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 Post subject: shill bidding
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:26 pm 
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I just stumbled on ebay's "shill bidding policy". Take their tutorial and you too can feel like a 2-year-old again ;-)
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/sbi ... intro.html


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 Post subject: Re: shill bidding
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:32 am 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
Take their tutorial and you too can feel like a 2-year-old again ;-)

I just did, and managed to get an answer wrong. :shock: This 2-year-old must learn to read the question more carefully...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:49 am 
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Yeah I got one wrong, too. But on purpose, I wanted to see how they react. Plus, the question was whether a banned person can "borrow" the account of a friend and I said "yes" because I'm pretty sure he can. I mean, who's gonna stop him (if his friend allows it)?

But the reason I mentioned that "2-year-old" feeling wasn't only that it's so easy (you don't even have to read the possible answers, just choose the one from {yes,no} that only appears once) but more because of the way they talk to me. After a correct answer they always cheer "That's right!" and then they explain why it's right, basically copying the text they've told me a minute before :D. Like I'm so dumb I need to hear everything twice even if I got it right the first time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:42 am 
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Question #10 was funny. #13 was really really hard, but I got it right on my fifth attempt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Gustav wrote:
Question #10 was funny. #13 was really really hard

Yes, I completely agree with both of your statements :D. I thought the guy making the questions up got bored after the first nine and wanted some fun himself...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:46 pm 
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Location: Norway
Hi :D

I got real bored with it after 3 questions. Does that make me too old? :P

What makes eBay a real pain is not shill bidding but bidding bots. One could eliminate most of this with some simple bidding precautions. One simple way is to use those images where u have to recognice some obscured text. It's easy for humans to see what is written on those images, but surprisingly hard for ocr software. And then a bid wouldn't be accepted if one can't interprete the image correctly. And to take it one step further. If one gets the text wrong, say 3 times in a 5 minute period, the IP-address and/or user can be banned for a period of time.

Just some thoughts anyway! 8-)

-Per :solved:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:10 pm 
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Why would E-bay want to stop bots? They want to have the highest bids possible. Ebay doesn't care if the item goes to you or to someone else. Plus, a image-confirmation thing might do more harm than good. How often have you gone to enter a last-second bid and then have to put in your password?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:41 pm 
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Location: Norway
Well ...

I simply think that bidding bots are unfair. But it's allowed to disagree of course :lol:

Having to read some text off an image takes u a few seconds. If u have no time for that u are really too late anyway :cry: The pain with passwords is that u might forget them when u need it. A confirmation image w text doesn't have that problem and is already in use many places with success to avoid automated use (abuse in my opinion) of services.

From eBay's point of view it doesn't really matter. Likewise it doesn't really matter for eBay if u bid on ur own auctions. It will elevate the price and they will earn a little more that way :?

One more thing that ebay really should do. They shouldn't let anyone have an auction when the auctioneer is not willing to ship worldwide. The bidder will already have paid for the shipping before sending, so it's not like u would have a huge outlay that might not be covered. But as already said eBay don't reall have to care about customer service.

-Per :solved:

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"Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans" -John Lennon, Beautiful Boy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am 
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perfredlund wrote:
I simply think that bidding bots are unfair. But it's allowed to disagree of course :lol:

Yeah, I disagree. I don't use them but I don't mind others using them. Why should I? They can only win against me if their maximum bid is high than mine. You do know how ebay's "maximum bid" system works, right? Actually that's pretty much bot bidding already, so *everybody* uses it.

I don't like that text image reading, I've had trouble with that several times, I claim I'm neither blind nor dumb but sometimes I was told I entered something wrong. Probably because it wasn't clear. I remember once there was a 'c' or 'e' but there was a long line through the whole "word" and I didn't know whether the letter was a 'c' or 'e'.

Shipping worldwide is not only a matter of postage. It can require filling out a customs declaration, i.e. more work. And it can take more time and there are more possibilities to get lost. Shipping inside your own country is much easier/safer.

What people really ought to be forced to offer is payment with paypal... I can't understand why some people don't. It's so easy and cheap. Even if you have a premium account, i.e. with some fees for receiving money, you could still offer it as long as the buyer/payer pays the fees. I'd be fine with that as a buyer. Many other international payment methods also cost fees (and often much more), and paypal just makes things so much easier...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:52 pm 
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Location: Canada
I'm kind of worried about accepting PayPal. Once you get the money into your PayPal account, how do you get it into your hands? The last time I tried to set up direct deposit to my account (through work), it failed, and with PayPal, it'll take 6-8 DAYS to get it into the account, IF it works, and if it doesn't then there's a $30 fee applied (!!!). If it's dumped to your CC, then there's a percentage levied imediately on that, plus I'm sure they'll find some way to charge interest on it even if there's plenty left over to cover it...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:17 am 
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
I set up a bank account that I only use for ebay and my paypal transactions deposit directly into that account. It was pretty easy to set up and I found a bank with free checking and no minimum balance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:54 am 
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Wow... interesting tutorial... I got a couple wrong there...!!! :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:30 pm 
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Tim Browne wrote:
I'm kind of worried about accepting PayPal. Once you get the money into your PayPal account, how do you get it into your hands? The last time I tried to set up direct deposit to my account (through work), it failed, and with PayPal, it'll take 6-8 DAYS to get it into the account, IF it works, and if it doesn't then there's a $30 fee applied (!!!). If it's dumped to your CC, then there's a percentage levied imediately on that, plus I'm sure they'll find some way to charge interest on it even if there's plenty left over to cover it...

Yes, it sounds more like a problem with your bank than Paypal itself :( I find using Paypal easy fast and cheap. If i want to go to my bank to make a transfer to a foreign account i need to fill in a form the size of a full letter-sized sheet with dozens and dozens of fields to fill in. I hate that.

-Per :solved:

_________________
"Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans" -John Lennon, Beautiful Boy


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 Post subject: Shill bidding
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:52 pm 
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Hi Guys,

A while back I ran into what may have been shill bidding.

After bidding for a fairly expensive item, I soon found my bid nibbled away by someone with no feedback. Some time after the auction ended the seller wrote and told me that the winner never paid and asked if I wanted to buy the item at my highest bid, rather than my minimum bid.

Was that a crock or what?

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:12 pm 
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Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Very possibly. After the seller realizes that they "outbid" you instead of just pushing you up (and forcing you to buy it as the high bidder) they decided to approach you hoping for your money anyway. There's nothign wrong with making a counter-offfer, but honestly at that point I would just move on.

Of course it certainly could have been a legit situation with an eBay newbie who didn't know how things worked. Is it possible? Sure. Probable? Hard to say. But being a suspicious person by nature I'd say they were trying to rip you off.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:01 am 
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well... in all cases the safest way to go is the one million dollar bid the last ten seconds...! :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:48 am 
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Yes. That's the primary reason why I use a sniping servive for those items I really want to have a final crack at bidding on without tipping my hand to everyone else that I have an interest.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:55 pm 
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Stefan Pochmann suggested charging buyers Paypal fees. Isn't this against ebay rules?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:49 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Stefan Pochmann suggested charging buyers Paypal fees. Isn't this against ebay rules?


What I meant was that I as a buyer would be happy to pay an extra dollar/euro/pound/whatever if I can use PayPal if for example the only other option is a cheque or a bank transfer that cost a lot of fees, are much more work, and take longer. It would simply be an option offered by the seller, and the buyer doesn't need to do it that way if he doesn't want it. I believe it's legitimate and definitely not against the ebay "spirit". Whether they have a rule against it, I don't know. Wouldn't make sense, though. It's similar to shipping costs, some sellers ask only for exact postage, others earn some extra money this way by asking for more. All that said, I still prefer PayPal the way it is. I just meant to say if a seller doesn't offer PayPal because of the fees, that's stupid because I as a buyer would be not happy but willing to pay them if necessary. Btw, some people are just ill-informed, recently somebody told me he doesn't want to use PayPal to pay me because he doesn't want to pay the high fees he had heard about (just in case some of you don't know, it's *free* for the paying buyer, only I as a seller might have to pay a fee when I receive a payment).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:37 pm 
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When you agree on a transaction, say, 100 "dollars," The buyer would make a transfer for that amount. The seller however, only sees 96.50 or however much the fees are for the use of the service because the cost is automatically deducted. There is no specific "paying of the fee." It works the same way as a credit card.

Some sellers don't like this, as they are not getting the true amount that the auction ended for. But I think it's just another cost of doing business. Let's face it, due to the convenience, some buyers will avoid certain auctions if paypal is not an option and are willing to pay a little more for those that do make it an option.

Western Union's Bidpay is an alternative, but it's one that can cost the buyer a lot of money. For example I once used Bidpay to send someone in Poland $100. The final cost to me was $114 ($14 fee) plus the Time and expense for me to go out of my way to find a place that would perform such a money transfer.

In other words, If I could have found an alternative auction, the maximum I would bid would have gone up to $110 or even more if the situation called for it. The person in Poland only saw that $100, but had they gone with Paypal, they could have theoretically seen a little more. (Not that Paypal is an option in Poland anyway. At least I don't think it is)

Other alternatives such as checks and money orders have their own baggage associated with them, and both have partially to do with the hassles of snail mail (plus in the case of a money order, going to buy one), which also make people less inclined to bid on those auctions.

So is it fair for a seller to charge 3% extra (or whatever) for Paypal users? It's not a matter of fairness, because as long as the policy is in plain sight then it should not be an issue. However I feel that sellers won't necessarily see any more money if they charge a premium for Paypal purchases.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:08 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Stefan Pochmann suggested charging buyers Paypal fees. Isn't this against ebay rules?

Oh, and ... I hope you're not picking on me cause of that joke about UK people and numbers? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Shill bidding
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:48 pm 
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David J wrote:
After bidding for a fairly expensive item, I soon found my bid nibbled away by someone with no feedback.


Something similar just happened to me. I was selling a Black Saturn and a new person signed up to bid on it, and the bid was really high. Once the auction ended and I could see their contact information, I found out the address wasn't residential, the phone number didn't match the address (it was off by one digit), and the real phone number (the one that matched the address), didn't work. So I did a Second chance offer to the runner-up, but not sure they'll take it.

Why would a shill bidder bid on an item that's not their own? It's not like they cancelled at the last second to drop the price for the second place person.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:52 pm 
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Some people will do it just to mess with you... It's the internet. Virtually no consequences for wrongdoers or spoilsports.

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