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 Post subject: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:38 am 
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As you can see, I messed up on the stickers. I have ordered better ones, and will replace these pictures with the ones of the final puzzle when I receive them. I'll also make a better video then since the current video is crap due to it being filmed without good lighting conditions.

This is the Helicopter Skewb puzzle, which is a combination of the Skewb and Helicopter Cube puzzles. This puzzle has two very unexpected properties: it is possible to turn the Skewb puzzle by 60 degrees and still make Helicopter Cube moves, and it is possible to jumble the Helicopter Cube and still make Skewb moves.
By using these and normal moves, it is possible to scramble this puzzle in to very hard to solve shapes. However, once the puzzle is restored to a cube, it can probably be solved using only Helicopter Cube moves.

Jumbling+Skewb moves:
Image

60 degree Skewb+copter moves:
Image

This puzzle has a mechanism that builds a Helicopter Cube on top of a spherical Skewb core. It rotates very smoothly and is perfectly stable. I'm really satisfied with the result.

As always, you can order a DIY kit from Tom's Puzzle shop for just $190/€175. Assembled puzzles are also available directly from me at tom@tomvanderzanden.nl.

VIDEO

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:41 am 
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Very nice. I saw it being assembled, it looks really nice! I’d love to have one!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:57 am 
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This:
Attachment:
skewbheli_core.jpg
skewbheli_core.jpg [ 30.72 KiB | Viewed 10883 times ]

just blows my mind.

This puzzle is amazing :D

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:59 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:05 am 
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So which one is better:

1. Solving a Helicopter Skewb?

or

2. Flying inside a helicopter and solving a Skewb?


I'll go for Nr 1.

:mrgreen:


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:09 am 
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This puzzle is amazing! You really did a wonderful design job! I can't believe how many ways this puzzle turns!

Now can you build a little chop on top of this =)

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:12 am 
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Amazing and the turning is fantastic... great job! :D btw is it possible to add a 2x2 into this?

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:12 am 
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Drewseph wrote:
Now can you build a little chop on top of this =)

This is a great idea! I think the easiest way to do it would be the sand mech, though. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 am 
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NICE!!!! I had been given a heads up that this was coming and it still blows me away. It turns like butter. It appears to turn better then some normal Helicopter Cubes I've seen. GREAT WORK!!!

By the way, I'd love to see this proven or dis-proven.
TomZ wrote:
However, once the puzzle is restored to a cube, it can probably be solved using only Helicopter Cube moves.

If true, worded another way, you are staying this puzzle doesn't have any cubic states that a Helicopter Cube doesn't have. Both have 3 colored corners and 4 single colored face pieces per face. A simple approach might be to ask... Can a Helicopter Cubes be taken apart and put back together in a state that isn't solveable? (Not counting taking stickers off). If it can't then the claim is true. If it can we need to look at if that state is solveable on a Helicopter Skewb.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:41 am 
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Very nice job on this Tom

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Last edited by Namegoeswhere on Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:43 am 
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Again TomZ, awesome work! Every day, this forum seems to come out with some other ridiculously complex mechanism.

namegoesnowhere- how big is yours?

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:54 am 
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amazing puzzle! groundbreaking moves! how cool is it that two people have developed their own version simultanously? But how could one be HALF the price of the other??

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:06 am 
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I'm curious how much shape-shifting you can do with the weird jumbling moves. The "bandaging" on the normal helicopter cube keeps you from changing the shape too much. It looks like the helicopter skewb somehow doesn't suffer from this as much. Those skewb jumbling moves are very interesting.

wwwmwww wrote:
By the way, I'd love to see this proven or dis-proven.
TomZ wrote:
However, once the puzzle is restored to a cube, it can probably be solved using only Helicopter Cube moves.
If true, worded another way, you are staying this puzzle doesn't have any cubic states that a Helicopter Cube doesn't have. Both have 3 colored corners and 4 single colored face pieces per face. A simple approach might be to ask... Can a Helicopter Cubes be taken apart and put back together in a state that isn't solveable? (Not counting taking stickers off). If it can't then the claim is true. If it can we need to look at if that state is solveable on a Helicopter Skewb.
With jumbling moves, there is no configuration of center pieces that is illegal on the helicopter cube. The only restriction I can think of is the orientation of corners. I kind of doubt the additional turning places will allow you to rotate 1 single corner and leave everything else untouched.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:13 am 
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I have only one thing to say: I'm starting to save up for it this very second. Probably going to take some time, but my mind is just blown. Congratulations!

EDIT: By the way, the price on your shapeways shop is listed as $90.00/€ 72.92.


Last edited by Katja on Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:14 am 
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As one of your big fans, I can add only: Another master piece! (I'll try to convince my wife that I deserve another Christmas gift! :) You know what I mean! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:25 am 
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Katten wrote:
I have only one thing to say: I'm starting to save up for it this very second. Probably going to take some time, but my mind is just blown. Congratulations!

EDIT: By the way, the price on your shapeways shop is listed as $90.00/€ 72.92.


you need to order two times to get all the pieces you need. thats why

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:28 am 
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I just realized. I apologize. Maybe smart to read the entire text before commenting :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:42 am 
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I wouldn't like to try and solve this! :lol: Very nice puzzle. :D

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:49 am 
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After one skewb rotation, you can't solve it as just a helicopter cube. You'll have a rotated corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:05 am 
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theVDude wrote:
After one skewb rotation, you can't solve it as just a helicopter cube. You'll have a rotated corner.


I logged in just to post this, but you beat me to it.

I also thought of this issue:
Is it possible to twist one corner using jumbling helicopter turns?
I doubt it, but I am not completely sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:10 am 
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Michael Reid wrote:
theVDude wrote:
After one skewb rotation, you can't solve it as just a helicopter cube. You'll have a rotated corner.


I logged in just to post this, but you beat me to it.

I also thought of this issue:
Is it possible to twist one corner using jumbling helicopter turns?
I doubt it, but I am not completely sure.

I haven't found one that does it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:53 am 
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No, that's indeed not possible. The only way to turn a single corner is by Skewb rotation. Still, from cubic shape not much more difficult - just do the skewb move and continue as normal. But jumbled, it's a whole different thing altogether. This thing can get badly messed up, way more than the normal helicopter.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:52 pm 
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August 2010 is probably the most awesome month for cubes IN A LONG WHILE.

The possible moves on this thing are just... It's like another level of jumbling!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:37 pm 
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some day I will own this puzzle. Then I can try the moves it has. I am really looking forward to it trying to solve it! btw. I have not solved the last puzzle I got from TomZ

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:20 pm 
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This is an AMAZING puzzle! I love it!

No word of a lie, two evenings ago I was looking at both my skewb cube and helicopter cube wondering "I wonder if these could be combined?" Two days later, BAM! Ask and ye shall receive!

Now if only I had some spare funds, I could buy one too...

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:30 pm 
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dude that core is like FOAWENRXCVPIOUEHWRQ;JKLH
that thing is so crazy!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:34 pm 
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I was just saving up for DCD 2010, and now this. If Tom and Oskar continue like this I'll be broke for the next decade....

What a wonderful puzzle, I think I won't be able to resist. Compliments!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:02 pm 
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This is such a cool puzzle. Great job

Isnt this a similar situation to when the first bezel/helicopter cube came out?


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:54 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
Image
By using these and normal moves, it is possible to scramble this puzzle in to very hard to solve shapes. However, once the puzzle is restored to a cube, it can probably be solved using only Helicopter Cube moves.
VIDEO

Could't you also solve it to a cube shape, then solve the centers like a helicopter cube, then solve like a skewb?

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:13 pm 
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SHomer9 wrote:
Could't you also solve it to a cube shape, then solve the centers like a helicopter cube, then solve like a skewb?
No. On the helicopter cube you can switch two corners. There'd be no way to fix that with skewb only moves.

I think I'd do it this way
1. Fix shape (still have no idea how this part is done :P)
2. Solve corners with helicopter moves
3. If corner rotation is invalid for the remaining corners, make a skewb turn and goto step 2, else, goto step 3.
4. Solve fully with helicopter moves

Actually, 2-3 could be done by quicker by counting the rotations on the corners, but I just tried it and I'd need some more practice before I can do it quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Great work Tom!

Also, from back when I did this puzzle on computer (ie, no jumbling), I wrote this in my notes:
Quote:
On this hybrid, the faces break out of the orbits in which they are confined on helicopter cube, use of vertex setup moves can be used to overcome this.

Also, a twist of a single corner is possible, this is solve by perfoming a three-cycle of the pieces around it.

With helicopter jumbling moves is it possible to switch pieces out of the orbits to which they are usually confined? Because if it is, then I'd say anything except the one-corner twist is solvable with helicopter moves after the shape is restored.

Also IIRC sometimes the Skewb moves can save a lot on the move-count when you're doing all the face pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:03 am 
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Amazing!!
It seems difficult to solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:17 am 
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I immediately ordered one :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:38 am 
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I just saw the video and it blew me away. The movement quality is amazing. As is the whole puzzle from the pictures already.
And the price is really reasonable too.
This is such a thrilling puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:52 am 
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Frank Tiex wrote:
I immediately ordered one :)
I could work out something: I'll get two puzzles as a Christmas gift, the Compy and the Helicopter Skewb :D

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:13 pm 
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I really hope to own one of these soon =) the turning looks so flawless!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Today I got my sets of printed pieces.
So everything else had to stand apart until I had assembled the puzzle.
Although I needed some time until it was clear to me what would be the right
sequence to put in all the pieces (really quite a lot!), this is not as difficult as it looks like in the first instance. I haven't yet cared about springs, washers etc. but just wanted to see the puzzle completed.

Yes! Great. Even with my poor experiences on assembling puzzles, it turns as expected. Now I have to adjust the screws and probably I will take it apart again to add the washers and maybe springs (not included in the set of course).

And - a nice coincidence - today also the stickers I ordered from Cubesmith arrived :)

A VEEERY COOL puzzle. Definitely worth the price!

Frank

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Sorry to bump this old thread... but, I have to ask, is anyone able so solve the shape of this puzzle from a general jumbled shape?

I bought one last fall, assembled it, and made the mistake of experimenting with the shape before stickering it. No problem, except that I also let others play with it... and it got just a bit too jumbled. Many months later, it was still jumbled, and unstickered. I spent some time trying to restore the shape, but really didn't get anywhere. So finally I gave up, disassembled and reassembled it, and stickered it. So now I can make a more careful study of the jumbling moves, from a cubical starting point.

But I have the feeling this is not going to help very much. The jumbled geometry is just too confusing, even after very little jumbling. Anybody have better luck? This is a wonderful object to own, for the mechanism alone, but I'd be happier if it were also a non-impossible puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:54 pm 
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I can't imagine how u came up with the mechanism's design it's simply amazing!
Congratulation!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:28 pm 
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bhearn wrote:
...So finally I gave up, disassembled and reassembled it, and stickered it. So now I can make a more careful study of the jumbling moves, from a cubical starting point.

But I have the feeling this is not going to help very much. The jumbled geometry is just too confusing, even after very little jumbling.

I think I know how to approach this puzzle now: I need all the exterior pieces to be transparent, so I can see the alignment of the interior pieces. I'd be willing to pay to print a transparent set of exterior pieces, if that set were available separately from the entire print. However, it may be a non-starter, because Shapeways' "transparent detail" has a minimum wall thickness of 1mm, as opposed to WSF 0.7mm. Hmmmm.


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:01 pm 
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I am also at a loss for how to solve this puzzle. But as I'm not much of a solver, that didn't surprise me that much. I've only solved maybe 2 or 3 of my puzzles (not including 3x3 mods).

You can actually figure out the groupings of the center pieces based on how the other pieces are oriented around it. It takes some serious effort, but what crazy puzzle doesn't?

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:10 pm 
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bhearn wrote:
bhearn wrote:
...So finally I gave up, disassembled and reassembled it, and stickered it. So now I can make a more careful study of the jumbling moves, from a cubical starting point.

But I have the feeling this is not going to help very much. The jumbled geometry is just too confusing, even after very little jumbling.

I think I know how to approach this puzzle now: I need all the exterior pieces to be transparent, so I can see the alignment of the interior pieces. I'd be willing to pay to print a transparent set of exterior pieces, if that set were available separately from the entire print. However, it may be a non-starter, because Shapeways' "transparent detail" has a minimum wall thickness of 1mm, as opposed to WSF 0.7mm. Hmmmm.

Can’t you just put clear paint on the pieces so you see through them?

I really am not good at solving puzzles, I doubt I could figure this one out. Without jumbling is this puzzle hard?


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:56 pm 
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eye2eye wrote:
Without jumbling is this puzzle hard?
No, it is not much harder than a normal Helicopter cube without jumbling. You can end up with one corner twisted during the solve however, but apart from that the solve is slightly easier as you have more options for set-up moves.


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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Solve the corners like a skewb, then solve the helicopter cube. It's that simple (without skewb-based jumbling, though you may have to solve it like a jumbled helicopter cube if you use this method).

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:19 am 
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Good luck with that method. Helicopter Cube moves scramble corners too you know.

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 Post subject: Re: Tom's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:45 am
Location: New Zealand
The way I solved the Helicopter Skewb without jumbling, is by solving the corners using helicopter turns first. It is possible to end up with one corner turned when all the rest are solved.

From here you can easily cycle the three corners adjacent to this one using a mix of skewb and helicopter turns, to solve all the corners. Hopefully that made sense.

I then solve the centers using helicopter moves to cycle 3 center pieces, using both helicopter and skewb setup moves, and finish the puzzle.

-Mark- :)

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