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 Post subject: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 8:50 am
Location: chicago, IL area U.S.A
Does anyone have any hints or advice for solving this? I've been futzing with it for quite some time off and on and I keep doing the same things which all seem to be dead ends. I don't really want a solution though.

Thanks!

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:05 pm 
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The only hint I can give is this is the most evil puzzle I've ever gotten apart. I had to look at a solution to get it back together because I was afraid I would lose a piece of it, so I apparently solved it with dumb luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Well... not really a hint, but some interesting history behind this puzzle. :)

The "Enigma" puzzle (as it is widely known) was patented by Eldon Vaughn in USA
back in 1975. The idea come to Eldon when he was still a teenager in 1955.

And despite being such an old idea, this puzzle is definitely one of the hardest of its kind!

Today, there are several versions being sold and some are from plastic. But plastic doesn't
really do justice to this puzzle, so the best ones are the cast metal ones made by Hanayama.

And I can surely feel all the people solving it. It still drives me crazy until today!!!

:)


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:37 pm 
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A lot of people have told me it's the hardest metal entanglement puzzle they have done. I don't get how these geniuses come up with these ideas to begin with. Lucky for me, I just like to solve them and not design them.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:38 pm 
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I don't have the puzzle, but was curious and checked the solution on YouTube. To be honest, it's so complicated that even watching the entire solution on video several times over would only give you a "hint", on the basis that you'd never be able to remember it. :lol:

As for designing these things, the only way I can imagine is to allow the shapes to "evolve" by iterative cycles of refinement: start with simple shapes, try different moves, then modify the shapes to block the moves you don't want to allow. Otherwise I don't think it would be possible to think of the final design by logic reasoning alone, and then just make it without any refinement. But here I'm only guessing, and one would expect such "evolution" by iterative refinement to create fairly random shapes, not the perfect treble clef and note of the IPP30-winning Harmony puzzle (or perhaps that's *why* it won). I would love to learn the method from a real disentanglement puzzle designer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:32 pm 
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*Points at Oskar*


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:33 pm 
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darryl wrote:
A lot of people have told me it's the hardest metal entanglement puzzle they have done. I don't get how these geniuses come up with these ideas to begin with. Lucky for me, I just like to solve them and not design them.

-d


I've solved it, and I wouldn't characterize it like that. It was hard, but not that hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Location: Connecticut
From what I've seen, it's trial and error and refinement as you surmise. Oskar gave an entertaining talk at the Dartmouth Mechanical Puzzle Day event a couple of years ago, where he discussed the design process of what became Hanayama's Chain puzzle - he dumped out a box of dozens (if not a hundred) prototypes/rejects!

http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~puzzles/

http://www.castpuzzle.net/english/castpuzzle/chain.html

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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:19 am 
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Location: Marin, CA
The design process for organic-looking things is all over the map. Some of them have a nonobvious mathematical structure which allows them to be designed quickly, some have geometric guidelines which constrained their design significantly, and some really are designed slowly and painstakingly. There's a puzzle which has been the bane of my existence for a while which in the end will look very simple and mathematical which in fact is very complicated and has had a painstaking sculptural design process involving many iterations.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Rob wrote:
From what I've seen, it's trial and error and refinement as you surmise. Oskar gave an entertaining talk at the Dartmouth Mechanical Puzzle Day event a couple of years ago, where he discussed the design process of what became Hanayama's Chain puzzle - he dumped out a box of dozens (if not a hundred) prototypes/rejects!

Good example. I would have expected the Cast Chain design to require very few iterations, as it looks very simple.

I'm naturally curious about the design process for Baroq because it's got such an unusual mechanism and very tight tolerances. The tolerances are so tight, in fact, that every sample I've handled behaves a little differently. One sample even allows a 'cheat' that bypasses about two-thirds of the puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:41 am
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I've been planning to pick a couple of hanayama cast puzzles up at my local puzzle shop, and this thread has convinced me I should AT LEAST get the enigma :D . Is the designer someone we know?

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 Post subject: Re: Hanayama Enigma puzzle
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Sjoerd wrote:
I've been planning to pick a couple of hanayama cast puzzles up at my local puzzle shop, and this thread has convinced me I should AT LEAST get the enigma :D . Is the designer someone we know?


Scroll a bit up, I included a small summary (the inventor is probably someone we don't know).

:)


Pantazis

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