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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:12 pm 
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I am working on the Half Chop/Little Chop guide. Sorry, but it won't get done today.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:05 pm 
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2.2.15 1:36:36
Garh, this is the most I've spent on one puzzle. Rather than doing LBL than I have on other puzzles, I solved this puzzle piece-type by piece-type.
#1. Vertexes (trivial =p)
#2. Outer edges
#3. Inner edges
#4. Centers
#5. Outer centers

I had not much problems with #1 and #2. Until I hit parity on #2, and couldn't solve it for a long while. #3 was simple, just hard recognition.
#4 again not much trouble, just simple commutators. #5 these are horrible, and when I had solved about 4 faces, I noticed I still had an edge parity :( so I had to solve that. Then back to #5, which took a while. Finally finished, with an outer center parity.

I made hundreds of mistakes/misclicks.
I probably won't do this one again, if not for a while.

Unlike qqwref, I don't figure out how I will solve it, and then go for it. I just start solving it, and think about the problems as I come to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:45 am 
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http://i29.tinypic.com/121bgj4.jpg

Made a little pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:43 pm 
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Beware the parity on the Icosamate.

http://i30.tinypic.com/10cruom.jpg

Never the less, I solved it.

7ca3374dd19c0a3be4482026b59b1237
ad67183fc27689ec13aaa1bd436e91dc
237285f00bd726a04c5286d50da74672
8ce916d32c6798ce31e51acb34e619cd

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Last edited by Noah on Sat May 17, 2008 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Cool. Good job. I plan to solve one of these soon. I am curious, what do you guys average on the Helicopter Cube? That is my favorite puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:05 pm 
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I average just over 3 minutes on the Helicopter Cube. By the way, the algorithm I use to twist two corners in place, without disturbing anything else, is over 40 moves long: (UF UR UF UR UF UR) (RF UR RF UR RF) (UF UR FR UR UF UR FR) (UB UR UB UR UB) (RB UB RB UB RB) (UR UB RB UB UR UB RB) (UL UF UL UB UL UF UL). Anyone know a shorter algorithm?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:28 pm 
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That's icky. I can make a shorter one:
(UL UB UR UB UL) (UB UR UF UR UF UR UB) (UR FR UF FR UR FR UF FR)
but wouldn't you rather solve the corners first? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:08 am 
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I think the one that I use is UF FL FR DF FL FR x2.
I don't think this is a commutator or anything and I just got it by guess and check.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:58 am 
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I just needed a faster case for twisting corners. When I solve centers first, I can do all the centers in just over 30 seconds. Thanks for the algorithms!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:19 pm 
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I think I may have a shorter one: (UL UR UB) (UR UL UF) (UL UR UB) (UR UL UF) - turns the right corner cw and the left corner ccw on F.
Another is: UF (UL UR UB) (UR UL UF) (UL UR UB) (UR UL UF) - turns right corner ccw and the left corner cw on F. I found these out a couple of days ago.

BTW qqwref, I solve it layer by layer.

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Last edited by fusion on Fri May 16, 2008 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Those are exactly what contrabass's algorithm was, except that it was on a different face. Both work just as well, though...

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:24 pm 
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I like doing algs on U if I can. Since I haven't said so yet, I average around a minute or under on the Helicopter Cube. I wish I owned one of these!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am 
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Yeah, I do it layer by layer too, but in general I solve corners first.

Oh, by the way, did you know you can do a nice "U" turn on the corners with 8 moves? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:29 am 
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In regards to the Super Pentultimate and the Icosamate.

I have figured out how to orient the pentagonal pieces, however, this disrupts the orientation of the triangular pieces, which is no big deal for the Icosamate, but on the Super Pentultimate, it leaves unoriented corners. I cannot reorient these corners without ruining the centers and their orientation.


Anyways, I'm gonna solve the higher order Icosamates sometime soon. 2.2.4 & 2.2.5.

After that I should just man up, and put the time in and finally get around to solving the two color variation Icosahedrons, 2.2.10c & 2.2.10d.


P.S. Fusion, quit mocking us. I see that 1:20, 66 move Half Chop solve. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:41 am 
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Noah wrote:
P.S. Fusion, quit mocking us. I see that 1:20, 66 move Half Chop solve. :P


LOL

I am not mocking you, I just really like that puzzle. I think the.drizzle created a topic about making one of these somewhere but I can't find it.

I am working on the guide for it in MS Word. I am halfway through explaining how to get a second side.

Good luck on the Super Pentultimate and Icosamates! I can only get one side on the regular Pentultimate and I don't really know where to start on the Master Skewb. Either corners first, center and center edges first, or the edges next to the corners first.

I also solved the 3x3 Maze, and I made a map from it so I would know how I am supposed to solve it. I just saw also that qqwref got a 30 sec Helicopter Cube solve. How about my Super X solve? LOL Only 4 secs.

Which faces do I have to use in order to do a U turn on the Helicopter Cube?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:06 pm 
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I'd like make a request.

Can you add the Shift+Click function for 2.2.3, 2.2.4 & 2.2.5?

[edit] I solved 2.2.10d, but the solve screen didn't show up.

http://i32.tinypic.com/33a9z5k.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:11 pm 
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2.2.10d looks a bit too confusing for me, Noah!
I hope we're allowed to make specific puzzle requests to gelatinbrain to put on the applet, because I'd really like to see this puzzle:
Attachment:
helicopter dodeca.JPG
helicopter dodeca.JPG [ 72.54 KiB | Viewed 3958 times ]

Yes, I edited this picture in MS Paint.
1.4.1 is similar to this, but it has deeper cuts, just like how the Little Chop has deeper cuts than the Helicopter Cube. (This is the same puzzle as the one in my avatar, which I have dubbed the Beveminx.)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Gelatinbrain, I was wondering if you could add a key to activate a third layer turn, such as alt-click, for some of the bigger puzzles. This would be useful for 4.1.8 anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:47 pm 
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How are you supposed to turn one center 90 degrees?

I was doing great until that popped up and I can't figure out how to rotate it 90 degrees. I tried switching some centers but that didn't work either.


Attachments:
File comment: Seems like a Parity to me.
Puzzle Parity.JPG
Puzzle Parity.JPG [ 58.84 KiB | Viewed 3952 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:11 pm 
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To be honest, I just scramble it again.

The Shepard cube has always been a hassle if you ask me.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:44 am 
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fusion wrote:
How are you supposed to turn one center 90 degrees?

I was doing great until that popped up and I can't figure out how to rotate it 90 degrees. I tried switching some centers but that didn't work either.


There are 4 different types of corners, two with no specific orientation (mirror images of each other), and 2 sets of 3 identical corners. If you swap 2 identical corners, diagonally opposite each other, it will also rotate the center 90 degrees.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:53 am 
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while i was solving the 2.2.1, i ran into parity, i searched but found nothing

so, how do i defeat parity?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:20 am 
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TheCube wrote:
while i was solving the 2.2.1, i ran into parity, i searched but found nothing

so, how do i defeat parity?

Swap 2 identical pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Noah wrote:
TheCube wrote:
while i was solving the 2.2.1, i ran into parity, i searched but found nothing

so, how do i defeat parity?

Swap 2 identical pieces.


Any algorithms? Or just swap them and re-do anything?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Is your parity where you have to flip two pieces? If it then solve it like a Pyraminx.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:12 pm 
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The parity I know of is 2 pieces swapped, which is easily fixed by doing a 3 cycle where 2 of the pieces are identical.


Fusion, btw I'm still eager to see the Half Chop tutorial.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:28 pm 
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Sorry for the delay on it. Since school got out like a week and a half ago, I have kinda been away from much work, but that doesn't mean that I havn't been working on it. I will get on the guide now. I hope you understand the guide when it is finished. I havn't really had a parity on that puzzle. Just the Pyraminx flip one.

*Goes to work on guide.....* :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:15 am 
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I average about 2 or 3 minutes on the helicopter cube.
But occasionally I get this, and I can't figure it out and just start over.

Anyone?


Attachments:
File comment: Parity? I dunno.
Helicopter.jpg
Helicopter.jpg [ 21.23 KiB | Viewed 4689 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:13 pm 
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Yes, just do:

(UR) (FR UF UR FR UR UF FR) (UR UF UR UF UR UF) It isn't a parity, just a simple swap of two corners.

That should get you to solve it. I bet qqwref has a shorter one though.

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| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:28 am 
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Call the faces you see U, R, and F. Then you can solve it in a pretty standard way like this:
(UF FR UR)(UF FR UF FR UF FR)(UR FR UF) = 12 moves
I can't see any way more efficient to solve it using the swap-two-corners strategy, but I can optimize fusion's alg a bit:
(UF UR UF UR UF)(FR UF UR FR UR UF FR) = 12 moves

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:18 am 
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Awesome, I would never have figured that out. :D
how do you find these things?

Actually, don't answer that. My head might explode. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:02 pm 
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Percy wrote:
how do you find these things?

Magic. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:19 am 
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Wahoo!

Thanks Noah for writing such a handy guide :D


Attachments:
File comment: sub 1 Hour :s
Pentultimate.jpg
Pentultimate.jpg [ 42.33 KiB | Viewed 3943 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Percy wrote:
Wahoo!

Thanks Noah for writing such a handy guide :D

Glad it's being used. It's one of my favorite info threads I've made. I refer back to it often for personal use.


Regards,
Noah Hevey

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:21 pm 
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fianlly, after 23:37 and 444 moves, i finally solved the master octahedron all by myself, my goal was to do it by the end of may... oh well

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:26 pm 
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Did 1.2.2 (Except on that Ultimate Magic Cube program)
Took a long time (3.5 hrs) but only 852 moves (with copious use of undo)
Did:
1) Edges + some corners to figure out where the edges went
2) Finish corners, fix corner parity
3) Do triangles with 3-cycles.

3-cycling the triangles took FOREVER because there are 60 and sequences became pretty convoluted at times :/

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:29 am 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
Anyhow, for edge turning things, there is a simple 12 turn thing of the form (UF UR)^6. You can commutate this with a single BR. This gives (UF UR)^6 BR (UF UR)^6 BR. This is a basic 26 turn alg that is immensely helpful for solving this class of polyhedra. I had to commutate with a three turn thing for one of the puzzles. I forget which one, but I had to use (FR UR FR). Commutating something that is of length 26 with a length 3 and you get an ugly 58 turn alg. This was all I did for my three-triangular-piece cycles. I used the F<->R mirror of this alg too.


This is from waaaaay earlier in this thread, however I think I have something of a discovery!
(FL UR FL UR) (UB BR UB) (UR FL UR FL) (UB BR UB) is a 3-cycle on the 3.3.3 puzzle. Btw, when applied to a solved puzzle it looks like a single swap because two of the pieces moved are in the same face. I worked up to that point, then saved, then found then alg, but haven't finished the puzzle yet. Hopefully I'll have time to finish up this afternoon.

By the way, the applets don't work on my computer for some reason. It begin loading then says it can't create some sort of directory. Any suggestions? I use that other program but I've been able to beat the best movecount on some of the puzzles so I kinda want to do a few solves on the applets now.

update: I finished a little while ago. It took me 1,003 moves. I also wrote up a little guide to link to the front page:
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/cubeec.html
It's kinda written with not "spoiling things" in mind, things go from not very useful to quite useful as you read, so just stop when you don't want to know any more. :D
Hopefully I'll get around to writing more guides like this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:51 am 
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Good job figuring that one out. I'm still going after 3.3.5 after the Half Chop guide is finished. I saw your page on your guide and it made me feel like mine was too long. I'm going to see if I can't shorten my guide up a bit and give hints also. I'll give a look into 3.3.3.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:11 pm 
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I wrote my guide from a template I made that I was hoping would allow me to make guides for lots of puzzles with minimal work.
However, I think your solve of the Little Chop is big enough to deserve something longer :)
(Although sadly I won't be reading it because I want to figure that one out on my own SO badly, even if it takes a long time)

I hadn't even seriously tried it until I saw you had solved it. I had figured with all the other great minds around here having no success with it that it was near impossible. I actually started on 3.3.3 & company because I wanted to work up to it. Now I'm thinking that I might work with 3.3.6, because it includes the little chop's pieces. Hopefully it might help in the same way that learning 3x3x3 makes 2x2x2 easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:58 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
I wrote my guide from a template I made that I was hoping would allow me to make guides for lots of puzzles with minimal work.
However, I think your solve of the Little Chop is big enough to deserve something longer :)
(Although sadly I won't be reading it because I want to figure that one out on my own SO badly, even if it takes a long time)

I hadn't even seriously tried it until I saw you had solved it. I had figured with all the other great minds around here having no success with it that it was near impossible. I actually started on 3.3.3 & company because I wanted to work up to it. Now I'm thinking that I might work with 3.3.6, because it includes the little chop's pieces. Hopefully it might help in the same way that learning 3x3x3 makes 2x2x2 easier.


I still think my guide is a bit too long. I sometimes try to explain every little detail when I have the time.

I didn't notice 3.3.6 having the Half Chop's pieces until you said something. I want to solve the Half Chop + 2x2 Hybrid soon too. I can normally get about two and a half solved faces on it each time I go at it.

I'll try to get my guide finished within the week. I'll try to shorten it a bit and give you a hint in a general direction instead. :wink:

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| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:56 am 
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Well, I was somewhat right about 3.3.6
Last night I was able to relatively quickly construct a 2-swap and 3-cycle of little chop pieces using that puzzle.
HOWEVER, they are of length 44 and 90, respectively!!
As you've managed to solve the entire puzzle in 66 turns, it's obvious that you are doing something much more efficient! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:37 pm 
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3.3.3
I looked at your method for solving 3.3.3 and I took a decided to use your method a little bit and very little of what I could come up with and solved it. I was able to come up with an outer edge algorithm but I couldn't figure out the middle eges. The part I had the most trouble on would be the inner edges. Getting the last two was the part I had to figure out and it took the majority of the time to fix. I don't know if I will solve that again. Now to work on my guide some more, and if you want AndrewG, I can write out a few hints for you on the Half Chop since you won't be looking at the guide. :wink:

Half Chop
What two pieces does your 2-swap affect? What is your 3-cycle?


Attachments:
PuzzlePic2.JPG
PuzzlePic2.JPG [ 58.26 KiB | Viewed 3929 times ]

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Void Cube
| avg of 12: 32.10
| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:29 pm 
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nice job on the 3.3.3
1900 moves takes alot of perseverance, although you did it about an hour and a half quicker than my 1000 move solve.

anyways, those sequences I found for the little chop are pretty much ridiculous. but here they are for, erm, comedic value. The 3-cycle is just a commutator of the 2-swap (btw, when I say 2-swap, I mean two 2-cycles, idk if that's clear).

Comm(Comm(Comm(Comm(UR FL UR,BR),FR DR FR),BR),UF)

which expands to:

{ [(UR FL UR BR UR FL UR BR) (FR DR FR) (BR UR FL UR BR UR FL UR) (FR DR FR)] BR
[(FR DR FR) (UR FL UR BR UR FL UR BR) (FR DR FR) (BR UR FL UR BR UR FL UR)] BR} UF
{ BR [(UR FL UR BR UR FL UR BR) (FR DR FR) (BR UR FL UR BR UR FL UR) (FR DR FR)]
BR [(FR DR FR) (UR FL UR BR UR FL UR BR) (FR DR FR) (BR UR FL UR BR UR FL UR)]} UF

I executed it for the first time just now and can confirm that it DOES, in fact, work :D
Oh, and its 94 moves. When I said 90 I had thought there would be a small cancellation; there isn't.

So, I figure that if I solve, on average, 1.3 pieces per 3-cycle, and use an average of 3 setup moves, I would solve the puzzle in about 1850 moves. So obviously I'll be looking for something better!

Oh, btw, I've gotten the first two faces with more basic methods a few times :)
(That's the first part of your method right?)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:43 pm 
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The way I solve the Half Chop is:

1. Solve two opposite sides (not at the same time)
2. Solve a third and a fourth side (not at the same time)
3. Solve the fifth and sixth sides (at the same time)

I found out from my first solve on it that you can solve the faces in any order. I don't have a 3-cycle for it though.
I use a flip on adjacent sides and a swap on opposite sides.

When I saw your 94 move algorithm I went :shock:.
Then I saw it repeated here and there. I'll try to finish my guide in a couple of days.

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Void Cube
| avg of 12: 32.10
| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:00 pm 
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Argh, I have lost the ability to shift-click. Just when I wanted to do another gigaminx solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:30 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
By the way, the applets don't work on my computer for some reason. It begin loading then says it can't create some sort of directory. Any suggestions? I use that other program but I've been able to beat the best movecount on some of the puzzles so I kinda want to do a few solves on the applets now.

To help you, I need to know the exact message letter by letter.
Anyway my program doesn't create any directroies or files explicitely. The error must occur at browser-side or in the graphic library. Or maybe your java runtime is not up to date.
To know more details, could you do a simple test? Click these two links, and tell me what happens.
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... debug3.htm
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... debug2.htm
Do you see an animation picture? If not do you see any message on the JAVA console?


joey wrote:
Argh, I have lost the ability to shift-click. Just when I wanted to do another gigaminx solve.

I've just fixed this. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:50 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
joey wrote:
Argh, I have lost the ability to shift-click. Just when I wanted to do another gigaminx solve.

I've just fixed this. 8-)

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:09 pm 
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And to turn the middle layer of 5-layer puzzles (4.1.8~4.1.10), use Ctrl+Click. 8-)

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Win32 Executable(Download)
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:32 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
joey wrote:
Argh, I have lost the ability to shift-click. Just when I wanted to do another gigaminx solve.

I've just fixed this. 8-)


I was about to post this too. Thanks GelatinBrain.

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Void Cube
| avg of 12: 32.10
| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:46 pm 
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Hey gelatinbrain, I would like to make a request for a few puzzles: a fully functional professor skewb along with octahedron and tetrahedron versions (one step higher than 3.2.2, 4.1.4, and 5.1.9).


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