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 Post subject: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:59 am 
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I know there is a article in here somewhere about PI but but I couldn't find it so I just thought to start a new one. :D :D

First off this guy must be bored, not married or like PI just a little bit to much or something like it. You can read it in the link below.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8456677/

Thats crazy!!!! :D :D :D

Me on the other hand I like to recite to the 2nd power. I'll show you below

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1024
2048
4096
8192

Sorry thats as far as I can go for right now. I know its not much but its a start. I know it has do with cells when your a baby.

On a different note theres a number game that I have using the above sequence. Well sort of.


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Quote:
Thats crazy!!!! :D :D :D

And this fellow is a "psychiatric counselor"? :?


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:11 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:

All I know it has do with cells when your a baby.


I also forgot it has 1 more function the binary system.

Binary system easy to learn as 01 10 11 !!!!!

Anybody understand the last sentence at all? :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:14 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Me on the other hand I like to recite to the 2nd power. I'll show you below


Heh, I do the same thing. If I'm really bored I'll just do that and see how far I can get. I think I've gotten to about 250 thousand.


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:23 pm 
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ErikD wrote:
Darren Grewe wrote:
Me on the other hand I like to recite to the 2nd power. I'll show you below


Heh, I do the same thing. If I'm really bored I'll just do that and see how far I can get. I think I've gotten to about 250 thousand.


Thats cool!!! :D Whats your secret on doing it that far? Your close on how far you can get. I think I'm right. I think you can get to the 2^18 power and the actual number is 262,144. Am I right?!?!? I hope!!!!!

Darren Grewe wrote:
Binary system easy to learn as 01 10 11 !!!!!


So do you understand the Binary system at all? I do!!!


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:32 am 
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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

_________________
Jaap

Jaap's Puzzle Page:
http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:56 am 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Thats cool!!! :D Whats your secret on doing it that far? Your close on how far you can get. I think I'm right. I think you can get to the 2^18 power and the actual number is 262,144.

Oh, it's not so hard, y'know... it just gets a little boring after about 2^500.

Concentration is still needed, of course, especially for the first and second digits of the 501-digit result. I would prefer not to reveal the details of my method here, as this particular stunt will be a key component of my stage act as a lightning calculator.

Anyway, no-one here would understand the system I use. 8-)
Quote:
So do you understand the Binary system at all? I do!!!

What!? You mean I'm not the only one after all? :shock: You've just ruined my brilliant future stage career!


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:42 am 
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Mike G wrote:
Concentration is still needed, of course, especially for the first and second digits of the 501-digit result.

I noticed a few tricks, the most powerful one is this: for each number, the digits at prime number positions (with position 1 meaning the highest-value digit) are all the same!!! I'm working on a proof for this now...


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:55 am 
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Btw, it reminds me of that stupid game show recently. There was a question like "How much weigh 6 centners?" and after some pause and thinking someone got the points by answering "600 kilograms".

I may remember wrong now, could've been some other unusual unit and looking for definitions on the web now I see several different. Which is even more reason to go the right way and simply answer "6 centners". Gosh!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:32 pm 
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jaap wrote:
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.


I know they sell that shirt some where. Anybody want the link at all?

One other question that I have for any people that also happen to know ASCII Binary code. How do you read that? I found some place where they use letters. I'm confused!!!! Any help would be greating appreciated. I would give the link but I don't want to advertise.


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:03 pm 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
"How much weigh 6 centners?"

Probably "6 centaurs" was intended; at least, I think the question makes more sense that way. :?

Even MS Word knows that "centner" is a typographical error.

But you appear to be right about the prime-numbered digits of 2^N. Your tip should help me get past that troublesome 10-th digit: Thanks! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
One other question that I have for any people that also happen to know ASCII Binary code. How do you read that?


I work with some people that can simply look at hexadecimal and read strings that way. Of course, some of them can only do it for EBCDIC characters.

If you have to deal with enough, it becomes second nature.

I'm thinking a large majority of the people on this board are computer professionals and understand binary.


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:59 pm 
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Mike G wrote:
Probably "6 centaurs" was intended; at least, I think the question makes more sense that way. :?

Even MS Word knows that "centner" is a typographical error.


Yeah, shows MS's terrific "knowledge". Google for it. The first two hits describe it well enough.

In German it's "Zentner". The thing is that it's very unusual and everybody usually thinks in kilograms. So that's why people automatically convert to kilograms when they're asked such a question, even though the question doesn't ask for conversion (though I'm sure it was intended that way). I'm not sure they would've accepted "6 Zentner" as an answer, even though it's of course perfectly correct and in fact the much more obvious answer (at least to me :?).


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:24 am 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
Yeah, shows MS's terrific "knowledge". Google for it. The first two hits describe it well enough.

It's all right, I had already checked -- not that I believe anything I read on the Web. ;)

At 50kg, a centner would be more or less the same weight as the English (and US) "hundredweight": 112lbs here, but 100lbs US. Hence the name, I guess, as Germany once used a similar system of weights and measures.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:05 am 
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wow, that's impressive....I know a guy who has it memorized to like 400, and he used to know a guy who had over 1,000 digits memorized. all I know is
3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716399375105820

54 digits....not too much. yet. I was also once memorizing e, but kinda gave up on that. letsee if I can remember any....
2.7182818284590.....yeah....I think that's it. as far as I can go anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:29 pm 
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unicuber wrote:
I was also once memorizing e, but kinda gave up on that. letsee if I can remember any....
2.7182818284590.....yeah....I think that's it. as far as I can go anyway.


Next 2 digits are 45. That's all I know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:04 pm 
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unicuber wrote:
all I know is
3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716399375105820

54 digits....not too much. yet.

I'm sure you have memorized 54 digits of Pi, but just missed a digit when typing:

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820...

That particular "9" might be someone's favourite. We should not leave it out. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:47 am 
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Mike G wrote:
I'm sure you have memorized 54 digits of Pi, but just missed a digit when typing:
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820...

Damn, proves you know it better than me, I had only checked the first 32 digits ;-). Well, my excuse is that the book I learned it from long ago only provided 31 digits...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:34 am 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
Damn, proves you know it better than me, I had only checked the first 32 digits ;-).

I know only 10 digits, but it took only a few seconds to check the above using Mathematica. So you win. :)

Many years ago I used to know a number of mathematical constants, 25 digits each. My auditory and visual memory are both very poor (i.e., untrained), so I learnt them by tapping the digits out on an imaginary calculator keypad. This turned out to be surprisingly easy (try it), but the "images in my fingers" needed to be refreshed by fairly regular practice. And it just seemed too pointless to be bothered with that.

This is still the way I remember most phone numbers and PINs. Probably a lot of people do the same.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:03 am 
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That's the way I remember all of my phone numbers.
Well, the way I USED to remember them, until I got a cell phone :)
There's always a pattern in there somewhere!

And I must relate this back to puzzles.... how else would up learn an algorithm?

Back to the topic at hand... I've only got 50 memorized, but it's a nice round number, and it even ends in a 0 when you don't round.

TBTTFox

P.S. Don't you love it when people tell you that you've got way too much time on your hands? :)


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:16 pm 
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jaap wrote:
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.


Nice!

Did you know that some people tried using binary to describe all the changes they observed in nature? That effort is said to have started some 6400 years ago.

Check out the I Ching. I recommend the Wilhelm-Baynes translation for English speakers. Richard Wilhelm's version for German speakers.

David J


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:56 pm 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
I noticed a few tricks, the most powerful one is this: for each number, the digits at prime number positions (with position 1 meaning the highest-value digit) are all the same!!! I'm working on a proof for this now...


I must be misunderstanding, cause I'm not finding same digits at all...

Example please!

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Sandy wrote:
Example please!

Well, take one of the smaller cases, such as 2^253. The second, third, and fifth digits are all the same. I've also checked the 11th, 17th, and 43rd digits: they are the same, too. Also the 79th digit.

Not a very thorough check, admittedly, but Stefan does seem to be onto something here. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Mike G wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Example please!

Well, take one of the smaller cases, such as 2^253. The second, third, and fifth digits are all the same. I've also checked the 11th, 17th, and 43rd digits: they are the same, too. Also the 79th digit.

Not a very thorough check, admittedly, but Stefan does seem to be onto something here. ;)


But what about position #7?


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:44 pm 
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blogan wrote:
But what about position #7?

And what about #251?

Sorry, this joke must be getting rather tedious. Just ignore it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:18 pm 
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I found something interesting on the subject that I was talking about and that was the to 2 the power of whatever (2^). :wink: Cool site I think!!!!!!! :wink:

http://www.freemars.org/jeff/2exp100/question.htm

Read every page and also follow the links as well. It does show what 2^100 is in the final page.

The first page talks about cutting a piece of paper in half a hundred time only.

The second page puts how far distant that is in retrospective.

The third and final page showes you the number and distant in light years.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:44 am 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
It does show what 2^100 is in the final page.


Isn't that simply 2^100?

Nice visualization, thanks, I enjoyed reading it. One sentence I found amusing: "With a calculator that shows enough digits, you can get this number simply by multiplying twos together, in less than a minute." Hmm, I think any calculator that shows enough digits will have a "^" key ;-).


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:06 pm 
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Mike G wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Example please!

Well, take one of the smaller cases, such as 2^253. The second, third, and fifth digits are all the same. I've also checked the 11th, 17th, and 43rd digits: they are the same, too. Also the 79th digit.


I'm still not getting this.

2^7 - 2^13, digits 2 and 3 are all different.
2^14 - 2^15, digits 2,3 and 5 are all different.
2^16, digits 2 and 3 match, but 5 is different.
2^17 - 2^19... etc, digits 2,3 and 5 are all different.
2^20, digits 2,3,5 and 7 are all different...

and so on.

Even in your own example:

2^253 = 14 474 011 154 664 524 427 946 373 126 085 988 481 658 748 083 205 070 504 932 198 000 989 141 204 992

That's 77 digits. There are 21 primes between 1 and 77. See the list of primes below, followed by the respective digit in the result of 2^253:

2 - 4
3 - 4
5 - 4
7 - 1
11 - 4
13 - 6
17 - 4
19 - 2
23 - 6
29 - 6
31 - 8
37 - 8
41 - 8
43 - 4
47 - 3
53 - 0
59 - 2
61 - 9
67 - 8
71 - 1
73 - 0

That's two 0's, two 1's, two 2's, one 3, six 4's, zero 5's, three 6's, zero 7's, four 8's, one 9.

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:49 am 
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Sandy wrote:
I'm still not getting this.


I'm still sure you can understand on your own, but I'll repeat Mike's hint and point out the important parts:

Mike G wrote:
Oh, it's not so hard, y'know... it just gets a little boring after about 2^500.

Concentration is still needed, of course, especially for the first and second digits of the 501-digit result.


Get it now? Remember it's your own fault if you think too much ;-). That's what I've been denouncing several times in my above posts :D


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 Post subject: 2^100
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:23 pm 
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Stefan, Mike G,

Are you guys writing these numbers in binary?

David J


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 Post subject: Re: 2^100
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:45 pm 
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David J wrote:
Are you guys writing these numbers in binary?


Sure (well, at least I do). Why would I write them in base 10 (here I mean "ten", or to be safe: the number of fingers a healthy human has)? That's much harder!

Darren Grewe wrote:
I think you can get to the 2^18 power and the actual number is 262,144.


Actually I think it's not, "262,144" is just one out of infinitely many representations but not the actual number itself (which you can't write down), and it's not at all any better than the other representation you provided ("2^18"). 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:14 am 
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Sandy wrote:
I'm still not getting this. 2^253

Sandy, I'm sorry about this. Choosing 253 was a piece of deliberate obfuscation. But our joke was worn out already.


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:33 am 
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Mike G wrote:
Choosing 253 was a piece of deliberate obfuscation. But our joke was worn out already.


Haha, I didn't even realize your example also works in decimal :D. Now I just don't get the "79th digit" part... or was that just yet another hint towards binary?


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 Post subject: Re: reciting P.I.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:42 am 
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Quote:
the "79th digit" part... or was that just yet another hint towards binary?

Yes, it was a hint. I thought that someone might check the prime-numbered decimal digits... but then think twice about #79.


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