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 Post subject: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I have a challenge for designers out there (Oskar, Ben, Eitan, Tony, etc.). I was playing around with my Skewb when I noticed that after turning the corner 60 degrees, there was a six piece segment that lined up perfectly as if it were able to turn. I want someone to design and build a Skewb that makes that segment turn by 180 degrees. This would make the puzzle a bit harder at the very least, and it would be great fun. I would call it the Skewb plus (or Skewb+) because it is a Skewb plus an extra move. Hope to see this in the near future!

EDIT: If you don't know what I mean by the six piece segment, look up Skewb in the museum. One of the pictures shows the puzzle turned 60 degrees with the six piece segment showing.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:06 pm 
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This additional turn could make the puzzle a bit easier. It does allow mixing of corner orbits so the number of states does increase a lot but so does the move freedom. Plus, this new cut isn't deep which alone should make things easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Interesting idea. If I'm interpreting what you said correctly, I think the face pattern would look something like this:
Attachment:
picture 1.png
picture 1.png [ 40.91 KiB | Viewed 1149 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:16 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
Interesting idea. If I'm interpreting what you said correctly, I think the face pattern would look something like this

I'm just doing the manipulation in my head but the way I'm imagining the additional turn wouldn't expose any new cuts or pieces at the surface of the puzzle.

The move I'm imagining does a single swap of square centers and a 2-2 swap of corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:22 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
benpuzzles wrote:
Interesting idea. If I'm interpreting what you said correctly, I think the face pattern would look something like this

I'm just doing the manipulation in my head but the way I'm imagining the additional turn wouldn't expose any new cuts or pieces at the surface of the puzzle.

The move I'm imagining does a single swap of square centers and a 2-2 swap of corners.

I looked at the way this new turn would work and it looks like it wouldn't be possible to make the cut for this turn line up exactly with the existing cuts. The pieces would collide with each other. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:57 pm 
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What I was originally thinking was there would be no change in cuts, but hey, you're the designer, so do what you like! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:01 pm 
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It doesn't look like the corners will collide. You may end up using strange cuts like those on the Icosaix, but it will work I think. Maybe this will reveal new jumbling moves or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:51 pm 
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I have been working on a puzzle which is based on a similar idea:

Attachment:
File comment: SkewbSwitch1
SkewbSwitch1.png
SkewbSwitch1.png [ 107.71 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: SkewbSwitch2
SkewbSwitch2.png
SkewbSwitch2.png [ 126.75 KiB | Viewed 1039 times ]


I guess it is like what Ben had in his image, but the extra cuts are a bit deeper.

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Actually this is a completely different puzzle, although it is still completely genius. Like Brandon said, the extra move will switch two centers and do a 2,2 swap with the corners. Your puzzle switches two corners and part of two centers. I think it's cool that you were already working on something like this, and I hope to see this in the near future.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:22 am 
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The issue that I think arises from this is that typically a Skewb has four corners anchored to a core, and their locations relative to each other do not change. This move, when doing a 2,2 swap of corners, would be trying to switch two corners that should be unmoveable relative to the core. I don't really know how a void skewb works so I don't know if that would be a good basis for this either

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:03 am 
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A void Skewb is just literally a Skewb with holes drilled through the puzzle in all three dimensions. There's a video on YouTube showing the void Skewb mechanism. The core is a ball that has been drilled through. Anyways, there's still the question of whether or not it is feasible without making any new cuts.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:08 am 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
The issue that I think arises from this is that typically a Skewb has four corners anchored to a core, and their locations relative to each other do not change. This move, when doing a 2,2 swap of corners, would be trying to switch two corners that should be unmoveable relative to the core. I don't really know how a void skewb works so I don't know if that would be a good basis for this either

Indeed the simple "standard" Skewb mechanism has no chance of supporting this move. Instead the puzzle would need to be built up from shallow cuts at the core to deep cuts at the surface. This is exactly what you get with the shells mechanism.

There may be additional issues with trying to enable this move but the fixed corner orbits isn't a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:11 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Indeed the simple "standard" Skewb mechanism has no chance of supporting this move. Instead the puzzle would need to be built up from shallow cuts at the core to deep cuts at the surface. This is exactly what you get with the shells mechanism.

Actually, you don't have to do it this way. You can build a standard skewb mechanism in the core, and build a completely different shell above it. The corner pieces wouldn't be extended, so there wouldn't be any issues of orbit swapping with the new move.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Do you think it is possible then, Ben? I know, anything is possible, but is it feasible with current puzzle building techniques and knowledge?

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:34 pm 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
Do you think it is possible then, Ben? I know, anything is possible, but is it feasible with current puzzle building techniques and knowledge?

To design it the way it was originally intended would be impossible, since the corner pieces would jam when turning. Extra pieces would need to be introduced. However, if those new pieces are included it is most likely possible. I'll do some more experimentation once I get the chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:42 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
TheCubingKyle wrote:
Do you think it is possible then, Ben? I know, anything is possible, but is it feasible with current puzzle building techniques and knowledge?

To design it the way it was originally intended would be impossible, since the corner pieces would jam when turning. Extra pieces would need to be introduced. However, if those new pieces are included it is most likely possible. I'll do some more experimentation once I get the chance.

I definitely think extra pieces need to be created internally. Are you saying that there would be external surface collisions and you'd need to introduce external pieces too?

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:55 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
benpuzzles wrote:
To design it the way it was originally intended would be impossible, since the corner pieces would jam when turning. Extra pieces would need to be introduced. However, if those new pieces are included it is most likely possible. I'll do some more experimentation once I get the chance.

I definitely think extra pieces need to be created internally. Are you saying that there would be external surface collisions and you'd need to introduce external pieces too?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. This is also why my first picture has those extra visible cuts-they're needed to prevent external collisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Skewb Plus (idea)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Through this discussion, I'm curious if any builders have picked up the idea?

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