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 Post subject: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Fully Functional Siamese Cube

I first hinted about this here, but no one seemed to bite. PM6262 and I have been teasing about this for the past few days.

For decades, a fully functional siamese that could intermix the pieces was deemed impossible, and none of the highly skilled designers, modders, or otherwise makers of puzzles ever attempted one. One day, whichever day that was not even I know, someone came up with a way to get it done. His name is PuzzleMaster6262. He came up with a way to modify a couple of different dead, useless cubes into one monster. The result: a bigger, better, harder, but uglier puzzle. This Creature... IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

Attachment:
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PuzzleMaster6262 is the Papa to the Creature. I was only the Igor with far too many 4x4x4s than I would have ever used. It is tight because of my rather horrible modding ability, and is very shaky along the Siamese axis because it is being held together by 2 nails. (Yes, 2) I am not going to tell you how this works, because PM6262 wishes to take this to the next level and would like to be the FIRST to take it to the next level. Being his idea, he should have the honors. I am glad to have brought to you the second puzzle of PuzzleMaster6262. As he stated before, he is going to be the next best puzzle designer. If you think Oskar has broken the universe enough times, you'll be praying Stephen Hawkings is right, because we're going to need a couple spare universes for what PuzzleMaster6262 plans on doing next.

I can finally add my own name to the enormous lists of new puzzles. Hurray!!! This was part 2 of my New Years resolution. Part 1: keep a list of every new puzzle on this forum, Part 2: have my own name appear on the list.

Sorry for the crappy resolution. I'll borrow my brother's 1080p camera tommorrow for a much nicer video. This was just my webcam.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Bravo!

it gives me hope for a certain puzzle I proposed to Bram and Oskar ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:52 pm 
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I'm a little reluctant to say this, but...

Either the quality of that cube is really exceedingly crap, or you just plain faked the thing holding itself together. It visibly moves off-axis on the big slice, and you're noticeably holding things down with your fingers through the whole video.


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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:55 pm 
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I see what you mean by bad turning quality :lol:

I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces :twisted:

@Bram I also would think it is a fake, that is if I didn't design it :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:58 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 can vouch for me, as it is his design. I did not fake this. The wobbling you see in the video is indeed one design flaw. This is being held together with 2 nails, and therefore the wobbling is pretty bad. I've talked with Puzzlemaster6262 about trying to get a better way to get this to hold together on the Siamese axis. Tommorrow I will apply a different, more effective method so it doesn't wobble to appear fake. Then I shall record it with a far better camera that I couldn't use today. That way there won't be doubts that this is, in fact, real. I will update with the better video.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
Bravo!

it gives me hope for a certain puzzle I proposed to Bram and Oskar ^_^

I think I see where you're going with this...

A bit off topic, your collection picture is just a bit out of date.

When PM6262 gives me the ok, I can offer a tutorial on how to mod one of these yourself. But only then.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Rentlix wrote:
When PM6262 gives me the ok, I can offer a tutorial on how to mod one of these yourself. But only then.

Well looking at the quality, I don't think you should make the tutorial :lol: Actually I could make one by just going through our pms :lol:

I can't wait to see the better quality version :mrgreen:

P.S. Have you tried solving it yet?

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:50 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces :twisted:


I'm pretty sure I know what mechanism this is, and I believe it has a serious flaw. When the big slice is halfway done, at a 90 degree angle, the corners which are overhanging can twist off.


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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Bram wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces :twisted:


I'm pretty sure I know what mechanism this is, and I believe it has a serious flaw. When the big slice is halfway done, at a 90 degree angle, the corners which are overhanging can twist off.

With this version, yes. With my 3d printed version, the mechanism is 100% designed to be in a fully functional siamese cube stopping any pieces from being able to fall out.

Also, it is better then no puzzle at all :lol:

@Rentlix By the way, PuzzleMaster6262 isn't my real name...

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:44 am 
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Great puzzle, long over due. I am going to believe it's genuine and totally agree that it's better to have this version than none at all. Good on you for actually going ahead and making it.

Two nit-picking points-
1. 2x2x2 Siamese Cubes have never been deemed impossible. Go larger and it may be.
2. Siamese Cubes are already fully functional. Yes everyone wants this kind of movement but there's no reason to expect it. You have cleverly added functionality. It's a bit like 2x2xn cuboids where you can twist just 2 cubies.

Like I say though, great puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:45 am 
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Interesting. I initially though the middle slice through the two cubes could twist. But that would mean in would need multiple axises that could change. Imagine what puzzles you could create with that!

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:31 am 
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Congratulations on making this.
It however is not nearly such a great achievement as you try to make people believe, and I really do not believe the quality of this mod should be accompanied by such ego when you are among so many genious puzzle designers on this forum who all are extremely humble.
Still I would love to see the finished version, hopefully it will be of much greater quality and be introduced much more appropriately.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:44 am 
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@Tony Fisher
Thank you :D The reason I consider it fully functional is because I consider normal Siamese cubes internaly bandaged. All the cuts line up so that this type of rotation should work but can't because of the mechanics.

If you have a better way of describing this puzzle then fully functional, I'm sure Rentlix and myself would love to hear it. Maybe an unbandaged Siamese cube?

@Namegoeswhere
I designed my version, then designed another version that could be made as a mod. Rentlix had the pieces needed to make it so he did. This is only a proof of concept. It proves that a Siamese cube can intermix.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:57 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces
When you say "this puzzle" do you mean your not-yet-prototyped version or Rentlix's proof of concept?

Skarabajo.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:11 am 
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Skarabajo wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces
When you say "this puzzle" do you mean your not-yet-prototyped version or Rentlix's proof of concept?

Skarabajo.

Rentlix might have added them(probably not) for the same reason they can be used in the super x. By this puzzle I mean a fully functional Siamese 2x2x2 using my design/concept. My version will have them just to help align everything and keep it in place.

Also my version will have a different coloring system.
@Rentlix Why did you sticker it the way you did?

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:09 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Skarabajo wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I will include that this puzzle has no magnets(does not need magnets), and only has 14 pieces
When you say "this puzzle" do you mean your not-yet-prototyped version or Rentlix's proof of concept?

Skarabajo.

Rentlix might have added them(probably not) for the same reason they can be used in the super x. By this puzzle I mean a fully functional Siamese 2x2x2 using my design/concept. My version will have them just to help align everything and keep it in place.

Also my version will have a different coloring system.
@Rentlix Why did you sticker it the way you did?

I deliberately inverted the color scheme so that there aren't 2 of the same pieces. It adds difficulty.

I have not put in magnets, and will not use them for editing the "fake"-looking slice.

@Tony Fisher
This proof of concept prooves PuzzleMaster6262's design for a higher-order siamese can intermix the pieces in a truly unbandaged Siamese, a claim which has been deemed impossible for a VERY long time. I remember a post from you saying so, but I can't seem to find it. Just wait a little while and PM6262's much better one will show, only this one is a puzzle truly deemed impossible. You have no idea how many plans he has for puzzles previously deemed impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:53 am 
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I believe Tony was saying that a 1x1x3 siamese like this was impossible for two 3x3x3s.

I want to believe this is legit, but I'm with Bram on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:05 am 
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Steryne wrote:
I believe Tony was saying that a 1x1x3 siamese like this was impossible for two 3x3x3s.

I want to believe this is legit, but I'm with Bram on this one.

This was impossible for two 3x3x3s :lol:

It is legit enough for people to think what they are seeing is impossible so it must be fake to them :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:07 am 
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Maybe a better video showing part of the mech would end the pointless dispute on this one?

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:13 am 
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Maybe you could call it an inter-mixable Siamese Cube? I also don't believe that you could say that it is fully functional, but that aside: Great job! Though it's not completely functional, it's still an impressive achievement, as this is something that's never been done before this surely is a step in the right direction. Congratulations :D


Last edited by Katja on Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:15 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Maybe a better video showing part of the mech would end the pointless dispute on this one?

Nope :twisted:

I'm fine with a better video and pictures but the mech is staying secret until my "advanced" version is finished :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:19 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
Maybe a better video showing part of the mech would end the pointless dispute on this one?

Nope :twisted:

I'm fine with a better video and pictures but the mech is staying secret until my "advanced" version is finished :lol:

That's perfectly reasonable, and the rest of us should just be patient before casting doubt and negativity. The truth will come out eventually. In the meantime, I congratulate you on this great achievement and look forward to updates on progress with your refined version. :D

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:28 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Maybe a better video showing part of the mech would end the pointless dispute on this one?

Rentlix wrote:
Tommorrow I will apply a different, more effective method so it doesn't wobble to appear fake. Then I shall record it with a far better camera that I couldn't use today. That way there won't be doubts that this is, in fact, real. I will update with the better video.


Mechanism is only staying secret until PuzzleMaster6262 finishes the more advanced one. When revealed, you shall know that this is, in fact, real.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:29 am 
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Bram wrote:
I'm a little reluctant to say this, but...

Either the quality of that cube is really exceedingly crap, or you just plain faked the thing holding itself together. It visibly moves off-axis on the big slice, and you're noticeably holding things down with your fingers through the whole video.

I notices that too. I hope that goes away in the advanced version


As for being FF, this is my idea of what a FF Siamese cube would do.
Attachment:
2x2FF.jpg
2x2FF.jpg [ 80.88 KiB | Viewed 4833 times ]

You still have an interesting puzzle though.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:32 am 
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@GuiltyBystander that is impossible externally as well as internally. Unless you mean the classic Siamese with unbandaged babyfaces.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:35 am 
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Looking at GuiltyBystander's picture, you could make a normal 2x2x2 siamese cubes, but with some kind of Baby Face turns that interlink with each other. So the square in the middle of the white side can go to either of the two cubes.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:41 am 
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If you wanted, I could make a fully functional Siamese cube with baby faces :lol:

Also if a lightbulb pops in your head about the mechanism, please send a pm to either me or rentlix and DO NOT post it here.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:51 am 
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Rentlix wrote:
@GuiltyBystander that is impossible externally as well as internally. Unless you mean the classic Siamese with unbandaged babyfaces.

Impossible is such a strong word. I've thought about doing this on a 3x3x3 where the "siamese joint" is a block of 3x3x1. It might need and internal and external mech to work. I haven't thought about it enough to actually plan out a full mech yet though. It'd be a really cool puzzle to because then corners could have 24 different rotations.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:11 am 
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Again, it is impossible. The reason is simple: when turning in this new direction, the cubies from one cube block the movement of the other cubies.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:14 am 
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Rentlix wrote:
Again, it is impossible. The reason is simple: when turning in this new direction, the cubies from one cube block the movement of the other cubies.

...unless the entire top layer of one cube somehow detaches and rotates around the axis of the second cube, and vice versa...

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:18 am 
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What would be an Oskar style puzzle and quite cool is if you can slide each of the 2x2x2s up and down from the other, and still allow it to move. Now that would be a shapeshifter!

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:19 am 
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That is more of a domino with Oskar-ized corners.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:24 am 
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Start a new thread if you want to talk about "fake" fully functional Siamese cubes :lol:

I've decided that I'll build one of these as well :mrgreen: It will be A LOT simpler and faster to just glue 14 pieces to a string and wrap it around a nail then dealing with Shapeways...

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:46 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Rentlix wrote:
Again, it is impossible. The reason is simple: when turning in this new direction, the cubies from one cube block the movement of the other cubies.

...unless the entire top layer of one cube somehow detaches and rotates around the axis of the second cube, and vice versa...

Comparable to the single pieces in the Lockout?
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=734
There the pieces have to be lifted to allow a twist.

btw: Interesting concept!


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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:57 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Start a new thread if you want to talk about "fake" fully functional Siamese cubes :lol:

I've decided that I'll build one of these as well :mrgreen: It will be A LOT simpler and faster to just glue 14 pieces to a string and wrap it around a nail then dealing with Shapeways...

You say the former like its a lie and the latter like it's the truth. And even if this was just some string on a nail, it would at least turn nicer. I am taking out the nail for a different method, but string is not a bad idea...

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:03 pm 
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I was trying to send people in the wrong direction :lol:

This puzzle does not use string and is not a hoax. I do plan on making this puzzle as well as my version.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:20 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I was trying to send people in the wrong direction :lol:

This puzzle does not use string and is not a hoax. I do plan on making this puzzle as well as my version.

Try and make yours the same crappy stickering job with horrible movement and wobbly slices. No one will question yours.


I must admit, I'm finding it more of a complement that there are so many nonbelievers. If this escalates too far, I may just have to show the mechanism. If you guys are patient enough, PuzzleMaster6262 will blow your mind first.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Buy enough Super Edges! and I might have enough money to make my version soon!

Besides Tony and Monoply, does anyone else think this is real?

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:59 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Buy enough Super Edges!


I would if you told us what your Shapeways shop is!

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:59 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Buy enough Super Edges! and I might have enough money to make my version soon!

Besides Tony and Monoply, does anyone else think this is real?

Think? Monopoly PMed me what he thought the mech was, and he was mostly right. He's more than a believer. Also, Drewseph's "Bravo" can probably be taken as a yes. He had no hint of sarcasm in that answer.

I can't wait for the glue to seal so I can do more than just talk about it.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:13 pm 
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@Rentlix
I also got the pm.

I can't wait till the fixed puzzle video.

If there is enough intrest, I will offer a high quality version of this puzzle from Shapeways.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:20 pm 
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BTW, what's the main reason for the central axis not being very stable in the video? Are you sure you can fix this problem? IF the mechanism is based on magnets then I'm not so sure, but I guess we'll have to wait and see...

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:27 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
BTW, what's the main reason for the central axis not being very stable in the video? Are you sure you can fix this problem? IF the mechanism is based on magnets then I'm not so sure, but let's see...

In the video, it is held together by two nails.

The problem is Rentlix being cheap and not going to the store and buying nuts and bolts :lol: There are NO magnets in the puzzle. My advanced version will have them however for the same reason super xs have them.

The one I'm designing for Shapeways will be identical to this one, just smaller and better(if I make it). The version that I keep mentioning will not be for sale but really shows the capabilities of this design.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:30 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
The problem is Rentlix being cheap and not going to the store and buying nuts and bolts :lol:

That's hilarious - and very believable! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
The problem is Rentlix being cheap and not going to the store and buying nuts and bolts :lol:

That's hilarious - and very believable! :lol:

Actually it's not about being cheap. Nuts and bolts really won't work. You can try it yourself. I sure did.

I wonder who would be crazy enough to buy this thing... it could go for a dollar or two... Even though, being two 4x4x4s, it would cost about $38 to replicate this.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:53 pm 
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A good quality one could go for a fair amount.

I used nuts and bolts for my soon to be released project and so far they work great.

I will give a hint about the mechanism as well. The secret is within :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:12 pm 
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I'm sorry to dissappoint you, but the "certain material" I planned on using with perfecting the inner slice is not at home, though I could have sworn... No worries though.

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 Post subject: Re: World's First Fully Functional Siamese
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:48 am 
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Just upload a higher quality video of the current puzzle, unless it shows the mech :lol:

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