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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:41 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
Thank you. There are 197 pieces, including the core and 12 center caps. 312 stickers no less.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:37 am

Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 4:58 pm
Location: United Kingdom
A truly beautiful puzzle, I love the depth. Quite confusing to look at. Congratulations

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Please can you reduce the size of your photos when posting. To see the whole of this thread I have to walk into the next room.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:46 am

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:52 am
TomZ wrote:
I would think it would be the product of the number of states of the Megaminx and the Master Pentultimate multiplied by 60 because the orientation of the Master Pentultimate relative to the Megaminx matters. I don't think there would be any other constraints (parity on both puzzles is always fixed).
Apparently the Teraminx has in the order of 10^525 positions. The Megaminx has 10^68 positions. If the Master Pentultimate has about the same (it probably has more), then combined they would have 10^(2*68+1) positions, not nearly as many as the Teraminx.

How could I forget that you can solve the MP in different positions with respect to the minx?! That's rigt.
If the Pyraminx Crystal eges can be solved in any wanted way around the minx's corners, which I assume than times 60 does it. Thanks for remembering that fact for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:50 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
As it is hopeless to add something original, I will not even try. Great idea, great puzzle!
I was just solving another TomZ puzzle (Compy Skewb, I have not solved it for some time), when I read this. A while ago I had the idea to get all your puzzles, but you are always ahead of me and my puzzle budget
This one will make a great Christmas gift, but solving it scares me. I mean a Pentultimate is hard (I have the TomZ Mini), a Master Pentultimate harder (I do not own one) and now everything at once?
Wow

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:27 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Jared wrote:
So now, how about a multiicosahedron?
The icosahedron and the dodecahedron are part of the same symmetry group. A corner turn multiicosahedron would be the same puzzle as this one.
rline wrote:
That diagram's great. It does help.
Agreed... nice diagram.
rline wrote:
What I'm not getting (excuse my ignorance) is how the inner megaminx differs from the outer penultimate after a few moves. Wouldn't the two layers match up? Or is that the beauty of the puzzle? (My problem may be that I have no idea what a master penultimate is.)
Well the easiest way to see the difference between a Master Pentultimate and a Megaminx is to look at the turning faces which affect each piece.

On a Megaminx:
A face is just affected by a rotation of that face. They change orientation but can't change positions as they are attached to the core.
An edge is just affected by a rotation of the 2 neighboring faces.
A corner is just affected by a rotation of the 3 neighboring faces.

On a Master Pentultimate:
A face does change orientation with a rotation of that face but it also changes position with a rotation of the 5 neighboring faces. Its affected by 6 faces in total.
An edge is affected by a rotation of 4 faces, the 2 neighboring faces AND the 2 next-nearest neighboring faces.
A corner is affected by a rotation of 6 faces, the 3 neighboring faces AND the 3 next-nearest neighboring faces.
An off-center face piece is affected by the rotation of 5 faces, a rotation of the side that its on plus 4 of its neighbors.
TomZ wrote:
Hmm... possibly not the best grammar, but maybe I should've used "into":
Ah... I see. Is that image made in Solidworks? I guess I need to learn how to add color to certain faces. I haven't done that yet.
TomZ wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but by cutting and shipping them myself.
Ok... I understand.
TomZ wrote:
Now you get working on that Real5x5x5!
Thanks... and I'd LOVE to... but is so complicated and I still have so much to learn in SolidWorks. I'd like to get a few simplier designs under my belt first before I attempt that one.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:44 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
wwwmwww wrote:
Ah... I see. Is that image made in Solidworks? I guess I need to learn how to add color to certain faces. I haven't done that yet.
That's under edit -> appearance. If you click the pin icon you can easily define colors for multiple faces at once, without having to open the menu again and again.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:46 am

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 am
With a display like this, one must unfortunately submit to mimicking the chorus of others.

A display of pure intellect, Tom. As all the others would say.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:55 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
BTW: The first clear image of this puzzle was presented via the invitation for the DCD. That is what Tony's hint here refered to:
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... 27#p268527
Could someone post a scan of the DCD invitation? I'd LOVE to see one. Also how to you go about getting invited? There is no way I could make it, at least to this one, but someday in the future I'd hope to be able to. Years ago I used to be invited to IPP as I was part of Jerry Slocum's Directory of Puzzle Collectors and Puzzle Sellers but I haven't seen an invite to that in years either. No hard feels, I simply haven't been able to make it but I'd LOVE to make it to some eventually. And while we are on this topic, is anyone still maintaining that directory? If so I'm sure I'd need to update my contact info.
TomZ wrote:
I have added two more pictures to the first post: a half turn image and a "scrambled" image (as far as I dare take it).
What!? Another designer that can't solve his own puzzles? LOL!!
TomZ wrote:
The Megaminx has 10^68 positions. If the Master Pentultimate has about the same (it probably has more), then combined they would have 10^(2*68+1) positions, not nearly as many as the Teraminx.
I'd say the Master Pentultimate certainly has more states then the Megaminx. I'd guess ALOT more. And if you compare the Super Master Pentultimate to the Super Megaminx the difference would be even bigger. Both puzzles have face centers, edges, and corners. But the Master Pentultimate also has 60 off-center face pieces AND its face centers can change position and NOT just be rotated. Is it enough to make up the gap with the Teraminx? I just don't know... though I think I know how to find out. GAP I think could answer this question.

And this makes me think of another puzzle I'd love to know the answer to. How many turns are required on this puzzle to rotate the inner Megaminx by 72 degrees on one axis relative to the outer Master Pentultimate?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:02 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
I'm pretty sure the directory is still being maintained. Part of the process of getting invited for Berlin involved signing up. Being invited for the DCD basically requires you to send Geert an email asking to be. It's really informal, it's just a check you're indeed a puzzler.

The DCD invitation, "secret" information cropped away:
Attachment:

c932f39ccc6f47e8b522d4b[1].png [ 144.5 KiB | Viewed 7411 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:13 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
TomZ wrote:
The DCD invitation, "secret" information cropped away:
What another puzzle that has yet to be shown? Some secret code word needed to get in the front door at DCD? Makes me what to get invited just to see all the "secret" info on the invite. Hmmm... I'll live. I'd feel bad emailing Geert knowing I can't make it.

Thanks,
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:16 am

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
wwwmwww wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Yes, great puzzle. It very slightly resembles an idea I had a while back. That is to show the 'hidden cube/s' within an nxnxn cube. Meaning, for example construct a 5x5x5 with the theoretical 3x3x3 that lies inside visible and solvable. I wrote a post about hidden cubes a few years back- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5719&hilit=hidden+cubes
Tony, it was EXACTLY this idea... and this very thread you linked to was one of the biggest sparks... that drove me to design a 5x5x5 with a 3x3x3 inside it not once... but twice:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6187
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19622

Carl

Wow, some how I missed all of that including Oskar's Framed Cube.
Sorry Tom, won't hijack the thread any more. Can't wait to see the Multidodecahedron at Cube Day.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:22 am

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Somewhere Else
wwwmwww wrote:
Jared wrote:
So now, how about a multiicosahedron?
The icosahedron and the dodecahedron are part of the same symmetry group. A corner turn multiicosahedron would be the same puzzle as this one.

Who said I was talking about corner-turning puzzles?

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:25 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
wwwmwww wrote:
TomZ wrote:
The DCD invitation, "secret" information cropped away:
What another puzzle that has yet to be shown? Some secret code word needed to get in the front door at DCD? Makes me what to get invited just to see all the "secret" info on the invite. Hmmm... I'll live. I'd feel bad emailing Geert knowing I can't make it.
By secret I mean the venue of the DCD. The invitation is really not all that interesting. It just says the date and time, as well as the program (which is nothing more than opening - lecture by Oskar in between - ending).

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:33 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Jared wrote:
Who said I was talking about corner-turning puzzles?
Didn't say you were... but the corner turning multiicosahedron is the only one I see as doable at the moment. The face turning multiicosahedron is to the Chopasaurus (if it were in the shape of an icosahedron) what this puzzle is to the Pentultimate.

Also instead of 7 pieces types to sticker... you'd have 17.

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:42 am

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
So how many permutations does thing monster have?

The Megaminx is no different than a typical Megaminx and so contributes the same number of permutations. The Pentultimate now has a visible orientation relative to the Megaminx and if we look at super stickers the overall twist of the face centers is linked between the two puzzles.

Standard version restrictions:

• The Megaminx edge permutation is even (2)
• The Megaminx corner permutation is even (2)
• The Megaminx overall edge orientation is 0 mod 2 (2)
• The Megaminx overall corner orientation in 0 mod 3 (3)
• The Pentultimate face center permutation is even (2)
• The Pentultimate edge permutation is even (2)
• The Pentultimate corner permutation is even (2)
• The Pentultimate trapezoids are in 12 indistinguishable groups of 5 (5!^12)
• The Pentultimate overall edge orientation is 0 mod 2 (2)
• The Pentultimate overall corner orientation is 0 mod 3 (3)

This should give us:
(30! / 2) * (20! / 2) * (2 ^ 30 / 2) * (3 ^ 20 / 3) * (12! / 2) * (30! / 2) * (20! / 2) * (60! / (5! ^ 12)) * (2 ^ 30 / 2) * (3 ^ 20 / 3)

Which is 2,265,185,088,511,113,179,253,619,590,138,302,613,408,411,016,958,684,954,598,409,
670,944,610,674,540,079,955,403,505,962,675,235,607,620,357,316,148,527,712,446,
782,555,042,217,049,111,036,877,750,346,285,223,515,108,531,770,700,595,200,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Or 2.26 * 10 ^ 201

In keeping with our astronomical unit theme, if the observable universe has 10 ^ 80 atoms then this puzzle is only 2.26 * 10 ^ 121 U

If we give the puzzle super-stickers:

• The Pentultimate trapezoid permutation is even (2)
• The Pentultimate overall center twist is determined by the Megaminx center twist (5)

That should give us: (30! / 2) * (20! / 2) * (5 ^ 12) * (2 ^ 30 / 2) * (3 ^ 20 / 3) * (12! / 2) * (30! / 2) * (20! / 2) * (60! / 2) * (5 ^ 12 / 5) * (2 ^ 30 / 2) * (3 ^ 20 / 3)

Which is 120,381,222,862,343,449,909,572,284,860,268,967,917,237,935,926,354,049,095,673,343,393,
647,484,148,825,463,157,959,461,231,008,988,654,937,031,245,128,971,603,043,056,783,419,
087,079,661,854,934,852,178,016,547,009,279,323,275,289,501,368,320,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Or 1.20 * 10 ^ 242

Or in atoms in the universe a measly 1.20 * 10 ^ 162 U

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:56 am

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
wwwmwww wrote:
And this makes me think of another puzzle I'd love to know the answer to. How many turns are required on this puzzle to rotate the inner Megaminx by 72 degrees on one axis relative to the outer Master Pentultimate?
If you consider rotation of the center pieces then there is no way to perform a pure Megaminx twist because the overall twist of the Pentultimate centers is linked to the overall twist of the Megaminx centers.

I think it would be very hard to isolate a Megaminx corner to perform a pure 3-cycle of Megaminx corners without affecting the Pentultimate. If we were to do the twist via individual Megaminx piece cycles it would take a lot of moves.

Likely a better choice is to just do the Megaminx twist by twisting the Pentultimate face and then cycle the Pentultimate pieces back leaving an excess twist in the Megaminx. I think the best-case scenario for this is 24 moves (gut feeling from experience) but it would likely take more.

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Last edited by Brandon Enright on Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:11 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
bmenrigh wrote:
If you concider rotation of the center pieces then there is no way to perform a pure Megaminx twist because the overall twist of the Pentultimate centers is linked to the overall twist of the Megaminx centers.
Is this another way of saying this can be done on a Multidodecahedron but not a Super Multidodecahedron where the face center orientation is seen?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:20 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
wwwmwww wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
If you conciser rotation of the center pieces then there is no way to perform a pure Megaminx twist because the overall twist of the Pentultimate centers is linked to the overall twist of the Megaminx centers.
Is this another way of saying this can be done on a Multidodecahedron but not a Super Multidodecahedron where the face center orientation is seen?

Carl

In one sense yes. I'd prefer to say that it can't be done on either but it looks like it can be done when you don't have super-stickers.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:25 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
bmenrigh wrote:
In one sense yes. I'd prefer to say that it can't be done on either but it looks like it can be done when you don't have super-stickers.
Understood... thanks.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:22 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:03 pm
Location: Gotham City
INCEPTION!!!
*bommmmmmmmmm*

--JC--

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:55 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:51 pm
This is incredible.... I really want this....

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:07 pm

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Phoenix wrote:
INCEPTION!!!
*bommmmmmmmmm*

--JC--

We need to go deeper!

Good gravy, this is so indescribably awesome. Reminds me of the Great Jedi Holocron:

If you solve it will you become attuned with the Force?

I wonder if some kind of void mechanism could be made for the outer master pentultimate pieces to leave the megaminx more exposed but still anchoring the whole. That would be pretty unbelievable. Can't wait to see this on Shapeways!

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:45 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:51 pm
any idea how much this will sell for on shapeways?

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:58 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Tom (and others with shapeways experience),

I bought the Multidodecahedron in WSF.

I intend to dye the outer shell black and have the inner shells white to keep as much light in the core as possible & to make dying or painting the pyraminx crystal tips look better (colours look richer with a white surface).

I would like colours on the Pyraminx Crystal parts: It's really nice to acknowledge it as part of the puzzle. I know that it is meaningless to the solution, but I think it's integral conceptually to the idea of the multi-puzzle, and it would look nice.

I would like some suggestions about how to go about doing this? For example, is the outer surface of the pyraminx crystal tips a contact surface that will rub, if so I might need dye them or just to paint the inner side? How could I go about dying just a part of a piece accurately, (is there a dye resist, like vasoline, for example?)

Most people dye the white `white` too, do they? It might not be necessary on the internals, what do you think?

Can you provide the type and number of screws and things needed too, thanks.

Also, thanks for making the effort to get the thing up in time to take advantage of the 15% discount, it is much appreciated .

Also Carl, once you have made the Real5x5 all my puzzling dreams will be over . I just hope you are trying to design the little CCs into it (or thin the outer circle down to avoid them maybe?) That is the problem of the puzzle in some ways isn't it (because they are superfluous)?

Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:14 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Burgo wrote:
Hi Tom (and others with shapeways experience),

I bought the Multidodecahedron in WSF.

I intend to dye the outer shell black and have the inner shells white to keep as much light in the core as possible & to make dying or painting the pyraminx crystal tips look better (colours look richer with a white surface).

...Cheers,
Burgo.
From my experience, I would say that mixing white and black parts is not a good idea.
I have washed all pieces of Shapeways puzzles (for self-assembled puzzles bought as BSF from Shapeways) in hot soap water, carefully dried them, ironed them, baked them under an infrared light. Still, after some time black powder weares off. This seems to be a never ending process. I'm afraid your inner white parts will be not back any longer after some time.
BTW, you will sticker the inner parts and not so much white would be left as background.

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Last edited by Konrad on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:15 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
Sorry, but what you want to do is impossible. The Pyraminx Crystal parts and Master Pentultimate edge are one and the same piece so you could never dye them separately. I don't think "dye-resist" could possibly work: WSF is porous so the dye soaks in to it so if you coated half of the part with dye resist the dye could enter from the other halve and still dye the coated half.
You could potentially paint the Pyraminx Crystal parts. They're not really contact surfaces but the paint would be subjected to some light rubbing.

I don't think anybody has ever dyed white - I have painted/lacquered it though. The only thing I can tell you is that it gets dirty quickly. I do believe that being on the inside of the puzzle away from any skin contact it won't happen as quickly, but at the same time I'm scared of letting a BSF puzzle anywhere near a WSF one.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:02 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia

I didn't know about the powdering effect, I see.. the combination would make a grey residue. Even if I painted the outside black (so that the inner surfaces are all white), the white residue would still get onto the black So it must be either white or black I guess.

If I decided white (which I think I would prefer still), it will get dirty quickly, is painting and laquering successful then? Or is it just a better result to make it black (I'm not that fussy about colour, I would prefer a nice puzzle).

I can still dye all of the pieces balck with concentrated fabric dye (that is my fall back plan), or do you think I should try to change the order to BSF? I would have asked these questions first, but I had to make a quick decision.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:12 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
Fabric dye is just perfect for dyeing WSF. I do it all the time, I've never used Shapeways' BSF.
I'm not sure about painting. It seems it would be very hard to paint all the interior surfaces, though it might not be much of an issue if those were left unpainted since they're not in contact with your bodily oils.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:56 pm

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am
Location: Norway
Tony Fisher wrote:
Yes, great puzzle. It very slightly resembles an idea I had a while back. That is to show the 'hidden cube/s' within an nxnxn cube. Meaning, for example construct a 5x5x5 with the theoretical 3x3x3 that lies inside visible and solvable. I wrote a post about hidden cubes a few years back- http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... dden+cubes

And i even wrote a simulator for that a long time ago. At the time i wasn't aware of your plans to make real physical version.

Anyhow, what i did with my software was to have option for transparent layers and also explosion to see the cubies better. My "design" had cubies all the way, 6 colored.

It is still downloadable from the yahoo speedsolvingrubikscube group. Not sure if i still have the sourcecode (delphi).

Per

PS! Such cubes i would solve inside out, and with extensive use of commutators ,,,

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:27 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: Texas, USA
wwwmwww wrote:
Should that be onto? What stickers go under the Megaminx corners?

Can't you see the Radiolarian III core under the Megaminx corners?

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:49 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Am I really the first writing a review here?
In one sentence: This is a wonderful puzzle, the puzzle of puzzles!

I have received it on Thursday and due to a family event I have finished assembly this morning.
It turns almost incredibly well!!! It is not yet fully broken in, not lubricated, but it turns better by factors compared to the mass-produced FT Starminx.
So many pieces and such a great twisty puzzle, I cannot stop telling this story to all others in my family.
And now I'm telling it to the TP forum. I'm full of joy.

The assembly process was straight forward, just the last edge of the inner Megaminx needed some effort.
The outer pieces can be assembled on top of the fully assembled inner puzzle.
Actually assembling it was a real pleasure and this is good, because I will have to do it again.

I'm waiting for the stickers (324! My God! )and Tom gave the advice to assemble it and break it in before stickering.
Otherwise the superfluous powder would make the inner stickers dirty very soon.

So, it will remain a black beauty for a while.
I'll turn it a few thousand times and when the stickers will arrive, I'll finish it.
I'll take it completely apart, wash all parts in hot soap water, iron the flat surfaces, sticker everything and use the ironing method for the outside stickers.

I cannot tell you what a relief it is to turn the Multi-D after a few solves of the FT Starminx during the last days.
I'm really not over critical when it comes to judge the turning quality of a puzzle. (And I have said myself that the Starminx is not bad. And Muffet's video showed a really good sample.)
I would really want that everybody who has said that the Starminx is great, could make the direct comparison.
The Multi-D is more complex but I'm not exaggerating at all saying that it is GREAT!

I know, the Multi-D is not really inexpensive, but I do not regret a single cent.

EDIT: I forgot to mention size and weight: 154g and just a tiny bit smaller than a Crazy Megaminx.
35 mm edge length of a whole pentagon.
I like both, weight and size, especially the size is nicer than that of the latest mf8 dodecahedra.
Just my opinion.

EDIT2: I'm wondering if this could ever be mass-produced at the high quality I see in mine.
When I assembled it I admired the perfect shape of each individual piece.
OK, WSF / BSF has this grainy surface and you hear some scratchin noise when turning a Shapeways puzzle.
But could injection moulding ever provide the precise structure of those hollow triangles???

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Last edited by Konrad on Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:30 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Somewhere Else
If the puzzle was mass-produced, the hollow triangles could be made out of transparent plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am
Jared wrote:
If the puzzle was mass-produced, the hollow triangles could be made out of transparent plastic.

If the puzzle was mass produced I would buy it and pay lots of money for it. But there's no way that I would ever be able to assemble it etc. Please someone, mass produce this.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:32 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Do not misunderstand me, please. I would be happy if the Multi-D would be mass-produced at a similar quality as the 3D-printed.
Maybe, I got carried away a bit yesterday , but I was so happy with it that I had to share my joy.

I have a long history with Starminx, Pentultimate and now this Multi-D (I would really like if Tom comes up with more sexy name for it, especially for the mass-produced version )
The Mini Pentultimate was the first (nice assembly too) and turning is OK. My first Mini Starminx was a disaster. It felt as a full block of plastic after the first assembly. If I recollect this correctly, I took me 20 minutes to do the first turn. Shapeways was fair enough to send me a second for free. This turns decently. Next was the mass-produced Starminx and I have said enough about it in the Starminx thread.
And now, the most complex is the best! It is not the absolute turning quality (rest assured, a Guhong turns easier ), but the comparison with the four others that impresses me so much.

@rline: Maybe, you overestimate the problem of assembling it. (We had contact in PMs about it).
You need 12 M3 screws (I bought them at a German Internet shop), small size washers and little springs.
You start with the inner core. The Megaminx corners are extruding from the Megaminx and are important to support the outer pieces. You can plug in the outer pieces afterwards in this order: Pyraminx Crystal edges (the hollow triangles are part of this piece type first and after that the trapezoids (logically the Starminx star tips) and centres.
Actually the whole process is easier than assembling a mf8 Starminx.
The Multi-D is stable even assembled half way!
I think the stickering is the more time consuming part (312!!!)
Stickers are provided by Tom. (Maybe Tom can provide screws, washers and springs as well or he can give advice where to get them. Why do you not post something here about this issue, Tom?) I'm waiting for the stickers.

EDIT: Correction: 324 stickers!
I'm still waiting for my stickers and my puzzle is ready for them.
I guess that I have turned it now for 6 to 8 hours, whenever I did not need my hands for other things.
Watching TV is a good time for breaking in puzzles. It turns amazingly by now. I will lubricate it after stickering and then it will be speed solvable It is corner cutting (not inverse corner cutting, OK, but you can turn it a bit into the not-intended direction and it will adjust itself.)

Regarding mass-production: I contacted Uwe and he does not see a chance for mass-producing it. He said that the mould costs would be very high and that at most 500 would be sold.

EDIT2: I have completed the breaking in of the puzzle. I disassembled it completely, cleansed all parts and assembled it again. The second time was really fast and easy.
I was surprised to find not much powder after estimated 10 hours of turning.
I'm wondering by now if Shapeways has improved their production process. At least they have washed my puzzle more carefully than any other puzzle I have assembled before.
When I will get the stickers from Tom I will first sticker the outer pieces. I'll follow my usual dodeca colour scheme as closely as possible, dependent on the colours I'll get from Tom. This provides templates for the Megaminx pieces and I'll sticker the Megaminx corners after complete disassembly. I think it is very hard to sticker the Megaminx corners while the core pieces are assembled.
I will then disassemble the puzzle again and sticker the inner pieces, the Megaminx corners on their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:17 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
BUMP

Is there really nobody here who has assembled and stickered his Multi-D?
As far as I know, Tom has sent at least 8 sticker sets.

Mine was unfortunately returned to sender.
Tom has sent it again today.
There will be a black hole in my Christmas Cube parcel

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:05 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
I feel your pain Konrad. The status of mine is "Sorting - Parcel intern. processed incorrectly" and appears to be in US customs. My Multi-D induced twitch is getting worse!

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:44 pm

Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:17 am
Location: DÃ¼sseldorf, Germany
Hi!

Yesterday I received the Shapeways pieces for the Multi Dodec and as I already got the stickers from Tom I could immediately start to assemble and sticker the puzzle. Assembly is easy. Og course you need twelve M3 screws, but that's it. You can see the procedure in the pictures. The most tiring part was adding the stickers on the inner layer. I used (as you recommended - I read it afterwards) some tweezers. For each small sticker I first took a sharp cutter to release the sticker from its base as the foil is quite thin, then I took it from the knife with one small tweezer, adjusted it in the puzzle and pressed it down with a second tweezer. Then with the flat back side of the small one I pressed it down over the whole sticker surface. A lot of single steps and changing tools for each sticker. After a while I took my smartphone to measure the time - it was about 4:30 for the ten stickers of one colour Less than 30secs per sticker - not too bad I think. The outer stickers were more the relaxing part later on.

I have to emphasize, that I ordered the puzzle as WSF polished. So I had NOT to clean surfaces, rails etc. before stickering. That would have been really annoying. If you don't insist on a black body (assumed you don't want to colour it by your own), the polished version is worth every buck!!!

After completion the puzzle immediately worked fine. As the outer layer was a little bit too stiff for my personal feeling, I gave it some silicone, but others might like it as it is already. A great puzzle - fantastic mechanism. What's missing now is a fantastic solver.. I am sure I am great in mixing it up, but the rest will take a long, long time (for me).

Thanks, Tom!

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:59 pm

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
OMG! That is one beautiful puzzle. It is mind boggley beautiful! Tom, you are a genius. I salute you. Oh, and BTW I am very very drunk. Merry Christmas Evryone.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:30 pm

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:12 am
Location: Hong Kong/Beijing
Yeah I'm one of the 8. Still waiting for the stickers & ups. As I know the dummy kit is already in my country's custom, waiting to pay the custom fees The stickers should be arrived soon as well~

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:42 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Frank, thank you for your nice pictures. In this case the white looks really beautiful.
Usually I prefer black puzzles, but in this case the white may have advantages for recognizing the inner pieces, too.

I recommend washers and springs (I have cut my little springs into two halves).

I had hoped that the stickers would arrive before Christmas. Bad luck that they were returned to sender.
There is hope for next week, though.

@rline: You see that others judge the assembly easy, as well.

EDIT: Regarding solving times:
Even one of the best solvers I know told me that he calculates around eight hours. He will get super stickers, though. Unfortunately, Tom has forgotten the Undo button on mine

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Last edited by Konrad on Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:53 am

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:03 am
Location: Koblenz, Germany
Wow Frank.
See what you have provoked me to do:
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=2384
Never before I added 16 images to a single entry!

BTW: There is a limit of 20 images per entry. Be aware of what else you post!

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:30 am

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 am
Location: Brighton, UK
What an ingenious and beautiful puzzle!

Regarding solving times:
Even one of the best solvers I know told me that he calculates around eight hours. He will get super stickers, though.
That could be a significant over-estimate. With key details in invisible ink to avoid spoilers, I'd hope to solve the Megaminx in 30 mins, Pyraminx edges in 30 mins, MP centers in 10 mins, MP trapezoids in 1 hour 40 mins, and MP corners in 30 mins, for a total of 3 hours 20 mins, not counting rest breaks. I assume that every stage after the Megaminx is solved with commutators and setups, and I allow extra time per cycle for the MP trapezoids because I find them tricky to set up.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:51 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Julian wrote:
What an ingenious and beautiful puzzle!

Regarding solving times:
Even one of the best solvers I know told me that he calculates around eight hours. He will get super stickers, though.
That could be a significant over-estimate. With key details in invisible ink to avoid spoilers, I'd hope to solve the Megaminx in 30 mins, Pyraminx edges in 30 mins, MP centers in 10 mins, MP trapezoids in 1 hour 40 mins, and MP corners in 30 mins, for a total of 3 hours 20 mins, not counting rest breaks. I assume that every stage after the Megaminx is solved with commutators and setups, and I allow extra time per cycle for the MP trapezoids because I find them tricky to set up.

Hey Julian! I agree with in theory but based on my efforts to solve a physical Master Pentultimate, mistakes are catastrophic. If everything went smoothly I'd estimate 2.5 hours but I'm anticipating multiple mistakes that will require starting over. 8 hours of total effort including the mistakes seems like a reasonable estimate for a first solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:55 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 am
Location: Brighton, UK
bmenrigh wrote:
If everything went smoothly I'd estimate 2.5 hours but I'm anticipating multiple mistakes that will require starting over. 8 hours of total effort including the mistakes seems like a reasonable estimate for a first solve.
I agree; I didn't think about that aspect at all!

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:20 am

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
The Super-Multidodecahedron I ordered from Tom arrived today and it really exceeds all of my expectations. It looks great and it turns flawlessly.

I couldn't resist taking video of it and a bunch of pictures!

Each image here is a cropped thumbnail. Click on them to see the full image.

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Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:35 am

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Looks great. I'm guessing you're not going to tumble this one. Is it because of those wire thin pyraminx crystal edges?

Could you make a video of you solving it? Of course it would be nigh impossible to get the camera to be able to see the detail while solving, but just have a 30 second clip at each milestone / screwup with any thoughts and document the time taken for that phase.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:25 am

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
bmenrigh,

Very Very Nice!!! Not sure I've ever seen the multicolored stickers up that close before. They have a graininess that matches the texture of the puzzle very nicely. A couple of those cropped thumbnail look like art suitable for framing and putting on the wall. They look that nice.

Also thanks for the plug in the video. I haven't wantched the whole thing yet as I had to run into work but I'll be sure to check out the rest of it this evening.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:02 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I want to say thanks to both of you, Carl for the great idea and Tom for his wonderful design.

Brandon, looking at your pictures and the video makes the waiting for my stickers really painful.

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:41 pm

Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:17 am
Location: DÃ¼sseldorf, Germany
.. and if this stickering becomes too trivial, I am sure, Tom can provide a version of the underlying triangular pieces with some sunk areas on the surface to place some stickers there, too

Maybe someone should think about a (holey) puzzle with some mirroring silver stickers on inner faces, which are necessary to see some hidden stickers inside

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 Post subject: Re: Yo Dawg, I herd u like Dodecahedron... (MultidodecahedroPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:31 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Thanks for the pictures and video Brandon,

Those super stickers look awesome! Tom is sending 2 sets of stickers out, does everyone get normal and super stickers, or did you have to request them? I think I need them !!

Cheers,
Burgo.

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