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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:45 am 
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Doctor who wrote:
Not to stray too far from the current topic, any advice to those who may be considering the undertaking of solving the crazy megaminx series? How similar are they to the cube versions, and is there a circle megaminx to cut my teeth on first?
Probably, you mean by "circle Megaminx" a Crazy Megaminx where all 12 faces are unbandaged? Please, have a look at the specifications of all eight Planets
Image
A 0 face represents one with an unbandaged circle. The pieces inside the circle will not move, if you turn that face.
1 represents a bandaged face with a moving circle.
You cannot buy a Crazy Megaminx with 0 only faces, which would be a "normal" circle Megaminx.
A normal circle Megaminx is the identical challenge as a Super Megaminx, where the centre pieces have orientation.
A pretty expensive way to get a normal Megaminx would be to buy two Crazy Megaminx with a complementary number of 0 and 1 faces. You can then mix and merge the face pieces to create all eight planets - and a normal circle Megaminx.
E.g. you can buy Mercury and Jupiter. These are the easiest planets. The normal circle Megaminx would not help to get an understanding of any of the real Crazy planets.

@Burgo:
Regarding the odd permutation of edges:
I had recollected my Domino method incorrectly and thought I would have a problem to solve certain situations by the set of Domino moves.
My real question should have been: Is it helpful to introduce the Domino paradigm at all, after reducing the corners? I thought it better, not to talk about a Domino at all and just say: We have a restricted 3x3x3 now, where the unbandaged faces (white and yellow in the standard colour scheme) may never be turned.
This would allow Sune, Antisune, Corner 3-cycles, the "Parity" algorithm, as long as the white and yellow faces are never turned!
This would avoid that confused people like me come up with non-existing problems :lol:

EDIT: I had been completely wrong with my remark, concerning the edges :oops: My fault completely!
Thanks Burgo, for clarifying this via PM's. I have edited it above.

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Last edited by Konrad on Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:54 pm 
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How to solve Saturn:

Image

F - White, U - Green.
Snep 1. U R2 U' [(U2 R2)*2 (U' R2 )*2]*2 U R2 U';
Snep 2. (R' D R) U (R' D' R) U (R' D R) U2 (R' D' R).


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Hi Everyone,

I have just uploaded a reduction method for Venus, it is an nice extrapolation of the techniques I used for Mercury. I think it is actually smoother on Venus. This one is for you Andrea, because you said `This does rule for Venus too`.

Here is my reduction method for VENUS:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRHhvP-WB6k
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhcVgXyGnp0

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:15 pm 
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@ Konrad: Thanks for the reply. I rather suspected that a circle megaminx would be little more then a supermegaminx, and I do like your idea of buying complementary puzzles and swapping centers. I'm wondering how close the solve is to the corresponding cube versions, or are they completely different animals. I muddled my way through all the crazy cube versions, and wonder how much more I'm getting with the megaminx's (what exactly is the pleural to megaminx??)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Hi Doctor,
I have 2 minx, Earth and Uranus, like Konrad said, the centres are interchangable (and I wanted to make them all). You also have the advantage of having 2 at a time, in case you get bored, ha. So far I have only solved Earth with CCL (circle corners last). It is more of a marathon than the 3x3 versions. I think that the 3x3s are harder because of the limited faces, but the minxs require stamina. On the minxs you have more availability of different adjacent face relationships which means you have more options, but longer setups. If you have made your way through all the 3x3s you are well prepared to give the minxs a bash.

I don't know how many people have them, but if the representation on the forum is anything to go by, they might be thin on the ground, which is a shame. One reason I was trying to get those You Tube vids up there was to demonstrate how much fun the planets really are. Hopefully more people will take them on, and then we might see more action with the minxs?

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:39 am 
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@ Burgo:
Thanks for the insights, and I believe you are quiet right. The solves of the crazy 3x3 provided many hours of challenges, mess ups and ultimate victorys, both large and small. I found it almost as fun as tinkering with the matrix of the TARDIS ;) I commend you for your commitment in sharing ideas and techniques to help others to find solutions, and believe you have more then achieved your goals at demonstrating the fun that can be had with these puzzles, so that more can share experiences. As such, you have inspired me to go ahead and purchase two minx's that can be interchanged. In light of your advise, I'm going to see how successful I can be at doing the CCL technique that I've done with the previous cubes, and how I may modify it to fit the minx's. If stamina is all I need, and not new algorithms, then it should be a lot of fun. I'll post these variations as I discover them, and would be very keen on reading anyone else's techniques.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:49 am 
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Doctor who wrote:
@ Konrad: Thanks for the reply. I rather suspected that a circle megaminx would be little more then a supermegaminx, and I do like your idea of buying complementary puzzles and swapping centers. I'm wondering how close the solve is to the corresponding cube versions, or are they completely different animals.
As Burgo has pointed out, already, the Crazy Megaminx (I guess this goes as a plural as well :) ) are not a completely new challenge, if you have solved all Crazy 3x3x3. I can talk about Crazy Megaminx Earth only and I have messed it up many times, reversing my setups the wrong way. Yeah, a good cocentration and stamina are what you need.
Doctor who wrote:
I muddled my way through all the crazy cube versions, and wonder how much more I'm getting with the megaminx's (what exactly is the pleural to megaminx??)
Congratulation to this achievement. Maybe, we can build a "Summit club"? :lol: :lol: :lol: Who has conquered them all? (Not many I guess :) )

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:47 pm 
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@ Konrad:
I quiet agree, maybe we should make a t-shirt that says "I solved all the crazy planetary puzzles and all I got was this silly t-shirt" :)
I believe that solving the outer shell should be easy, but I'm curious to see, as Burgo pointed out, if I can solve the inner corners just isolating different faces of the minx as though they were cubes and substituting 2U for U moves. Now that its in my head, there is no hope for me and I know I won't be able to let it go until I try. Thus go the obsessions of a twisty puzzle collector...


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:48 pm 
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I went to my notes for my CCL (circle corners last) sequence for the Earth Megaminx (converted from the 3x3 Earth commutator):

Make a bandaged face `F` looking directly at you and an `R & L` face and a `RB & LB`face. Make the RB face bandaged also. Perform:

R U2' L' U2
R' U2' L U2
Turn cube y2'
L' U2 R U2'
L U2 R' U2'
Turn cube y2

and you will have exchanged the CCs `U L LB` > `RB U LB` > `RB U R`

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:27 pm 
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I have worked my way through the planet cubes and have now set my sights on the minx series. I purchased Jupiter and Mercury so I could create the other 6 from them. I'm looking forward to the challenge, however I must first set aside the crazy cubes.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:37 am 
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I have edited two posts above, where I have talked about "odd permutation of edges" on a virtual Domino.
This had been a silly remark, originally :oops:
Thanks Burgo for your patience clarifying this via PM. :)

I had recollected my Domino method incorrectly and thought I would have a problem to solve certain situations by the set of Domino moves.
My real question should have been: Is it helpful to introduce the Domino paradigm at all, after reducing the corners? I thought it better, not to talk about a Domino at all and just say: We have a restricted 3x3x3 now, where the unbandaged faces (white and yellow in the standard colour scheme) may never be turned.
This would allow Sune, Antisune, Corner 3-cycles, the "Parity" algorithm, whatever, as long as the white and yellow faces are never turned!
This would avoid that confused people like me come up with non-existing problems :lol:

Regarding reduction of the different planets:
I have come up with it on my own for Jupiter an Uranus, have tried it on Mercury and Earth after GuiltyBystander's post and now on Saturn with Burgo's help.
Burgo has posted a Venus tutorial.
What about reduction of Neptune and Mars?

I think I'll leave now the Crazy series for a while and use my time slots for other puzzles (tomorrow is my bithday :D )

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Last edited by Konrad on Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:11 am 
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Happy birthday (for tomorrow) Konrad :D ,
You have some nice puzzles to look forward to!!
You never have to be embarassed, with the amount of puzzles you own and all the methods you know, I am surprized you remembered your birthday!!
I am more worried that people might not understand the last part of the Venus tutorial, because although it's straightforward, it's visually confusing.
Neptune and Mars are so close to Earth, I wasn't going to bother at this stage, or do you mean with reduction?
I also haven't bothered with Uranus because it's so close to Jupiter.
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:28 am 
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Hi Friends,

My 3X3 Neptune reduction tutorial is complete:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8-C7VaG7Fc (UPDATED- some of the original `part 2` had to go onto the end of `part 1`)
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWeHlyWkACg (UPDATED- slightly improved method)

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:16 pm 
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If a t-shirt were made for solving all of them, I think I would actually buy and solve all of them, just to buy the t-shirt! :P haha! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Hi Friends,

I have just uploaded my Mars reduction method:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWh-Dc1xpLA (10:42 Edges)
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B94QnUS_f9U (7:10 Edges)
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lR4pXRWyP8 (11:37 Corners)
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaB4_gKJx34 (5:04 Solve)

Unfortunately, in the end I had to chop it into 4 parts to keep it smooth, even though it is under 35 mins long. (I have tried to keep them all to 2 parts, but I have been unable to twice, however these 2 have been under 35 mins total).

I guess I will have to make an Earth by reduction video too, to complete the series.. and even Uranus. When I made that Earth vid, I had no idea I’d be making all these!!

Cheers,
Burgo.
PS Can I have a T shirt??

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Ok, seeing as there is interest in the T-shirt, maybe its time to start working on it...


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:32 am 
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Hi Doctor,

Incidentally, I don't see any reason stopping all of the minx being solved with reduction too.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:20 am 
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The t-shirt already exists!

Anyone get the reference?


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Hi Friends,

I have just completed and uploaded my Earth tutorial to include the Reduction Method. I think it makes a nice comparison to the CCL ending. I have added the links to show how it fits with the `old` tutorial (so you can avoid the first 2 links if you have seen them), I hope it makes sense:

Earth (CCL & Reduction):

(Part 1 of 2 or 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsqPzf_2CTE Edges- original video unchanged.
(Part 2 of 2-CCL ending) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MglcNxvlSUI CCL- original video unchanged.
(Part 2 of 3-Reduction) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhtNAnhfst4 Reduction ending Part 1 (New).
(Part 3 of 3-Reduction) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tic1-rvX0 Reduction ending Part 2 (New).


Uranus with Reduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5LplovqrVs

And this completes a fairly decent sized project :D .
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


Last edited by Burgo on Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
Hi Doctor,

Incidentally, I don't see any reason stopping all of the minx being solved with reduction too.

Cheers,
Burgo.

Very cool! My Mercury and Jupiter megaminx's (whats the plural for megaminx, anyway?) are on the way, and I plan on swapping centers to make all versions. We'll see how the solving goes...


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:26 am 
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Hi Crazy friends (please, recognize the capital "C". I have not said crazy friends :lol:)
Yesterday, I have received the Witeden Super 3x3x3.
I think that I better post it here than in the very old original thread.
It came fully assembled and stickered with a set of spare stickers.
ImageIt has been discussed here.
I think that it is a new challenge and not so easy to solve as the outline:
1:Restore the shape of Cube
2:Restore the middle layer
3:Restore Crazy 2x3x3 Cube
promises.
At least, I have needed some time to get used to the behaviour of this cube and to solve it.
It has reminded me of the Saturn (white and yellow are unbandaged 0 faces).
Image
You cannot turn the white or yellow faces, though, if there is no complete circle as in this picture:
ImageThe white face cannot be turned at all!

I'm pretty sure that everybody who likes the Crazy cubes, will like this one.
I think that it is more challenging than the Witeden Super 3x3x4 (with two opposite circles too, but restricted to 180 degree turns of the other faces or the Witeden Super 3x3x5 (one circle layer only.)
The last two are nice puzzles, too, but a bit easier in my view.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Hi Folks,

For those of you still interested in the crazy megaminx series, I found a tutorial on YouTube for Mercury.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMichaelCha

He has an interesting approach to solving the puzzle.

Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:40 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Yesterday, I have received the Witeden Super 3x3x3.


I used to find the Super 3x3x3 a nightmare, until I worked up a pretty simple solution. For me, the only challenge was getting it back into the right 'shape', as I always considered the puzzle a Super Floppy Cube with all the parts. This is my two step method to solve the 'shape':

1: Solve the corners (this is easy enough if you know only one or two OLL corner algorithms that don't use U or D).
2: Make use of 3-cycles!!! This is crucial, if you don't just want to be randomly turning the cube in hope that it will solve itself.

After solving the right shape, one has to solve the inner circle. Relatively easy, but still there are some tricks.

1: Work on the inner corners before the inner edges. Use can be made of such corner permutations like R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 and R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R. You can insert the inner corners by doing an R2, and then performing those two algorithms to place the inner corners over the R2 move, and then insert.
2: Inner edges can be solved by messing around with algorithms like M' U2 M, R r U2 r' R', and many others. You can just mess around with them and see what happens.

Finally, you can solve the puzzle like a 3x3x4, due to the restricted 180 degree turns on four faces, and the circle will has to be kept solved.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:47 am 
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My outline is similar to Luke's. Hidden spoiler below
[1. Make two crosses of inner edges on the yellow and white face
AND
position the four edges of the middle layer (between the white and yellow faces.
(Sune (R U R' U R U2 R') / Antisune or the pure edge 3-cycle R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 can be convenient. - A circle face is F)
2. Orientate the corners by a pair of Sune / mirrored Sune - or Antisune making the two circles complete.
3. Solve the inner corners (I use my Saturn CCL algo; see https:-//lh5.googleusercontent.com/_3bMhff42fv4/TYdk97CyREI/AAAAAAAACZk/PhFAAbPCqfA/s1600/AllPlanetsCircleCorners.jpg)
4. Solve the remaining stuff as a Crazy 3x3x2.
]
EDIT: I have tried to improve my explanation above.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Hi Friends,

I recently added Julian's alternative method for the last edges in Saturn. Today I added another alternative. I have had this alternative in mind for a while now and I finally had a breakthrough with it, I have added it to my original post also. I just wanted to make people aware of the changes (additions).

Alternate `part 2` for those wanting to use `Julian's 2 outside edge flipping sequence`:
Saturn Part 2 (alternative 1): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsdmmDABo_g

Another alternative, solving 3 remaining edges, `not a last layer`:
Saturn Part 2 (alternative 2): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7havC06xfn4

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:29 pm 
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So I received my mercury and jupiter megaminx a little while ago, and just plodded my way through solving the the mercury. You're right, it was an expression of stamina and endurance! It was more a proof of concept, to see if I can apply the principals of the mercury cube to the minx. For the most part, you can, albeit with a little more eye strain. The longest part was filling in the inner corners with a 3 cycle algorithm, which I'm trying to see if I can simplify. I also found a way of swapping two inner edges from the F side to the U side without messing anything else when dealing with the last two sides (one bandaged, one nonbandaged) just using F R U R`U`F`, and its reciprocal F`L`U`L U F. If the cubes are like a fun run, the megaminx is more of a marathon!
Konrad, I'm glad you brought up the witeden super 3x3 as that was the first of the circle cubes that I worked with. This prepared me for the Saturn cube as I pretty much reduce and then turn the Saturn cube into the super 3x3 and solve it the same way. Just so you know, which you probably already do, Smaz designed a cube that works and is solved exactly like the witeden super cube but with the added characteristic of shapeshifting and not locking due to its different cube sizes. Here is the thread describing it:
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... =9&t=17059
I have both, and think its definitely worth adding to your collection, if its the crazy/super/circle motif that you're looking for.
Now we just need a planetary version of the crazy 4x4, and there goes my productivity at work...


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:52 am 
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Hello Crazy (Cubes) Friends,

I am a crazy friend, i am crazy beacuse I ordered a crazy megaminx saturn.

Thanks for your posting with the pictures of the circle-cubes, Konrad.

Are this cubes hard to solve ?
The new crazy tetrahedron planets have (0) unbandaged (1) bandaged and (2) without circles.
So the new tetrahedron must be difficult too.
I think there are blocking situations with the crazy tetrahedrons (2).

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
...Are this cubes hard to solve ?
....
The Witeden Super 3x3x3 seems to me the most interesting of the Witeden Super (=cycle) series.
If you do not look at any hints above, you have to come up with some tricks. It is certainly worth buying one.
Burgo wrote:
...I recently added Julian's alternative method for the last edges in Saturn. Today I added another alternative. I have had this alternative in mind for a while now and I finally had a breakthrough with it, I have added it to my original post also....
Your alternative 2 reveals really sharp thinking :) The inner edges 3-cycle is quite original. The base algorithm is known to me since the early eighties, but I have never thought of repeating it and achieving a pure 3-cycle. Very ingenious :)
I have not yet looked at your video with Julian's method, because this one is known to me.
To be honest, I think Julian's trick is more straight forward and less dangerous to mess the puzzle up, but I admire your alternative.
EDIT: I have looked know onto your alternative 1 and I think it is a good explanation of this method.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Hi Konrad,

Konrad wrote:
The inner edges 3-cycle... dangerous to mess the puzzle up, but I admire your alternative.
What I had had in mind for quite some time is the `solving the 3 outside edges` and then using the `Parity alg with 2 strategic applications` to continually swap 2 inner edges. But it was lacking something.

The breakthrough for me was the 3 cycle that `cleans things up nicely`. Most of the time it is an easy application. There is that 1 situation (or maybe a few) that I have come across `featured at the end of the tutorial` that is harder (chances of getting them are minimal), but you could use more than one application to make the setups less difficult for them (or maybe someone can come up with a better setup.. ).

I find that most times you will be faced with a situation where the double application of the parity alg will solve most of it, if not all. Eg The first situation in the video was a `real situation`. After rewatching the video (because I tried to show the difficult situations) the method appears harder than it is in reality. (I think it might be a bit misrepresented and I hope people are not turned off it because I made it look hard).

Thanks for watching it and your opinion is much appreciated :D .

Cheers,
Burgo.

PS Rline has come up with another inside edge 3cycle that he has posted on page 3: (URU' M' UR'U' M) y2 E (U'L'U M' U'LU M) E' y2 and it would be better to apply to the last situation in my tutorial (his is an adaption from CPS in Ultimate Solution).

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:08 am 
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Hello Burgo,
you solve all 8 planets with reduction method too. Nice. Interesting is that you pair triangles with edges on "crazy Earth". I do this only with Venus and Mercury.
With Earth two pairing methods are possible.

I pair triangles with corners on "crazy earth". (tried to make a video too)
Earth ist the hardest crazy cube planet I think. The second is Saturn or Mars.

Are this (your) Methods adaptable to the crazy megaminx series ?
( I wait for my megaminx saturn)

I saw your videos. nice.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:05 pm 
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Hey all, so I think I need some assistance with this. I have solved the mercury megaminx a few times, and recently came across this seemly impossible situation to solve. My megaminx has the silver and white sides as the movable, nonbandaged centers. 3 of the green inner edges can be rotated into the silver face and reoriented, but only one of the pink inner edges can be rotated into the silver side. 3 of the pink inner edges can be rotated into the white face for reorientation but only one of the green inner edges. This gives the the situation depicted, which seems impossible to resolve. Its almost like it was assembled wrong, but no parts have come out. I discovered this early in the solve when placing the inner star, found I couldn't resolve it, but went ahead with as much of the solution as I could despite it. How did this happen, and how the heck do I get out of it??


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Hi rline, I had written on page 3 of this thread
Konrad wrote:
...I'll defintely try your method, when I will have more time (a few weeks from now)...
Today, I have used one of my rare (? my wife would definitely disagree with "rare" :lol: ) puzzle time slots looking at your Ultimate Solution for Saturn.
I like it, especially, because you adapt the Ultimate Solution so nicely to the planet, that was so hard to solve for me.
It is surprising how many puzzles you can solve with Ultimate adaptations. :)

Regarding the notation, you could add that you are using WCA notation
"M (same direction as L), ... E (same direction as D)."
(Many people, like me, would find it more natural, if M would turn like R and E like U.

Have you tried Burgo's reduction for Saturn?
To be honest, I like the reduction method now better than any other (my own first method included).

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Doctor who wrote:
I have solved the mercury megaminx a few times, and recently came across this seemly impossible situation to solve. My megaminx has the silver and white sides as the movable, nonbandaged centers.
I guess you have the standard Mercury with white and silver as 1 (=moving = bandaged) faces.
In this case, the inner edges live in four different orbits:
Image
The light green and pink faces will have two inner edges in orbit 3 and two in orbit 4.
Your picture shows three green in orbit 3 and three pink in orbit 4.
My conclusion: This situation is illegal!

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:19 pm 
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I may be a little idiotic when it comes to the Crazy Planets, but is it possible that the Doctor's puzzle was assembled incorrectly and therefore has become a new Planet variation?

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Andrea wrote:
Earth ist the hardest crazy cube planet I think.

Andrea

Are you talking about using the reduction method here?

Konrad wrote:
Hi rline, I had written on page 3 of this thread
Konrad wrote:
...I'll defintely try your method, when I will have more time (a few weeks from now)...
Today, I have used one of my rare (? my wife would definitely disagree with "rare" :lol: ) puzzle time slots looking at your Ultimate Solution for Saturn.
I like it, especially, because you adapt the Ultimate Solution so nicely to the planet, that was so hard to solve for me.
It is surprising how many puzzles you can solve with Ultimate adaptations.

Thanks Konrad, I'm glad you found it useful. I'm fairly surprised myself most of the time with how it can be adapted. It had the same effect on me: it changed saturn from being horrendous to being fun. When I was able to solve the crazy 2x3x3 using ultimate, that felt even better. 8-)

Quote:
Have you tried Burgo's reduction for Saturn?
To be honest, I like the reduction method now better than any other (my own first method included)

Not yet. I think Burgo has done an amazing job doing all these planets by reduction. He's a talented guy...must be because he's an Aussie :lol:

I have it on my to-do list to work through each of his planets but I want to set aside some proper time for it, rather than give it a slap-dash effort. I don't find reduction easy myself; I'd much prefer using commutators, so I'll need time and an attention span first.

I have just ordered crazy megaminx earth yesterday and will soon order uranus as well. Looking forward to them but I fear I'll just get excited about them and all the interest will have died away.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:27 am 
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Hi rline,
rline wrote:
Andrea

Are you talking about using the reduction method here?


Yes, I solve all 8 cube planets with reduction-method. The reduction-method makes more fun.

I hope that it is possible for the megaminx saturn, the one of megaminxes that I ordered.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:20 am 
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Andrea wrote:
Hello Burgo,
you solve all 8 planets with reduction method too.
With Earth two pairing methods are possible.
It would not be the only one where the 2 methods are possible: I have chosen what I have believed to be the simplest paths.

Andrea wrote:
I pair triangles with corners on "crazy earth". (tried to make a video too). Earth ist the hardest crazy cube planet I think. The second is Saturn or Mars. Are this (your) Methods adaptable to the crazy megaminx series ?
Come on.. Post a link. Earth is my sentimental favourite, it was my first one (I had many battles with it), Saturn has the edge flipping difficulty. Most of my solving time has gone into the 3x3x3 planet videos lately :(. But now I am more free :D . I might get into the Minx, but the Tetrahedrons are calling too :? :roll: . Too many puzzles!!! I believe the reduction methods will work for the Minx, I have doubts about the Tetrahedrons.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:52 am 
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Hello Burgo,
Burgo wrote:
Come on.. Post a link. Earth is my sentimental favourite, it was my first one (I had many battles with it)



Oh. My video is not a tutorial. It's more bad than yours. It shows only the way. My english is bad , but I love twisty puzzles. Excuse this. Here the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJ51tzQim8&feature=channel_video_title Part 3 is the pairing triangles with corners part.

Please don't laugh.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:29 am 
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Hi Folks,

I have been somewhat hesitant in sharing my experiences with the crazy megaminx series. A case of tennis elbow aside, my reasons will become more apparent as I go along.

My approach is reduction and here is my progress so far.

Jupiter - This by far is the easiest and most enjoyable.
Uranus - Slightly more difficult than Jupiter, but again simple and enjoyable.

Now to the dark side:

Mercury - First attempt was to use Burgo's reduction method with the 3x3x3. While it is fun to do with the crazy 3x3x3, I found this to be too time consuming with the megaminx. Also, accidentally turn one of the bandaged sides without noticing it and you ratchet up the frustration level. I posted an earlier response with a link to a YouTuber who solved it using reduction. I followed his method to reduce the cube to pair all the edges with their respective corner pieces and then solved it like a regular circle megaminx. I didn't find it to be a fun and enjoyable configuration to solve, so I may not do it again.

Saturn - Again I posted a link in an earlier response to YouTuber ArvinCubeStore and followed his approach and I could keep up with him to the last 2 videos in the series and then he loses me.

Neptune - I attempted the same approach as for the 3x3x3, however the challenge here is you do not have 3 sides that are bandaged together as you do for the crazy 3x3x3. The bandaged sides form a ring around the puzzle, so it makes flipping a paired inner and outer edge piece more challenging. Also, because of this characteristic of the puzzle, you cannot use some other methods, such as Burgo's last layer solve in his edges first approach to solving a regular 3x3x3.

Earth, Mars and Venus - Have yet to make a serious attempt at solving these and am not sure I will.

There are several other reasons why I cannot devote more time to this set of puzzles.

1. At work, I have 3 weeks to implement software changes and it we have a lot of challenges. Most of them have to do with testing in a new environment.
2. As you remove more bandaged sides, the puzzle gets more difficult to turn and becomes a pain in the arm.
3. I have a load of other new puzzles to get through.
4. I miss my other puzzles, 3x3x3, 4x4x4, 5x5x5, ........

The tone of this posting may lead you to believe that I am giving up on this series of puzzles, but one thing about me is my stubbornness, so I am sure to return and will be watching with interests as others share their experiences.

Thanks to all on this post and YouTube for sharing their approaches and making this journey much more enjoyable.

Burgo, special thanks to you for the time spent in making all of those YouTube videos, I have watched them all and they are well done.

Andrea, I have yet to watch your videos, but will do so.

Check out a couple of other YouTubers, TheMichaelCha and SuperAntoniovivaldi. They have different and interesting approaches.

One other thing, I purchased a Mercury and Jupiter cube because of their complimentary properties and can now make any configuration in the series, along with completely new ones. The centers are easy to change. One tip, use a tool with a plastic edge to help pry out and put in the center piece.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:50 am 
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Doctor who wrote:
Hey all, so I think I need some assistance with this. I have solved the mercury megaminx a few times, and recently came across this seemly impossible situation to solve. My megaminx has the silver and white sides as the movable, nonbandaged centers. 3 of the green inner edges can be rotated into the silver face and reoriented, but only one of the pink inner edges can be rotated into the silver side. 3 of the pink inner edges can be rotated into the white face for reorientation but only one of the green inner edges. This gives the the situation depicted, which seems impossible to resolve. Its almost like it was assembled wrong, but no parts have come out. I discovered this early in the solve when placing the inner star, found I couldn't resolve it, but went ahead with as much of the solution as I could despite it. How did this happen, and how the heck do I get out of it??


I think Konrad is on the right trail.

Do you have another another megaminx, like Jupiter, whereby you could swap out the centers and solve it, so you start with a solved puzzle? I had a situation where some pieces popped when turning an unbandaged side. I thought I put them in the right way, but could not get two inner pieces in the right place. After restoring the puzzles to a solved state, I have never had problems with orienting the inner pieces. You could also try to change the two pieces by removing them, but this could be tricky.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:45 am 
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Ok, so I think I figured it out. Konrad, you are absolutely right, and confirmed my suspicion. That configuration is, indeed, illegal and forbidden! After hours of racking my brain, I took ft38's suggestion and just carefully, with screwdriver in hand, swapped both of those edges. What I couldn't figure out is how that happened in the first place, as I already solved it before, so I knew it was assembled right. And then I saw how it happened! During another solve, just to see if the puzzle ends up the same way, I turned a face and the puzzle gapped in my hands, almost like it was about to fall apart. There was a CLICK sound as it snapped back in place with the finishing of the turn. When I looked, I saw that a silver edge miraculously appeared in an illegal position just below the silver face. This means that the way it turned, the edge actually shifted with another without the puzzle dissassembling! So Luke, you are right about accidentally discovering a brand new planet, perhaps Vulcan (another impossible planet)!I'm not sure about the mechanics, but be aware that if you make a rough turn you may end up with that same situation on the puzzle. This makes it unsolvable and needing to be put back in place.
Thanks for you help, guys!


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:49 am 
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Doctor who wrote:
Ok, so I think I figured it out. Konrad, you are absolutely right, and confirmed my suspicion. That configuration is, indeed, illegal and forbidden! After hours of racking my brain, I took ft38's suggestion and just carefully, with screwdriver in hand, swapped both of those edges.
Thanks for you help, guys!


I cannot tell you how much time I spent trying to get out my impossible situation, so I'm happy I could help. As I learned, sometimes you have to think outside of the box or puzzle in this case. :D


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Doctor who wrote:
Ok, so I think I figured it out. Konrad, you are absolutely right, and confirmed my suspicion. That configuration is, indeed, illegal and forbidden! After hours of racking my brain, I took ft38's suggestion and just carefully, with screwdriver in hand, swapped both of those edges. ...
My one and only Megaminx Earth is so tight, that I cannot imagine how accidental swapping could happen. Had you loosened the screws for better turning?
How did the swapping of the two inner edges go? Have you loosened the screws or has that not been necessary?

Yeah, I know how it is, if you are not sure that something is possible and you cannot solve the situation.
I had stickered my Tuttminx so, that two edges were almost impossible to distinguish. The result was that two other edges remained swapped at the very end.
As it had been my first solve I considered it a parity situation. I was really glad when I got the confirmation by forum members that parity does not exist on the Tuttminx. In clear daylight I could see my problem and have restickered the Tuttminx :)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Hello "Crazy " Fans,

on Crazy Cubes each unbandaged face causes an odd number of permutation ( only inner edges). A bandaged Face causes an even number of permutations.

On Megaminx all permutation-numbers are even.( No parity) But it doesn't matter.
It's possible that 2 different colored inner-edges exchange and 2 inner-edges with same color exchanged. This permutations-number is even. So it's possible to get the pattern. ( 3 cycle with 2 different and one other color is possible too)

It's only my opinion. I think it's very hard to permute only inner-edges without destroying the outer edges and corners. It's not necessary to disassemble the Crazy-Megaminx, I think.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:11 pm 
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ft38 wrote:
My one and only Megaminx Earth is so tight, that I cannot imagine how accidental swapping could happen. Had you loosened the screws for better turning?
How did the swapping of the two inner edges go? Have you loosened the screws or has that not been necessary?

When the first swapping happened, I had not messed with the screws at all, so it happened without any tampering. The second time was after I popped off both center tiles, unscrewed the centers, then carefully switched the inner edges. I retightened it to the same tension that it originally had, as that tension worked best, and was surprisingly easy to do. I do have to say that before the incident I had spent many hours punishing the poor puzzle into submission, so the sweat toil and tears from my hands may have served to loosen it.
ft38 wrote:
Yeah, I know how it is, if you are not sure that something is possible and you cannot solve the situation.
Doctor who wrote:
I cannot tell you how much time I spent trying to get out my impossible situation, so I'm happy I could help.

So what is it that drives us to not take the easy way out and pursue a solve to the end? Is it the pure hedonistic pleasure of the rush of having solved such a puzzle, or perhaps it taps into that deep evolutionary trait we share, that as humans, we are consummate problem solvers, a drive that has lifted us from the African plains of this world to reach the very planets that our puzzles are named after? Is it addiction, obsession, or human destiny?


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:04 am 
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Hi Friends,

Today I solved the Earth Megaminx with the reduction method, it was easier not to get lost this way :D .
[highlight spoiler:
1 Inner edges are the same as the Earth 3x3, but as if with `2 U layers`: If you position a bandaged pair as- D & `the lower F directly facing you`, the 2 upper layers looking directly at you will act like the U Face on the Earth 3x3.
2 Outer edges are fairly easy with setups.
3 Inside corners attatch to outside edges as for the circle 3x3s, I found it better to target the circle corners`on the layers directly surrounding` (but not on) the bandaged faces first (but not exclusively), then the remainder, and last the ones `on` the bandaged faces (exchanging between the 2 groups by White <to> Light Blue & Dark Blue <to> Grey.
4 The outer corners are then pretty basic.
]

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Burgo.


Attachments:
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Last edited by Burgo on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 am 
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Andrea wrote:
.... So it's possible to get the pattern. ( 3 cycle with 2 different and one other color is possible too)

It's only my opinion. I think it's very hard to permute only inner-edges without destroying the outer edges and corners. It's not necessary to disassemble the Crazy-Megaminx, I think.

Cheers,
Andrea
Andrea, we are talking about a Mercury. It has two 1 faces opposite to each other, only. (silver and white in the standard colour scheme) As on the Mercury 3x3x3 the inner edges live in certain orbits, they can never leave. Please have a look at my drawing from Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:13 pm.
Image
The 60 inner edges are in four orbits (locations they can go to), I have numbered 1,2,3,4. There is no legal move (without accidental swapping :) ), how an inner edge can go to a different orbit.
The 5 in orbit 1 will always remain close to the bandaged face which is surrounded by 0 faces.
The 25 inner edges in orbit 3 will always be at one of the 25 locations within that orbit. They can never reach another 1 face besides the silver one. Each of the silver locations in orbit 3 is part of a subset of 5 to be reached by a rotation of the adjacent 0 face. They can never travel down to the south pole.
This is specific to Mercury.
If you accept this, there is no legal way that the number of green inner edges in orbit 3 can change.
I hope you can agree or show me my error.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:45 am 
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Hello Konrad and all together,

ok, i had not understanded the orbits. But now I understand it. Thank you for the description.
In Mercury and Venus Cubes are orbits too. The pink and green inner edges are in different orbits.

So my posting was wrong. Excuse me please.

I ordered a Crazy Megaminx Saturn ( the only avaiable ). Is it very difficult ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:42 am 
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Andrea wrote:
...Oh. My video is not a tutorial. ... It shows only the way. .... Here the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJ51tzQim8&feature=channel_video_title Part 3 is the pairing triangles with corners part.
...
Andrea
Andrea, thanks for sharing this. :)
I have used edges reduction for Earth 3x3x3, once only. I had assumed that a corners reduction is hard or even impossible with two moving circles, only. I have watched your videos and know it better by now.
Very nice achievement!
I'll try it when I come back to the Earth again. :)

Two remarks:

There is a standard colour scheme for the Crazy 3x3x3 Plus. Many people have complained that their cubes had been different from the standard (this seems to be a production issue.)
Yours is not standard. A standard Earth has green and white as 1 (moving) faces, yours has orange and yellow.
You could easily change it to the standard by exchanging the internal centre pieces. The internal centre pieces would have the "wrong" colours, but the caps will hide that completely. If everybody in this little Crazy community does that, videos are a bit easier to follow, because everybody has the same cube configuration.

At the end of part2 (explaining the pairing of edges) the two white cycle corners (triangles) close to the red face are placed correctly. This has happened by accident, right?
At the beginning of part3 you say that they must be there, but you do not give a hint how it is achieved, if they are not.
I think this is not so obvious, given the fact that you will do now turns of the two bandaged faces (yellow and orange) and the white face for corner reduction, only.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve Dayan's Crazy 3x3x3 and Megaminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:48 am 
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Thank you for watching the video Konrad.

Quote:
Yours is not standard. A standard Earth has green and white as 1 (moving) faces, yours has orange and yellow.

This is the scheme painted on the box. I thought that it is normal that it does differ.

Quote:
The internal centre pieces would have the "wrong" colours, but the caps will hide that completely.

Only my Mercury has original scheme. So I must reassemble 7 cubes. I hope thats possible because I glued my centercaps. Are the scheme on the boxex the original schemes ?

Quote:
At the end of part2 (explaining the pairing of edges) the two white cycle corners (triangles) close to the red face are placed correctly. This has happened by accident, right?
At the beginning of part3 you say that they must be there, but you do not give a hint how it is achieved, if they are not.


Yes. It was an accident. The 2 triangles where solved automatically :(
So I sayd there must be white ;).
Ok here the solution for this:

If you hold the cube that right and bottom face is bandaged the top front left and top back left triangles must solved at first. To do this you bring a triangle to the right (bandaged) face up right front. This triangle looks to the right. This is very easy because its possible with the 2 bandaged faces.
After this do L D R' D' L' R
The back triangle in the same way , but mirrored.

I will add this information to the textual explanation of the video.

Thank you for the notes.

Cheers,
Andrea


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