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 Post subject: Rubik's Cheese extended thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:16 pm 
to expand on a thread farther down...

The only cheese that I've ever touched is the kind made from milk. But from the information that I've learned so far, to make a replica of a Rubik's cheese I would:

1. Buy a Rubik's UFO
2. Glue the two layers together
3. Build up the pieces into the cheese shape.

Here's where the new thread comes in...
4. Color the pieces.

What would be the official colors and layout of the Rubik's cheese, assuming from what I've read that they were actually made?

And how many of these things exist in the world? 3? 4?

Could it be possible that there were multiple color layouts produced in small quantities?

If these puzzles were actually manufactored, then what year was it? What is the timeline of these puzzles?


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 Post subject: Re: Rubik's Cheese extended thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2002 1:10 am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Frankly, I don't understand all this attraction to such a simple little puzzle. If it is simply a six segment disc, the only way you know it's mixed up is because you "think" you know which way it's supposed to be solved. That's just silly IMHO.

Save yourself a lot of hassle and get one of those puck puzzles. Not quite the same, but close enough, and a heck of a lot more fun. At least the solution is printed on the puzzle (it is on mine... although it doesn't seem to be on the one at the following URL)!

http://look.net/hockeypuck/sixpairs

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Rubik's Cheese extended thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:16 pm 
> to make a replica of a Rubik's cheese I would:
> 1. Buy a Rubik's UFO
> 2. Glue the two layers together
> 3. Build up the pieces into the cheese shape.

At #2 I would actually remove the outer pieces of the ufo - they slide on grooves around a 1-layer internal block which has the cheese mechanism.

> 4. Color the pieces.

> What would be the official colors and layout of the Rubik's cheese

I am not sure of the colours. Anthony said in the other thread that the colours are offset, i.e. looking around the side of the solved cheese it looks like a brick wall:
122331
445566
I vaguely remember seeing one in Singmaster's collection that was like this, but I'm not totally sure.

Hendrik's pictures show a version like this:
112233
445566
I think this is not as nice, as it has two solutions.

> And how many of these things exist in the world? 3? 4?
More than that. We already know of 3 (Hendrik, Anthony, David). My guess is there may be a few hundred that were made, probably sold in Hungary.

> Could it be possible that there were multiple color layouts produced in small quantities?

Could be, or it could be that Hendriks has been glued together incorrectly.

> If these puzzles were actually manufactored, then what year was it?

The Hungarian patent is from 9 Nov 1980 (HU 319599), and the US patent was granted in 18 Oct 1983 (US 4,410,179).

http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm

I suspect it was manufactured in Hungary around 1980/81 for a short while, but it was not taken up for distribution anywhere else. Pure speculation though.

Jaap


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 Post subject: Solution on Puck puzzle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
Let's see.... You have to solve the puzzle to read the solution to the puzzle. Cool, like the chicken and the egg. (This is assuming, of course, that you didn't copy the solution before messing it up.)

Doug.


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 Post subject: It's always the unknown that gets you
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:31 am 
If these things were available a dime a dozen then we wouldn't be talking about them. I didn't realize that the two layers didn't turn and didn't realize that they were actually produced. It's a puzzle that not everbody has, so I guess that's what draws me to it. I'll add it to my growing list of puzzle transformations to do.

I do have a puck puzzle. It is a neat puzzle.


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 Post subject: Cheese, Pucks, and more...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 2:32 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
I was pondering alternate mechanisms and terminology for the cheese and puck-type puzzles.

Cheese-type: those where an arbitrary diameter can be flipped without rotating the inner core. We can use the terminology MxN where M is the number of wedges and N is the number of layers. Known examples:
- Rubik's Cheese (6x1)
- Rubik's UFO (6x2)
- Masterball (6x4)
- ??? (6x6) (I've seen pictures, but don't know the name)

Puck-type: those where the inner core of the puzzle must be rotated to allow a diameter to flip. MxN terminology can also be used. Known examples:
- Saturn (6x1)
- Puck (12x2)

Variations:
- Brain Ball - flips two opposing and unequal segments rather than half the puzzle
- Square-1 could be seen as a bandaged, Puck-type 12x2

Rules:

- The puck mechanism allows for MxN where:
- M must be even or there are no diameters along which to flip the puzzle
- N can be any number; the puzzle must be symmetrical between the top and bottom, but this can either be odd (there's an equator layer) or even (there's no equator)

- The cheese mechanism seems to demand MxN where:
- M must be 2(2P+1) for any P; that is, twice an odd number. Here's my reasoning: the internal mechanism must be in the same state before and after a flip. The cheese mechanism uses pieces of alternating type. If there are an even number of pieces on each half of the puzzle, then when performing a flip you'll end up with pieces of the same type adjacent. Therefore, each half of the puzzle must have an odd number of pieces.
- N can be any number, for similar reasons to the puck.

This applies to the UFO mechanism as well as the Patent US5199711:
Image

It's therefore easy to sketch a mechanism for a 6 (2*(2*1+1)) xN, 10 (2*(2*2+1)) xN or even 14xN (2*(2*3+1)) cheese-type puzzle. However, making 8xN or 12xN is not obvious.

(Bandaging a 12xN would give you a true Square-1 II, which is what made me think of all of this.)

Observation: bandaging a 2x2x2 cube gives you a 4x1 cheese which violates the above rule. (Or http://www.puzzle-shop.de/color-tonne.html, which is actually 4x2 and lets you assume non-cylindrical shapes) Are there other mechanisms that allow for different values of M? The 2x2x2 cube's mechanism is internally a 3x3x3; can we follow this lead and co-opt other mechanisms?


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 Post subject: puck/ufo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:54 pm 
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Location: Palerang Shire, NSW, Australia
The thing is though, the puck is not what I would call ingenious like the UFO. The puck centre needs to be moved to change slices, whereas, the UFO doesn't.

I figure it was easier for the maker to design it that way.


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 Post subject: Nice job!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2001 7:03 pm
Nice work there Joshua! I once thought about different size masterballs, and thought about the posibility of a junior masterball with two layers and four 'segments' per layer. it turns out that this is actually a 2x2x2 'cube' like you said. and the reason why it violates your idea is that its more than just a masterball/cheese/puck puzzle. this is because on those puzzles when you do any move other than an upper or lower layer move, you must twist a sige hemisphere (or whatever) through 180 degrees. however when it is like a 2x2x2, a 90 degree turn will leave the puzzle in a shape which it can still be turned from. i guess its different if it was in the shape of a ufo or something, but i think this is a (very informal) explanation of why the interesting case pops up... Any thought anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Cheese, Pucks, and more...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Delft, the Netherlands
> Cheese-type mechanism:
> - Rubik's Cheese (6x1)
> - Rubik's UFO (6x2)
> - Masterball (6x4)
> - ??? (6x6)

The masterball is 8x4. I don't know of a real 6 layer one, though there isa a patent for it on your site.

> Puck-type mechanism:
> - Saturn (6x1)
> - Puck (12x2)

The saturn is 8x1, Puck is 12x1 (though the pieces have an orientation).

There is also the Logi-Vip ball (by Arxon), which is and 8x4 just like the masterball, but it only has one cut through the ball.

> The puck mechanism allows for MxN where:
> M must be even, N can be any number

> The cheese mechanism seems to demand MxN where:
> M must be 2(2P+1), N can be any number
> This applies to the UFO mechanism as well as the
> Patent US5199711

This is indeed true for any mechanism where the pieces hold each other directly. The connection will have to have a male and female side, and then there will be a kind of parity restriction on the sides of the pieces.

As you note however, the 2x2x2 cube violates this rule, but so does the Masterball mechanism. This is because here the segments do not hold each other directly, but both hold one to a connecting piece between them. This kind of mechanism is trickier because the connecting piece must stay in place when one of the halves is turned.

Jaap


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 Post subject: Rubik licensed cheese?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
Was the cheese actually a Rubik licensed puzzle or did some small manufacturer independantly make it? Is there a Rubik's sticker on it? What did the packaging look like/say?

Does anyone here have an answer for any of these questions?

Doug.


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