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 Post subject: Flip CubePosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:19 pm

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 2:35 am
I've been thinking about this idea for a while but there's no time for me to start a new project these days so I'll describe it here.

Consider a 3x3x3 cube made of 27 solid cubes where each individual cube has 6 colours. Now try to think of a way to flip a side of the cube such that the centre cube does a 180 rotation, e.g. if the side to flip was red then it would change so that orange was showing, also the left and right strips on the sides would exchange colours, also the top and bottom strip would flip.

Now we have the old problem of making the 27 cubes stick together well enough to maintain the 3x3x3 shape but also able to flip a 3x3x1 side reasonably well. The magnetic cube that Omega was selling looks like one possibility. I was looking for velcro pads on the internet but couldn't find anything suitable. Perhaps one could also use a non-permanent adhesive to stick the cubes together well enough to make a prototype.

Mark

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:38 pm

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Just to clear things up, I asume you by this special new move mean like turning a layer inside out, or upside down, right?

You mean like a "cubamid"?

Would it still have its "cube properties" or be just another shape of triamid?

Velcro, might be the solution, or some new type of triamid connector, but that would seriously hinder normal cube moves, I think.

The magnetic idea isn't going to work for this. I have thought about magnetic cubes for a long time, and I found that considdering normal cubes only odd number cubes will work, since an even number cube will have to have every side being able to stick to any of the side of every other cubie, which isn't possible when both poles have to be used, since every cubie have to have the same pole "facing out" from the sides.
Sam problem occurs when designing an odd number cube so that the layers can be turned upside down...

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:46 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Well, almost exact. I was also thinking you could be allowed to turn it like a normal 3x3 as well as those 'flips'. Basically a triamid in a cube form.

@Haara: I think the magnetic cube would work. Watch the video of the acrylic cube that recently got auctioned off. I dunno. I was thinking if he had drilled 6 holes in each cubie it would still work.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:52 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Rochester, MN
Haara wrote:
which isn't possible when both poles have to be used

So, don't use both poles. Why can't you just have some places be just metal?

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:58 am

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
xcool wrote:
@Haara: I think the magnetic cube would work. Watch the video of the acrylic cube that recently got auctioned off. I dunno. I was thinking if he had drilled 6 holes in each cubie it would still work.

I havn't seen any video, and I don't know where to find it (help, maybe?) but from what I have understood about the cube, it is "just" a normal 3x3x3, that will vork, as long as you pay atention to what pole to be on the "outside" of hte cubie. What I said was that it would be trouble when giving it the possibility to flip a layer...

blogan wrote:
Haara wrote:
which isn't possible when both poles have to be used

So, don't use both poles. Why can't you just have some places be just metal?

Havn't thought of that before, but my guess is that it will make the cube work, but it woouldn't hold together as good as using magnets all around.

Just a thinking example on the 2x2x2 with the posibility to put both poles and only metal on the outside of the cubies.
I asume it is easier if every cubie got the same "type" on the outside of every side, so that way we can consider the cubies and not their sides.
(Notation +=north pole on outside, -=south pole on outside, 0=metal)
Say the first cubie is +, then the rest have to be - or 0. Cubie two is then - so that the rest is either + or 0. This gives that cubie 3-8 have to be metal only. When scrambling that cube you might end up with having the both magnetic cubies beside each other. This would give the diagonaly opposite cubies a hard time staying "on" the cube...

I know this example is kind of simplified, and I suppose that it is possible to make a cube that holds together better, but I still think that the issue of weather it will be able to hold itself together no matter the scramble will be a though nut to crack... (maybe it isn't possible, but I don't want to say that it isn't, since I don't want to "say too much")

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:05 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Couldn't it just have the Corners be [-], the edges be [+], and the centers be [0] and the core cube could be [-] or [+]?

Because if it were treated like a cube form of a Triamid, I don't think the cubies would swap thier original distinction, would they?

Also, here are the videos.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: flip cubePosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:23 pm

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 2:35 am
Haara wrote:
Just to clear things up, I asume you by this special new move mean like turning a layer inside out, or upside down, right?

ML:
Yes, basically just flipping a 3x3x1 side of cubes over. Looking at a particular side there would be two moves: the left-right flip and the up-down flip.

You mean like a "cubamid"?

ML:
A puzzle like the triamid wasn't what I thought of at first. Later on I thought about using a snap type connector. Now that I've looked at the triamid I am surprised at the strength of the connection between the little black cube and the coloured pieces.

Would it still have its "cube properties" or be just another shape of triamid?

ML:
Each side could flip in two ways and those would be the only moves. Although it would be interesting to combine regular rubik's type moves with the flip moves it seems to me that it would be easier to just implement the flip moves. Of course one could write a computer simulation for the flip-rubik puzzle.

Velcro, might be the solution, or some new type of triamid connector, but that would seriously hinder normal cube moves, I think.

ML:
At some point I would like to try it but it may be that the connection of 9 cubes with velcro would be too strong. I think some type of snap-on connector could work.

The magnetic idea isn't going to work for this. I have thought about magnetic cubes for a long time, and I found that considdering normal cubes only odd number cubes will work, since an even number cube will have to have every side being able to stick to any of the side of every other cubie, which isn't possible when both poles have to be used, since every cubie have to have the same pole "facing out" from the sides.
Sam problem occurs when designing an odd number cube so that the layers can be turned upside down...[/quote]

ML:
Given that each individual cube has six colours the magnetics would have to also be strong enough to connect to each other through a painted or vinyl surface. Perhaps some combination of snap-on connector with magnetics would work...

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:22 pm

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
xcool wrote:
Couldn't it just have the Corners be [-], the edges be [+], and the centers be [0] and the core cube could be [-] or [+]?

Yeah, that might work, didn't thought that far though, since I only put up a 2x2x2 as an example (that I still find impossible by the way). The only thign I can see is that when turning (45 deg) an edge would be next to another edge, and it will cause problems (unless the "pole pattern" is redesigned*, so that the edges are [0]). The problems might not be enough to make it not work, but they will be there...

xcool wrote:
Because if it were treated like a cube form of a Triamid, I don't think the cubies would swap thier original distinction, would they?

Nope, they wouldn't, at least as long as you dont take the top layer and make it the bottom layer...

xcool wrote:

From what I can see, and read in the sites that are linked to, this cube was made to "only" work as a normal cube, so I guess the "pole design" for this one wouldn't work for a cubamid...

Thanks for correcting me!

*If you make the edges [0], corners [-], centers [+] and core [-] or [0] one would probably not have the problems of the 45 deg turn...
Another plus thing with having the edges (and the core) being [0], mean that there would be less force needed to "part" the layers (from the videos, it looks like turning isn't very smooth...)

To prevent the "top to bottom" move one could end up not stickering every side of every cubie...
Corners have to be stickered with six stickers, edges have to be stickered on 4 sides (omit two opposite sides) and centers only have to have two on opposite sides, and core needs none... (would take two sets of stickers only)
That means there would be three types of edges, one type of corners and six different centers, so it would have a bit more possible solutions... And you would never rubb two stickers together while twisting either, that's a plus isn't it...?

Mark Longridge wrote:
Given that each individual cube has six colours the magnetics would have to also be strong enough to connect to each other through a painted or vinyl surface. Perhaps some combination of snap-on connector with magnetics would work...

Neodymium (spelling?) magnets are extremely strong, so using that type would eliminate that problem (tha consern with them is to find them cheep, and that they are a bit fragile, so one probably have to sink them into the cube, and put som epoxy or so above it to shield it from stress during turns ect.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:42 pm

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:51 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota, USA
Is it something like this below just that its not real.

First go to Ton's website below.

http://www.speedcubing.com/ton/

After you do that then you scroll down to Cube programs under that is Ping Zheng, Glide Cube.

After you press the link go to screen shot on the left hand side of the page.

Is that what your looking for to make in the real world!?!?!?!?!?

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:14 pm

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
No, not realy, but it would be cool!

What I have been takling about is a "norma" 3x3x3 cube, that you can lift away any of the layers, and flip it over.

An exampel:
You have the cube in fromt of you, you pick up the top layer, and make the rotatopn F2 to that entire layer, and then put it back on your two other layers. This is supposed to be able to be done with any layer, and at any time during, solving and scrambling that can be done as in a normal cube...

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:52 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Imagin it like this. You have a 3x3x3. You take off the top layer and put it back on upside down.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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