Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:51 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
The global economy works like a giant energy-fuelled ponzi scheme, as we depend on more and more cheap energy to grow out of debt, while each generation consumes more resources and borrows more from the next. Now it seems that global oil production has recently peaked and begun its inevitable terminal decline as resources become more scarce, lower quality and less accessible. Food and energy prices will soar forever upwards as demand for energy continues to increase with the growing population while energy production falls and becomes more expensive. Economic growth will then stop and begin terminal decline, with a permanent recession/depression, financial meltdown, mass unemployment, global war, famine, disease, and a complete breakdown of human civilization.

Are we now at the beginning of the end?

Check out "peak oil" videos on youtube for more facts and background.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Last edited by KelvinS on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:14 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Well....that's a cheery note to start the weekend off with.

_________________
Q: How many puzzles does a collector need in their collection?
A: Just one more.



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Hybrid424 wrote:
Well....that's a cheery note to start the weekend off with.

Sorry, have a few smilies: :D :D :D :D :D

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:52 am
Mmm. Depressing.

Of course, we could just get less dependent on energy as a commodity. That could work, I guess? I don't know, I'm not an economist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
megaminxwin wrote:
Of course, we could just get less dependent on energy as a commodity. That could work, I guess? I don't know, I'm not an economist.

Unfortunately, the problem is that we absolutely depend on more energy for growth, and the economy absolutely depends on sustained growth to function. And like all ponzi/pyramid schemes, the entire system collapses as soon as it can grow no longer. We managed to escape the great depression of the 1930s only because we found enough cheap oil/energy to grow out of it, but now what?

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:33 am
Location: Belgium
Dont think to negative, there are alternatives for oil, sun- and wind-energy are free, you only need a (expensive) installation. And as everyone becomes aware of this problem, people try to use less energy especially because it is more and more expensive. :)

_________________
Lucie

http://1002-puzzles.blogspot.be/
For sale : 1more Puzzle - Triangle & 1more Puzzle - Cubylon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:25 pm
Location: Finland
But we, as in the people, don't like having their privileges taken away (in this case the privilege of consuming as much energy as we currently do). And the third world nations haven't even gotten to our standard of living, think of the energy requirements then :shock:

Also, I don't expect us to shift to renewable energy before it's too late. I mean, there still is oil left somewhere, so why bother changing to solar panels and that stuff? They take money to develop, you know. (As does digging the little oil we can find, but I'm sure the oil companies prefer that)

Though Germany is at least trying to go renewable. to replace the nuclear plants they shut down :D

_________________
My pen-and-paper puzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
With regard to energy sources, I think it's really a matter of economics. Right now the path of least resistance (cost) is one of consumption of fossil fuels. I don't take this to mean we'll run out and the world will collapse. Instead I take it to mean we're headed to a tipping point where the cost of our current energy sources will become equal and then greater than other energy sources (and conservation).

Here is the positive view: Sure if we ran out of oil today it would mean global collapse. We'll run out gradually though which will leave plenty of time to develop other energy sources.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:48 am
Location: In Front Of My Teraminx (saying WTF?)
To be honest, I am quite glad we are running out of petroleum, because once there is no more, we will be obligated to use clean energy =)
I personally use gas the least possible. I live 150m from my engineering school and 1.7 km from the closest supermarket, but I do everything by bike. My only gaz is for water heating, but I would prefer electric.

Sooo... economic and political problem. We just have to start reacting.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop!
My Designs
My Official Results
My Website on Twisty Puzzles with Gears

Grégoire Pfennig


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
As I said, the problem is not that we are running out of oil, because that won't happen for at least a hundred years, the problem is that we are now passing our maximum capacity to produce oil, which is the cheapest form of energy, so energy prices will continue to rise very sharply, and the global economy will collapse because it can no longer grow, just like any other ponzi/pyramid scheme. Make sense?

I seriously recommend checking out some "peak oil" videos on Youtube, to really understand the issue here.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:48 am
Location: In Front Of My Teraminx (saying WTF?)
Well, is the economy falls, we'll just fall back a couple dozen years in the economy :)

_________________
My Shapeways Shop!
My Designs
My Official Results
My Website on Twisty Puzzles with Gears

Grégoire Pfennig


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
Well, is the economy falls, we'll just fall back a couple dozen years in the economy :)

Except that we will no longer have the easily accessible oil resources that have sustained a population that is much bigger than the earth can otherwise sustain (each calorie of food we produce requires 10 calories of oil for the fertilizer, pesticides, mechanical agriculture and transport of food into the cities). Just think about that.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Last edited by KelvinS on Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
KelvinS wrote:
Are we now at the beginning of the end?

My educated and scientifically proven reply is this- These things have a funny way of working themselves out.
Every week you can read a new scare story in the papers. I mean, weren't we all supposed to die of Aids, bird flu etc etc? They all seem backed up with evidence yet the world just keeps turning without much change (unless you are Greek of course).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
I guess what I'm saying is that Greece is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg, its problems are fundamental and shared by the rest of the world to an increasing degree. Everyone (people, companies, banks and governments) has been borrowing from each other beyond their means, on the promise of future economic growth that has been driven by oil and can no longer be sustained.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
So, what we humans need to do is develop nuclear fusion as a workable power source. Then, oil and gas are no longer required for power, electricity becomes so cheap that electric vehicles are the norm, greenhouse gas production drops to very low levels, our economies are not hamstrung by being tied to oil. No need go fight in foreign countries to ensure oil supplies. Simples.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Gus wrote:
So, what we humans need to do is develop nuclear fusion as a workable power source. Then, oil and gas are no longer required for power, electricity becomes so cheap that electric vehicles are the norm, greenhouse gas production drops to very low levels, our economies are not hamstrung by being tied to oil. No need go fight in foreign countries to ensure oil supplies. Simples.

That could work in theory. In practice we would first have to develop the technology, and then replace our entire oil-based infrastructure (every car, truck, powerstation, etc.) with a fusion-electricity based one, all the time while continuing to grow.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Last edited by KelvinS on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:45 pm
It doesn't matter y'all! Haven't you :oops: :roll: seen the news recently? The zombie apocalypse is going to begin in full force long before any of this can take effect.

We're in luck though. My plan, since most zombies will be non-cubers, is fool proof. All we have to do is speedsolve a 3x3 in front of the zombies. The remaining human logic left in them combined with the zombie barbarian brainwaves will cause their heads to explode when they see you effortlessly return a 3x3 to a solved state. I personally recommend stickerless Dayan cube as your "weapon". That way they can't just accuse you of peeling the stickers before eating your face.

Seriously though, glass half full guys. The world's been ending since it began. Sure we may be the closest generation to the end thus far, but until us, our parents were the closest to the end. Pretty soon, our children will be closer to the end than us. I say, make the best of what's left while doing your part to stay economical. Bike and walk when possible. RECYCLE! Turn the lights and tv's off. It's too late to stop the end. I say enjoy your time, and make every effort to prolong and better the inevitable. Oh and don't forget to smile.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
I can't argue with that. :D

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Gus wrote:
No need go fight in foreign countries to ensure oil supplies. Simples.

I wasn't aware that we did.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:34 am
Location: gorleston,great yarmouth
A more efficiant method of energy extraction from wind than turbines is the most likely in the british mainland is the best option.I know google are going to be heavily involved in the building of the worlds largest windfarms in the future,so this for me will be the way to go.Its a pity rain clouds cant be harnessed for energy,we would have loads of surplus power by the crateload.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
gibbleking wrote:
A more efficiant method of energy extraction from wind than turbines is the most likely in the british mainland is the best option.I know google are going to be heavily involved in the building of the worlds largest windfarms in the future,so this for me will be the way to go.Its a pity rain clouds cant be harnessed for energy,we would have loads of surplus power by the crateload.

On some tv program the other day they were saying that wind turbines produced no where near enough energy for the UK and it was being done almost as a token gesture. The same applies to solar, wave etc.
The obvious solution to me is to build mini dynamos into speedcubes and generate power that way.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Tony Fisher wrote:
On some tv program the other day they were saying that wind turbines produced no where near enough energy for the UK and it was being done almost as a token gesture. The same applies to solar, wave etc.

Yes, that's very true, the efficiency of these alternative energies is terrible, and doesn't even make up for a small percentage of the *incremental* growth in energy demand each year, let alone carry any hope of making up for any decrease in oil production each year. The worst offender is ethanol, where we burn more than 10 calories of oil just to generate one calorie of ethanol. The world has gone completely bonkers.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
gibbleking wrote:
A more efficiant method of energy extraction from wind than turbines is the most likely in the british mainland is the best option.I know google are going to be heavily involved in the building of the worlds largest windfarms in the future,so this for me will be the way to go.Its a pity rain clouds cant be harnessed for energy,we would have loads of surplus power by the crateload.
The entire wind turbine concept is almost total BS. The whole system is run now on the concept of carbon credits, whereby those small companies who run the turbines sell the carbon credits they earn to the normal generating companies to offset their "bad" power stations. A great deal of money changes hands in this way. A lot of which goes to the government, you will not be surprised to hear.

From a practical standpoint wind farms do not work. Let's say that we had built enough farms to supply the entire energy requirements of the UK. Now, it just so happens that during the highest energy consumption times (winter) there are quite a few days when there is little or no wind at all for days at a time. During this period, the energy companies would have to "fire up" normal power stations to supply the energy needs of a windless UK, so they have to maintain these "bad" power stations (in a "moth balled" state) even though they are supposedly not required. This is not cheap, and somebody has to pay for this. Guess who? So, the electricity produced by wind farms actually turns out to be very much more expensive that the existing (fossil fuel) electricity generation.

And remember, that we are only talking about electricity generation here. Actually, the percentage of a UK households energy needs which are supplied by electricity is much less than gas, which supply the majority of our heating and cooking needs.

So, if we want to have cheap, lowest emission electricity then fusion is the answer, closely followed by fission. And yes I know, fission is "bad" because of the waste products (even though they are much less of an environmental problem than the greens would have us believe), but we should actually be developing thorium reactors, which use readily available source fuels and are much cleaner and safer than uranium based reactors.

(And the really sad thing about nuclear fission reactors? When they were being developed in the 50s, all the scientific knowledge pointed to thorium as the best choice. But guess what? The reactor development program was being funded by governments (i.e. the military) and they wanted weapons grade materials for bombs, and they needed uranium 235, so thorium reactors were discarded.)

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Gus wrote:
The entire wind turbine concept is almost total BS. The whole system is run now on the concept of carbon credits, whereby those small companies who run the turbines sell the carbon credits they earn to the normal generating companies to offset their "bad" power stations.

This is a good time for me to announce my new airline company. I will not actually have any planes though so I will save a huge amount of carbon emissions. Please contact me if you wish to buy some carbon credits.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Tony Fisher wrote:
Gus wrote:
Please contact me if you wish to buy some carbon credits.
I won't buy any credits, thanks, but I'd like to trade in some derivatives or credit default swaps based on those credits.

PS. This is another big reason why our economy is so screwed up - it has become so complex with all these abstract financial instruments that nobody understands it anymore, and everything is driven by speculators. Even the price of oil is not really based on pure supply and demand anymore, but on what people think that other people think that other people think it will be. I read somewhere that over a thousand trillion dollars of derivatives are traded every day, which are nothing more than speculative bets on share prices but don't generate any net value.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
Not many years ago, oil could not be traded on the futures market to stop people profiteering on what was considered an essential product. Then Goldman Sachs got their insidious claws into this, and lobbied the US government to allow such trading, and look what has happened to oil prices since.

A must read article: Goldman Sachs and the Great American Bubble Machine.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:51 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota, USA
My $.02.

Wind = dead birds
Dams = disrupt there ecosystem
Nuclear power = nuclear waste for 10,000 years
coal = pollution

Okay I know I didn't do all of but maybe over people can fill in the rest. How is microwave technology coming? Can anybody find a very good source of making tons of energy with out the bad side effects? My solution if it can be geothermal out in space. I heard it really hot out there if the sun is not blocked. Okay my idea may not be realistic but I can't find a better one out there other then microwave.

_________________
Darren & Traiphum's Dual Helicoptrahedron
X-TownCuber wrote:
Are my eyes deceiving me, or is this the coolest puzzle ever?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Plants are pretty darn good at capturing solar energy. They have evolved over billions of years to do it, and they are also pretty good at mopping up carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, we just clear out all the trees in the rain forests and grow crops to eat or burn, until the land becomes desert. The stark fact is that there are far, far too many of us, but it is in our nature to think of anything that would reduce our population as bad, and anything that would increase our population as good. But good/bad for what or whom, exactly? We like to think of ourselves as the most rational species, and yet look at us.

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
Realistically, the best place to collect solar energy is space. However, the problem is getting the power from space back to earth without incinerating everything in the beam's path. "You canna break the laws o'physics Capt,n"

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
KelvinS wrote:
Plants are pretty darn good at capturing solar energy. They have evolved over billions of years to do it, and they are also pretty good at mopping up carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, we just clear out all the trees in the rain forests and grow crops to eat or burn, until the land becomes desert. The stark fact is that there are far, far too many of us, but it is in our nature to think of anything that would reduce our population as bad, and anything that would increase our population as good. But good/bad for what or whom, exactly? We like to think of ourselves as the most rational species, and yet look at us.
Agreed, eventually, since the Earth is a closed system, the increase in population will be self-regulating (unless science can continue to improve people's lives), and sooner or later, for whatever reasons, things will start to go pear shaped. Perhaps they already have?

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
KelvinS wrote:
and anything that would increase our population as good. But good/bad for what or whom, exactly? We like to think of ourselves as the most rational species, and yet look at us.

Then perhaps I am the most rational since I don't ever want kids.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
Gus wrote:
Agreed, eventually, since the Earth is a closed system, the increase in population will be self-regulating (unless science can continue to improve people's lives), and sooner or later, for whatever reasons, things will start to go pear shaped. Perhaps they already have?
Yes, that's my view. Greece is just the start: civilisation is ending where it began. Will be interesting to see how their elections go this weekend, but I don't see it changing anything: eventually they will leave the Euro and descend into chaos, then the dominoes will fall faster and faster: Spain, Italy, France, UK, rest of Europe, US, rest of world... CRASH!!

I give it 5 years tops, before all hell breaks out and we have to start eating each other.

PS. I find it strange to be thinking this way: I am not religious, I have no strong political views (I have never voted), and I am generally an optimist by nature as I take personal risks on the basis that things will probably work out OK. And here I just try to connect all the facts by logic and reasoning and intuition, yet I can't seem to come to any other conclusion: both left and right sides of my brain are telling me the same thing. Have I missed something?

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Last edited by KelvinS on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:34 am
Location: gorleston,great yarmouth
Greece is in finacial mud already,for years endemic fraud and blatant tax evasion by most of the major earners for years has brought the country to where it is now.The magical euro wont do anything but put them further into debt.If i ran that country id leave and wipe the slate clean and start again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
gibbleking wrote:
Greece is in finacial mud already,for years endemic fraud and blatant tax evasion by most of the major earners for years has brought the country to where it is now.The magical euro wont do anything but put them further into debt.If i ran that country id leave and wipe the slate clean and start again.

Well there's no more room here (apart from for the Verdes family of course), so lock the doors.
I am curious to know how much Greece could raise from selling off it's national treasures.

KelvinS wrote:
I just try to connect all the facts by logic and reasoning and intuition, yet I can't seem to come to any other conclusion: both left and right sides of my brain are telling me the same thing. Have I missed something?

Yes you have, history. Like I was saying in my first reply, things never (in modern times anyway) seem to work out as bad as expected. In 5 years time I will bump this thread with "I told you so". Or you will be devouring someone's leg and forgotten all about this forum, interweb, electricity etc.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Now, the end really is nigh...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
I hope you are right, however there is no logical reason why the future should repeat the past, especially as the circumstances now are very different: we have passed the peak, while we *know* that growth is not sustainable. Also, history didn't do too well for the dinosaurs, speaking of the past...

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group