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 Post subject: Massage Ball for the Blind for sale
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:57 pm 
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Location: Yaroslavl, Russia and Maryland, USA
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5944370082

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Aleksey


Last edited by Aleksey on Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:24 pm 
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Here is another auction. Those who had been bidding or watching the auction few days ago - sorry, it had been cancelled by eBay for the use of "like Rubik's" in the auction's title.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5946498742

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Aleksey


Last edited by Aleksey on Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:17 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
it had been cancelled by eBay for the use of "like Rubik's" in the auction's title

What?!? But that's perfectly correct... I mean, it's not one of those wooden take-apart puzzles that also sell as "like rubik"... btw, both links now result in "input error" page.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:05 pm 
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Thanks, Stefan! The links are fixed now.

Now, here is the email I received from eBay when it cancelled my auction. I copy it here in full, as it might help others understand the pitfalls of using certain wording in the aucton title.



Dear Aleksey Baulin (keshonok@yahoo.com),

We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following item:


5945220588 Massage Ball for the Blind - Mint puzzle like Rubik's



However, your listing(s) were in violation of eBay's listing policies. We would
like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of your listing(s) are
not allowed.

Your listing contained the following information:

like Rubik's

We realize you may not be aware of this policy, but using such terms in this
way is considered "Search Manipulation," which is not permitted by eBay.

Search Manipulation is any practice that results in searches on eBay returning
irrelevant listings or that otherwise inhibits a user▓s ability to accurately
locate specific items. This violates the Comparisons section of our Search
Manipulation policy.

Specifically, your listing included a comparison to a brand name product(s) in
the listing title. For example, the title "Gold Rolex watch at a Swatch price"
is not permitted on eBay because it makes a comparison between the item
offered, a Rolex watch, with a Swatch watch. Under the Comparisons restriction of our
Search Manipulation policy, sellers are not permitted to make such comparisons
between items in a listing title.

Use of words such as "like," "style," and "not" in the title of your listing
will often result in a comparison violation, so avoid using these terms in
listing titles except when they are related to the item, for example, a listing of
the movie "Some Like it Hot." The primary issue with this practice is that it
negatively impacts our search engine.

As an exception to our Search Manipulation guidelines, sellers are allowed to
compare the item they are offering to one other similar product in the listing
description, so long as the listing is not misleading in any way as to which
company made the item offered. For example, the seller offering the Rolex watch
could compare the price of the item to that of a Swatch watch in the listing
description, as long as it were the only celebrity or brand name comparison used
in the listing description. Again, this comparison could only be made in the
listing description, and would not be permitted in the listing title.

Search manipulation is unfair to members who may be searching for a specific
item and receive inaccurate search results. Users often are confused and
frustrated by such tactics. Certain uses of brand names may also constitute trademark
infringement and could expose sellers to legal liability.

Because it is in violation of eBay's Search Manipulation policy, your
listing(s) has been ended early. All associated fees have been credited to your account.

This notice is based solely upon review of the aforementioned listing. We
encourage you to review all of your listings to ensure they are in full compliance
with our guidelines. If found to be in violation of one or more of our
guidelines, your current listings will be subject to further disciplinary action,
including the cancellation of your listings.

To review our Search Manipulation guidelines in full, please see the following
link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lis ... words.html

For a better understanding of our listing guidelines and how they affect the
way you list your items, please visit the following page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html

Future listings that demonstrate a pattern of violations may result in the
termination of all of your listings, and repeated occurrences may jeopardize your
eBay account status. We sincerely value you as a member of our trading community
and look forward to a continued successful relationship. To ensure this
relationship, we must respectfully ask that you abide by our guidelines and User
Agreement in the future.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:27 am 
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Location: Nottingham, UK
They are off their rocker!
I bet they really thought that it's a ball for massage, rather than a puzzle, hence considered it a not related item!
Have they seen what a lot of other @#~> is listed using Rubik's name?
Makes me cross! :evil:
Vadim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:27 am 
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Next time just leave out "like". I'm sure they have a script scanning for that kind of thing. This ball could well have been made by Rubik for all they know.

"Massage Ball for the Blind - Mint Rubik's Puzzle".

You may be breaking the rules to foil their system, but everyone here knows that their system is flawed in this particular case. Not putting Rubik in the title will hurt your auction.

I wonder why they don't seem to care that you put it into the Rubik category? Seems to me to be the same sort of evil trickery on your part!

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:20 pm 
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Thanks, Sandy! I took your advice this time.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5948020107

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Aleksey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:37 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Thanks, Sandy! I took your advice this time.


Then again, if I'm wrong, they might get a little peeved that you broke the rule again...! Especially since you may be "on their radar". But really, I don't think they really WANT to be nasty about this, but their own lawyers probably tell them to enforce this type of rule.

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:48 pm 
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Yes, I undestand. There is a gray line when you're using a name that is a brand name, but at the same time has became already a common use name for a family of things. Like Xerox, it's a brand name, yet is a verb that means making a copy on a photocopy machine. It Russia it's a "xerocopy" instead of more neutral "photocopy".

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Aleksey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:51 pm 
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They can't rightfully get mad... the description is just as correct as the first one was. The name "Rubik" is much more than a brand. It's a well-known and well-accepted name for the whole genre, outside of this website here even more than "twisty puzzle". Calling such a puzzle "Rubik" is perfectly alright.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:59 pm 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
The name "Rubik" is much more than a brand. It's a well-known and well-accepted name for the whole genre, outside of this website here even more than "twisty puzzle". Calling such a puzzle "Rubik" is perfectly alright.


Right you are. But it's easy to be scared off by the possibility of having a nasty conversation with a copyright/trademark lawyer. Ever wonder what this site isn't called "rubikpuzzles.com"?!

eBay probably doesn't get scared so easily, but rather than draw a line in the sand somewhere, they just invent a rule to cover the whole area and make a token attempt to enforce it.

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:05 am 
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Location: Delft, the Netherlands
Instead of "like Rubik's" you can say "for Rubik's fans". That generally seems to work.

_________________
Jaap

Jaap's Puzzle Page:
http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/


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 Post subject: ball
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:21 pm 
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Hi Aleksey,

I see that some sellers are using "Rubik('s) type" with no problem.

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:18 pm 
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Location: Dubuque, IA area
"Wow! I didn't know that Rubik's made a massage puzzle ball!"

Obviously, I know this isn't true, but the revised listing could lead a less twisty-puzzle-savvy purchaser to believe that. I find that the revised listing is more deceptive than the first. It's funny that Ebay rules allow an item to be labeled with an incorrect brand yet won't allow a comparison to a brand (implying that it is not actually that brand). Where is the justice!

Doug.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Doug M. wrote:
It's funny that Ebay rules allow an item to be labeled with an incorrect brand yet won't allow a comparison to a brand (implying that it is not actually that brand).


For sure. eBay opened themselves for that kind of loop hole when they made a brand name represent an entire category. Either "Rubik" is a brand or it's a category of puzzles. They seem to want it both ways. Certainly even they don't believe that all the junk in the Rubik's category is official, which makes their selection of the "offenders" rather obsure. You could employ a person full time just weeding all the crap out of that category.

> "Wow! I didn't know that Rubik's made a massage puzzle ball!"

Frankly, Aleksey's Massage Ball is a heck of a lot more valuable than most official Rubik puzzles anyhow. Who's to say that your example unknowledgable bidder wouldn't err in the opposite direction: "If this is an official Rubik's, they probably made millions of them in the 80's, so I'm only going to bid $15 for it!"

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:41 pm 
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Sandy wrote:
Frankly, Aleksey's Massage Ball is a heck of a lot more valuable than most official Rubik puzzles anyhow. Who's to say that your example unknowledgable bidder wouldn't err in the opposite direction: "If this is an official Rubik's, they probably made millions of them in the 80's, so I'm only going to bid $15 for it!"

Sandy


"Yeah, but I've never heard of an official Rubik's massage puzzle ball so it must be even rarer than a Rubik's Maze or Cheese!"

I understand your point though. My comments would probably have been more applicable if the item Aleksey was selling was a knock-off Winnie-the-Pooh cube where the item being sold is worth $1 whereas an official Rubik's cube would be worth $10.

Doug.


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 Post subject: "like" on ebay postings
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Hi All,

IIRC, at one point, in searching for a Vespa, instead of just the 30 or so Vespas listed, there were several hundred others with "like Vepsa" in their title. It was unecessarily taking people a great deal of time to go through the listings and find what they wanted.

I think that a lot of people complained about the practice in other areas, as well. Ebay doesn't want deliberate misfiling, either, so they addressed the most common misuse.

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:49 pm 
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Here is an easy link again. Also, it turned out that I had the word "rare" there, so I decided to remove it. 8-)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5950142574


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