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 Post subject: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:19 pm

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am
Hi guys,

I solved my first rubik's cube the other day and I decided to continue collecting more cubes. I received an Illusion 7 V-Cube for my birthday. I have to say that I really liked that cube because I didn't need to memorize algorithms. I was wondering if the community could recommend some puzzles that are more intuitive based than algorithmic. I don't mind a few algorithms. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:48 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Littleton CO
Mosaic and dino cubes.
I’d suggest the Mosaic

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:48 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
DaYan Gem I is fun and and can be solved without algs. The MF8 Dino Dodecahedron (which they also call "Starminx I") only has an alg if you need to flip the last two edges. Finally, the 3x3x2 cuboid is a blast and the algs are very, very simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 am

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:16 am
I received my helicopter cube about two weeks ago and since then I solved it several times without searching the internet for algorithms. I still can't properly describe the last steps, but I think that it's a fun and relatively easy puzzle to play with.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:47 am

Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Sicily
i agree , mosaic cube, the only puzzle that i solved without seeking guides online

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Paolo

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:53 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
A truely intuitive Twisty is the Rainbow Cube.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:22 am

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
I would say they are all intuitive if you are working out the solutions for yourself. However I would suggest a Dino Cube if you are looking for something easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:44 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
I'd recommend my Doctor Cube. Of the puzzles I've designed its the only one I can solve without seeking some help. It's about on par with solving the top two layers of a Rubik's Cube. Which makes sense, as its a slice turn only puzzle opposite pieces always remain opposite, so once you've solved the top layer the bottom layer is automatically solved.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:02 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I would say that it depends from where you are coming - i. e. which puzzles you have solved so far - how easy or intuitive you will find a new twisty puzzle.
For somebody who has never solved a twisty puzzle before the mentioned Dino Cube (solves as a Rainbow Cube or a Compy Cube) or a Meffert's Platypus are a good choice. The Mosaic Cube is a little bit harder in my opinion.
A 2x2x1 is a nice gift for a small child. For you it is too easy

As you know how to solve a normal 3x3x3, you could get a Megaminx or a 2x2x2 or a shape modification of a 3x3x3 (e.g. a Fisher Cube).
You would find a new challenge but probably you will not need any help.

Whenever you have solved a 4x4x4 you could apply your method to any nxnxn Cube, but the step from 3x3x3 to 4x4x4 is not so easy.

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Last edited by Konrad on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:31 am

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am
Wow thanks for all the responses. I'll have to look at some video reviews of those cubes.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:22 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
My suggestions (for now, I may come up with more later) are (in order):

Pyraminx
Gear Cube
Professor Pyraminx

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:57 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:18 am
I would recommend the Pyraminx Crystal. I have never managed to solve a 3*3*3, Megaminx, or Pyraminx, but I have solved a Pyraminx Crystal without any help.

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I pledge allegiance to the whole of humanity, and to the world in which we live: one people under the heavens, indivisible, with Liberty and Equality for all.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Hi Moqee.

Don't get too hung about learning lots of algorithms - they do come quite quickly and once you have a few basic ones then you can apply them to a lot of other puzzles. I reckon I have 12-14 in total and with these I have solved about 35 twisties in the last 3 months. In fact you can solve a whole lotta puzzles knowing just 2 algorithms - YES JUST 2!!
If you are really interested then go to rline's site - here he explains with hundreds of videos how to apply these 2 easy to remember algorithms to many different puzzles. This is not for speed cubing, you need a goodly amount of thought and preparation to do it but I find that this technique gives tremendous satisfaction. I always make sure that I can solve each puzzle in multiple ways - both mine and rline's at the very least, this is VERY rewarding. Go to his site - YOU WON'T REGRET IT!

If you insist on puzzles that you can solve intuitively without algorithms then (in ascending order of difficulty) I would suggest:

Pyraminx
Gear cube (original - NOT extreme)
Skewb
Dino cube
Rex cube

BUT if you have the skills to solve a 3x3 then try to extend them to a 3x3 supercube (i.e. where orientation matters) and then you can move to the 3x3 mods - they are just 3x3 puzzles but they shape shift and because of the need to change your orientation/viewpoint they can really mess with your head.

I would suggest:

Fisher cube (or variant)
Master pyramorphinx
Case cube
Hexagonal dipyramid
Morphegg
Rhombohedron
Axis cube
etc etc etc

EDIT:

Oh! I forgot and have come back to add:

If you can do a 3x3 then your next logical step is a 4x4 (get a good quality one!) - one way it can be solved is to reduce it to an oddly shaped 3x3 and solve from there. Now you will encounter PARITY and I have to say that things really get fun now - you can again use rline's approach without new algorithms or there is a new thing to learn.

As a mechanical puzzle addict who is new to twisties, I have to say this is soo much fun and the learning curve isn't too hard. I doubt I will become a TP savant like Burgo or Konrad but I live in hope.

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Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:02 pm

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the info and referring me to this website I just received a 4x4x4 lanlan tiled cube today. It doesn't seem like it's hard. Surprisingly, I almost have it figured out. Although, it doesn't cut very well. For some reason I've been wanting to get my hands on the tuttminx. It looks like a quality puzzle. Maybe I should start with a megaminx. A lot of the shapeways puzzles look nice but are out of my price range. I wish more of those were mass produced.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:00 am

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
moqee wrote:
It doesn't seem like it's hard. Surprisingly, I almost have it figured out.

The "almost figured it out" may mean you have come across one of the parity problems! This can be quite a challenge to solve the first few times you come across it. One or two of the algorithms for dealing with it are pretty ugly! I have a very nice and pretty easy to remember algorithm for the single edge flip but some are awful!!!

moqee wrote:

This is a reasonable choice - it certainly looks impressive on the shelf but it is really not much different from a 3x3 - you may be disappointed in the lack of anything new.

moqee wrote:
A lot of the shapeways puzzles look nice but are out of my price range. I wish more of those were mass produced.

Don't we all!!!
Seriously though, you really DON'T need to look at shapeways puzzles anytime soon. These are serious puzzles for really serious solvers/collectors. Most are not a trivial challenge requiring minimal or no algorithms. Just look at Calvin's HKNowstore and you will see that there are dozens and dozens of puzzles to keep you occupied at very reasonable non-bank-breaking prices - I have about 37 so far and still have lots of mass produced puzzles I still want to buy.

Remember you did start this conversation asking for puzzles NOT requiring many algorithms.

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Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:03 am

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am
Quote:
These are serious puzzles for really serious solvers/collectors. Most are not a trivial challenge requiring minimal or no algorithms.

Come on now Kevin I think I've proven I'm serious. When I'm trying to solve a puzzle I always make sure that I make a very serious face. Kind of like this If that isn't hardcore then I don't know what is

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:36 am

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Littleton CO
I know I already posted here but I’m going to add something
(By the way these are all corner turning, I like corner turners)
Pyraminx(Could technically be face turning): Pretty simple but a fun puzzle
Dino: About the same challenge level as pyraminx but I like it more, it’s classic
Mosaic cube: More challenging but also more fun, my favorite
Dino dodec: Not that difficult, but it can be tedious to solve, similar steps over and over
Skewb: My second favorite, not too challenging but another great classic puzzle

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:40 am

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:02 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
I know it has already been said but a Dino cube is definately good to start with after you have done a 3x3, also its not much of a twisty puzzle but maybe a Rubik's Clock? If you can find an original with box like I have then it could also be worth something later down the line? Apart from that I went straight onto Gigaminx for some reason but still managed it

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Uh Oh I solved it again.....
PB:
3x3:27.34
4x4: 2:21
Rubiks Clock: 23sec
Floppy Cube: 4.5sec
2x2: 8.64sec (single)
2x2: 11.78(Average of 5)
Magic-0.91 (Single)

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:59 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: PA
Definitely go for the Pyraminx Crystal and the Professor Pyraminx if you want challenging but intuitive puzzles. They are my absolute favorite puzzles to solve, and the only algorithms required (if they can be called that) are relatively straightforward. The Pyraminx Crystal is easy to figure out if you can do a Megaminx and a Pyraminx. The Professor Pyraminx I've only solved a few times, but differently each time. It's fun to apply different solving techniques for the same puzzle

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:25 am

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am
The Professor Pyraminx does look cool. I might try that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:35 pm

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:18 am
Quirky-Cubes wrote:
The Pyraminx Crystal is easy to figure out if you can do a Megaminx and a Pyraminx.

Is it weird that I have solved a Pyraminx Crystal unassisted, but have never solved a Megaminx or Pyraminx?

_________________
Just so you know, I am blind.

I pledge allegiance to the whole of humanity, and to the world in which we live: one people under the heavens, indivisible, with Liberty and Equality for all.

My Shapeways Shop

Last edited by Jeffery Mewtamer on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:54 am
When I was a kid, the first mechanical piece movement puzzle that I could solve was a 15 puzzle that was a prize in some breakfast cereal. That's the one that is a square containing 15 numbered tiles that you slide around. Later came the Pyraminx that so many others mentioned. Then was Missing Link and the easier cylinder puzzles with sliding tiles or marbles. The Orb or Orb-it puzzle was an unusual sliding piece variation that was more difficult than the cylinders but was eventually figured out by me when I was a teen, and in the satisfying zone of being not too fast to solve and also needing no solution guide or no having to take notes while trying moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:45 pm

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 pm
moqee wrote:
Hi guys,

I solved my first rubik's cube the other day and I decided to continue collecting more cubes. I received an Illusion 7 V-Cube for my birthday. I have to say that I really liked that cube because I didn't need to memorize algorithms. I was wondering if the community could recommend some puzzles that are more intuitive based than algorithmic. I don't mind a few algorithms. Thanks.

Well, if you can solve the normal 3x3x3 Rubik, then try Bump Cube where you need to place the pieces according to the shapes. Each shape is different so it's not too difficult. No parity issues you need to deal with.

Bump Cube

If you can solve the Bump Cube, try the Stickered Cube, my favorite is Maze Stickered Cube. Here, you'll encounter a parity issue which you can only solve it by intuitiveness, no algos to learn.

Maze Stickered Cube

After the Maze Stickered Cube, then try Yellow Star Cube. Here you'll encounter a serious parity issue as there are several pieces which are identical to one another. Only your intuitiveness on the placements of the pieces can make you solve it. Should be easy to some people as the middle pieces are the same.

Yellow Star Cube

My all-time favorite is the Egg-shaped 3x3x3. The middle pieces are different. There are parity issues in this puzzles only solved by intuitiveness, no new algos to learn.

Yellow Star

ALL the puzzles above are 3x3x3 mod ! They are available & easy to get & pretty cheap too !
Good luck !

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
cocteau wrote:
My all-time favorite is the Egg-shaped 3x3x3. The middle pieces are different. There are parity issues in this puzzles only solved by intuitiveness, no new algos to learn.

I agree with these. I have just solved a patterned morphegg and a solid colour one. It is a really nice challenge because the shape shifting messes with your head a bit but eminently solve able to anyone who can do a 3x3 supercube.

cocteau wrote:
There are parity issues in this puzzles only solved by intuitiveness, no new algos to learn.

This is a sort of misleading statement - a true parity occurs when we reduce an even order puzzle to an odd one to solve. With the 3x3 mods this isn't true parity. SuperAntonioVivaldi on YouTube calls it a parity of "false equivocation" - i.e. it occurs because a piece that looks the same has been placed in the wrong position. This sort of parity is solved by replacing the incorrectly placed piece. It does add to the spice a bit!!  :D

The ultimate 3x3 mod seems to be the ghost cube -  all pieces are slightly different shapes but 2 faces have been skewed. It still solves like a 3x3 but every layer needs to be solved in isolation!
I don't have one but I really want one!

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:03 pm

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 pm
This is a sort of misleading statement - a true parity occurs when we reduce an even order puzzle to an odd one to solve. With the 3x3 mods this isn't true parity. SuperAntonioVivaldi on YouTube calls it a parity of "false equivocation" - i.e. it occurs because a piece that looks the same has been placed in the wrong position. This sort of parity is solved by replacing the incorrectly placed piece. It does add to the spice a bit!!  :D

Yes, kudos to John (superantonio...) for telling the whole world "A parity of "false equivocation", but it's still a parity, no ??

The ultimate 3x3 mod seems to be the ghost cube -  all pieces are slightly different shapes but 2 faces have been skewed. It still solves like a 3x3 but every layer needs to be solved in isolation!
I don't have one but I really want one!

Though I love the look of the Ghost Cube (black & white & skewed...& my favorite cube at the mo) the egg-shaped 3x3x3 above is still my best !

If you can solve these Heart-shaped 3x3x3 mod (photo below). You'll realize it's easy to solve the Ghost Cube by placing ALL the middle pieces correctly (I do this intuitively). If you do this even before completing the first layer, you'll avoid the so-called "A parity of "false equivocation".Seriously, there no parity issue in solving the Ghost Cube ! It's the same in solving the Bump Cube
Different people have different approach in solving it, I guess.
Then, solving the 2nd layer & the 3rd layer will be briskly easy...just like what I always do solving these Heart-Shaped 3x3x3 ! (They do look very campy !!!!!!...Maybe that's why not many people have them.)

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 Post subject: Re: Intuitive twistiesPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:02 am

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
cocteau wrote:
There are parity issues in this puzzles only solved by intuitiveness, no new algos to learn.

With the 3x3 mods this isn't true parity. SuperAntonioVivaldi on YouTube calls it a parity of "false equivocation" - i.e. it occurs because a piece that looks the same has been placed in the wrong position. This sort of parity is solved by replacing the incorrectly placed piece. It does add to the spice a bit!!  :D/quote]
Well I agree and disagree at the same time.

As it seems you know, whenever you have duplicate pieces you can use only even cycles (3-cycles for example) but wind up in a position that looks like an odd cycle (two pieces swapped).

When this happens due to identical colors I tend not to think of this as a parity. When it happens due to duplicate pieces I usually do think of it as parity.

But that's not my gripe My gripe is with:
This is a sort of misleading statement - a true parity occurs when we reduce an even order puzzle to an odd one to solve.

Yes, this is one situation in which a parity can occur. I usually call it a "parity in the formed groups" or "parity in the reduction". It is only parity in the groups, it isn't a parity in individual pieces. That can happen too (two 4x4x4 edge-wings for example).

You can also have a parity in two orbits (each orbit has a parity but the overall puzzle does not). (UF UR)x3 on a Helicopter cube is an example of this.

Also, the term parity is only concerned with the permutation. Is it even or is it odd. This binary term is often not enough flexible enough to handle issues with twisted pieces. For example, on a vertex-turning-dodecahedron you can have a single corner twisted. Tracking the overall twist of pieces is often modulo 3 or modulo 5 rather than the modulo 2 that "parity" covers.

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