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 Post subject: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:56 am 
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It appears that in order not to "slip a gear" and end up with a piece in an orientation that was not meant to happen, one must be very careful to twist a corner until the center section is flat, before twisting another corner. Am I right? Or are other moves allowed?

In other words, what are the rules of movement for this seemingly very fragile puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:50 am 
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After half-a-turn it is actually possible to turn 3 other corners at the same time by any angle that is multiple of 40° (one full tooth). Whether unwanted turning of this kind happens - depends on the screws tension. The screws should be tightened so that the gears turn only when you want it.
I suspect that many mass-produced Gear Pyraminxes will be tightened incorrectly, as it usually happens :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Thank you Timur. But I still don't understand.

Quote:
After half-a-turn
What do you mean exactly by "half-a-turn"?

Quote:
it is actually possible to turn 3 other corners at the same time by any angle that is multiple of 40° (one full tooth). Whether unwanted turning of this kind happens
So when you say possible, you do not mean recommended. It is just possible to make bad turns from this position?

Quote:
- depends on the screws tension. The screws should be tightened so that the gears turn only when you want it.
How do I get to the screws to tighten them?

Quote:
I suspect that many mass-produced Gear Pyraminxes will be tightened incorrectly, as it usually happens :)
I have a mass produced Vulcano and a mass produced Professor Pyraminx. I never even thought about tightening screws with these. Should I?

I still wonder about the mass produced Gear Pyraminx. Are there rules I should follow when twisting in order not to twist something that isn't meant to be twisted? Or would tightening screws make it so I could not twist things that are not meant to be twisted? And if that is the case I guess I just need to know how to tighten the screws.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:40 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
What do you mean exactly by "half-a-turn"?
It's the state when edges have moved by 60° along their round path (full single turn is 120°). In this state, upper gears (3 edges and a corner) get disconnected from the other gears (3 corners and 3 edges) of the unmoved face. That allow these 6 gears of the unmoved face turn together independently of the other gears until the full turn is finished by moving the edges again by 60° or backwards.
robertpauljr wrote:
Quote:
it is actually possible to turn 3 other corners at the same time by any angle that is multiple of 40° (one full tooth). Whether unwanted turning of this kind happens
So when you say possible, you do not mean recommended. It is just possible to make bad turns from this position?
I didn't mean that is a bad turn. By unwanted I mean accidental turning when you do not want to turn it in this way. Of course, it may be wanted if it's a part of your scrambling or solution process.
robertpauljr wrote:
How do I get to the screws to tighten them?
I haven't seen a mass produced version yet so I don't know. I only did solid design - optimizing parts for injection molding and separating caps from the body corner pieces was a job of Meffert's.
robertpauljr wrote:
I have a mass produced Vulcano and a mass produced Professor Pyraminx. I never even thought about tightening screws with these. Should I?
I haven't seen yours, but many Prof Pyraminxes that I've seen (mostly white ones - I don't know why) had insufficiently tightened screws and that lead to a loose puzzle. Worst was that in most cases the caps were glued so strong so it was impossible to take them off without slight damaging of the caps.
robertpauljr wrote:
I still wonder about the mass produced Gear Pyraminx. Are there rules I should follow when twisting in order not to twist something that isn't meant to be twisted? Or would tightening screws make it so I could not twist things that are not meant to be twisted? And if that is the case I guess I just need to know how to tighten the screws.

Beside the tricky turn that was already mentioned, there is another one - to turn all gears simultaneously. Whether you want to use these turns or to limit yourself with "standard" moves - is up to you. I don't think these turns should be considered bad or illegal - that just opens new areas of possible positions and probably shorter ways of solving. It's like jumbling moves on the helicopter cube - you can live without them and still have an interesting puzzle, but jumbling brings the puzzle to another difficulty level.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:40 am 
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Quote:
robertpauljr wrote:
What do you mean exactly by "half-a-turn"?
It's the state when edges have moved by 60° along their round path (full single turn is 120°). In this state, upper gears (3 edges and a corner) get disconnected from the other gears (3 corners and 3 edges) of the unmoved face. That allow these 6 gears of the unmoved face turn together independently of the other gears until the full turn is finished by moving the edges again by 60° or backwards.
Ah yes, I see. Interesting.

Quote:
I didn't mean that is a bad turn. By unwanted I mean accidental turning when you do not want to turn it in this way. Of course, it may be wanted if it's a part of your scrambling or solution process.
OK. Thank you for this clarification. I misunderstood.

Quote:
robertpauljr wrote:
I still wonder about the mass produced Gear Pyraminx. Are there rules I should follow when twisting in order not to twist something that isn't meant to be twisted? Or would tightening screws make it so I could not twist things that are not meant to be twisted? And if that is the case I guess I just need to know how to tighten the screws.

Beside the tricky turn that was already mentioned, there is another one - to turn all gears simultaneously. Whether you want to use these turns or to limit yourself with "standard" moves - is up to you. I don't think these turns should be considered bad or illegal - that just opens new areas of possible positions and probably shorter ways of solving. It's like jumbling moves on the helicopter cube - you can live without them and still have an interesting puzzle, but jumbling brings the puzzle to another difficulty level.
Because of my initial problem—I twisted a corner, then twisted another, and then I went back on the second, then back on the first. That should have brought it back to solved, but one edge was one gear off of solved. I thought I must have done something wrong in the second twist. So it would be nice to know what the valid twists are, and which twists should not be done so as not to get the gears off kilter. I am afraid that things that seem to be working fine could lead to situations that are not desirable at all, with pieces that are no longer correctly positioned gear-wise.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:18 am 
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Could someone please make a video review ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:28 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQSqY3_ZKzQ

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:58 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Because of my initial problem—I twisted a corner, then twisted another, and then I went back on the second, then back on the first.
Do you mean you have already received the puzzle?
I heard the first small batch was sent out just a week ago.
robertpauljr wrote:
That should have brought it back to solved, but one edge was one gear off of solved.
It sounds like the edge have skipped a tooth because by normal turns you can not reach a position with only one edge turned. Skipping teeth may happen by weakened screws. Do you have a feeling that the puzzle is kind of loose?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Quote:
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
Could someone please make a video review ?

Hybrid424 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQSqY3_ZKzQ

This is not a review of the new mass produced one. (But it is a must-see video nonetheless.)

Timur wrote:
Do you mean you have already received the puzzle? I heard the first small batch was sent out just a week ago.
Yes!

Quote:
robertpauljr wrote:
That should have brought it back to solved, but one edge was one gear off of solved.
It sounds like the edge have skipped a tooth because by normal turns you can not reach a position with only one edge turned. Skipping teeth may happen by weakened screws. Do you have a feeling that the puzzle is kind of loose?
Maybe a little loose. In fact after watching your video I would say the mass produced one is a bit looser than yours.

I think my original problem arose when I turned a corner 120˚ then turned another corner. It turned, but I don't think it was supposed to from this position. Am I correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Timur, I just uploaded a video and another so that you can see for yourself if you think it is too loose. :D

The two videos demonstrate what you have taught me so far. :D

I hate to experiment too much looking for other ways to twist it, knowing that I may be doing something that should not be done. Are there other valid ways to twist it besides these two?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:45 pm 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Timur, I just uploaded a video and another so that you can see for yourself if you think it is too loose. :D

The two videos demonstrate what you have taught me so far. :D

I hate to experiment too much looking for other ways to twist it, knowing that I may be doing something that should not be done. Are there other valid ways to twist it besides these two?

Does it not come with extra stickers for the inner bits?


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Quote:
Does it not come with extra stickers for the inner bits?


Mine didn't. And now you can see at mefferts.com that you can order it stickered with no center stickers, or unstickered with the complete—including the center stickers—set of stickers included for the customer to apply. I am not sure at this point whether mefferts will send me the missing stickers, or tell me, "Congratulations! You are the proud owner of a Gear Pyraminx II." :lol:

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Last edited by robertpauljr on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 am 
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robertpauljr wrote:
Does it not come with extra stickers for the inner bits?

Mine didn't. And now you can see at mefferts.com that you can order it stickered with no center stickers, or unstickered with the complete—including the center stickers—set of stickers included for the customer to apply. I am not sure at this point whether mefferts will send me the missing stickers, or tell me, "Congratulations! You are the proud owner of a Gear Pyraminx II." :lol:

It seems there are two threads going on concurrently. See here for my solution to the stickers:
viewtopic.php?p=275398#p275398

==================================================
I saw the "illegal" moves on your youtube video. Very fascinating! I take it when all four corners are engaged, you can rotate all of them independent of the centers. Since you can also perform this move on three corners with the fourth disengaged, I see potential to manipulate the puzzle in groups, solving only the outer parts without disturbing the centers. But since the edges have a parity of two teeth (6/2), and the corners a parity of three (9/3), then peforming the all-corner or three-corner rotation could change the offset allowable by "standard" moves which change the centers and only engage one corner at a time.

So we have two methods of manipulating the puzzle, and each method by itself could yield positions not possible by employing only the other method. If the offset of gear twists is perturbed by these "all-corner" or "three-corner" moves, it may not be possible again to solve the puzzle based on single corner turns alone.

I cannot wait to receive my Geared Pyraminx to try these alternate movesets.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:30 am 
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stardust4ever wrote:
It seems there are two threads going on concurrently. See here for my solution to the stickers:
viewtopic.php?p=275398#p275398
I have the yellow and orange ones, but not green and blue. Hopefully mefferts will make it right, but for now I'm content with stickerless centers. Perhaps after mastering the puzzle without center stickers I will try making some, if I don't get any from mefferts.

stardust4ever wrote:
I saw the "illegal" moves on your youtube video.
No, that isn't an illegal move. Nothing goes wrong with the puzzle. I think the illegal move that the puzzle lets you make is when you turn a corner just 120˚ then turn another corner. As far as I know, you must turn the corner either 160˚ or 320˚ before turning other corners. I base these statements on Timur's video (link is in the thread above), plus his comments in the thread above, plus personal experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:48 pm 
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I just got ahold of one of the Meffert Gear Pyraminxes, and I think I ran into a slipped edge... Basically, I managed to solve the entire puzzle, except I have one edge that is sitting there 1/6 toward clockwise (i.e. 60 degrees) off. That shouldn't normally happen, right?

Anyone know a good way to turn this one piece without stressing the puzzle too much?


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced Gear Pyraminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Just to followup, my puzzle looked very much like stardust4ever's in the top post on this page: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... 2&start=50 -- and while he didn't give a lot of details, I found that I had to turn the top corner about 180 degrees to get it to the point (so the screwed up edge was just leaving the "center's divots") where I could lever the edge up, turn it just a tiny bit more, and then lever the edge down to get the edge's top gears extricated enough to "slip" back into place.


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