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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:45 am 
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Andrea

This is really well thought out! I like it a lot. I tried it on a rubik's cube and on a jupiter (same up face "0" and right and front "1") and I can see what it's doing.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:00 am 
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Hi Andrea,

I was right with what you were doing, the U turn in your Sune is making the 3cycle on U look like a swap. I have solved the cube by doing a straight Jupiter reduction and applying what I presumed you were doing today. I would have done something like:
F' L' R
y2 RUR'URU2R' y2
F R2 F' R'
y' RUR'URU2R'
This is just using the 3cycle `as it is`, and not being concerned with preserving the state.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:22 am 
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Hi rline,

I made a video about this steps. Solving the last 5 edges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv2y5KYcbSE&feature=channel

Burgo, I tried your sequence. Thank you for sharing this.
After doing this, may cube was scrambled. I tried it on a second solved cube.
What is the base position from your cube ? Which face is bandaged?

rline:
I hope that the video is understandable and it shows the solution of edges.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Burgo, I tried your sequence. Thank you for sharing this.
After doing this, may cube was scrambled.
Yes, the cube (edges) will be scrambled, but `reduced`. I was not concerned for preserving the solved state of the edges.

I have started with the exact same pieces and positions as you, in your diagrams. I have then `flipped by permutation` the same order of pieces you have with Sunes (the Sunes are flipping, the rest is just setups), Blue/Yellow & Blue/Red then Yellow/Red & Yellow/Blue (the difference is I have used a `dormant` edge `of the same colour on U` in the 180* permutation).

I have done what you have done, just with a slightly different format. Our examples are for the difficult state where the edges that need to be `flipped by permutation` twist to the 0 face with the common colour on U `in the 180* opposite position` (thus a Sune will `flip` 1 and `flip` the dormant edge). In this situation we must use the clever trick of using the other edge with `both shared colours`, flipping `it` twice. In situations where the 2 edges twist to the 0 face with the shared colour on U `90* adjacent`, the dormant edge will not be flipped with the Sune, and only one Sune is needed, and it it more straightforward.

I had fun solving it this way, thanks for sharing your method. What was your opinion of my latest edge reduction method?
Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:53 am 
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Hi Burgo,
Quote:
Yes, the cube (edges) will be scrambled, but `reduced`. I was not concerned for preserving the solved state of the edges.


Ok.

Quote:
What was your opinion of my latest edge reduction method?


I watched to your video more times. Now I understand it. Nice idea. Because you turn the 2 bandaged faces only 180 degrees never a outer edge will be flipped. Your 3 cycle of inner edges is very interesting !
Great work. I think flipping of edges is not a great problem. Not the outer edges are the problem. The inner edges are difficult.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:56 am 
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Hi Crazy friends and dear neighbours in Crazy Village,
there is a lot of new life on Crazy Village's Main Street, recently! :)
(I'm back after a few days of skiing with limited Internet access.)

@Andrea: Thank you for sharing your "trick" for edge flipping. Very clever! :D
Your move sequence became clear by your pictures.
When you do it on a solved Saturn (standard colour scheme: white and yellow are unbandaged) it becomes clear how important the setup of inner edges is. My following picture shows that the six involved inner edges perform two 3-cycles:
Image

My real problem when I read your first post about your "trick" earlier was indeed the term `inverted Sune`.
My eyes read this and my brain immediately translated it to Antisune which is R U2 R' U' R U' R'.
My brain missed completely the U' at the end.
These are the dangerous automatisms, if something is so well known to us.
About the name Sune:
Speedsolving wrote:
Speedsolving
The term Sune; (soon-ay), was coined by Lars Petrus for his method, and is the most widely recognized name for the sequence of moves and the case. Sune is a male name in Sweden and is a iron age form for 'the son', in modern Swedish that is 'sonen'.
The inverse alg/case is named Antisune (or Anti Sune).
Sune is a 2-gen algorithm that affects the last layer of a Rubik's Cube, and can be applied to other puzzles.
The Sune is most canonically written as R U R' U R U2 R'
Maybe something like `inverted Sune extended` would have avoided my mistake.

@Burgo: I watched your video and I like your revised edge reducing a lot. :D It will take some training to get fluent with this method and avoid too early 3-cycles. I had looked at your 3-cycles many months ago, but it fits better with your new method.
When I solved Saturn the last time before this revival, I used the principles of your earlier reduction tutorial, but used Julians method for the last layer edges. Now, your new edge reduction may become my standard.

@rline: I would call everything I have used so far for `reducing the edges` rightfully a reduction method. Using Julian's method does not break anything that is finished already. In my view, reduction is completed only when all edges are reduced `in situ` and flipped correctly.
I recollect that you have solved Saturn using the `Ultimate solution`. How did you solve the last layer?

@all: I think it was quite refreshing to revisit ol' Saturn after such a long time (at least for me it was a long time. :wink:

How many different Saturn methods do I count now?
1. Edges
a. My own pretty tricky last layer (= 1 face) method
b. last 1 layer by Julian's method (first cross; flip outer edges)
c. Burgo's first method (I do not recollect the details, but I think it was similarly tricky as mine)
d. Burgo's inner edge 3-cycle
e. general edge reduction without caring for correct location and orientation first and flipping edges in the `end game` like Andrea.
f. Burgo's new edge reduction
2. Corners
a. Cycle Corners last (CCL)
b. reduction and never turn the unbandaged faces again

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:16 am 
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Hi Konrad

Welcome back! Was wondering where you were. :)

Quote:
I recollect that you have solved Saturn using the `Ultimate solution`. How did you solve the last layer?

When I first solved it (months ago), I only knew CCL methods, and so I found that inner edge 3-cycle. Which meant I solved all outer edges first, then all inner edges, then outer corners, then circle corners. As should be obvious now, I've recently gone through and revisited all the planet cubes using reduction methods. Saturn is the only one which tripped me, thus my initial post a week or so ago.

My method now is to pair all inner and outer edges, then place as many of these paired edges as possible. Occasionally they all place fine. Normally, I need to either flip the last two placed edges, or else swap the last two edges. So I've now taken to cycling home the correct outer edges and then using my 3-cycle to finish off the inner edges. Would you say that still fits into the "reduction" scheme of things? Burgo thought I was being a little pedantic ( :wink: ) in asking, but it was a genuine question.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:40 am 
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rline wrote:
...Would you say that still fits into the "reduction" scheme of things?....
I agree with Burgo that everything that transforms a complex puzzle to an easier / known puzzle can be called rightfully `reduction`.
Regarding the Crazy planets, in most cases corner reduction can avoid tedious CCL cycles. So this is to me the essential part.
Andrea has pointed out that Mercury and Venus are the only one that need edge with Cycle Corners reduction - and turning of 0 faces only after reduction.
Edge reduction is for me visually harder.
Some allow both corner or edge reduction. Earth is the extrmest allowing corner reduction with two 1 faces only. Andrea has described in one of her videos a very creative approach for this. I admire this very much. :)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Hi Konrad,
Welcome back from the sports. Thank you for the feed back.
The flair of crazy series is the reduction method, I think.

Your description of sune. Ok, this was defined from Lars Petrus. I associate "sune" with the technique to bring one piece out of one layer and insert it after a move. Antisune = reverse sune, I thought.
(R U R' U R U2' R' =sune) in this way the sune works on megaminx, fts,fto and tetrahedron, too.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
I think it was quite refreshing to revisit ol' Saturn after such a long time (at least for me it was a long time).. How many different Saturn methods do I count now?
I agree, it was nice to look at it with fresh eyes.

This is something I put together using Andrea’s clever suggestion to use a Sune Permutation to `flip 2 edges` during edge reduction for Saturn:

3X3 Saturn (Sune Edge Flipping Reduction)
http://youtu.be/i42Ibu2Vgd4

Andrea wrote:
(R U R' U R U2' R' =sune) in this way the sune works on megaminx, fts ,fto and tetrahedron, too.
Yes, a Sune works with more or less `side faces` I think of it like this:
RU R'U R U R' = 3 side faces (this is actually the fundamental one).
RU R'U R U2 R' = 4 side faces
RU R'U R U3 R' = 5 side faces etc (this is the same as yours too).
In fact the double twists can be inserted differently to make new cases.
It's nice to have Konrad's knowledge to tell us the origins. Because of it's possible variations I write it out most times, especially if it matters.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:23 am 
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Hi Burgo,

very interesting solution. Thank you for the new video. Flip all edges with the "sune trick".
Oh, I used it only for the last edges.

Perhaps your solution is more easy than mine. I prefer solutions with areas that are together. ( my videos Earth/ Saturn) I cannot explain it with my poor english. I prefer solutions by example layer by layer or similar.
The reason is, to do it on megaminxes. Advantage is that for the last pieces it's not necessary to do many setup moves.
It's a nice job to find the easiest solution for a puzzle!

My solution needs one unbandaged face on top and front and right are bandaged.
This is given on earth,mars,saturn, neptune. So , I can solve all these puzzles in the same way.

Are your strategie adaptable for other cubes ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:53 am 
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Andrea wrote:
My solution needs one unbandaged face on top and front and right are bandaged. This is given on earth,mars,saturn, neptune. So , I can solve all these puzzles in the same way. Are your strategie adaptable for other cubes ?
I tried it on Mars today and (as expected) there was not problem using it.. I'm not sure if I found it easier than just building the edges in place, but it was a good way for the Mars edges. I think with the new methods for Saturn I might change my difficulty rating as Mars being more difficult, but the amount of methods we have made for Saturn attests to its difficulty.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Hi Friends,

I have been wanting to do this one for a while: I have made a video of Andrea’s method for reducing the corners of the Earth 3x3 to a Rubiks Cube rather than reducing to a circle cube. It is such an interesting method that I wanted to make sure it was accessible to a wide audience and make it easily understandable.

Andrea’s Earth 3x3 Corner Reduction (Reduction to Rubiks Cube)
http://youtu.be/-wlUczIyt_o

Because only 2 faces are bandaged it is necessarily a combination method (like Neptune) that utilizes aspects of Circle Cube Reduction in the edge reduction and in some Circle Corners. It’s interesting that you are actually required to solve edges as a Circle Cube and then re-solve them as a Rubiks Cube. It is generally more efficient to reduce to a Rubiks Cube where possible.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Hi "Crazy" friends,

I'm solving the circle pentahedra using Andrea's simulator. I wonder who else is trying to solve them.

So far I've done Jupitar, Uranus (these two are not "crazy" since all circles are type 0), Mercury and Saturn.

Things are getting complicated for Saturn. The text input is great and easy to use.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Hi Schuma,

I have holidays at the moment so it is unfortunate timing for the physical puzzles, they will probably arrive when I return to work :roll: . I agree, it's great to have Andrea's simulator to play with. Nice that it takes into account shape shifting, like Bo Hu does with Bermudas. The text imput is really good for developing sequences, which was its intention, and I have been finding a few sequences with it, but haven't tried to solve a scrambled cube yet.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Hi schuma

I have been playing with it basically every waking moment, often going to bed far too late.

So far I've done the standard 3, standard 5, super 5 (all very simple), then mercury, jupiter and uranus, which are a little harder. Last night I solved saturn (after hours of thinking) but I don't like the method yet. I'm thinking of a different way now. I've "just about" solved earth and venus - more time needed.

I've found some sequences which move top edges, middle edges and corners (inner, outer and both) but you're right, things start getting difficult to remember with saturn onwards. Like Burgo, I wish the physical puzzles were here, but I've been having a ball with Andrea's simulator (thanks again Andrea :D ).

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:12 am 
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I've just solved all of the 11 pentahedra on Andrea's simulator. Interestingly, the last one I solved was the 5-layer puzzle with circles. Somehow I didn't notice it was included in the simulator.

I think the difficulties of the eight planets are pretty consistent with their appearance, depending on how many circles they have, and how many circles are of different types.

As before, I'd like to rank the planets from the easiest to the hardest. Again, this is only for me. If you use another strategy you may find the ranking different.

Level 1: Jupiter, Uranus: not "crazy"
Level 2: Mercury, Saturn,
Level 2.5: Venus, Earth (only a little bit harder than Venus). If you prefer reduction, you may find Venus easier than Saturn
Level 3: Neptune, Mars. Not as hard as the Uranus tetrahedron. I basically combine the algorithms for Mercury/Saturn/Venus/Earth. One doesn't have to invent new algorithms given that he/she has solved the those four puzzles.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:27 am 
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schuma wrote:
I've just solved all of the 11 pentahedra on Andrea's simulator

5 or 6 hours ago you'd only solved 4... :shock:

Have you solved each of them once only, or when you say solved, do you mean each one multiple times with a rational workable method?

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:45 am 
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rline, I solve each one once or twice. But I write down the systematic algorithms for each. So I'm pretty sure I can solve it again and again if I have to.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:02 am 
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Hi friends,

I only solved Standard, Jupiter, Uranus , Mercury, and the extremly easy 5 layers.
I tried Venus, but I cannot solve it. :( My reduction methods perhaps not adaptable to the triangle prisms because it's not possible to orientate corners. Because the R L B face can only turn 180 degrees.
I prefer physical puzzles in my hands. :lol: I'm not sure which puzzles are harder, tetrahedrons or pentahedrons.

I only own 2 tetrahedrons (Mars, Jupiter) I want order one more tetrahedron with one face without circles. Because this pieces blocks other. Perhaps Uranus or Saturn. Which is harder ?
I want not program a new simulator in next time. Solving puzzles is my hobby, not programing.
Do you order pentahedrons ? Which planets?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:56 am 
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Quote:
I only own 2 tetrahedrons (Mars, Jupiter) I want order one more tetrahedron with one face without circles. Because this pieces blocks other. Perhaps Uranus or Saturn. Which is harder ?

Saturn is quite easy. Uranus is incredibly difficult.

Quote:
Do you order pentahedrons ? Which planets?

I ordered the whole lot. I agree with you that it's more fun with the physical puzzles, but I am having a great time with the simulator.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:57 am 
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Hi Burgo,

Your video.
Burgo wrote:
http://youtu.be/i42Ibu2Vgd4

Well done. Good explanation of my method.

This method is interesting for Crazy Megaminx Earth, too. It doesn't make fun solve 60 circle corners with pairing edges method and difficult setup moves.
My adaption to megaminx it's a very interesting solve. This includes a pairing edges with inner edges system we discussed here in this thread. For last step it's not necessary to do a trick with a solved piece in a layer. On megaminx it's possible to exchange clean corners and edges with only move two faces.The Megaminx Earth is the hardest, I think.

Cheers,
Andrea

(edit) the crazy meg Earth method is based on the crazy cube Earth method but different because the first bandaged faces ( blue / white) I solve it complete.
Pairing edges and corners together.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:52 am 
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Andrea wrote:
Well done. Good explanation of my method.
Thanks, and thanks for sharing it. I would count a `like` for it as a like for your method :wink: .

Since uploading the video I have re-thought how I might explain the corner swap better with known sequences and it would go something like:
[Bandaged U&R]:
U (R2 U2)X3 U [L]
(Z’) (L2 U’ L2 U L2) [D2]
(Y2) U’ (R2 U R2 U’ R2) D (Z’+Y2)
This proceedure would also maintain the orientation of the `white` LL corners allowing for just edge exchanges to finish the solve from there.

I haven't tried it on the megaminx, but I think I am happy pairing my 60 CCs to edges :) . With the megaminx I can often get 2 at once with simple setups (which I do with the cubes too but it's easier with the minx) and the `EPS edge in EPS edge out` doesn't really feel that much more than the `EPS corner in exchange` (because often you need to orientate which costs a few more cycles too). I still want to try it out one day though.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:46 am 
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Andrea wrote:
I only own 2 tetrahedrons (Mars, Jupiter) I want order one more tetrahedron with one face without circles. Because this pieces blocks other. Perhaps Uranus or Saturn. Which is harder ?
My difficulty ranking for the Crazy Tetrahedrons is:
[Earth - Saturn - Venus] These are very easy. The combination of 2 faces on these cubes prevent `proper scrambling` and make the solving easier. Schuma wrote about them: The above three circle puzzles are below the common level of crazy circle puzzles.

[Jupiter - Mars - Mercury] These are the KEY puzzles in the series. I think Mercury is quite difficult by reduction, not overly difficult, but you have to `think` through the solve, I would recommend `that` to you seeing as you don’t have it. All 3 of `these` puzzles are worth owning.

[Neptune - 0012(Pluto)] These 2 are very difficult, I still have to refer to my notes to solve them. Neptune is the more straightforward one, if you must get a puzzle with `2` faces, Neptune would be my recommendation, it is a tough puzzle. I use adapted sequences for Pluto, which is similar in difficulty and solving, but a bit harder (I actually solved it today).

[Uranus]Uranus is probably one of the hardest puzzles I have solved. The bandaging blocks you up severely.

I think Mercury is worth the investment if you want another Tetrahedron. If you need one with `2` faces, I recommend Neptune. Neptune, 0012 and Uranus are all very difficult, and solving them is not a picnic. I would be interested if you wanted to begin solving them to see what you think.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:53 am 
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Thanks for the advices Burgo, rline.

I must decide which puzzles are more interesting. The 446, Pentahedron or Tets.
Or some of each. All together isn't possible, to much money. I like puzzles with circles !


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:22 am 
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Hi "crazy" puzzlers,
My pentahedron prisms and crazy tet uranus arrived.
First impressions. Solve the very easy Jupiter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsGaMdw2Ho&feature=channel&list=UL

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Hi friends,
has someone solved the crazy pentahedron saturn ?
the saturn has 3 circles, one bandaged and the other unbandaged.
It's difficult. I tried pairing edges with triangles.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Hi friends,
has someone solved the crazy pentahedron saturn ?
the saturn has 3 circles, one bandaged and the other unbandaged.
It's difficult. I tried pairing edges with triangles.

Yes. :D

I do this:
1. Reduce middle edges
2. Place (and swap or flip if necessary) middle edges
3. Reduce top edges
4. Place top edges
5. Solve inner corners
6. Solve outer corners

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:11 am 
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Hi rline,

my way is similar. The last two steps. Solve circle corners then solve outer corners.
For clean exchanging corners I know ( R U R U R U' ) x 2

I am not able to solve all circle corners with this sequence.

After solving the most triangles I solved the corners.
This is the result:

Attachment:
saturn.jpg
saturn.jpg [ 48.82 KiB | Viewed 7460 times ]


Had you recieved the pentahedrons ? I had some pops with the center-corners (triangles) But only one piece in the same time.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:46 am 
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Hi Andrea

Quote:
I am not able to solve all circle corners with this sequence.

I assume that to do your sequence you hold saturn with the white face on the right. That seems to cycle 3 corners pure. If you instead try ( R U' R U' R U ) x 2 it will cycle two of the same corners plus a differrent one. That should enable you to get them all. You could also try (U' R U' R U R) x 2.

Alternatively, I use

URU'LURU'L LU URU'LURU'L LU'
and
U'LURU'LUR RU' U'LURU'LUR RU (mirror)

to cycle all the inner corners. I need both of them to do all the inner corners.

A couple of points for my sequences.
1. Hold the puzzle with a face at front, not an edge. Make sure the white face is on the right (back on the sim).
2. You'll recognise the corner piece series from the ultimate solution.
3. To use it in the simulator, change the "R" to "B".
4. They can of course be shortened to URU'LURU'L LU URU'LURU'L LU' U == (URU'LUR)x2 U

Normally I'd use a shorter sequence but it turns the up and down faces, which is no good when doing the inner corners.

Quote:
Had you recieved the pentahedrons ?

No, not yet. All I have is your simulator. :) It's brilliant, but I'm now really hanging out for the real puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:00 pm 
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Hi rline,

thank you for your answer.
The first part of your posting are sequences and variants of clean corner 3 cycle.
I tried with this and setup moves changing groups of triangles.

Your sequence "(URU'LUR)x2 U"
I tried it. I don't understand this sequece.

I 'm desperate with penta saturn.
Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Your sequence "(URU'LUR)x2 U"
I tried it. I don't understand this sequece.

I 'm desperate with penta saturn.

The following assumes that saturn on the simulator is the same as the real puzzle and that the white face is bandaged!

On your simulator, open the saturn pent.
Type "y" to put the white face at back.
Type UBU'LUB UBU'LUB U and enter.

You'll see that it cycles the corner at the UBL to F to DFR.

If you repeat the sequence another two times, the puzzle will be restored, showing it's a 3-cycle.

The sequence only moves one triangle on each corner. The other triangle on each corner does not move.

Now, on your real puzzle, hold saturn with a face (not an edge) at front and the white face on the right. Now do URU'LUR URU'LUR U. You'll see the same thing as in the simulator. The corners changed will be LUB->FUL->FDR.

Perhaps you were trying it holding an edge at front, not a face?

Let me know if this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:07 am 
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Hi rline,

Quote:
Perhaps you were trying it holding an edge at front, not a face?

yes. Now I understand your sequence.
I pasted your sequence into the simulator. This works fine. Nice sequence.
Thank you.
My sequences only permute corners in the white layer. This was the reason that more triangles changed.

I will try your sequences now.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:47 am 
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Hi rline,
Quote:
URU'LURU'L LU URU'LURU'L LU'


good job.

Ok ( URU'L ) is your ultimate solution sequence
how do you found the "L U" ?

(URU'L )x15= identity
URU'L changes many pieces.
respect that you find to insert "L U" in your sequence.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:56 am 
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Andrea wrote:
Hi rline,
Quote:
URU'LURU'L LU URU'LURU'L LU'


good job.

Ok ( URU'L ) is your ultimate solution sequence
how do you found the "L U" ?

(URU'L )x15= identity
URU'L changes many pieces.
respect that you find to insert "L U" in your sequence.

Cheers,
Andrea

Hi Andrea

The short answer is hours and hours of experimenting. The longer answer is...

I'm not exactly sure, but I think that when I did URU'LURU'L, I saw that the left face was unbandaged. So I turned it. Remembering that to get a 3-cycle, I needed a face where only 1 of the piece type - in this case inner corner - was changed. That piece was at the back. So I figured that I should then turn the U face to put another one there. Normally, I would then undo the beginning moves, but in this case I didn't want to. So I did the URU'LURU'L and hoped for the best. At this point, it "looked" close to something nice. I tried undoing LU by doing U'L. But that didn't work. So I did L and then fixed the edges with U'.

To my relief, it made a 3-cycle. I am still waiting for my pents. :(

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:57 am 
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Hi friends from crazy planet,

I solved my crazy pet saturn.

rline: thanks for your tips.

After solving the triangle it's like circle-penta. E.G the relation of triangles to outer edges doesn't destroy.
The next step was permuting the corners without turning the white face.
The easy sequences R U R U R U' permutes the inner edges , too.
No problem. After solving the corners its possible to adjust this with

L D (R U R U R U') x2 D' L

Last step solving the edges:
I use my easy universal sequence ( R U R U') x 5.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:45 am 
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Hi friends,
I solved all 8 crazy pentahedron. The last was Neptune.
The hardest is the Neptune. The second hardest perhaps the Mars.

The sequence from rline U R U' L U R U R U' L U R U is very usefull to pair triangles with edges.

Cheers,
Andrea

What do you think, which are harder pentahedrons, cubes, tetrahedons or megaminx ?


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:39 am 
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Quote:
I solved all 8 crazy pentahedron.

Congratulations!

Quote:
What do you think, which are harder pentahedrons, cubes, tetrahedons or megaminx ?

you should try solving uranus tetrahedron first, and then ask the question. Uranus is as close to impossible as I've come across. I know Burgo and Schuma and someone else on here has solved it. You would be in a very exclusive club if you could solve it.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Hi friends,

I must do without 446 because I hav enough money for all puzzles.

To buy the uranus (0002) was the right decision because it is possible to transform it to a mercury and a 0012 ( what ist it ?) tet. I changed the blue centers betwen the two tets.
I own the mars und jupiter, too. So I can get practice with the mercury. ( 0001)
If I get courage I retransform and I try the uranus.
Does anyone solve the 0012 ?
Is a name known for it ?


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Quote:
Does anyone solve the 0012 ?

Again, Burgo and Schuma have. I have mostly solved it, apart from one annoying bit, something to do with flipping edges. Can't remember exactly.
Quote:
Is a name known for it ?

Burgo christened it Pluto.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:20 pm 
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rline: thanks for the answer.

with my new self made mercury I solved all exclude the outer corners.
I looked to your solution. Your sequence swaps 2x2 corners.
Konrads sequence permute the inner edges, too.
My sequence from mars or jupiter doesn't work.
Is there a sequence that makes a clean 3 cycle of outer corners ?
Or is it necesary to solve this in earlier state ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Hi Andrea,

The inner edges are tied to the orientation of the centers in the Standard Circle Tetrahedron. The corners and the centres both form a core (and a virtual core) like a skewb. When we place the inner edges, they therefore have to be in their correct relationship with the centres (and corners). When that is the case the corners are in a 2+2 swap position. When the corners are in need of a 3cycle: 3 inner edges are actually incorrectly placed (which is the orientation of a centre -relatively). It's best to resolve this earlier. The situation is similar to the Master Skewb.

Some Jupiter, Mercury, Mars Tet methods are on page 7. Uranus, Neptune, Pluto links are on page 8.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:47 am 
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Hi Burgo,
thanks for your explanation. I early state my RU'RURU'RU rotate 3 corners without changing inner edges. Now It works fine. It's the same promblem solving the master skewb.
The crazy tets are very interesting puzzles.
What about your pentahedrons ? Have you recieved it ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:19 am 
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Andrea wrote:
with my new self made mercury I solved all exclude the outer corners...
…Is there a sequence that makes a clean 3 cycle of outer corners ?
Or is it necesary to solve this in earlier state ?
Hi Andrea,

I’m not sure if I understood what you meant ^^. I thought you wanted to cycle the corners but not disrupt the CCs (which would need to be completed by twisting only unbandaged faces). If that was the case you would need to cycle the corners earlier because (RURU’)X2 or (RU’RU)X2, or however you want to apply it, is a type of parity fix. And it is applied with the bandaged face as U on Mercury. To apply it like this (twisting the bandage face) will disrupt CCs from outer edges.

If you fix the parity of the puzzle before CCs are attached the parity will remain the same while the CCs are being attached and the corners will be solvable with a 2+2 swap. You can put the puzzle into the correct parity as the first step in the solve if you like, but it is also possible to use the parity change later (any time before the CCs are attached to outer edges).

Andrea wrote:
I early state my RU'RURU'RU rotate 3 corners without changing inner edges. Now It works fine.
This is a [Sune U] and it changes the parity of the puzzle.
I initially expressed it as: [R’URU’ RUR U’R’] it is written about on page 7.
Konrad expressed it better by: RURU’ RURU’ which is the same as R[R’URU’ RUR U’R’] so I changed my `method post` to match.

But really it is just a [Sune U]: [Unbandaged U, Bandaged R] [(RU R’U RU R’)U].
First we rotate 3 edges around the U face, and then a U turn changes the parity of the U face by putting 4 twists into a face that has 3 sides (effectively rotating the 3 corners). That’s why the inner edges move on the Circle Tetrahedron (because the parity of the U face has changed. Normally we associate parity with complicated changes, but in my understanding, this is still a parity change. (notice that a Sune U is also a parity fix for the Master Skewb).

After all that.. sorry for the long explanation, I think you did not care about displacing CCs?
I have received the 8 Pentahedron Planets but I have not had the spare time to solve them.
Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:44 am 
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Hi Burgo,

Burgo wrote:
I’m not sure if I understood what you meant
.

I reconfigured the mercury back to mars, so I must remember.
First step : solve the circle edges.
Second step: solve the corners temporary, so the next step dosn't make the parity because the corners have not the bad relation to the circle edges.

My sequence RU'RURU'RU doesn't change the inner circles if the "R" face is unbandaged.
The outer edges changes, but it doesn't matter because I solve it in the next step and solving edges doesn't change the parity.

After that I change circlecorners with rline's sequences. It's to difficult for me to solve it like crazy cube mercury.

Because my bad english ( or googles translator is to bad) I cannot exactly understand about your paritiy fix on tet mercury or master skewb.
If I unterstand your text, I think we do similar things. I solved the corners on master skewb , and after that the corners can not permuted but not in the parity situation.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:41 pm 
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rline wrote:
you should try solving uranus tetrahedron first, and then ask the question. Uranus is as close to impossible as I've come across. I know Burgo and Schuma and someone else on here has solved it. You would be in a very exclusive club if you could solve it.


Perhaps this club is closed for me.

Do you solved the tet uranus ?

I have no idea, how to solve it. I tried find sequences with Bo Hu simulator.
I didn't found sequences. After some moves the tetrahedron is blocked.
I thought it's similar to witeden super 3x3x3, but is incredible harder.
Has someone hints to this puzzle ?


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
rline wrote:
you should try solving uranus tetrahedron first, and then ask the question. Uranus is as close to impossible as I've come across. I know Burgo and Schuma and someone else on here has solved it. You would be in a very exclusive club if you could solve it.


Perhaps this club is closed for me.

Do you solved the tet uranus ?

I have no idea, how to solve it. I tried find sequences with Bo Hu simulator.
I didn't found sequences. After some moves the tetrahedron is blocked.
I thought it's similar to witeden super 3x3x3, but is incredible harder.
Has someone hints to this puzzle ?

If you're asking me, then definitely not! I tried for hours to find sequences and I did find some, but they all required the orange colour of the corner to be in certain positions.

Somewhere further back in this thread, Burgo posted his solutions. From memory he's the only one who posted a solution on this thread. I've used his solution to solve it and it works (of course!) but it's way way beyond anything I want to or am able to remember. I think he'd be the first to admit that uranus is up there with the hardest puzzles available.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Sorry Guys (and Andrea!! :oops: ) for interrupting your in depth and completely incomprehensible discourse. :lol:

I am hoping that my 2 Crazy 3x3 plus cubes arrive soon (they seem to have been very delayed in the post!)
I bought a pair which can be turned into the whole series.

My question is:
Can you list the order which you think I should attempt them (obviously from easiest to hardest)? I would not want to get disheartened too soon by starting with one that is too tough! I expect that I will probably solve (at least initially) by reduction to a 3x3.

Also for those of you with the Pents - do you think it is worthwhile buying one, some (if so which ones?) or even all?

Thanks for your help as always.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Quote:
Can you list the order which you think I should attempt them (obviously from easiest to hardest)?

You can reduce some to a rubik's cube, others to a circle cube. Probably something like

Jupiter (RC) Uranus (RC) Mercury (CC) Earth (CC) Neptune (RC) Mars (CC) Venus (CC) ..................... Saturn (RC)

This is obviously my list and others will think differently I'm sure.

Quote:
Also for those of you with the Pents - do you think it is worthwhile buying one, some (if so which ones?) or even all?

Yes, some. I would buy uranus (which gives you another 3 for that price), neptune (which gives you another 3 for that price) and saturn (which gives you venus). I'm really not sure mercury and jupiter are worth their price. :(

[bmenrigh talked in the pentahedron thread about how the side centers can be swapped to make different variants]

Having said that, they are very nice looking puzzles and there are definitely some challenges among the others.

The standard 3, 5 and super 5 are pretty easy too.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Circle Cubes and Megaminx - e.g. Dayan's Cr
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:10 am 
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Hi Kevin,
Puzzlemad wrote:
Can you list the order which you think I should attempt them (obviously from easiest to hardest)?


Long answer:
An idea with sense is to solve the 8 planet cubes in that order, that the techniques on one cube is adaptable to the next cube.

Easiest cube is Jupiter.
So begin with Jupiter. You learn reduction, pair outer with inner edges and pair inner with outer corners.
So it makes sense solve all cubes with corner triangle reduction.
Next Uranus ( solve only one complete edge) then like Jupiter.
Then Neptune. Neptune is a little bit harder than Uranus. You must build a comlete 2x2x2 block.

The next Saturn Mars and Earth.

Earth is solveable with Edge-reduction, too.
Mercury and Venus you cannot solve it with corner reduction.
Mercury is easier than Venus.

This is my individual opinion.
Much fun with the cubes. The cubes are the best crazy puzzles, I think.

short answer
Start with Jupiter


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