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 Post subject: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Hello!

I am going to present my second puzzle, the Subatomic Cube. This is the new world's smallest cube, with only 6mm to an edge! This is actually the second version of this puzzle, the first was a failure because the centres were unstable. I coloured the cube black with a marker, then cut out tiny stickers for it, similar to Tony Fisher's World's Smallest Conventional Rubik's Cube.

Shapeways: http://www.shapeways.com/model/503955/subatomic-cube.html

Edit: Shapeways feature! http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/ ... VIDEO.html

Tony's videos: (thanks for these!)

Unstickered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQeUqXbG5b0
Stickered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnm8LO7JWs
Assembly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvLWkuMIfbs

My video coming soon.

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Last edited by Callum on Wed May 23, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Wow! Just wow! Impressive! Congratulations!

How did you manage to assemble it? I have tried to assemble a puzzle in the same size range, and I failed. I bought a lens lamp and different sets of tweezers, and I failed again. I applied force, and a piece jumped through the room. Then I used more constrained force, and some pieces broke. What is your secret?

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps
I 3 times would like to order its own version of the puzzle,
but ShapeWay refused to print to me the details and canceled my order ;(
Why they did it for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
Wow! Just wow! Impressive! Congratulations!

How did you manage to assemble it? I have tried to assemble a puzzle in the same size range, and I failed. I bought a lens lamp and different sets of tweezers, and I failed again. I applied force, and a piece jumped through the room. Then I used more constrained force, and some pieces broke. What is your secret?

Oskar


Thanks!

On my first attempt, I experienced many of these issues. In about 20 seconds after beginning the assembly, I lost a centre. I was using some tweezers that open when you pinch them, so they hold the piece steady, and it shot away. Afterwards, I poured the pieces onto a cookie shhet to help contain them. Also, the centres were very hard to put in, but they wouldn't stay in once I did get it in. On the second attempt, I changed the design so that the core would print with the centres already in. This meant that I only had to assemble the edges and corners. At first I tried to use tweezers, but I found that it was actually easier to do it by hand. This was because I could apply force without the piece slipping through the tweezers. Over all, I assembled it very similar to a regular Rubik's Cube. One thing I noticed was that to put an edge in I didn't have to turn the side by 45 degrees. My pieces weren't hollow (escept for the core), so maybe that's why they didn't break?

grigr wrote:

Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps
I 3 times would like to order its own version of the puzzle,
but ShapeWay refused to print to me the details and canceled my order ;(
Why they did it for you?

Do you mean that you uploaded your own design and tried to print it or that you tried to print my model? If you tried to print your own, I think there must have been something in the design that Shapeways didn't like (I'm not sure what). If you were trying to print mine, I haven't made it for sale yet. I will in the future if you're ok with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:00 pm 
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This is incredible!

I would think to go any smaller, it would have to be printed in metal or something.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Why not print a 3x3x3 cube using this technology?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:25 pm 
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The problem is not printing it smaller. My company TNO has machines that can 3D-print at the micrometer scale. The problem is in the assembly. For going below 6x6x6 mm, one may need either a very dexterous <politically_correct_term>small person</politically_correct_term> or a micron-scale 3D-printer with soluble support. Up till now, I have found neither of those.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Have you never seen Fantastic Voyage? Just use this technology and you can use normal sized people to assemble the cube :D

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
The problem is in the assembly. For going below 6x6x6 mm, one may need either a very dexterous <politically_correct_term>small person</politically_correct_term> or a micron-scale 3D-printer with soluble support. Up till now, I have found neither of those.

Oskar, it's not hard! this sleight of hand ...

Callum wrote:
grigr wrote:

I 3 times would like to order its own version of the puzzle, but ShapeWay refused to print to me the details and canceled my order ;( Why they did it for you?

Do you mean that you uploaded your own design and tried to print it or that you tried to print my model? If you tried to print your own, I think there must have been something in the design that Shapeways didn't like (I'm not sure what). If you were trying to print mine, I haven't made it for sale yet. I will in the future if you're ok with it.

You casually looked at the picture in my signature ;) I have my own design.
well I'm glad that your design does not copy me! you come up with a hybrid: my Elemental Cube and Tomz Mini Cube :)
Thank You!

ps
ShapeWays probably does not like me ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:06 am 
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Amazing. :shock:

This photo is hilarious. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:34 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm 
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I think I am in love! I can't wait to own one of these. Now where's my beetle?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I think I am in love! I can't wait to own one of these. Now where's my beetle?

Tony with that cube you won't have a video of the beetle holding it, the beetle will eat it.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:40 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I think I am in love! I can't wait to own one of these. Now where's my beetle?

Tony with that cube you won't have a video of the beetle holding it, the beetle will eat it.


A beetle eating a rubik's cube, not good for that poor little creature, but would be more impressive :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Will this be available on Shapeways? I would absolutely love to own one or seven.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:40 pm 
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The Subatomic Cube is now for sale!
http://www.shapeways.com/model/503955/s ... -cube.html
Again, thanks for all the compliments!

Callum

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Callum wrote:
The Subatomic Cube is now for sale!
http://www.shapeways.com/model/503955/s ... -cube.html
Again, thanks for all the compliments!

Callum


I see you have only made this available in Frosted Ultra Detail. I thought there was a problem regarding strength or something with this material.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Callum wrote:
The Subatomic Cube is now for sale!
http://www.shapeways.com/model/503955/s ... -cube.html
Again, thanks for all the compliments!

Callum


I see you have only made this available in Frosted Ultra Detail. I thought there was a problem regarding strength or something with this material.


I've only tested it in this material, frosted detail might not be quite precise enough. On my cube, I did notice it was quite delicate, but I'm not sure it can be avoided. I just turn it carefully and don't force it. The model comes with two cubes in case any pieces break.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Any Video available?

ps
warning. very small parts! SW can cancel all orders and block model
;( This is my part of the experience

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:33 am 
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grigr wrote:
Any Video available?

ps
warning. very small parts! SW can cancel all orders and block model
;( This is my part of the experience


I have recorded the video, I just need to upload it. It's too bad about the cancelling, but I guess small parts are required.

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Last edited by Callum on Wed May 09, 2012 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:16 am 
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If Shapeways has a problem with really small pieces, maybe a thin cage could be built around all the parts keeping them together. Then it could just be cut open.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:56 am 
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grigr wrote:
Any Video available?

ps
warning. very small parts! SW can cancel all orders and block model
;( This is my part of the experience


Well there are certain requirements that each model needs to fill in order to be printed


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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:53 am 
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Callum wrote:
I've only tested it in this material, frosted detail might not be quite precise enough.
I'd love to see this printed in metal. If this is too small to print in metal I wonder what the smallest possible is that they would print in metal.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:09 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Callum wrote:
I've only tested it in this material, frosted detail might not be quite precise enough.
I'd love to see this printed in metal. If this is too small to print in metal I wonder what the smallest possible is that they would print in metal.

Carl

Their metal printing process is complicated and rather low-resolution.

They first print steel powder with an "organic binder". Then they fire the steel in a kiln. It's extremely brittle at this stage. They then surround porous the steel "sand" with bronze and melt the bronze into the model. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VOwqtOglg. I seriously doubt their metal printing process could come even close to the needed resolution.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:14 pm 
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xGATOxMALOx wrote:
grigr wrote:
Any Video available?

ps
warning. very small parts! SW can cancel all orders and block model
;( This is my part of the experience


Well there are certain requirements that each model needs to fill in order to be printed


I think he knows that but was curious about how his own similar sized cube was rejected yet Callum's wasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:13 am 
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I received mine and managed to assemble it without too much trouble. It's truly amazing and works really well. I will colour and sticker it but in the mean time- Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQeUqXbG5b0
I am confident I can assemble smaller than this so I await the next instalment with great excitement.

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Last edited by Tony Fisher on Wed May 16, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:43 am 
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Congratulation Calumn and Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck

Tony Fisher wrote:
I think he knows that but was curious about how his own similar sized cube was rejected yet Callum's wasn't.

I did a other size. My was smaller, but nearly to it ...
I will make another attempt ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:24 am 
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grigr wrote:
Congratulation Calumn and Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck

I had nothing to do with it. I just purchased and assembled one. By next instalment I mean the next one you guys make available.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Does anyone know Shapeways rule regarding tiny parts? What dimensions do they reject? Could you get round it by joining two (or more) parts together with a tiny bar which could later be removed by hand?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Does anyone know Shapeways rule regarding tiny parts? What dimensions do they reject? Could you get round it by joining two (or more) parts together with a tiny bar which could later be removed by hand?


Tony:
Shapeways Rules for small parts are mostly due to the handling issues and costs. It is more expensive for them to have a model with many parts that are not attached to each other, as they have to locate each one to assemble the order. Small parts also can fall through the holes of their sifting trays for SWF material. What they can require is that all the parts in your model can be handled as one part. This can be done by attaching them together in your model - which is not very good for your small cube. Or, as oBNoo mentioned; build a cage to contain them. If you build a cage then the dimensions of the cage are the small dimension Shapeways will be measuring. This is the bounding box size for your model. For your cube this would look like a screen box, with holes small enough so no part could fall through. Shapeways will then love your model. They can handle it and clean it easily as one part. This will then be plenty big enough to meet their rules, and rules about multiple parts in a model.

You can see an example of how I used a cage to attach the various parts of my puzzle on one of my models below - use the 3D view of the model and rotate to see the cage
http://www.shapeways.com/model/452575/t ... metry.html

PS: The Subatomic Cube is awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:10 pm 
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I finally finished stickering Callum's amazing puzzle and uploaded a new video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnm8LO7JWs

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I finally finished stickering Callum's amazing puzzle and uploaded a new video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnm8LO7JWs


Wow! That looks so much better than mine! Good job. I suppose that's what I get for not using a ruler.

Callum

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:12 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I finally finished stickering Callum's amazing puzzle and uploaded a new video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnm8LO7JWs
Nice!!! Any chance you made a video of the stickering process? Cutting and attaching stickers that small must be a real challenge.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Steve Winter wrote:
You can see an example of how I used a cage to attach the various parts of my puzzle on one of my models below - use the 3D view of the model and rotate to see the cage
http://www.shapeways.com/model/452575/t ... metry.html
Nice idea... but how do you assure Shapeways prints the parts connected as you have shown? In my experience getting the Thorny Cube printed, I had to have the core printed 3 times before they printed it with the face centers where they needed to be. You can see my Thorny Cube core here.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:55 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Steve Winter wrote:
You can see an example of how I used a cage to attach the various parts of my puzzle on one of my models below - use the 3D view of the model and rotate to see the cage
http://www.shapeways.com/model/452575/t ... metry.html
Nice idea... but how do you assure Shapeways prints the parts connected as you have shown? In my experience getting the Thorny Cube printed, I had to have the core printed 3 times before they printed it with the face centers where they needed to be. You can see my Thorny Cube core here.

Carl

Use any CAD program to create a solid model with multiple parts in it. Position the parts relative to each other as you want them printed. Next save this model to an STL file to upload to Shapeways. Set the appropriate options to have all parts saved in one STL file. The parts in the model will be printed in the same relative position and orientation with respect to each other as in your CAD drawing.

For example the ball in my model is printed in the center of the cage, exactly where it is in the CAD model. Note that the cage and ball are not connected by any solid material. The ball is "floating" within the cage.

I looked at your Thorny Cube core, but am not sure what the issue was. Is this one solid piece, or are the faces and the core separate pieces that do not have solid material connecting them. What was the particular problem with the models you received that you could not use it?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 am 
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Steve Winter wrote:
Use any CAD program to create a solid model with multiple parts in it. Position the parts relative to each other as you want them printed. Next save this model to an STL file to upload to Shapeways. Set the appropriate options to have all parts saved in one STL file. The parts in the model will be printed in the same relative position and orientation with respect to each other as in your CAD drawing.
That would be nice if it were true but its simply not. Any two parts in the same STL file which are not connected and made into a single part, Shapeways is free to move before they print it and they often do. On my Thorny Cube core I had 3 face centers which were to be printed already on their axes. Each axis is capped with a large fixed piece so these face centers can not be removed once printed in the correct position, without cutting them. All parts were in the same STL file. The first time I printed it I got the core and the face centers but the face centers were not on their axes. I contacted Shapeways and told them of their error. I got a coupon to get it printed again. This time I just got the core and no face centers so again it was clear things had been moved before printing. I contacted Shapeways again and got another coupon. This time with customer service monitoring the whole process the core was printed correctly. However to avoid this situation if I have any customers that wish to purchase a Thorny Cube I've attached the face centers to the core with a thin rod which can easy be cut with an X-acto knife. That is much easier than having it printed 3 times.

Its not just me that has had issues with Shapeways moving seperate parts within a single STL file. See Tom's post here. There shapeways printed a smaller part inside one of his hollowed out parts and he had to resort to cutting it out.

The only way I know to assure everything is printed in the position you specify in the STL file is to connect everything with 0.7mm rods such that its all one big part. You can later cut them apart as you like.
Steve Winter wrote:
For example the ball in my model is printed in the center of the cage, exactly where it is in the CAD model. Note that the cage and ball are not connected by any solid material. The ball is "floating" within the cage.
I'd say you've been very lucy so far. I think you are just as likely (if not more likely) to get the maze, the cage, and the ball shipped to you all seperated.
Steve Winter wrote:
I looked at your Thorny Cube core, but am not sure what the issue was. Is this one solid piece, or are the faces and the core separate pieces that do not have solid material connecting them. What was the particular problem with the models you received that you could not use it?
Originially it was 4 seperate parts in the same STL file. The 3 face centers were to be printed on their axes where they would be free to rotate yet they couldn't be removed. It's now all one part connected with rods which need to be cut and that has worked well.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:37 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Steve Winter wrote:
Use any CAD program to create a solid model with multiple parts in it. Position the parts relative to each other as you want them printed. Next save this model to an STL file to upload to Shapeways. Set the appropriate options to have all parts saved in one STL file. The parts in the model will be printed in the same relative position and orientation with respect to each other as in your CAD drawing.
That would be nice if it were true but its simply not. Any two parts in the same STL file which are not connected and made into a single part, Shapeways is free to move before they print it and they often do. On my Thorny Cube core I had 3 face centers which were to be printed already on their axes. Each axis is capped with a large fixed piece so these face centers can not be removed once printed in the correct position, without cutting them. All parts were in the same STL file. The first time I printed it I got the core and the face centers but the face centers were not on their axes. I contacted Shapeways and told them of their error. I got a coupon to get it printed again. This time I just got the core and no face centers so again it was clear things had been moved before printing. I contacted Shapeways again and got another coupon. This time with customer service monitoring the whole process the core was printed correctly. However to avoid this situation if I have any customers that wish to purchase a Thorny Cube I've attached the face centers to the core with a thin rod which can easy be cut with an X-acto knife. That is much easier than having it printed 3 times.

Its not just me that has had issues with Shapeways moving seperate parts within a single STL file. See Tom's post here. There shapeways printed a smaller part inside one of his hollowed out parts and he had to resort to cutting it out.

The only way I know to assure everything is printed in the position you specify in the STL file is to connect everything with 0.7mm rods such that its all one big part. You can later cut them apart as you like.
Steve Winter wrote:
For example the ball in my model is printed in the center of the cage, exactly where it is in the CAD model. Note that the cage and ball are not connected by any solid material. The ball is "floating" within the cage.
I'd say you've been very lucy so far. I think you are just as likely (if not more likely) to get the maze, the cage, and the ball shipped to you all seperated.
Steve Winter wrote:
I looked at your Thorny Cube core, but am not sure what the issue was. Is this one solid piece, or are the faces and the core separate pieces that do not have solid material connecting them. What was the particular problem with the models you received that you could not use it?
Originially it was 4 seperate parts in the same STL file. The 3 face centers were to be printed on their axes where they would be free to rotate yet they couldn't be removed. It's now all one part connected with rods which need to be cut and that has worked well.

Carl

Arrggg... That is really bad if Shapeways is moving parts around relative to each other in your STL model. That is definitely a no-no and sounds like a Shapeways bug. I understand your model better now with your description. It should be able to be printed without connections. It can take a lot of work to get Shapeways to fix bugs like this, glad you found a work-around.

I wonder if the bug is material related. I have had tons of my mazes printed by myself and customers of my shop, and never any of these problems. All of mine are printed in SWF, or a colored version. What material were you using?

I don't think this bug exists when using SWF. There are lots of products in Shapeways shops that have lots of separate parts that print successfully. For example the chain-mail here:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/196069/d ... aille.html

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:49 am 
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Well you are mistaken: it can happen in WSF too - both Carl and I have examples of it.
The people at Shapeways are not stupid: when something is obvious an assembly (like a chainmail or one of your mazes) they won't touch it. However in general, moving twisty puzzle parts about is not a problem and they do it all the time. Carl's model caught them off guard, most of the parts could be moved freely except the three centers.

But I think we are veering off topic now.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Finally got my unboxing / assembly / stickering video uploaded here. It shows how I assembled Callum's 6mm Subatomic Cube and then cut and added the stickers.

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Subatomic Cube edge piece held in tweezers.

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Subatomic Cube corner piece

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Subatomic Cube broken core

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The finished Subatomic Cube after a few moves, already looking tatty.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Patience Grasshopper, patience. That's all it needs :)
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Can you show a video of yourself solving it blindfolded using only one foot?

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Subatomic Cube broken core


Oops! Good thing there are spares!

Gus wrote:
Can you show a video of yourself solving it blindfolded using only one foot?


I'll get back to you in a couple thousand years.

Also, Shapeways feature!
http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/ ... VIDEO.html

Callum

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Callum wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Subatomic Cube broken core

Oops! Good thing there are spares!

I was very happy. I ordered two but with the spares you included ended up with three whole puzzles.
Next video will be out-takes of me being a clutz.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:14 am 
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If you get one of these it goes without saying that you have to have a steady hand and be very careful. If you're not then..... Out-takes.

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:26 am 
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Callum,
I am attempting to assemble one of your subatomic cubes. Unfortunately, I cannot rotate the middle pieces that are attached to the core without them breaking off. It seems like they are fused to the core. This is the first time I have ordered from Shapeways. Is there something I am doing wrong? Do I need to clean the pieces before starting to assemble? If so, what is a good methood for cleaning? I do still have the second core, but I'm afraid to touch it.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Hi,

I'm not sure what to suggest. The centre pieces come printed inside of the core for ease of assembly. In frosted ultra detail, Shapeways says at least a 0.05mm gap for pieces not to be fused together, and there is a gap of 0.086 in the core. The centres should have been printed separate. Try moving the other core but don't force it. You might want to contact Shapeways customer service and ask them about it. They are usually very good.

Hope this helps.

Callum

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 Post subject: Re: Subatomic Cube
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:30 pm 
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MindBoggling wrote:
Callum,
I am attempting to assemble one of your subatomic cubes. Unfortunately, I cannot rotate the middle pieces that are attached to the core without them breaking off. It seems like they are fused to the core. This is the first time I have ordered from Shapeways. Is there something I am doing wrong? Do I need to clean the pieces before starting to assemble? If so, what is a good methood for cleaning? I do still have the second core, but I'm afraid to touch it.

Thanks


I have the same problem.


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