, the parity can exist in 3 forms: 2 corners swapped, 2 edges swapped or 2 centres swapped. As you know, you can't exchange 2 centres because they are in a 3cycle like edges on the Rubiks cube.

I don't think the parity fix is too bad, especially on the Mixup Plus because I scramble the cube while flipping inner edges and reducing edges anyway. I think it will involve a lot of exchanges because the parity is in the twist of a slice layer, this is a lot of pieces to exchange out. Although I look forward to seeing what you (or others) come up with :).

Have fun, this Cube reminds me a lot of solving Eitan's Master Curvy Copter for some reason..
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

I found a better parity fix method:

the sequence A is:
E+ R E- L
U2 S2 U2 S2
L' E+ R' E-
parity sequence:
A y2 A R2 E2 R2 E+

complete sequence:
E+ R E- L U2 S2 U2 S2 L' E+ R' E- y2
E+ R E- L U2 S2 U2 S2 L' E+ R' E- R2 E2 R2 E+


This exchanges opposite 2 centers.

With an easy 3 cycle of centers you can transform it to exchange up and front center.

EDIT [ put the wrong 2 centers to right and left then
M- U2 M+ M2 E' M2 E M- U2 M+ ]
After this ( wrong centers top and front ) M- (R2 U2) x3 M+
Then you had exchanged the right/front and right/back edge.
Perhaps not the best solution, but my solution.
The idea behind this is : make 2x2 double permutations between an edge and a center.

I found it with the cube and paper:
(I used the number 5, too. Because even numbers shows a edge)
Code:
1 2 3            8 2 3          9 1 6         2 1 6                 
4 5 6   => A =>  4 5 7 => y2 => 7 5 4 => A => 7 5 3 
7 8 9            6 1 9          3 2 8         4 9 8




Cheers,
Andrea


Last edited by Andrea on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,
I get the cubic shape exclude the center-edges.
How do you flip the center-edges ? ( the pieces adjacent the centers)
Perhaps this puzzle is not a beginner cube.


Cheers,

Andrea

(edit) I solved the Standard Mixup Cube and flipped all center-edges.
Now I must permute the 24 center-edges.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
Andrea, I really want to make a video about restoring to cubic form, but I just don't have the time for the next 5 days.

The centre edges are used in pairs. They must both point in different directions. If they point toward each other, they form an edge. If they point away they form a centre. If they point in the same direction, it is broken and must be paired with another broken one to make either an edge or a centre. To pair broken centre edges, I use the U layer. They can be joined in the U layer using 90° turns. Then move them to an edge with a 45° S turn (S+ or S- using Andrea's notation). They can be transferred to the E layer edge using standard edge swaps. (I put the new edge on UF and then use R U' R' to swap it in).

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Last edited by Pete the Geek on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Thank you for your help and advices, Pete and Burgo,

I solved my Witeden Mixup Plus Cube ! :D :scrambled:


I had a similar idea. I turned the edge 90 ° and replaced the block with an other block. The Notation is developed by me ( look Bermuda thread)
In last step I flip edges after M-.

I wil try different solutions. This is a very interesting puzzle.

Perhaps you or Burgo or I found more sequences and solution ways.

Pete the Geek wrote:
I really want to make a video about restoring to cubic form, but I just don't have the time for the next 5 days.


Nice idea. I 'm curious.


Cheers,
Andrea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
Andrea wrote:
Thank you for your help and advices, Pete and Burgo,

I solved my Witeden Mixup Plus Cube ! :D :scrambled:

Congratulations, Andrea! I edited my post about the notation. It has been very interesting seeing how the solution to this puzzle is implemented and documented by you and Burgo. I found it very difficult to describe and have many pages of notes that are just words and drawings.

It is a fun puzzle and I already ordered the 4x4x4 Mixup Plus!

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
:D


Last edited by Andrea on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
I made a YouTube tutorial for the Mixup Plus. In the end I couldn’t help myself, it was such a fun cube. I hope you like it:

http://youtu.be/PdCVazEZtg8

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
:D


Last edited by Andrea on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Andrea wrote:
Hello friends,

Thank you for your video, Burgo. Interesting parity solution.


I changed all my sequences for the Witeden Mixup Plus, incl. parity sequence.

Much fun with this solution ideas.

Cheers,
Andrea

:shock:
You guys are unbelievable!
One day I would like to be able to develop my own solutions - all I can do is apply knowledge from one type of cube to others.

Maybe you could post a video someday on how you approach a new puzzle. I have no idea where to start - once I have scrambled it then I'm stuck!

I am in awe at your tremendous skills!! :shock:

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Kevin,

This is getting a little off topic, but I really want to answer your question a bit:
Take a look at Brandon's YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/bmenrigh/vi ... w=0&page=1
If you're not subscribed, you should be. He makes excellent explanations of the `thinking behind` developing commutators. Particularly have a look at `how to solve twisty puzzles (using Gelatinbrain's 1.4.14 as an example)` and `Understanding basic commutators and how they work`. Grab a cup of coffee first, they're long, but worth every minute. I wouldn't be tempted to lean on commutators too hard for simpler puzzles, but for more complex puzzles they become very useful. In fact they are so adaptable that it almost feels like cheating sometimes.

I also like to scramble puzzles to begin with, it really gives me a feel for how much I can build intuitively, you might surprise yourself how far you can get with block building, etc. Then often I will turn to the solved half of the puzzle to try out a few things. A good example of where this is useful is when I first solved the Teraminx, you can put half the puzzle together with relative ease, then you can use the solved half to try out a few `more pure` sequences. The Earth Megaminx in my avatar is an example of this (plus I thought it looked cool- like half of the cube has been smashed), but it is also a reminder to me of how far I got with that puzzle on the first solving attempt with just block building and no algos at all.

Of course, everyone has different types of intellegences, and in the end you will develop your own way, but you are adapting sequences to different cubes and that is a long way toward your goal.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I got my Witeden 3x3x3 Plus last Saturday. It looks like a very nice puzzle. :D
I have not yet spent much time with it. I started by revisiting the Standard Mini (I have got one fully assembled from Mike Armbrust. I do not think that there is a mass-produced Mixup Standard.) I believe that the Plus is not that hard if you know how to solve the Standard. How do others judge the additional Plus challenge?

Somebody asked me in a PM how both compare.
I had not a detailed look at the many posts here, because it seems that everything is here for a complete solution - or even many different approaches. :wink:
Anyway, my reply is of general nature and nothing private in it, so I want to share it:
Quote:
Konrad wrote:
Hi xxx,

how do the Standard Mixup (like Mike Armbrust's Mini) and the Mixup Plus compare?
The Witeden 3x3x3 Mixup Plus has additional pieces (I would call them "inner edges" or "X-centres"). Therefore the "Plus" provides an additional challenge.
You may have seen this thread viewtopic.php?f=8&p=284118#p284118 ?

When you solve the Mixup Plus like the Mixup Standard, the outer pieces only are solved.
The inner edges can be completely mixed up, even flipped.

A good strategy will be solving the Standard first.
I have applied little additional stickers on the inner edges of the Mixup Plus to see how they move. This makes it easier to find useful move sequences.

Good luck

Konrad


EDIT: Here is a pretty obvious while very long pure 3-cycle for inner edges:
Notation M- is a counterclockwise 45 degree turn of the M layer.
It was defined by Andrea for the Bermuda Cubes.
The rest is WCA. Please, have in mind that M is the slice layer between L and R and the turning direction is like L. (which I find counter intuitive; I would prefer to view it from the R face)
Inner edges move FD -> UB -> BU
(The first letter denotes the face on which the inner edge is located. UB is on the U face, BU on the same 3x3 edge but on the B face. This will remind Burgo of his Crazy Saturn inner edge circles :wink: )

M- U2 M+ x' [(M' U)*3 (U M)*3 U2] x M- U2 M+ x' [(M' U)x3 (U M)x3] x
A [3,12] commutator.

A bit of history: The (M' U)x3 (U M)x3 U2 is a classical sequence on a Standard Rubik's Cube for flipping two opposite edges.
I remember to have seen it first in an article in 1980. It goes back to one of the Rubik's Cube celebrities of that ancient times :lol: I'm not sure, though, if it was Christoph Bandelow or David Singmaster or somebody else.

Naturally, a strategy where you reduce the Mixup Plus to a Standard 3x3x3 first will allow for much easier impure 3-cycles of inner edges.

Burgo, I read your post above and I find it quite interesting that you always scramble a new puzzle first.
This is quite an adventure I could not dare. :shock:
I try to understand as much as possible and develop some move sequences on a solved cube first.
Gelatinbrain or other simulating programs help here a lot.
I guess, I could never have solved a puzzle like the Pentultimate or the Multi Dodecahedron by starting with a scrambled puzzle.
I admire very much the speed you became such a solution crack within less than two years! :D :D

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
.


Last edited by Andrea on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Burgo wrote:
Take a look at Brandon's YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/bmenrigh/vi ... w=0&page=1
If you're not subscribed, you should be. He makes excellent explanations of the `thinking behind` developing commutators. Particularly have a look at `how to solve twisty puzzles (using Gelatinbrain's 1.4.14 as an example)` and `Understanding basic commutators and how they work`.

:shock: :shock:

This is an absolutely awesome resource! Thanks for showing this to me! What a brain you guys have! Hopefully I will be able to emulate this eventually.

I really have to buy the series of Mixup cubes to try and solve as well as to blog about! Unfortunately I have spent a fortune on puzzles this month so have to wait!

For an idea of my little splurge see my recent blog post:
http://www.puzzlemad.co.uk/2012/06/bountiful-bonanza-of-beautiful-and.html
:shock: :shock:

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I want to make a personal remark first: Some friends may have wondered why I do not post so often anymore.
The short answer: I love puzzles, but I love my wife more. :lol: Seriously speaking, puzzles can become an addiction and as you know, addicts should be `off the booze`. So I do read and post far less on the forum than I used to do. Yes, Rubik's like puzzles are part of my life since the year my first daughter was born, meaning half of my lifetime, and they will remain part of my life. But I have yet to teach myself that other parts are even more important. :wink:

Now to the Mixup Plus:

After I had solved the Mixup Plus several times, I looked at this interesting thread and made a few observations:

1. Everybody says it is a fun cube and I completely agree. :D It is one of those puzzles that are just right, not easy and not too hard. Many different approaches to the solution are possible. I like these cubes based on a Rubik's Cube (which will remain forever the puzzle of my life!), but add a considerable challenge. Other good examples are the Crazy series, the Latch Cube or the Bermudas.

2. Not many different persons have posted here. Why is that? OK, mail travels obviously slower to Germany or Australia than to other privileged regions of the world. A lot more was posted here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23513
Pete the Geek started this thread on May 31 and Andrea wrote the first response 3 weeks later.

3. The difficulty of this puzzle should not be underestimated. Having solved the Standard Mixup first, helps a lot. I think Andrea said this: The Mixup Plus is not a beginners cube. On the other hand: You can start by viewing the Mixup Plus as a Standard Mixup and ignore the additional inner edges (or X-centres if you will; I prefer the term `inner edges` because they are part of an edge group when the cube is reduced to a 3x3). It helps too, if you are familiar with a Super 3x3x3 and know sequences that just turn the centres pure.

4. Burgo is incredible! :o :o He could even give hints while he had not seen the cube at all. He seems to be extremely gifted for solving puzzles. Congratulations Burgo and take care (I'm referring to my starting remark :lol: :lol: )!

Here is my outline for the Mixup Plus:
1. Solve the Standard Mixup including "parity" handling.
2. Flip inner edges and group them with outer edges. (Flipping them is the harder part. Repositioning works completely intuitive.)
3. solve the 3x3x3

A bit more details how I do step 1:

a. place centres intuitively.
b. flip outer edges. When I first solved the Standard a year ago, I used 3x3 pure centre rotation like M' E' M U M' E M U' (rotates the L centre 90° clockwise and the U centre 90° counterclockwise). Shorter is M- U M U2 M- U M flipping the two opposite edges at UF and UB.
c. Solve the 3x3 partially, check if one edge has to be flipped by 180°. If yes, I use M- M' E' M U2 M' E M U2 M+ to flip edge UF. (On a Super 3x3x3 M' E' M U2 M' E M U2 rotates two centres. The second rotation is invisible here. If you need ever a pure 180° rotation of one centre, you can use( L' R' U2 L R U' )X2 which is shorter than the 20 move sequence [(R U R' U)X5]
Check for permutation "parity" and resolve it, if needed. Burgo has given a good explanation and I use something pretty identical to his [(RUR’)E-(RU’R’)E-] and repeat 4 1/2 times (until the E layer is correct).
This is easy to understand and easy to memorize. I do not care about optimal "parity" handling at this time, because I will mix up the cube anyway in step 2.

For step 2, I recommend Burgo's explanation and his video.

EDIT: I should have added here, that I do not want to express by this last statement anything bad about Andrea's posts and videos.
It just happens, that I did not have the time to study the details of Andrea's hints and I find Burgo's short, precise and completely sufficient.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Last edited by Konrad on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
:D


Last edited by Andrea on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Andrea wrote:
you answer only to Burgo's video and ignore my videos ?
Ok. I think this video explains all solution steps. It's not so bad.
I programed a simulator for this forum and the users. Wat's wrong ?
What errors are in the video ? No response to my solution ideas and videos. :cry:
I spend many hours time for this videos. OmG experts.
Ok I wil make a rest here.
Bye

Dear Andrea, there is no reason to be angry.
As I explained above, I can dedicate not so much time to puzzles. And believe me, it took me some time solving the Mixup Plus yesterday. I messed it up several times before I could complete my first solve.
Therefore, I had a quick look only on your videos. I have seen a little part only (where you flip two inner edges. Sorry to say this, but I found Burgo's explanation clearer. You are referring to some other part, which I have not seen) and, honestly, I cannot judge the rest of your videos. May others do this and write about their opinion.
I'm pretty sure that they are good, though :), but I cannot judge something I have not seen.

I prefer to find my own solutions and do not study many different variants of others, usually.

Regarding your simulator program:
Konrad April 7th wrote:
Hi Andrea,

thank you for sharing this program with us.
Please, calm down and do not be angry without any real reason. Please, take my apologies if you felt neglected or offended.

EDIT2: I deleted my first EDIT afterwards again, because my intention is to calm down things.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Last edited by Konrad on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:41 am, edited 7 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Andrea wrote:
you answer only to Burgo's video and ignore my videos ?
...
What errors are in the video ? No response to my solution ideas and videos. :cry:
I spend many hours time for this videos. OmG experts.
Ok I wil make a rest here.
Bye

Don't be upset Andrea, I am always pleased to see your videos - they are well made and always solve a problem! I have not commented specifically because I don't yet have a Mixup cube - I suspect that this thread is relatively quiet because very few people have these cubes so far.

I have said in a PM to Burgo that I think that he, Konrad, Pete and you Andrea are sort of cube savants. I know that I, after reading your threads and watching your videos am often stunned into silence for a while. I have said before that I long for your skills!!

Do keep up with the videos and the simulators - I am sure I speak for all of us when I say they are greatly appreciated!

Kevin

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:49 pm
Location: New Jersey
Hi guys,

I received my mixup plus a couple days ago and worked out my own solution, so I can finally weigh-in here. I believe my method has some differences from the outlines already posted here, and I think my parity algs may be different (not necessarily better). Instead of trying to compare directly with what has already been posted, here's my full outline with all algs:

1. Restore to cubic shape...
1a. Return all 6 centers to face-center locations: S- (M+ E- M- U' M+ E+ M- U) S+ (moves UF to U)
1b. Twist all incorrectly oriented edges: M+ E- M- U' M+ E+ M- (fixes UL and FR) and M+ E R E' M- (fixes UF)
1c. Flip all incorrectly oriented center-edges: E+ (M+ F2 M- B M+ F2 M- B') E- (flips UB-U and FR-R)

2. Pair all center-edges with their edges: M- U2 M+ (swaps UB-U with FD-F)

3. Permute centers: M- U2 M+ (swaps U with F, but make sure UB-U and FD-F are the same color)

4. Solve reduced 3x3x3

5. Fix parities at the very end as necessary...
5a. Swap two edges: ((Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') E+ (Rw E' S+ U' S- E Rw') E+) x4 E+ (imperfectly swap UF with FR) or (Rw E' S+ U2 S- E Rw' E+) x9 Rw U2 Rw' (perfect swap UL with FR)
5b. Flip one edge: M- (F E F2 E2 F U F' E2 F2 E' F' U') M+ (flips UR)

Hopefully I got all the notation correct for this...

EDIT: Takes me about 6 minutes to solve with both parities.


Last edited by DKwan on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Thanks to everyone for the plethora of methods that are coming in, which just goes to show how interesting and accessible this cube is! I really enjoyed Andrea's videos, I am always impressed with the fresh approach she brings. I think this approach is similar to how Pete is treating the puzzle from what I can gather.

Andrea, I am sure Konrad had no intention to overlook you. Just be aware that it might seem quiet and that nobody is looking, but actually people are very interested: Pete had to make consecutive posts and wait weeks until this thread started moving. Consider that Konrad may have looked at the thread when only my video was there, and come back to post, at which time he may have noticed that you had made one too (not every time we read and thoroughly examine every post). I have been thinking about your approach for a while and considering my response. It is the details of the method that I enjoyed, how you linked things elegantly.

Thanks for all of the additional sequences Konrad and Dan. I look forward to trying everything, and I am also looking forward to Pete's video to see his approach.

I will say one thing about ergonomics and sequences with this puzzle.. I don't really like the combination of having an M- twisted with R & U turns, or the sequence (M' U)X3 U (M U)X3 U' (with an M- setup), I find them awkward because it's easy for the M slice to `float` a bit with the R turns, or you have to concentrate on accuracy with your M turns because there are 8 positions instead of 4. I just find it easier to manage an S+ turn with R and U turns and that's why I favoured those. I'm curious as to what other people think about this?

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
:D


Last edited by Andrea on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I feel a bit guilty. Not because of neglecting Andrea, but because I'm breaking my rules for puzzle time and am neglecting my wife. Right now, I should work in the garden :lol:
Burgo is right, Andrea, I had no intention to overlook you, just not the time to look at everything.
When I read this thread after my first solution in detail, I came first across Burgo's solution outline and then across his video.
I'm not so much the video type myself, I prefer written text plus pictures.
Because I found Burgo's outline and sequences good to understand, I recommended it.
I bet, yours is similar intuitive and good and I'll try hard to find the time to look at it in detail, maybe on next weekend.
I would find it appropriate that you admit having overreacted a bit and, please, accept that there was no bad intention on my side.

BTW, I have not thanked Pete for starting this thread. Here it is: Thank you Pete!!! Probably you solved it ahead of us all. What a great little puzzle :D

Because DKwan has a different approach for parity resolution, especially the edge swap parity, I got curious and had a look at his sequence.
Thanks DKwan! I have not yet read any single sentence in this thread, so, not to overlook anybody, let me tank everybody who has contributed to this thread.

DKwan, I think you have updated it since your first post.
Yesterday evening I copied
Quote:
5a. Swap two edges: ((Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') E+ (Rw E' S+ U' S- E Rw') E+) x4 (swaps UF with FR)
now it reads
DKwan wrote:
Hi guys,...5a. Swap two edges: ((Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') E+ (Rw E' S+ U' S- E Rw') E+) x4 E+ (imperfectly swap UF with FR) or (Rw E' S+ U2 S- E Rw' E+) x8 Rw U2 Rw' (perfect swap UL with FR)
I tried ((Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') E+ (Rw E' S+ U' S- E Rw') E+) x4 and recognized a missing E+ at the very end. Now you say it is an imperfect swap? I did it on a solved cube and found it to be a pure swap.
Why do you call it `imperfectly`?

I find it very interesting to learn how you came up with this sequence.
I mean, I just performed 16x4 moves and fail to understand so far, WHY it works.
Maybe it teaches us something, if you can elaborate a bit, how you found this sequence?

EDIT: I have deleted a sentence above, that was obviously misunderstood. Obviously, I'm not really good making jokes in foreign language. :wink:

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Last edited by Konrad on Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Konrad wrote:
I find it very interesting to learn how you came up with this sequence.
I mean, I just performed 16x4 moves and fail to understand so far, WHY it works.
Maybe it teaches us something, if you can elaborate a bit, how you found this sequence?
Yes, good question Konrad, I had a look at it this afternoon too. Normally when a sequence is repeated 4 times you can see what is happening on one application and understand why it is repeated 4 times, but I couldn't see easily, I resigned to spend more time on reverse engineering later. It appears to cycle an even amount of times, but the E+ at the end is the give-away isn't it, that is where the parity changes. Because I didn't fully understand it I was quite slow performing it, but you must fly through it to make a complete solve in 6 mins!

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:49 pm
Location: New Jersey
Konrad wrote:
I tried ((Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') E+ (Rw E' S+ U' S- E Rw') E+) x4 and recognized a missing E+ at the very end. Now you say it is an imperfect swap? I did it on a solved cube and found it to be a pure swap.
Why do you call it `imperfectly`


My apologies, I edited my post a couple of times, once to correct the missing turn at the end. You will notice why I call that one "imperfect" if you make an R turn or a U turn before applying the alg. It actually only swaps 2 of the 3 pieces in the edge-group, but since the 3rd piece is the same color on a solved-cube, it appears to be a "perfect" swap. You can use this alg to swap opposite edges of the last face as long as you set it up such that both edges have the shared color on the F face, otherwise you will run into this problem. For completeness-sake, I had also edited my post to include a version of the parity alg which does appear to be "perfect" (which btw I just edited to be x9, not x8). For practical application though, the first x4 alg is sufficient.

I should also probably note that the 2nd alg also affects the edge-flip parity at the same time, so if you notice that you have both parities, the second alg is better. If you only have the edge swap parity, the first one is better.

Konrad wrote:
I find it very interesting to learn how you came up with this sequence.
I mean, I just performed 16x4 moves and fail to understand so far, WHY it works.
Maybe it teaches us something, if you can elaborate a bit, how you found this sequence?


I based it on the same idea as the alg you would use on a "standard" mixup cube [(RUR’)E-(RU’R’)E-]x4.5. In that alg, the moves (RUR') removes 1/8th of the E slice layer (one piece) and then you continue repeating this while rotating the E slice around to shift every piece 1/8th over. In my alg, the moves (Rw E' S+ U S- E Rw') do the same thing, except 1/8th is now 2 pieces (harder to isolate), which is why it takes so many moves. It essentially does a 9-cycle of 2-piece groups, 8 pairs in the E slice and the 9th pair at the UF edge.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi puzzle friends,

an user asked me per PM to reinsert the link to my tutorial video. Ok I do this. It's a blockbuilding and reduction method.
It's an easy solution with 3 very easy basic sequences.

1) M- U2 M+ exchanges 2 centers
2) M- U' R U M+ exchanges a block extended center with an edge
3) E+ S' U S E- turns one edge 90 degrees.

The parity is a version of 1)
(M+ U2 M- E- ) x 9

(edit)
Exchanging 2 extended centers:
Make M- and then flip the "new" edge , same sequence on Rubik's Cube.
U' R U F R2 U'
and redo M- with M+.


The tutorial has 4 parts
part 1 basic moves and scrambling the mixup plus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cEuwjs2ytc&feature=channel&list=UL

Part 2-3 solving the rest.
Part 4 shows the special case that 2 extended centers are flipped.

Much fun with this easy solution way.

Cheers,
Andrea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
I've been interested to see this discussion develop. It seems it's a very helpful thing to have previously solved the standard mixup. So what solving advice for an approach would people offer to someone who has never seen any kind of mixup? I'm skimming solution algorithms trying not to look at them and I'm seeing a lot of new strange symbols which worries me a little. I've ordered the 333 but it hasn't got here yet.

_________________
Youtube Twisty Puzzling
Blogger Twisty Puzzling - Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties
Tutorials: Pitcher Octo-Star Cube | GERANIUM | Wheel of Wisdom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi rline

rline wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of new strange symbols which worries me a little.



There are only two new symbols "-" and "+".
It's the same notation on Bermuda Cubes
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22386


The advantage of this notation is , that 90 degrees turns are equivalent to the Rubik's Cube notation.

a R turns 90 ° on Rubiks Cube and a R turns 90° on Mixup Plus.
a E turns the adjacent slice from "D" to the same direction.

The only different are "+" and "-"
"+" turns 45 degrees clockwise to the main direction
"-" turns 45 degrees counterclockwise to the main direction.

The symbol belong only to the last letter.
a 135 degree turn must be written as L' L- 90 45

S+ turns the slice adjacent to F 45 degrees in the direction of F
M- turns the slice adjacent to L 45 ° in the direction of L.


Cheers,
Andrea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
rline wrote:
It seems it's a very helpful thing to have previously solved the standard mixup. So what solving advice for an approach would people offer to someone who has never seen any kind of mixup?
My advice is to get as far as you can using intuitive methods. I never saw a Mixup cube and it didn't hinder my progress until I ran into a certain issue very late in the solve.

Konrad wrote:
BTW, I have not thanked Pete for starting this thread. Here it is: Thank you Pete!!! Probably you solved it ahead of us all. What a great little puzzle :D
Thanks Konrad. I solved it a couple of times with a big hint from Burgo before he even got the puzzle!!! I am humbled and awed by solvers such as Andrea and Burgo who are able to so clearly explain how to solve it.

I have been away and was not able to watch videos, so I have some catching up! I have learned so much already, much more than I ever imagined as I set out to scramble the 3x3 Mixup Plus a few weeks ago. (I didn't even know that it shape-shifted until I scrambled it!)

My 4x4 Mixup Plus has arrived in Canada, and with some very good luck I will get it tomorrow (Friday) before the Canada Day long weekend.

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Quote:
My advice is to get as far as you can using intuitive methods. I never saw a Mixup cube and it didn't hinder my progress until I ran into a certain issue very late in the solve.

Thanks Pete. What my heart wants to do is Burgle the puzzle when I get it, meaning scramble it before doing anything else like Burgo does. But my head is fighting that, and is telling me that it's much better to figure out sequences as I can on the solved puzzle. I think my heart will win this time.

_________________
Youtube Twisty Puzzling
Blogger Twisty Puzzling - Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties
Tutorials: Pitcher Octo-Star Cube | GERANIUM | Wheel of Wisdom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
I received my 4x4 Mixup Plus (I put a picture on the Mixup Plus announcement thread) and with a free evening managed to work out a solution and solve it. It is a bit different from the 3x3 Mixup Plus, a little easier in some ways and a little harder in other ways. Pairing the inner pieces with the edges is a challenge and I tried several methods. I'm curious to see what people develop. For my strategy, I stuck with my 3x3 Mixup Plus idea of restoring the puzzle to cubic form before I start pairing things.

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
I made a 4-part tutorial for the 4x4 Mixup Plus. 4x4 Mixup Plus Video Tutorial Part 1 of 4. As I post this, part 4 is still uploading, it should be done in another three hours. This is my first video tutorial. I learned a lot and will make a better tutorials in the future.

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Pete,

thank you for this video. Very interesting. I don't own a 4x4x4 Mixup. But the next order will include one.

Cheers,
Andrea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Hi Andrea,
I have now watched your videos (as you know it was a bit difficult for me to find the time this week :) ).
I admire your authentic and independent approach. Together with your outline above, it shouldn't be so hard to understand it, even for people not having played with the Standard Mixup before.
Just a little recommendation for future videos: You could cut out things like "solving the Rubik's Cube" (some videos use a kind of speed motion in such cases) and give the viewer instead a bit more time to grasp the setup situation for a move sequence. I had at the end of part2 some difficulties, because text and video seem not to match exactly.
Please, be kind to an old man! :lol:

You told me in a PM how much work it is to make such videos.
I believe this immediately! On the other hand a written tutorial with pictures may very well be more work.
I have a simple Notebook camera only, nothing suited to make acceptable video tutorials.
I'm not sure if I will ever jump at making videos. My little granddaughters are persuading me somehow, but I'm familiar with photography only. :roll: And the editing of videos!? :roll: (I remember that katsmom has told us something similar somewhen in the past and now it is all history and we see a lot of videos from her! :) )

@all readers of this thread:
I had a very pleasant exchange of PM's with Andrea and all possible misunderstandings are sorted out.
It is well understood that neither of us had ever the slightest intention to be disrespectful.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
:shock: :shock:
Wow Pete! These are superb! Thanks very much - I am one who really struggles to follow the text based solutions (except for just single algorithms to achieve a particular move) and really love video tutorials.

I am sure I am not the only one who appreciates the HUGE amount of effort that goes into making these videos. Whilst I'm at it! Thanks also to Rline and Burgo for all of theirs!! :D

_________________
Kevin
Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!! :oops:
Visit my blog: Puzzlemad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:59 pm
Location: Crestwood, IL
I just solved the 4x4 Mixup Plus and I must say it's definitely worth getting one. It's a time-consuming solve especially pairing up the inner edges to the outer ones. I got to a point where just 2 little parts of the inner edges needed to be swapped and took me some time to figure out how to swap more edges around to fix it. There has to be a better method of doing it so hopefully more will share their methods.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Marcy,

I solved my Mixup Plus 444 today, and I later watched Pete's video, nice to meet you Pete!
My method went:

1. Resolve 444shape:
Do inner edges last- I used my sequence from above, (S+ R')[E- L2 E+ L2 E+ F2 E-](R S-) and likewise found I could pair `some` 444inner-edges to 444edges as I went.
The `last 2 halves situation` I placed the 2 flipped 444inner-edges in ULf and FLu but using a slice f setup/undo: (f+ R')[E- L2 E+ L2 E+ F2 E-](R f-)
2. Pair 444inner-edges to 444edges (I used a very similar technique to Pete [E- F2 E+], but I didn't plan it out as much).
3. Once the 444inner-edges are paired to 444edges it's just a 444 cube (and as Pete said- parities are not an issue).

Actually the lack of the mixup parity makes the solution easier to find, so although, like Marcy suggests: it's time consuming, I actually don't think the solve is more complex, I actually perfer the Mixup Plus333. I find it more iconic and interesting. The 444 is worth having though, overall a nice puzzle, this is by no means supposed to be critical of the puzzle. Needs lube :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Well I have been having a great time with the mixup 3. It's been a fairly new solving experience for me, but well worth the time investment. I completely agree with this assessment:
Konrad wrote:
It is one of those puzzles that are just right, not easy and not too hard.
I didn't have a standard mixup, so I couldn't view it as one initially, so I followed Pete's advice and just tried to go where I could with it. I think I did ok. Along the way there were some helpful PM exchanges with Burgo. I made him not give me any algs or solutions, but what was helpful was finding about some of the quirks of the cube, eg. It's not possible to have 1 inner edge flipped by itself, but it is possible to have a RC edge twisted 90* by itself. That may seem quite obvious to most (it does to me now) but it wasn't initially.

My method is similar to others here; restore to cubic shape, pair inner edges with RC edge (and put centers back if needed), place edges, place corners, fix parity-

Anyway, I found some sequences I thought I'd share. They're based around ultimate solution CPS, of course. :) They use the E+ and E- instead of U and U'.

Pure 3-cycle inner edges: E- R2 E+ L2 E- R2 E+ L2. This moves FL -> RF -> BL. All pieces keep orientation.

Pure 3-cycle inner edges: E- R E+ L' E- R' E+ L. This moves BL->UL->UR. Piece BL keeps orientation; others flip.

Pure Flip 2 inner edges: (E- R E+ L' E- R' E+ L U2) x2. This flips the pieces at BL and UR.

I really like that last one because it's easy to remember and easy to perform.

_________________
Youtube Twisty Puzzling
Blogger Twisty Puzzling - Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties
Tutorials: Pitcher Octo-Star Cube | GERANIUM | Wheel of Wisdom


Last edited by rline on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Nice to see what you came up with in the end Rline!

Some nice pure Inner Edge sequences, I am interested to see how you bring it together in a method too. Maybe there is another video coming :D .
It is impressive how you manage to weave Ultimate Solution into everything!

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
Hi fellow Mixup solvers! I've fallen far behind my puzzle solving over the past week, with a training course in far away Toronto and a completely last-minute opportunity to start a ten-week online course yesterday. I've been watching videos, reading this thread (and the one on parities) and making lots of notes. My 3x3 Mixup Plus solution will now include a "test solve" of the 3x3 after restoring edges and centres but before I do anything else. The test solve is for parity and if it is seen, I will apply one of the parity fixes. I was going to make a tutorial video, but after Andrea's and Burgo's videos, I don't see anything more I could add.

3x3 Mixup Plus Solution Outline
1. Restore edges and centres, ignoring inner edge pieces and colours (i.e. restore to generally cubic form).
2. Place centres in correct positions.
3. Do a test solve of the 3x3, ignoring inner edges, to check for a single flipped edge (at start of last layer) or swapped opposite or adjacent edge parity (end of last layer). If parity is found, apply parity correction algorithm.
4. Flip inner edge pieces using the algorithm.
5. Pair up inner edge pieces with edges using a combination of 45° E-layer turns and R2/L2.
6. Place centres in correct positions, if necessary.
7. Solve the 3x3.

ETA: 3x3 Mixup Plus Tutorial

Is anyone planning to get the 3x3x4 or 4x4x3 variant of the Mixup Plus? I am intrigued by the possible differences in solutions, but I wonder if they will really present a substantial new challenge. Any thoughts?

_________________
PeteTheGeek196 on YouTube


Last edited by Pete the Geek on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:00 am
Location: Colorado
What I do for my mixup octahedron is somewhat different than how you guys are solving.

First I place centers in the center. Easy

Next I flip 8 wings at a time using a very simple move. If I have an unsolvable situation I make a very small tweak and swap 6 at a time.

Next I rotate edges to solve for shape. Again super, super easy.

Now I finally solve for color. I place the 6 centers in their correct spots using simple 45 degree and R2 moves.

I pair up the wings with their edges using the same algorithm. By doing both wings per edge in the same spot the centers do not get scrambled.

Solve like a 3x3x3.

If parity exists a simple 180 degree edge rotation is used and the wings are resolved.

I'll try posting a video.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop
My YouTube Videos
My Museum Puzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Quote:
I am interested to see how you bring it together in a method too. Maybe there is another video coming

Yep.

Mixup playlist

Mixup Part 1 - Return to Cube Shape

I should point out that my method almost certainly won't be as efficient as most others, it's definitely not a speedsolving method, and it uses terms like "corner piece series", which are from the ultimate solution. And in the parity fix, I deliberately include an extra move or two in each iteration (of the 4.5) because I want to make clear that it's just edge piece series involved (again, U.Solution).

I hope some find it helpful. :)

_________________
Youtube Twisty Puzzling
Blogger Twisty Puzzling - Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties
Tutorials: Pitcher Octo-Star Cube | GERANIUM | Wheel of Wisdom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:00 am
Location: Colorado
Hey I just noticed on a super mixup plus center rotation is important. I got the edge flip parity of two corners, an edge, and two wings needing to be flipped 180 degrees. What's strange though is the center needs to be flipped 90 degrees. Fixing the parity of course fixes the center rotation but I wonder if the opposite is true.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop
My YouTube Videos
My Museum Puzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Solving the Mixup Plus
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Mike,

The wings are irrelevant to the parity. The single flipped edge will be twisting a centre 180* which still leaves it 90* out. You can never do a swap of 2 corners, it's impossible, there is no problem with the corners when you have parity, only the edges/centres are misplaced, therefore the state of the U layer will be twisted by 90* to make a 3cycle in the corners. It's just like how (R2 U R2 U' R2) U'D (R2 U' R2 U R2) D' on a Rubiks Cube puts an extra twist into the U layer. In this situation on a normal Rubiks Cube (with a 90* twist in the U layer), edges and corners will be in a `swapped` position at the same time. If you put the parity swap into the edges on the Mixup Cube the centre would be correctly placed.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Naz, themathkid and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group