Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:08 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

Shapeways vs. Hand-Made
Shapeways or any other 3-d printing 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
Molds (injection or other) 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
Factory-made modifacation 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
100% hand made 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
CNN cutting 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Mass produced puzzles 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
Other ( if so, plese leave coment on what to add to list) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 11
Author Message
 Post subject: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:56 pm
Location: Chicago,
Here's an interesting question that hasn't been posted yet: what do you think is better building method, shapeways or hand-makeing puzzles? I think hand-makeing is better for on-the-spot creativity, but is useless without the right parts or know-how. Shapeways can be good to make puzzles that could never be hand made, but is just so expensive. What do you think, and why?

EDIT: added more options. Please post if one you think of is not on here.

EDIT: Changing the poll a little. Insted of just comparing the making of puzzles, compare quality, price, dificulty, and wheather or not it is easily obtainable. (Probobly just killed hand-mades right there :twisted: ) No one seems to be able to decide on my first question.

_________________
Nobody gets all that they want, and that is perfect.


Last edited by RubiksMaster614 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:58 pm
Location: Louisiana, US
I think hand building is a nice way to mod existing puzzles (example, insert 3x3x3 shape mod here), but nobody can build a petaminx entirely by hand. Even the cast version was made from printed masters. Shapeways is what made the exotic gemoetries possible.

Granted, I've made a handful of mods myself, which can be fun but building new mechanisms from scratch is truly a laborious process. Just try building a wooden Rubik's Cube like Erno Rubik did! I must admit, I know little about designing puzzles in CAD, and the WSF material is not as smooth as casted pieces, but the possibilities for printed puzzles are literally endless, so regrettably I voted for Shapeways...

_________________
My Creepy 3D Rubik's Cube Video
cisco wrote:
Yeah, Uwe is Dalai Lama and Paganotis is mother Teresa of Calcutta.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 am
As if to spite Tony Fisher and all other hand builders for their hard work...

See, both are equally valid. Shapeways allows for more complex, more intricate puzzles, with complicated mechanisms, but hand crafting is brilliant in its own right. They may not be the best turning (though often, they are), but it takes significant skill to build them. Perhaps I have a deeper appreciation for it, not being able to hand-craft a folded piece of paper, and a more thorough respect for those who can, but nevertheless, to reiterate, I believe both are equally valid. They are, in essence, mutually independent crafts.

_________________
--Noah

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Canada
NType3 wrote:
They are, in essence, mutually independent crafts.


I completely agree.
As someone who has done both, I can say that it may be hard to learn how to use CAD software, but making things by hand takes a lot of practise, care and skill.
There are amazing puzzles that come from both sides, I don't think they should be compared.
One of my all-time favourites is handmade- this- but puzzles that could never be made by hand are printed for many.

Those are some of my reasons why I simply can't vote! :)

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:38 pm
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Shapeways can bring efficiency when you've already modelled on a PC.
But not all my models I'd dare to build via Shapeways; could you imagine this ordered from Shapeways? :lol:

So, it depends.

_________________
Maybe I'm amazed... Mfave's puzzle shop | Burgh Lock trick-lock, Splinter's amazing Shapeways shop, my E-book, maze overview page (Dutch)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
I am very much a "hands on" sort of person, and I really enjoyed doing the hands mods I have done. There's something about cutting, sanding, gluing, polishing and ending up with what could be a mass-produced puzzle that it very satisfying. But ...

I am also a great fan of technology, and there's something about using 3D CAD software, working out geometries and angles, fixing "bugs" and getting it 3D printed that is very satisfying.

So, I cannot vote one way or the other. It's just horses for courses in my opinion.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Gus wrote:
...
So, I cannot vote one way or the other. It's just horses for courses in my opinion.
Same for me! I have not voted either. And handmade is not equal handmade either. I really hate bubbling stickers on expensive casted puzzles and will NEVER buy again a casted puzzle. I like the weight and the smoothness of the material, though.
If somebody would be able to make decent tiles out of Cubesmith material, I would see it differently.
Shapeways WSF is grainy and makes noises, but I still prefer it over casted versions. And as others have pointed out, some puzzles would just not be possible without 3D printing.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Last edited by Konrad on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm
While I fully appreciate the skill and craft of people like Tony, Chino, Heiowge, Traiphum and others in making individual and beautiful puzzles by hand, I will always prefer the exotic new mechanisms that one can churn out with great speed and accuracy of 3D printing. Maybe it's just my lack of patience to see new ideas made in physical form. :|

And even cost can be lower with 3D printing, once you factor in the time required to build a good quality puzzle by hand...

On the other hand, I actually enjoy the process of making puzzles by hand more, so as a personal hobby I would choose that over sitting in front of a PC - he says, while posting his message on TP.com! :lol:

So if I was being selfish, I would prefer to make my own puzzles by hand, and enjoy watching everyone else churn out tons of exotic new ideas with 3D printing. :D

_________________
If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:45 pm
I like the mechanical complexity of puzzles, which is more prevalent with 3d printed puzzles.
However Aleh has made some very nice quite complex puzzle's by hand, and Drewseph also did a lot of handy work in the process of mold making and casting and he made the most complex puzzle ever (chopasaurus). Nothing has ever made my jaw drop as far as seeing how the original pentultimate was made, whilst the process of creating a complex 3d printed puzzle is not easy, but less amazing.

_________________
Inactive.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:23 pm
apples and oranges!

_________________
--Eric Vergo

My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Mississippi
Gus wrote:
I am very much a "hands on" sort of person, and I really enjoyed doing the hands mods I have done. There's something about cutting, sanding, gluing, polishing and ending up with what could be a mass-produced puzzle that it very satisfying. But ...

I am also a great fan of technology, and there's something about using 3D CAD software, working out geometries and angles, fixing "bugs" and getting it 3D printed that is very satisfying.

So, I cannot vote one way or the other. It's just horses for courses in my opinion.


My sentiments exactly. And for the record - cast puzzles don't always have bubble issues on the stickers if you do it right...

_________________
Space for rent


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
jabeck wrote:
... And for the record - cast puzzles don't always have bubble issues on the stickers if you do it right...
Seems to be a very common problem. We even had a special thread about the issue:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17730&p=242783

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Mississippi
Well - I do know it's a problem indeed, but I've had pretty good luck just waiting a LOOONG time before applying stickers, and a light sanding after curing does pretty well. I tend to get more problems from uneven sanding, and slight bumps or holes in the plastic from curing issues... Still nothing beats the feeling of hand making a puzzle for me though. Apples and oranges indeed.

_________________
Space for rent


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:03 pm
RubiksMaster614 wrote:
Shapeways can be good to make puzzles that could never be hand made, but is just so expensive. What do you think, and why?
Obviously, I am going to vote Shapeways. Hand making is only cheaper when you do not count or charge man hours. Even if you would charge a minimum hourly wage, Shapeways is already cheaper. And 3D-printing offers much more versatility than hand-making: gears, fudging, ...

Having that said, I have a huge respect for the puzzles by Tony Fisher and other TP artists who create some master pieces by hand. Even though Shapeways is cheaper, ultimately there may be more collector's value in those unique hand-made treasures.

Oskar

_________________
Oskar's home page, YouTube, Shapeways Shop, Puzzlemaster, and fan club
Image.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
I am big headed enough to state that many of my puzzles move better and far smoother than any Shapeways puzzle. My 3x3x4 medium cuboid, Medium Container and Skewb Rhombic Dodecahedron to name a few.
Now the problem with my statement is that it's not the hand made aspect that makes them move well, it's the factory made part of the puzzles. What we (I) call hand made is usually at least 90% factory made.
So the handmade puzzles are disqualified for cheating and Shapeways wins by default.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
RubiksMaster614 wrote:
what do you think is better building method, shapeways or hand-makeing puzzles?
... What do you think, and why?
Well I depends on if you want better for the builder, better for the final puzzle, better for the collector. You also haven't included all the possible means of making twisty puzzles. You list hand made. Instead of Shapeways I'd say 3D printing. There is also injection molding. And you could have a CNC machine cut your puzzle out of a block of aluminum. If you think Shapeways is expensive you should look at the cost of using injection molding or time on a CNC machine. As for what is better for this builder (me) I like Oskar would say Shapeways. I can afford it and I don't have the skill to make the puzzles I design by hand. As for the collector in me... I want to say any and all of the above. This reminds me of a thread I started a while ago asking Shapeways vs eBay... why can't it be both?. Each builder should pick the method he/she enjoys the most. You can make the puzzle out of matchboxes if you like and if you enjoyed the process and the puzzle it was a successful building method. So I say they are all good...

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Tony Fisher wrote:
So the handmade puzzles are disqualified for cheating and Shapeways wins by default.
I think it was Eric Cartman that stated "No no! If you cheat and fail, you're a cheater." You certainly haven't failed so its not cheating. Me on the other hand have probably failed for having to resort to quoting Eric Cartman.

Oh well,
Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I am not going to vote. I like both for what they are.
I think I might have stated something else earlier. But I really can't choose between the two!
My opinion might change soon... (*hint*)

_________________
Tony Fisher wrote:
I believe it would work best with black plastic.

My puzzles in the Museum
My Website
My Youtube Channel


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
I'm with Sigurd and Eric on this. You can't compare the two. Each fulfills a purpose.

Now, a much better topic would be Shapeways original vs. Mass produced clone. So far I think Shapeways is winning on turning and quality but losing on price and work to assemble.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POLL: shapeways vs. handmade
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:56 pm
Location: Chicago,
bmenrigh wrote:
I'm with Sigurd and Eric on this. You can't compare the two. Each fulfills a purpose.

Now, a much better topic would be Shapeways original vs. Mass produced clone. So far I think Shapeways is winning on turning and quality but losing on price and work to assemble.

Will start topic on that

_________________
Nobody gets all that they want, and that is perfect.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group