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 Post subject: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:32 pm 
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We might have had a topic like this before.
Thing is, now Bram Cohen has gotten involved. With his new ideas for puzzle rings these things will get interesting again.
I finally got to order Take 5, Sixth Sense and Weave Five in white polished nylon.
I will post my thoughts about them here when I get them.
Without having tried them yet I hope at least Weave five will prove a challenge.
But with this I will also try and encourage Bram to design some more advanced ones.
And also at a larger size like 20. I would not mind paying more for a good quality puzzle at the right size.
I also plan on buying the one sI like best in metal. Right now only the Weave Five seems have that option.
Can you imagine some inovative puzzle ring with say 11 bands?
I'd say PLEASE please make some more!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:41 am 
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Don't beg for harder ones just yet - first get the one's you've already ordered solved!

I do have some more puzzle ring stuff in the works. It turns out that puzzle rings are very forgiving as a genre - there are lots of variants which really do function as puzzles. I've been trying to pick out just the most interesting ones though.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:26 am 
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Just got the pretty blue offset one you made (from Oskar). Nick Baxter mucked about for a while but wouldn't disentangle it fully. Not enough bus time to dolce I guess. Me-I'm terrified I won't get it back together.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:45 am 
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Sure will try! thanks for the quick response Bram!
I am really happy to hear you looked into this so much. Why wouldnt you? :)

How about larger sizes? If they are that hard, its not the best thing if they are fiddley as well.

:)

btw. how do you actually design these?

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:43 am 
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katsmom wrote:
Just got the pretty blue offset one you made (from Oskar). Nick Baxter mucked about fir a while but wouldn't disentangle it fully. Not enough bus time to dolce I guess. Me-I'm terrified I won't get it back together.


You mean Nick wasn't able to get it completely back together again? It's like a regular puzzle ring - the pieces don't actually separate, they just get messed up.

To date I don't think anyone other than me has solved it. It's extremely difficult, although unlike the six-banded one, it's possible to figure out a series of steps to get it back together again quickly, which I've gotten reasonably consistent at doing (I've been wearing a metal version). The six-banded one feels like a higher-dimensional version of the traditional, and I've never really gotten fast at solving it, while the five-banded is more like an extended version of the traditional.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:32 am 
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Sigurd wrote:
Sure will try! thanks for the quick response Bram!
I am really happy to hear you looked into this so much. Why wouldnt you? :)

How about larger sizes? If they are that hard, its not the best thing if they are fiddley as well.

:)

btw. how do you actually design these?


The Sixth Sense design easily generalizes to any number of bands, including three (the simple design which everyone who works on them independently reinvents) and four (the traditional design). At numbers larger than six the bands may hold each other in place actually making it easier, or it may become ridiculous, it's hard to guess.

I design them with a pen and paper, drawing the weave patterns and then scribbling to indicate which side goes over which other, which I often do second, and there has been some iteration on figuring out what makes a really interesting/difficult design. At some point I should write some notes on what the interesting phenomena are.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Bram I have had a regular 6 band ring for a long time. It solves very traditionally with two sets resembling a 4 band ring.
If the Sixth Sense is anything like this old puzzle I will get a little disappointed with it.
I have from time to time tried to solve my 6 band as well as a large 4 band nontraditionally with no luck. I always hoped for puzzle rings that would need that kind of solution.
Ring by ring.

I can imagine such a solution designed to an 11 band one would be amazing.

On a sidenote before I got my first puzzle ring I tried to build on with no big luck. I bought some thick aluminum wire are tried to weave one. No luck.
Then I tried making 5 I think rings out of Miliput and weave them after connected. Didnt work out :)

What do you say about making some in a bigger size?

Btw. how is the metal version compared to nylon? Can you please record a video of the metal version?

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:42 am 
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Bram, I let Nick clip off the holder. He pulled the ring here and there, and said there simply wasn't the time on the bus ride to finish solving it. So no, he didn't pull it apart fully.

From the state of my normal ring solving, I don't think I'll be doing it anytime soon either. I bought your 5 band and 6 band ones from Oskar last year, and had a horrid time putting the 5 band back together when bug mucked it.

After reading this post, I don't think I'll be taking apart this years find.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:57 am 
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Sigurd wrote:
Bram I have had a regular 6 band ring for a long time. It solves very traditionally with two sets resembling a 4 band ring.
If the Sixth Sense is anything like this old puzzle I will get a little disappointed with it.
I have from time to time tried to solve my 6 band as well as a large 4 band nontraditionally with no luck. I always hoped for puzzle rings that would need that kind of solution.
Ring by ring.

What do you say about making some in a bigger size?

Btw. how is the metal version compared to nylon? Can you please record a video of the metal version?


While the Sixth Sense isn't all that dissimilar to other 6-banded rings in terms of how much you have to change the weave pattern to get from one to the other, it's vastly harder, as the different ways subsets of it form traditional 4-banded designs weave into each other very holistically, instead of simply cutting two of the bands in half like most of them do.

I think Oskar could make the rings larger straightforwardly.

The metal version is much harder to solve than the nylon. I should probably make a video showing how to solve it.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Awesome! With the new WSF Polished taking a little bit off the surface, do you think they will be too loose?

I cant wait to see your next puzzle rings Bram. Please make 10 new unique ones and I will buy them all :)

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
Awesome! With the new WSF Polished taking a little bit off the surface, do you think they will be too loose?


I'd be a little worried about it getting a little too thin and breaking, but being too loose shouldn't be a problem. Puzzle rings are by their nature very loose.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:48 pm 
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When solved does it stay easily together or does it come apart like nothing? :D

They arent hollow are they?

Also please on your next one please choose a visually pleasing pattern and work on the esthetics (I think the Weave Five looks better than the earlier ones). Not creatively, but make it as elegant looking as possible (Not that I dont like those staright bends, but a more smooth look would be pleasing).
Also make the rings sit tight with no air in between... just thoughts...
Thank you :)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Sixth Sense will discombobulate if you drop it from an inch in the air. Weave Five comes apart easily, but not quite as easily.

The bands are not hollow.

To my eye Sixth Sense is the best looking of the bunch. The next one will have a slightly different look, although which one one prefers is probably a matter of taste.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:15 am 
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Just got a mail from UPS. The three rings wil arrive tomorrow.
I cant wait :)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:32 pm 
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As I understand it, there are 4 rings (designed by Bram)-
Cross Rings,
Weave Five,
Take Five, and
Sixth Sense
What order of difficulty are they? Is it as simple as "more bands- harder puzzle"?

Why are they more difficult when printed in metal as opposed to in nylon?

Would you say that these are most like puzzles, rings or "fiddle pieces"? By fiddle pieces I mean something like the gear ring by kinect- just something for you to play with your fingers when you're distracted :)

and lastly, what is the best material for these? I mean- it would be kinda moronic if I bought a ring that itches like crazy- but if the metal versions don't work quite as well, then that won't do either.

Oh- and great work Bram, these are really nice. I wish I had paid more attention to them sooner. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:31 pm 
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I have read that the flexibility of SLS nylon makes it possible to force "illegal" moves on some puzzle rings. More rigid materials lack this "cheat".

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:34 pm 
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yes there are 4 rings.
I ordered all but the Cross Rings. I regret that now. But I somewhat regret buying all of them. Eventually I want them all in metal anyway.
I just couldn't resist buying them at so low cost.

They are really puzzles. Not fiddley items. When you know the solution the regular ones are pretty boring. But I expect these to bring a little more of a challenge.

I dont hope they are fragile tho. Cuz I am going to tare and stretch them when I can't solve :)

I dont know about difficulty, but I expect Sixth Sense to be the easiest of the three I got. Then Take 5 and then Weave 5.

I hope the next will be even more challenging and weird.
Bram I hope you will use the Cross Rings concept some more. And please make more untraditional concepts :)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Cross Rings and Take Five I'm not completely happy with. Cross Rings doesn't come apart as much as I'd like, and Take Five has issues with wanting the bands to pass through each other. Don't let that stop you from enjoying them though!

More ring designs are coming. I've sent one to Oskar which is really meant to be done in metal, and have another I need to send along as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
I have read that the flexibility of SLS nylon makes it possible to force "illegal" moves on some puzzle rings. More rigid materials lack this "cheat".


For puzzle rings those issues matter surprisingly little.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:38 pm 
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...wow!
What the in the world are these? They are insane Bram. Give me another day. And then post a video solution. But right now I dont think I am gonna solve any of the rings.
Can you give any hints?

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Tony Fisher wrote:
I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:53 pm 
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...and I have solved Weave 5 :D I am so happy. Especially because it came scrambled.
I am happy!

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Tony Fisher wrote:
I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:44 pm 
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I got a problem.
As I was plying around with my Take 5, one ring suddently came through another. Now the puzzle looks like Weave Five.
Is it still solvable from this position? If not, what can I do to make come back to the other configuration?

And the Sixth Sense is rediculous :D

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
As I was plying around with my Take 5, one ring suddently came through another. Now the puzzle looks like Weave Five.
Is it still solvable from this position?


Yes, but you'll have to put one band through another again :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:20 pm 
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does it matter which one?

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:32 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
does it matter which one?


It sure does.

The bands passing through each other effect is one I've been specifically trying to avoid. Not sure if it's a bad thing or an interesting thing unto itself. I don't like how it makes a puzzle have degrees of scrambledness.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:43 pm 
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me too :cry: now my puzzle is scrambled alot..

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:22 pm 
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What exactly do you mean by "passed through"? is it a broken ring? or an illegal move? Because I would have thought that 5 rings cannot pass through one another, unless there was at least one broken one...

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:41 pm 
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WSF is as in the name very flexible which allows illegal moves.
This is not good news. I have no idea what to go for.
I wish I had waited and gotten them all in metal (problem solved).

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:25 pm 
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very simple solution- Disassemble, sort pieces, and reassemble! :lol:

I suppose thats not exactly possible with things like this, is it...

Perhaps if you looked very carefully at the various pictures on shapeways, you could work out what part goes where? Thats half the battle at any rate...

Are there any downsides other than price for the metal versions?

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:53 pm 
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It's probably best to treat the moves which require a bit of distortion as legal in the vinyl copies where they can happen. I'm planning on tweaking the design so that the bands can move through each other reasonably easily, that's on the to do list though.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:54 pm 
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I love the new one Bram! It looks beautiful!
Please tell oskar to make it available in metal as well :)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:54 am 
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Sigurd wrote:
I love the new one Bram! It looks beautiful!


I need to try out the new one to see if it really works.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:05 am 
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Image

Here is a link to Brams new puzzle ring, designed by Oskar:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/322493/s ... id=sg13603

Bram says:
Hey Oskar, I came up with the attached puzzle ring design the other day. This one is also taking things in a different direction, in that it's six bands where each one is linked to the three which it isn't next to, and everything comes apart easily, sort of the opposite of the other new one I sent you where each band is connected specifically to the ones next to it and it only comes apart via a holistic move. I'm not sure how this one discombobulates, and have no idea how hard it might be. Only one way to find out...

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:52 pm 
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This past Saturday I got my first real puzzle ring, meaning one that I can actually wear (I have the 2 Hanayama over sized reproductions). It is a six band ring made of sterling silver made by Norman Greene http://www.normangreene.com


Attachments:
Ring 1.jpg
Ring 1.jpg [ 43.43 KiB | Viewed 5588 times ]
Ring 2.jpg
Ring 2.jpg [ 36.08 KiB | Viewed 5588 times ]
Ring 3.jpg
Ring 3.jpg [ 34.16 KiB | Viewed 5588 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:19 am 
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nice jewelry Volitar Prime! :)

Bram, did you get the 6-to-3 yet? If there is no problem I will order it soon

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
Bram, did you get the 6-to-3 yet? If there is no problem I will order it soon


I got the 6-to-3 the other day. It's got an issue where there's an element of bands passing through each other, which I don't like. I came up with a much more elegant design as a result of studying it which I sent to Oskar, who will probably make it at some point in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzle Rings
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:30 pm 
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So I got my weave five yesterday. Man is this difficult. Any hints?

Edit: Solved. :)


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