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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:19 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
rline wrote:
Somewhere further back in this thread, Burgo posted his solutions

Thanks. I tried his method. Had you solved it with this method ?
( I wrote a PM to Burgo)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Well it's taken me a while but I've finally completed video solutions for all the pentahedron planets, and the standard 3 layer and 5 layer.

There seems to have been not much interest in these crazy pentahedrons. Perhaps everyone's over crazy.

Anyway, I still wanted to let people know that I'd made them. Saturn and neptune follow a corners last approach. The other planets have two different tutorials each for most of them: a corners last approach, and an edges last approach. I'm particularly happy with the edges last videos because they only use [1,1] commutators to do the job. I find the solves more interesting as well. In the edges last approach, I reduce corners etc using simple turns and then deal with the edges using things like [LULU'] x 5. Peronally, I like it better than using the corner 3-cycles. But those corner 3-cycles are still there on the corners last methods.

Anyway, if anyone wants to take a look, or tell someone they know about them, here are the links, both for my blogger site (which have the full tutorials with text also) and also youtube playlists (which are just the videos).

Blogger
Standard 3
Standard 5
Mercury Corners Last
Mercury Edges Last
Jupiter
Venus Corners Last
Venus Edges Last
Saturn
Earth Corners Last
Earth Edges Last
Uranus
Mars Edges Last
Neptune

Standard 3
Standard 5
Mercury Corners Last
Mercury Edges Last
Jupiter
Venus Corners Last
Venus Edges Last
Saturn
Earth Corners Last
Earth Edges Last
Uranus
Mars Edges Last
Neptune

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:05 am

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Thanks, Rline for this terrific series. It looks like it was a huge undertaking and is a most impressive piece of puzzle analysis.

Maybe some day you could post how you go about analysing new puzzles to find solutions. I have the crazy cubes on their way and have solved Jupiter using existing known techniques. But I doubt that what I know already will solve the rest. I would like to solve them myself but really don't know how to start analysing new ones.

Once again thanks for a great resource, I have enjoyed it immensely and may get a few of the pents in the future.

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:39 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Crazy Puzzlers.

rline wrote:
you should try solving uranus tetrahedron first, and then ask the question. Uranus is as close to impossible as I've come across. I know Burgo and Schuma and someone else on here has solved it. You would be in a very exclusive club if you could solve it.

I knock on the door of this club.

I solved the Crazy Tet Uranus. Perhaps it was an accident.

My solution is little bit different to Burgo's solution. It's very difficult. I put the solution as PDF file attachment. Perhaps someone understand this.

Solving outer edges, inner edges and corners are relative easy.
In my solution the last step is solving the circle corners. In the PDF there is a shematic painting of permutate the triangles with a sequence.

Much terrible fun with this.

Attachment:
teturanus.pdf [519.36 KiB]

Cheers,

Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:18 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,

Solving the Crazy Tetrahedron Uranus:

I added the notation to the textfile. The key is this permutation.
A 5 cycle:

R U L Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ Uâ€˜
R U L Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ Uâ€˜

Each circle is a circle - corner. Look from top to the tip of tetrahedron.
If you turn the sequence you must turn the orange face to the top.
The picture shows where the triangles go.
piece 1 goes to piece 2 , piece 2 goes to piece 3 .... piece 5 goes to piece 1
Attachment:

permutec.png [ 11.66 KiB | Viewed 4735 times ]

Attachment:
teturanus.pdf [766.89 KiB]

PDF.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:12 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Quote:
I knock on the door of this club.

I solved the Crazy Tet Uranus. Perhaps it was an accident.

Andrea, congratulations! This is incredibly impressive. I'd say Welcome to the Club, but I'm nowhere near it.

Great work!

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:12 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,

Solving the edges and outer corners is not the difficult part.
The difficult part are the circlecorners (cc). If the tet stand on table and you look from to to the cc's you get the picture in the last posting.
I put paper on the cc's to follow the permutations.
You can divide the cc's in two groups. First step, don't look to the tip-cc.
Then you get two groups.
You can solve the group "B" with the mirrored sequence.

The permutation 5->1->2 thows that all pieces of one group are changed. In the step before the last sequence 2 pieces of one group are wrong and two pieces of tip are visual changed.
The last picture in the PDF ( screenshot from BO HU simulator) looks like a 3 cycle, but it is a 5 cycle , too.

I gues that you must only make the sequence
R U L Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ Uâ€˜
R U L Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€˜ Râ€˜ Uâ€˜ and inverse

3 or 4 times for each group to solve all circle corners. I had 4-5 solves of Crazy Tet Uranus.

Attachment:

cc-groups.png [ 15.1 KiB | Viewed 4644 times ]

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:45 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Congratulations Andrea,

I have enjoyed looking over your Uranus Tet method, I particularly liked your inner edge 3cycle. I had a look at what you were doing with the CCs and I found a pure 3cycle, albeit a very long one:
[LUB>LD>BUR]
RUL'U'R'U D L'U'RULU' y
L'U'RULU' D' RUL'U'R'
URULU'R' D UL'U'R'ULU y'
L'U'R'UL D' U'RULU'R'U'

Interesting that you solved the corners first and I solved them last.
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:04 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,
thank you for sharing your 3 cycle sequence. Perhaps this is easier to memorize the 3 cycle than a 5 cycle but the sequence is hard to memorize.
I use only my last sequence. The 5 cycle I begin with 5 > 1 > 2 >3 >4
, it's memorizable as a spiral around the tet beginning in one group and ending with the two tip-corner circles. Perhaps this is an easy method to memorize this. Now we have two methods. I don't like solve a puzzle looking to paper. So, I memorized the permutations and sequences.
Do you solve the tet without look on paper ?

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:38 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends from crazy planet,

thank you Burgo for the response to my solution.

I made a litle video obout solving. It's without sound. It's not a tutorial. because my tutorials are to bad.

Solve the Crazy Tet Uranus:

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:32 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
I hope no-one is upset by me resurrecting this topic!

Recently Rline showed on his YouTube channel how to make the whole set of Crazy pentahedra from just one of the set and the set of Crazy tetrahedra from 2 in the series. This stimulated me into a purchase and I've started on the pentahedra. I started with the standard 3 layer and was lulled into a false sense of security as it was tremendously simple to solve - took me less than 2 minutes.

I then moved to the Mercury pentahedron and after a weekend, am getting nowhere by myself!

I now have a scrambled puzzle which I find impossible to check algorithms on. So how do you guys go about this? I will need to keep disassembling my puzzle each time to check a possible algorithm! This is really not feasible!

Is it essential to use a simulator when trying a new puzzle?

I don't have access to a Windows machine so will struggle - I think Andrea's simulator (YAPS) is the only one which does these circle pents & tets and it is a windows executable. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can progress?
Can I do it on a puzzle?
Or must I get hold o a Windows box for this purpose?

Thanks!

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:22 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
I ordered them too thanks to his videos! I'm still waiting for mine to arrive though.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:47 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
I don't have access to a Windows machine so will struggle - I think Andrea's simulator (YAPS) is the only one which does these circle pents & tets and it is a windows executable. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can progress?

Hi Kevin.
My java program cube1.2 work on every operating system, but it simulates only crazy cubes.
The YAPS program simulates crazy cubes and crazy pentahedron.
It's posssible to compile the sources on every os, if QT library is avaiable.

[url]http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23496&hilit=yaps
[/url]
Download the yaps-src.zip and compile it. I tested it under linux. Perhaps it's possible to compile it with a mac.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:55 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Thanks Andrea,

I think the QT library is available on all macs but I don't know how to compile your source code on the Mac. I think I need to be part of the developer program (\$99) to be able to compile the programme.

I wonder whether it will work under WINE.

Do you plan on redoing YAPS in Java?

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:06 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Kevin,

Quote:
I think I need to be part of the developer program (\$99) to be able to compile the programme.

In past,many years ago, i owned a mac mini. It was possible to install X Code and compile source code, without paying \$99 for de developer. It's not necessary.

Quote:
Do you plan on redoing YAPS in Java?

Perhaps in far future. But not in moment.
Yaps shows puzzles schematic. My Cube1.2 java program uses an own graphics engine, this works only with planar faces.
Some puzzles need spherical faces, ( example: rex cube, bauhinia, pentahedron).
Programming is very much work.
Do you find other simulators ? By example Bu Ho's circle puzzle ?

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:07 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Bo Hu did make a simulator for the Crazy pentahedra puzzles. And it does support all the variations, I believe. But I haven't made an English webpage and clean up the code to make it work with Chrome and Firefox. There are always some inconsistency in his webpage (javascript code). So it works on IE but not on Chrome and Firefox.

 Attachments: Image 000.png [ 53.68 KiB | Viewed 3625 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:18 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
I look forward to when you have time to do it Schuma!

No one has yet said whether they consider it necessary to use a simulator to work out how to solve these.
Do you think I can solve this series (bear in mind that I'm not very bright! ) with only a puzzle to practice on or is a simulator required?

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
You don't need a simulator to solve things Kevin, but it does make life easier, then the question is.. what do you believe is the challenge of the puzzle? Instead, let me ask you.. Do you ask for all of your wooden assembly puzzles to be sent assembled or disassembled?

Cheers,
Burgo .

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:44 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Tet Uranus re visited,

Hi friends,
The hard part is solving the triangles. There is an easier way to do that:

make a commutator with my sequence makes a 2x2 swap. It's possible to swap 2 pieces with same color and 2 other pieces. First solve the outer triangles then the 'tip' triangles.

The sequence looks difficult and long buts there are a repetition of little variations of the same sequence.
It' a commutator.

R U L Uâ€™ Râ€™ Uâ€™
R U L Uâ€™ Râ€™ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€™ Râ€™ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€™ Râ€™ U â€˜ dâ€™ U

R U L Uâ€™ Râ€™ Uâ€™
R U L Uâ€™ Râ€™ Uâ€™
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€™ Râ€™ U
R U Lâ€™ Uâ€™ Râ€™ d

This makes this 2x2 swap:
Attachment:

Uranusperm.png [ 13.74 KiB | Viewed 2765 times ]

Much fun with this

Cheers,
Andrea

PS: I added this to my tutorial. With this it's much more easy to solve the tet uranus.

Attachment:
teturanus.pdf [442.84 KiB]

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:04 am

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
No one has yet said whether they consider it necessary to use a simulator to work out how to solve these.
Do you think I can solve this series (bear in mind that I'm not very bright! ) with only a puzzle to practice on or is a simulator required?
The pentahedrons are relatively easy to disassemble - similar to a 3x3 cube - so you can look for algorithms on the puzzle itself and disassemble and restore to solved if it gets too mixed up. I worked out how to solve the standard pentahedron set with just the puzzles. I started with [spoiler]basic cuboid algorithms[/spoiler] and adapted them.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:22 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
Hi all. Sorry to bump an old topic, but I could not find the answer to my question anywhere in the 10 pages of posts.

I have solved all the crazy cubes and pentahedrons. I am currently working through the tetrahedrons [4 versions completed]. I'm finally feeling comfortable enough with circle puzzles to start tackling the megaminxes [they have been sitting on the shelf for a few months now]. For crazy tetrahedrons, pentahedrons and cubes I have seen many people list their perceived order of difficulty. However, I have not seen anyone list the megaminxes.

How would you rank the crazy megaminxes?

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Call me Seth

Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:35 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Seth,

It's a long thread, I understand if you can't find something. People may be asking more questions about Crazy Planet cubes shortly anyway, with the 2f/B4kits coming out.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17134&start=324

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:55 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
Thanks, Burgo.

I'm trying to knock out as many circles puzzles as I can before the Crazy2/3/B4 kit arrives. The megaminxes should be good practice.

_________________
Call me Seth

Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:23 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am
Location: Rye, East Sussex
All i can do is Venus and Earth over and over again untill my B4 kit arrives lol

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How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:16 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
andychilly wrote:
All i can do is Venus and Earth over and over again untill my B4 kit arrives lol

Well if you only have the venus and earth planet cubes, you can actually do a lot more. If you grab one of your "0" centers from earth and put it into a "1" center on venus, then you can make a mars or neptune. Or you could grab your two "1" centers from venus and put them into earth to make saturn and uranus. In fact, seeing as you have a total of 4 "1" centers and 8 "0" centers, the only planet cube you can't make is jupiter. I hope I haven't misunderstood what you meant.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:24 am

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:04 pm
I'm pretty sure that means he only has an Earth or a Venus (not both). That would limit you to only four 0-faces and two 1-faces, so only those two configurations are possible.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:54 am

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
bwross wrote:
I'm pretty sure that means he only has an Earth or a Venus (not both). That would limit you to only four 0-faces and two 1-faces, so only those two configurations are possible.

Hmmm. And I see my ability to misinterpret things has risen to an all-new high

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:10 am

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am
Location: Rye, East Sussex
hehe yeah sorry rline, I just have the Earth cube and I alternate turning it into a Venus

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How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:45 am

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
themathkid wrote:
I have solved all the crazy cubes and pentahedrons. I am currently working through the tetrahedrons [4 versions completed].

OMG! That is amazing!

I have the puzzles required to make any of the pentahedra or tetrahedra after Rline's fantastic videos showing how to convert them all. I have solved the basic non crazy versions but have totally failed to solve ANY of the crazy ones! I just cannot do it. I've tried to investigate them to find algorithms but it keeps scrambling up on me! I am really impressed that you have managed that - I obviously have a long long way to go on this journey!

It's making me rather frightened of Burgo & Rline's kit!

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:49 am

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
It's making me rather frightened of Burgo & Rline's kit!

Trust me, Kevin: you should be frightened. I'm terrified of it

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:03 am

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am
Location: Rye, East Sussex
rline wrote:
Trust me, Kevin: you should be frightened. I'm terrified of it

Dr Frank-rlines monster i presume!

I am scared/ Excited of the kit. but I will probably spend the first week playing with the 333 planet series and getting that out of my system. I'll be scared by the time im at the stage of adding rlines ingenious 2face.

_________________
How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:57 am

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
themathkid wrote:
I have solved all the crazy cubes and pentahedrons. I am currently working through the tetrahedrons [4 versions completed].

OMG! That is amazing!

I have the puzzles required to make any of the pentahedra or tetrahedra after Rline's fantastic videos showing how to convert them all. I have solved the basic non crazy versions but have totally failed to solve ANY of the crazy ones! I just cannot do it. I've tried to investigate them to find algorithms but it keeps scrambling up on me! I am really impressed that you have managed that - I obviously have a long long way to go on this journey!

It's making me rather frightened of Burgo & Rline's kit!

I would recommend tackling the crazy cubes first if you have not already. They teach you the techniques you need for the others - reduction to circle puzzle, reduction to standard puzzle, edge / circle edge pairing, corner / circle corner pairing, and circle corners last. The first two megaminxes I tried were easy after learning the cubes.

The tetrahedrons are driving me crazy [thus the name??]. My methods and algorithms for the pyraminx are all vertex-turning, so I've had to change my perspective to face-turning. But skewb algorithms come in very handy. But the sequences so far have been fairly simple [at least for Mercury / Jupiter / Mars]. Nothing like the circle corners last methods for some of the crazy cubes.

It's been almost a year since I went through the pentahedrons. I found them very easy. I think I knocked them all out in a weekend. Sequences often carried over from puzzle to puzzle, so that the last 2-3 that I tried were almost complete rehashes. Venus really provided the bulk of the techniques if I remember correctly. My methods were not elegant, though. I remember some of my sequences being ridiculously long - commutators x20 or something crazy! Andrea's puzzle simulator was very helpful for finding sequences.

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Call me Seth

Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:46 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
themathkid wrote:
I would recommend tackling the crazy cubes first if you have not already

Oh, I struggled my way through them over a year ago but found they haven't helped with the pentahedra and certainly not with the tetrahedra!

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Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:38 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Seth,

You mentioned that you are doing the Tets, and by CCL, have you tried them with reduction? A long time ago now I made a private video for rline, about the reduction method for Mercury, and I shared it with a few others. I never revealed it publicly because it was very casual, and not really adequate for a tutorial. I'm prepared to make it public http://youtu.be/__lfvQm92T0 , just remember it's intention and be a bit forgiving of the format. I had only solved it a few times and was only in the process of developing a method, it's not perfect, but it will give you an idea of the thinking behind this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17134&start=330

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:48 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
Burgo wrote:
Hi Seth,
You mentioned that you are doing the Tets, and by CCL, have you tried them with reduction? A long time ago now I made a private video for rline, about the reduction method for Mercury, and I shared it with a few others. I never revealed it publicly because it was very casual, and not really adequate for a tutorial. I'm prepared to make it public http://youtu.be/__lfvQm92T0 , just remember it's intention and be a bit forgiving of the format. I had only solved it a few times and was only in the process of developing a method, it's not perfect, but it will give you an idea of the thinking behind this: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... &start=330

Here's the ones I have solved and method used:

- Circle Tet
- Mercury by CCL
- Earth / Mars / Jupiter / Neptune by reduction to standard cube

I don't particularly like reduction to circle cube approach. I understand the methods perfectly fine, but in practice I find it extremely confusing compared to other approaches and also more prone to careless errors. I avoided this technique on the cubes. I will probably not revisit Mercury for a reduction solve.

I really enjoy Neptune and Mars by reduction. I don't especially like tetrahedrons because they have no "freedom" [every move affects all 4 faces]. But the heavy focus on corners in Mars and Neptune gave me the sense of freedom that I'd been missing with the others. Very rewarding solves.

Hoping to tackle Venus and Saturn this weekend. Feeling much more comfortable with the tet series now. Not looking forward to Uranus, though...

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:52 am

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:04 pm
For Tets, I found Saturn and Venus to be not much harder than Earth. Which shouldn't be too surprising, these have same 0111-center aspect pattern[*] as Earth and Jupiter, and I put Saturn and Venus between them difficulty wise, at the easy end of the scale. Then comes Mercury, followed by the more difficult ones which would be the 0011-center aspects: Mars, Neptune, 0012. Uranus is brutal... it would be kind of an understatement to call it just difficult.

I use reduction for all but Uranus (which I haven't gotten around to solving). I tend to avoid working out cycles of pieces if I can avoid it by reducing to simpler problems. With the tets this means I have no method for cycling inner corners yet... I haven't needed it, because I always reduce that problem away. But Uranus seems to be the end of that for me, which is probably why I keep putting it off.

Mercury and Jupiter were very easy for me to come up with a solution, because reducing those puzzles was so similar to doing the cube versions. I imagine that someone starting out with no crazy or tetrahedron experience would not find Mercury as easy as I put it above. Mercury being the odd one out in my order, because it has a 0001-center aspect like Uranus, but no 2-face to lock things up, which makes for a large difference between the two. Being so similar to the cube Mercury actually makes me consider it on par with Jupiter in difficulty (but heavier work because it's a circle-tet reduction). The 0111-center set sticks together at the bottom because I'm reducing all of them to a regular tet with three 1-faces to work with, which makes them similar, and solving without one face isn't that hard. The 0011-center set is similar, only since I'm reducing to a regular tet with only two 1-faces to work with, it's harder. The 2-faces add flavour. Mercury and Uranus don't really compare well with the rest, because my approach is (will have to be (for Uranus)) different than a regular tet reduction.

[*] I'm using "aspect" here to separate the two parts that got conflated in the 0/1/2-face nomenclature. One aspect is the center aspect, which is the more functional one... it's based on what the center locks to: the core (0-face) or the outer ring (1-face). The other aspect is the face aspect: what does the face look like solved? That also has an impact on solving (pieces and configurations available), but it's not as much of a functional one (faces change during the solve, but not centers... meaning that you can build a circle on a 2/3 face and then use it like a 1/0 face, but you can't make the orange center change it's locking so that it changes from a 0 to a 1).

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:36 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
I finished the Venus, Saturn and Pluto tets. Venus and Saturn were very easy by reduction. Pluto drove me absolutely bonkers. So much blocking. My method feels extremely convoluted because of all the corner twisting required.

I played around with Uranus earlier in the week. Not enjoyable in the slightest. I don't think I'll have the time or energy to solve.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:17 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
themathkid wrote:
I finished the Venus, Saturn and Pluto tets. Venus and Saturn were very easy by reduction. Pluto drove me absolutely bonkers. So much blocking. My method feels extremely convoluted because of all the corner twisting required.

I played around with Uranus earlier in the week. Not enjoyable in the slightest. I don't think I'll have the time or energy to solve.

I concur with your assessment of both pluto and uranus. Uranus just isn't a fun puzzle for me. For me, pluto also involved a lot of "stopping to twist corners" in between what I was trying to do. I'm looking forward to revisiting all the crazy planet cubes as I get into the B4 kit.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:40 am

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:04 pm
The thing about Pluto/0012 is that the Mars half of it will make you start to feel comfortable, but as soon as that happens the Neptune half will jump out to remind you that it exists. Which is why I think its blocking feels a little more frustrating than Neptune.

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Last edited by bwross on Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:44 am

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
I've been working my way through the Megaminxes the last few days. I was not prepared for how time consuming they are! Even Jupiter took forever with a very straightforward reduction method. So far I have completed all the planets that can be done with reduction to standard Megaminx: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. I find it interesting that the inner planets are all 0-heavy and the gas giants 1-heavy. I wonder if this was intentional?

Jupiter and Uranus were a cinch. Saturn was not bad either, though corner / circle-corner pairing is abusively time consuming. Neptune required a small trick for edge flipping, but it's the exact same trick I used for the Mars and Saturn cubes, so still nothing crazy. The rest was just like Saturn. I expect this will be the longest of the solves by far, so in a sense it's all downhill from here.

My CrazyB4 kit is just begging to be played with, but my obsessive nature won't let me touch it until I finish these Megaminxes. I'm hoping to tackle the inner planets this weekend. I will have to brush up on my reduction to circle cube techniques. I have not used them since I solved the Mercury and Venus cubes almost a year ago! Mercury, Venus and Earth look like they will solve similarly, so hopefully these will go quickly.

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Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:01 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Well, you're fast, that's for sure

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's CrPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:59 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
Today I finished the last of the Crazy Megaminxes. I found the inner planets to be EXTREMELY time consuming - longer than Neptune by far. Mars took me the better part of a day, on and off. For some unknown reason I kept screwing up Venus near the end and having to start over. Very disheartening. I did not have this problem with the others, though, so I'm still not sure what was going on. After Venus, I made a habit of removing the center caps of the 1 faces to help identify them quickly and prevent accidentally turning them later in the solve.

Reduction to standard megaminx with the outer planets is very efficient. It's usually not difficult to pair 2 edges or 2 circle corners at a time. With reduction to circle Megaminx on the inner planets, however, this is not easy. Usually only one at a time is feasible. AND you have to solve the circle corners first [I am very inefficient at this part]. Dealing with the corners at the end is easy enough with CPS and orienting algorithms, but it just seems to take forever. I find it difficult to correctly position more than one corner at a time.

My order of difficulty would be:
Jupiter = Uranus --> Saturn --> Mercury = Venus = Earth --> Neptune = Mars

Honestly, I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed in the Crazy Megaminxes from a solving perspective. While they helped me perfect the techniques for crazy puzzles, I don't feel like I learned any new tricks [perhaps this is just arrogance on my part?]. I solved all 8 planets with the exact same tricks as the Crazy 3x3x3 planets. No need for CCL, even. With 12 faces and only 2 face types, there's just too much freedom for there to be any surprises or real constraints. And the length of the solves make them a little boring - hundreds and hundreds of EPS over and over. Maybe I shouldn't have done all 8 planets in such rapid succession. Maybe I just burned myself out? *shrug*

On a slightly related note, I finally solved my Crazy 4x4x4 III. At one time, I considered this the most difficult puzzle I owned [about 2 years ago?] and quickly gave up on trying to solve it, resorting to a tutorial. I revisited it recently and found it relatively straightforward. I must be getting good this! Now to tackle the Crazy2Faces I've been hearing so much about...

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Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns

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