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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:13 pm 
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@gelatin: I did just need to update my version of java. I should be beaten for stupidity. Thanks though!

also, I found a 32-move 3-cycle for the little chop! So I'm about to give it a try. Fusion, maybe I'll be able to read your guide after all when you get it finished :D

Also, I'm a bit confused about what you mean by flip on adjacent faces and swap on opposite ones. Are they 2-swaps? (A single swap is impossible, right?)
Which exact pieces do they swap?
My 2-swap is Fu<->Rd & Fr<->Rf (upper-case letter is face, lower-case letter is which piece on that face).

EDIT: Did it! 276 moves, 34:12.92 :D :D :D
This was the first puzzle I've done where I've had to write my setup moves down on paper.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:23 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
EDIT: Did it! 276 moves, 34:12.92 :D :D :D
This was the first puzzle I've done where I've had to write my setup moves down on paper.


Congratulations on solving the Half Chop!

I think most of my algorithms are less than 20 turns (havn't counted). I'll try to finish my guide within the week, I feel like I'm taking forever with it. I'll post my algorithms tomorrow and see if they help you any. Did I give any useful hints from my earlier post?

I'm going to try 3.2.6 now.

EDIT: I think I can finish my guide for the Half Chop today.
@AndrewG: Can you write down your 32 move 3-cycle for me so I can include it in the guide? I don't use a 3-cycle but I think it would be useful for getting the last four faces. I'll get back to work on it.

3.2.6
I solved 3.2.6 and found my own 3-cycle for it but it seems kind of slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:14 pm 
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sure. I left it out before because I didn't want to "steal your thunder" :P

it is:
(UR FL UR) BR (UR FL UR) BR
(UR BL UR) FR (UR BL UR) FR
(UR FL UR) BR (UR FL UR) BR
(UR BL UR) FR (UR BL UR) FR

other ways to write it: (ie, emphasize repetitive structure)
[ (UR FL UR BR) x 2 (UR BR UR FR) x 2 ] x 2
or
[ Comm(UR FL UR,BR) Comm(UR BL UR,FR) ] x 2

effect is: Fu->Bu->Rd->Fu

edit:
oh, and in the earlier post, I was confused about what _exactly_ you meant by flip on adjacent and swap on opposite faces. so I wouldn't say I took too much from it.
I was starting with two opposite faces, but I found out that I like doing 1 face + 3/4 of another then starting to use the 3-cycle to finish up. and I don't necessarily solve the oppsite face first since faces move around so easily (UR UL UR swaps two opp faces, its other side effects are negligible 99% of the time)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Thanks! :D I should be able to finish it in a couple of hours. This should help explain the last four faces a lot easier.

I'm just wondering now what happened to Doug and why he hasn't said anything.

EDIT: I came up with algorithms for the last piece on the second face for every case I could think of. I hope it helps when it is finished and posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:41 pm 
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yea, this thread seems to go through ups and downs tho. maybe Doug just hasn't been here in a few days.

I look forward to that alg list! I made a similar one for the first face, but it's only 2 algs long + inverses & mirrors :) I started with that on the 2nd face a bit but didn't really get anywhere before I decided to only do 3/4 of it and then move on the the other faces.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:40 pm 
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I have to put the document in seperate pages because it is too big to be one file. Together it is nine pages long and over two MB. You will have to put the pages together to view it all as one document should you wish to save it. I'm glad I got the Half Chop guide done. :D I hope it helps all who read it. I still don't know what the official name of the puzzle is, Little Chop of Half Chop? You will have to view it from bottom to top. Questions of comments? Anyways here you go!


Attachments:
P2 of S.I.A..doc [797 KiB]
Downloaded 111 times
Summary of Important Algorithms.doc [666 KiB]
Downloaded 105 times
P6 of Little Chop.doc [674.5 KiB]
Downloaded 110 times
P5 of Little Chop.doc [532.5 KiB]
Downloaded 102 times
P4 of Little Chop.doc [532.5 KiB]
Downloaded 87 times
P3 of Little Chop.doc [664.5 KiB]
Downloaded 96 times
P2 of Little Chop.doc [663.5 KiB]
Downloaded 89 times
P1 to Little Chop.doc [366.5 KiB]
Downloaded 109 times

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:16 pm 
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I think Half Chop would be a more appropriate name, as it is a deep cut puzzle, so half of the puzzle is always being turned.


I'll have to download the guide when i get the time. Thanks again Fusion. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:45 pm 
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*applause*

I downloaded it and put it all into one word document. I looked over it a little but I'll have to actually go through it tomorrow or monday (I'm going to be out of town this weekend).

although, from just skimming, it looks like I totally missed the importance of UR UF UB UF UR.
I have this written down in my notes:
UF UB UF actually does something. It's actually a 2-swap! It swaps the FR/BR pieces on the R face and the FL/BL pieces on the L face. I suppose by symmetry UB UF UB is identical.
What if you conjugate it with UR? then it sortof becomes a 1-swap because two of the swapped pieces are in a solved face!


Now obviously, what I wrote isn't correct. Perhaps that is why I wasn't able to use that correctly! :roll:

oh yea, what do S,N,C, & P refer to?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:55 pm 
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I'm glad I could help out on this puzzle!

When I used S, N, C, P, I went for for something you probably would remember.

S: Second Side
N: Not that hard to fix (makes sense when you look at the picture)
C: Case 1, 2, 3, for the last piece since it was hard to figure out the algorithms unlike N
P: Part 1 and 2 since you needed to flip the pieces and then fix the other side to solve it
S, N, C, P, would also say those algorithms are important to remember as you can use some of them anywhere to help you solve it.

I'm going to try 3.3.8 and then try tackling the Half Chop-2x2 Hybrid.

I think I remember the.drizzle saying somewhere he knew how to make a real Half Chop but I can't remember where. I'll try to P.M. him tomorrow and see if I he does know or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:23 pm 
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8ce916d32c6798ce31e51acb34e619cd

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Congrats Noah!

Looks like Lorgio Teodovich solved the Super-Pentultimate. I still don't know how to do the regular Pentultimate. I'll go mess with it and the Half Chop-2x2 hybrid.

AndrewG: are you going to put up a guide on your website for the Half Chop?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:18 pm 
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hey, got back in town yesterday, I'm busy until tomorrow. but yes, eventually I want to put guides on my website for as many puzzles as I can solve.

Oh, I solved the Master Skewb on the UMC program while I was gone tho :)
I think I might do the N-Skewb guides first.

The home page of the website I'm making is here.
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/umchome.html
I started on it a few months ago, then stopped working on it for a while. Now I've found a sort of "template" I'm happy with so I'll be able to make many more guides quickly soon, hopefully. The Octa F2-4 and the 3.3.3 guide I put up earlier use that style. I have several more (10+) nearly finished on my computer right now but not up on the site yet (mostly I just need to make teh pictures, etc)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Congratulations on solving the Master Skewb! I have had trouble with the Master Skewb. I'll try to work on it more though, but I have other puzzles that need solving first. I think I have figured out a 3-cycle on the Half Chop-2x2 Hybrid though. So I am close to solving that. I'll try to solve some more new puzzles to put on your website. :) The Half Chop-2x2 Hybrid is hard to get a third side.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:37 am 
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I have encountered a problem on the super-megaminx (1.1.1b). I have solved everything except one mis-oriented edge. Is this actually possible or is it an error?

EDIT: I tried again and this time I solved it...


Attachments:
File comment: Solved
super-megaminx 2.GIF
super-megaminx 2.GIF [ 82.43 KiB | Viewed 3577 times ]
File comment: Only the yellow-green edge is mis-oriented.
super-megaminx.GIF
super-megaminx.GIF [ 82.41 KiB | Viewed 3574 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:42 am 
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Good job! You did not have one flipped edge but two flipped edges. You had the Red-Orange edge flipped as well. It is hard to tell the difference between Red and Orange sometimes.

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| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:40 pm 
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fusion wrote:
I still don't know how to do the regular Pentultimate.

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=8761

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Thank you, fusion; that clears things up.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:05 pm 
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I have solved 3.4.8 with the help of joey. It wasn't that complicated so to solve either. I'll do it again later and I'll post a guide if you guys want me too.

My method:
Centers - Skewb
Corners - Skewb+3x3 (in case you get the one corner twist parity)
Edges - Skewb+3x3 (cycling and flipping edges)
Triangle Bit - Skewb (algorithm to twist two corners across from each other)

I'll look for another one to solve.


Attachments:
PuzzlePic2.JPG
PuzzlePic2.JPG [ 55.98 KiB | Viewed 3575 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:08 pm 
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fusion wrote:
I have solved 3.4.8 with the help of joey. It wasn't that complicated so to solve either. I'll do it again later and I'll post a guide if you guys want me too.

My method:
Centers - Skewb
Corners - Skewb+3x3 (in case you get the one corner twist parity)
Edges - Skewb+3x3 (cycling and flipping edges)
Triangle Bit - Skewb (algorithm to twist two corners across from each other)

I'll look for another one to solve.

Can you explain this one a bit more in detail?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:10 pm 
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I made a little print out sheet check list thing out of boredom.

It's in a Excel Document as well as a PDF.


Attachments:
GelatinBrainCheckoffTemplate.pdf [130.65 KiB]
Downloaded 93 times
GelatinBrainCheckoffTemplate.xls [34.5 KiB]
Downloaded 78 times

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:27 pm 
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This is a bit off topic, but can someone give me a hint on how you solve the 3x3 dino, without messing up the centers?

I found a simple (and tedious) 2 swap for the centers, but it's not really that helpful. and if I solved the centers this way, my movecount and solve time would be embarrasingly high.

anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:31 pm 
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I will make a small guide to solve 3.4.8.

Noah:
I like your checkoff list of the puzzles. I have only one question: what do the numbers next to our name mean?

Percy:
You have to use set-up moves, solve a corner restore centers, etc. Noah wrote up a small method of things to solve in order. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7830 Its almost at the bottom of the page. Avoid the parity.

I will look for more puzzles to solve.

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| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:42 pm 
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fusion wrote:
I have only one question: what do the numbers next to our name mean?

The number of puzzles we have solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:22 pm 
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Solved 3.2.5!!! -
Attachment:
PuzzlePic2.JPG
PuzzlePic2.JPG [ 55.58 KiB | Viewed 3561 times ]


The centers aren't hard to do at all. The corners though give me a bit of trouble. I'll try this one again and maybe write down a couple of algorithms as I did write down any or come up with any.

My method:
Solve the corners first.
Then solve the centers.

I'm going to find another one.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Hey everyone, I got the program about a week ago and have solved a bunch of puzzles. Early this morning I wanted to try and solve the gigaminx. However I cant tun the inside slices. For instance I could only it like a megaminx. Has any one has this problem or know how to fix it??

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:45 pm 
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hold down the shift key as you click. that selects the inner slice :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:28 am 
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Wala! The first serious installment of the new-style puzzle guides on my site. I did delete all the only ones, sorry, I was looking for a fresh start. :D

http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/umchome.html

edit:
oh yea, and I guess now could be a good time to mention how I plan on classifying these puzzles.
I chose the 8 cube "sequences" to be the fundamental hexahedra. there are a few "combination" puzzles in between them. a combination would be like 3.3.2 is a combination of EA2/3.3.1 and EB1/3.3.3 but NOT a hybrid.

hybrids come in several types, and need not have two different cut _types_, they need only include the cuts of two different puzzles. for instance Skewb+Lattice cube is a hybrid

Perfect, Strong, Weak, Uniform hybrids
Perfect - indistinguishable from either constituent before you move it (example: little chop+dino)
Strong - indistinguishable from only one/some constituent(s) before you move it (ex: bevel+2x2x2)
Weak - distinguishable from all constituents ("everything else" category)
Uniform - all stickers congruent (and/or perhaps other things) (example: SuperX is weak but uniform)

I haven't quite decided on the "notation" & some specifics but how does that sound?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:05 am 
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I like your new revisions! :D We now just need to add onto it with the other puzzles. I solved 3.4.8 and 3.2.5 above and they really aren't that hard. I did come up with a few algorithms on 3.4.8 but really nothing on 3.2.5 as getting the corners was just watching what I was doing. On 3.2.5 though it is like the Skewb in that you can't take the three triangular pieces on the corners and move them to the corner adjacent to them. That is why the corners aren't hard to solve. I'll try to solve another one, and I noticed all but on of the 3.2's are solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:20 am 
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Woohoo, take that stupid 3x3 dino!

Unfortunately, I still have no idea how to solve the parity :|


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:07 am 
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ok so I solve Cube VB3 (next after Lattice Cube) and now I'm pretty sure that's "all there is to do" for that puzzle, any order should work in pretty much the same (easy) way.

one thing interesting, is that the puzzle always has only 2-color pieces, but in high orders the two stickers which are on the same piece may be quite far away from each other (in the same way that the centers of a 9x9x9 are the same peice but are far away).

edit: did a 3.3.3 solve. 95 minutes, 714 moves 8-) Also I think I have enough algs for 3.3.5 but I haven't solved it yet (I might look for some better algs for a bit)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Finished Cube EC1/3.3.5! 907 moves and 94 minutes, alot of 3.3.3 algs and ideas are useful.

I expected an even number of moves though? (scramble is 200 moves on UMC)
Each move is an odd permutation, but I had figured before that any identity on an "odd-perm" puzzle (like 2x2x2 or Heli Cube) is an even number of moves...
Thoughts? There are ways to "cheat" the UMC program a bit but I don't think that's what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:10 am 
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Noah wrote:
I made a little print out sheet check list thing out of boredom.

It's in a Excel Document as well as a PDF.

DUDE! That rocks! (now if only my printer hadn't ran out of ink...)

====
Top Solutionists
Noah Hevey 97
Campbell 80
Michael Gottlieb 77
Doug Cube 50
Fusion 45
====
I am 4th, and I have Fusion beat by a tiny bit. 2nd and 3rd are kinda close together as well. It's clear now just how high Noah is ahead of us. For me to catch up to Campbell will be really tough. I wasn't trying as hard as I should be perhaps.

Just now I did 1 attempt on the Gigaminx and got 1:00:30 using 724 turns. I also did 1.1.13. So this helps my tally, taking it to 52. There's 25 more to tie Michael.

1.1.6 is quite infuriating for me right now and I think it's best to skip it once again. Doing 6.1.3 would probably help me more. Since it seems I'm the main Spherical guy.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:08 am 
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Glad to see you back Doug!! While you were gone some more new puzzles were solved. I don't remember if you have solved 3.3.3 before but AndgrewG figured it out with some good algorithms. I think I should start solving a lot more puzzles on there as well.

AndrewG
I don't know Skewb notation and couldn't find a website that had your notation on it. I am close to solving the Master Skewb on my own though. :D Now I will give a go at solving 3.3.5. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:50 am 
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For the never before solved 6.1.3 I attached an image with everything solved except it seems that two *individual* pieces need to be swapped!

How to do this shall be my secret... I just did the same case but on the opposite orbital to get to this point.

Strange that I solved the other 2 of this type without figuring out a pure 3-cycle alg. But now I finally have one. This is going to be sick!

BTW, for those curious on how to begin with the 6.1.x - it's a lot like how on the Sq-1 you can start by turning it into "cube-shape" - you have to turn this puzzle into the right shape and you can do so using 2x2 methods, since there is always 2x2 cuts as it turns out.


-Doug


Attachments:
Spherical_parity.JPG
Spherical_parity.JPG [ 56.69 KiB | Viewed 3562 times ]

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:12 am 
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I will have to solve one of those spherical puzzles sometime. Good luck with the parity Doug. I did figure out the Master Skewb. I found that after a few minutes of playing with it that it is just like 3.2.6 with the center parts. So I solved it using my own 3-cycle I used on 3.2.6. Now I need to find another one to sovle.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Noah wrote:
Beware the parity on the Icosamate.

http://i30.tinypic.com/10cruom.jpg


OMG, I just hit exactly that case of being 2/5 turn off on a corner. But on the upside, I'm only 120 turns into the solve. And your solution was 761 turns. This is one crazy parity issue...

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:39 pm 
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2.2.6 Icosa-Pentultimate:

So it turns out that for that pseudo-parity, you do the usual and make the desired turn of that corner and then 5-cycle the rest back to where they were. I just solved it in 42.30 using 379 turns on my first try. Compare to Noah's 42.07... there seems to be a pattern here with me being +/- 1s away on a lot of puzzles.

First I found a 2-2 center cycle of 12 turns (easy enough to find) so...
My solution is to permute the corners and then orient them. Permuting is done with a 4 turn alg. Orienting is done with that same alg repeated twice, and then double again on 2/5 or 3/5 turns (but using inverse, it is always possible to orient a corner using only 16 turns and not affect any of the CP). I do start the corners by solving a triad on one face (so analogous to a layer of corners), then I extend with 3 more that line up to those and so forth. You are bound (well 80% chance) to hit the pseudo-parity I was talking about and will have to deal with it accordingly.

After corners are fully completed, say at around 200 turns, then I solved centers in a rather tedious fashion. The idea was to search for centers that belong 2/5 turn away and shoot them over using a 12 turn alg. so each 12 turns gave me 1 center (went for speed here I suppose). Since there are 20 centers, this takes a long time (although the probability is cut a bit with opposites alike). Then the end game was a bit challenging of course.


-Doug

edit: using what I learned from 2.2.6, I just solved the Skweb for the first time. Ya! Knocked off FIVE more puzzles in one day.

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Hints to 3.4.8:

1. Solve centers - Skewb

2. Solve corners - 3x3+Skewb
If you get one corner twisted in place do a Skewb turn on the twisted corner. Then solve the three centers it rotated again without disturbing the corners and then solve the cornes like 3x3 again. Keep doing this until all corners are oriented correctly.

3. Solve edges - 3x3+Skewb
You use Skewb set-up moves and 3x3 3-cycles to get the 3x3 edges like in the picture.
Attachment:
PuzzlePic2.JPG
PuzzlePic2.JPG [ 31.7 KiB | Viewed 3563 times ]

Though you might come up against the situation where you have to 3-cycle in one face.
Attachment:
puzzle.JPG
puzzle.JPG [ 92.49 KiB | Viewed 3571 times ]


4. Solve the bits next to the corners - Skewb+3x3
To cycle the little bits next to the corners I use corner orienting algorithms from http://www.thedryeraseboard.com...step4
Once you have cycled the bits in the edges to their correct places, all you have to do is solve it like a 3x3 after that and it is solved.

If you have any questions just ask.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:22 pm 
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made good use of my day off today :)
made some updates to the website!
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/umchome.html

Added guides for:
3.3.5/Cube EC1
3.3.7/Cube ED2/Little Chop
Cube VB3, "Professor Lattice Cube"

SuperX/Cube FA2VB1
2x2x2+Helicopter hybrid (Cube FA2EA2)
3x3x3+Order 3 heli hybrid (Cube FA3EA3)

and something of the terminology I plan on using, especially for hybrids. also I "expanded" the tables a bit to try to show where I'm trying to go with this.

Solved FA4EA4, although I don't have a _good_ solution to a parity which is possible. parity is also in the way for Cube FA3EB1. I can solve teh parity with the "make a twist and resolve" method but I haven't made anything better yet. Also did Dino+Little Chop, but its easier than the Little chop by itself.

I really want to get to the 4x4 SuperX next :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:22 am 
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Well idk exactly where I am in the top solutionist list but I do need to solve quite a few more to catch up to you guys. I have only solved 34 of them. I don't even know where to continue solving. Any suggestions? So far I've solve these:

1.1.1 (Megaminx)
1.1.1b (Super-Megaminx)
1.1.2
1.1.3 (Pyraminx Crystal)
1.1.9 (Gigaminx)
1.1.10
1.1.11
1.1.12 (Impossiball)
1.2.1
2.2.1 (Lee Tutt's Pyracosaminx)
2.2.2 (Icosaminx)
2.2.8 (Dogic (10-color))
2.2.8b (Dogic (12-color))
2.2.11 (Alexander's Star (10-color))
3.1.x (2x2-7x7)
3.2.1 (Skewb)
3.2.4 (Dino Cube)
3.2.7 (Lattice Cube)
3.3.1 (Helicopter Cube)
3.6.1 (2x2x2 Maze Cube)
4.1.1 (Skewb Diamond)
4.2.1 (Trajber's Octahedron)
4.2.2 (Magic Octahedron)
5.1.1
5.1.2 (Pyraminx)
5.1.3 (Halpern-Meier Pyramid)
5.1.4 (Master Pyraminx)
5.1.5
5.2.1

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:02 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Well idk exactly where I am in the top solutionist list but I do need to solve quite a few more to catch up to you guys. I have only solved 34 of them. I don't even know where to continue solving. Any suggestions?


Go in order until you either get stuck or get bored and then skip to the next type of puzzle. Within a type, they generally increase in difficulty and you should solve the lower-order ones first. If you enjoy a certain "shape" then try it's DUAL. So like the dual of a 'Face-Turning Octahedron' would be a ' Vertex-Turning Hexahedron'. In an earlier post here, Noah posted a fairly useful PDF and Excel sheet for keeping track th one's you've solved. It's also very useful to use the Hi-Score page here: http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... anking.htm

Expanding out on the 12-sided guys will give you a lot of general insight for other puzzles, and the 4-sided ones are fairly fast to do but due to the restrictions poses an entirely different challenge. Bookmark the page on every computer and solve some every change you get (tv commercials, waiting for big downloads) and if you want to get really competitive you are going to have to set aside entire days for it like I am apparently doing today. I solved almost 20 new puzzles in the last 24 hours.

34 is a good start. I'm at around 67 I believe - I have to catch up with Michael.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:42 am 
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4.1.10, the huge 8-sided beast of a puzzle

I just solved it in 1:05.34 using 495 turns (less than the scramble!). It's a lot less moves than Campbell even. I was initially working up the 4.1.x list and got halfway but then had to try this one. I am now fairly confident I can work down from there to rack up a lot more points.

I also solved the '4x4 maze' and the '4x4 arrows' today.

So for 4.1.10, I tried a few ideas before arriving at the approach I succeeded with. I realized that because it was "face-turning" I should visualize it as a 5x5 and use a reduction method. This way of starting gives a good speed-boost and helps with turn-count I think. Doing centers is very fast here.

The edges consist of three types of pieces: the central edge (long bar), what I will call 'wings' which are 2-stickered, and the small 1-stickered pieces that kiss the physical edge of the puzzle.

I know that I have a short alg to cycle the 2-stickered ones without disturbing anything else. Next I stared at it really hard, and noticed that the 1-stickered pieces are a lot like the 'oblique-centers' on a 6x6/7x7 with each half being on separate orbitals! I solved then one orbital at a time using what I normally use for 5x5 edge pairing. By solve, I mean to align them to the appropriate central-edge.

Next I solve the induced 'Dino Octa' (4.1.3). Here I start by solving all the edge triplets first, aligning them to the correct center group, which is analogous to doing an "Edges-First" 3x3 solve. Then I pick 4 non-adjacent faces and solve them further by doing the 1-stickered pieces next to the corner tips. It's hard to explain but just solve the Dino Octa...

Then there is a magical 4-turn alg that I can commutate with a single face turn for 3-cycles of the final pieces - the small 2-stickered edge pieces. On this step I noticed there might be some "separated orbitals issue" there too, but that wasn't important for me.

If I were to solve it again it would be much faster... as I spent most of the time watching tv, with the timer running.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:09 am 
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Puzzlemaster42 wrote:
fusion wrote:
How are you supposed to turn one center 90 degrees?

I was doing great until that popped up and I can't figure out how to rotate it 90 degrees. I tried switching some centers but that didn't work either.


There are 4 different types of corners, two with no specific orientation (mirror images of each other), and 2 sets of 3 identical corners. If you swap 2 identical corners, diagonally opposite each other, it will also rotate the center 90 degrees.


This is true. So you can just pick your favorite PLL which swaps 2-corner and 2-edges, but then you had better pick two identical edges or have to bring in a third to 3-cycle back afterwards.

Initially when reading the original question (and after laughing at the screen cap provided), my gut instinct was to do a slice turn like M, to cycle 4 centers (and 4 edges). Then fix things from there, but the answer Puzzlemaster42 gave is much cleaner.

Somehow I managed not to run into that on either the '3x3 arrow' or '4x4 arrow'... we'll see what happens when I try the 5x5 version. And btw the 5x5 arrow cube will probably be a ton easier to deal with than the 5x5 maze cube, which I'll also be attempting.

AH! I know why. I solve the two (far-)opposite 2x2x2 chunks first - the two surrounding the corners that have no specific orientation. So essentially I have the center orientation solved before doing "the ring". By proceeding this way, I get more opportunities to utilize identical pieces in the crud portions (unsolved locations).


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:41 am 
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I solved the Dogic on my first attempt but it didn't take my solve for some reason. :? I am not sure if it needs to be a certain way for it to be solved so I have a picture below.


Attachments:
solved.JPG
solved.JPG [ 53.85 KiB | Viewed 3558 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:37 am 
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@doug: thanks for the advice although I still don't understand what you mean by dual

@fusion: although every face is one color, opposite faces also have to be the same color for it to be considered solved. this should be very, very easy to fix


I just solved 1.1.4! It took me far too long and I used way too many moves but I'm more concerned with the actual solve than the time or moves ranking.

Is it just me or is 1.1.5 the exact same as 1.1.4 but without the corners?


Attachments:
solved.GIF
solved.GIF [ 76.38 KiB | Viewed 3557 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:01 pm 
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@danny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_polyhedron

dual puzzles often share alot of important properties, the commonly familiar example is the skewb and skewb diamond

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:52 pm 
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I had obviously seen the relationship between the skewb and skewb diamond but didn't realize there was a name for it. The dual property actually looks like it could be very helpful in solving a few more of these.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:18 pm 
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@fusion: danny is absolutely right about the opposite color thing for it to be considered solved, but I'm surprised that you didn't know that given that you've solved so many of these...

@danny: [geometric] Dual is a concept that almost everybody forgets later in life, but it was likely taught to you in grade school around 6th grade I believe - whenever they introduced "Platonic solids". It's actually pretty cool to think about cuz you can then draw a lot of parallels between different puzzles on the huge list. For me, it gets me to try out algs that I knew worked for it's duel or something and it's nice how I end up getting a lot more mileage for each alg I memorized or methods I've tried.

Congrats on the 1.1.4, and you seem to be right about 1.1.5 being "exact same as 1.1.4 but without the corners". I never noticed that before. Now I wonder why I used less moves and less time on 1.1.4. I think perhaps I should re-solve 1.1.5 to get something better. Although since it's unlikely I can beat Noah's entry, probably time better spent doing the tedious 5x5 Maze cube. BTW, how is it that somebody was crazy enough to solve the Super Pentultimate.... it boggles the mind.

I guess I did spend 5 hours on the 12-color Sphere. And that's also not something anyone else will get (...probably).


-Doug

edit: note that the centers of the 'Super-Pentultimate' is functionally-equivalent (identical even) to the corners of the 'Icosa-Pentultimate' (2.2.6). This is because they are DUELS. The only difference is that Super-Pentultimate has it's other pieces supered (orientation-differentiated) also - thus lethally combining difficulties of both.

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:37 pm 
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well I just finished 1.1.5 (and it is the same as 1.1.4 without corners) and while that's only a total of 36 puzzles solved, I have a pretty good idea of how to solve a few more

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Noah wrote:
I made a little print out sheet check list thing out of boredom.

It's in a Excel Document as well as a PDF.

I just did a tally to check how much more I've done and how the rankings are like.

On June 16, Noah's PDF/XLS shows:
Noah Hevey 97
Campbell 80
Michael Gottlieb 77
Doug Cube 50
Fusion 45

Just now I have:
Noah Hevey 104
Campbell 87
Michael Gottlieb 77
Doug Cube 71
fusion 48
Devitt 36
Gouly 19
Percy 16 (edit: double counted his Skewb, ops)
Teodovich 14
Eidolon 10 (counting a missing Dino attempt, cut off for time limit)
Siraj Ali 9
Cohen 8
Felipe Rojas 4
AndrewG 3
Tim Reynolds 2
K4 2

That was just a random selection of the names that popped out for me, so this is not really a "ranking" only a partial listing. (Everybody that did 5x5, and rest picked from Megaminx and Gigaminx lists.) Comparing the two: Noah did 7 more, Campbell did 7 more, Gottlieb didn't do anymore, I added 21 more, and fusion did 3 more.

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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