Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:21 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Missourica
With all the free time in my classes, i have been thinking. Mostly about Twisty Puzzles.

I recently finished my FF 3x3x5, made from a crazy cube, but I am awaiting stickers to finish and post it.

But building that puzzle lead me to think: how could this concept of a 3X3 with a circle in it be applied to higher order puzles?

Which lead me to this: my first puzzle fully made in CAD (Autodesk Inventor, free as I got a student code)

Attachment:
whole cube.png
whole cube.png [ 273.55 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


As far as I know, the design will work. It is probably the simplest mechanism ever, so I will share it with you.

Attachment:
empty.png
empty.png [ 288.63 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


This is the base core 3x3 first layer. as you can see it has a shape cut out of it, not interfering with the 3x3 mechanism at all. So with this cutout...

Attachment:
edge inner.png
edge inner.png [ 245.21 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


Attachment:
corner inner.png
corner inner.png [ 261.69 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


it allows these pieces to slide freely, which keep each other in place with the overlapping design. I think this design may be similar to Oskar's overlapping cube, but I have never seen its mechanism.

I plan to print this with shapeways. Then I will extend the inner circle pieces and create a 3x3x15, fully functional and shapeshifting.

Please, post your thoughts. I have never Cadded or printed a puzzle before, but I think my pieces are well done and tolerances are okay too.

Thank you for your time,
Adam Brown


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:00 am
Location: Colorado
Looks good. How do you plan to extend the center pieces?

_________________
My Shapeways Shop
My YouTube Videos
My Museum Puzzles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
I'm afraid this wouldn't work very well. There is quite little holding the pieces in place. The pieces are going to be very, very long, so a small force applied at the ends will equal a huge force at the attachment point. I'd imagine the pieces are just going to slip out due to the shallow angle.
I think it's better to make it with the hooks going at 90 degrees. That would make it much more stable, but this is still ambitious.

Also, you should make sure that you are actually able to craft the other pieces by hand. It seems very tricky to do that, finding the right radius pipes or whatever to build from. Plus, gluing to those tiny pieces in a sufficiently strong way isn't going to be easy either.

_________________
Tom's Shapeways Puzzle Shop - your order from my shop includes free stickers!
Tom's Puzzle Website


Buy my mass produced puzzles at Mefferts:
- 4x4x6 Cuboid for just $38
- Curvy Copter for just $18
- 3x4x5 Cuboid for just $34


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:21 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Looking at the pictures, I'm not so sure if the mechanism will be stable. It looks like pieces could pop out easily, especially because the pieces are thin, and would most likely be pretty flexible if printed in WSF.

_________________
Katniss wrote:
Only on this forum would people use a V-cube 7 as a size comparison for a cat :lol:

My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Missourica
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Looks good. How do you plan to extend the center pieces?


You know, I'm not sure. my modding experience is probably not enough to extent them. So I guess my options are:

Fail at extending them myself
Ask another experienced member to extend them for me
3D print the whole thing, extending them in CAD
3D print extensions coming straight up and glue cubes onto those myself (hope that makes sense)

here is what the last option would look like, except I would fill in the middle area to hopefully help keep it together. This is probably my most viable option.

Attachment:
last option.png
last option.png [ 229.54 KiB | Viewed 1243 times ]


And Tom: I know you are an expert in this. Do you think that these long extenstions would pop too easily? Because at first I thought the same, but I figure that once the center pieces are extended that will kind of help to keep the whole puzzle in place.

Your 90 degree hook idea is great, however I think that would result in very thin fragile pieces. Do you think that a 3x3 could accomodate enough thin pieces to do this? Thanks.

Will: I have never printed in WSF, but I am fairly familiar with the concept. If you look at the corner, do you think WSF is too F so that this could bend and pop? Again, i think the extended centers would help stop this.

Thanks everybody for the fast response! I will be busy the rest of the day though, so I will most likely be until late tonight until I can respond to any more commments.

Thanks again,
Adam


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:16 am
Location: Maryland,USA
In my opinion, this type of mechanism would be best suited for a full print from Shapeways in WS&F. It would also have to be quite large in order for the mech to work somewhat well.

Chris Hemerich


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:17 am
Location: Missourica
Thank you for the great help everybody. As you all know, a few problems have come up with this design, some of them anticipated by myself.

I knew from the start that it would be hard to extend the circle pieces. But I think that a full shapeways print, while expensive, would probably be the best option.

Another problem that has been pointed out is the tendancy for popping in this mechanism. I agree with that, as I have never actually held a WSF puzzle and thereofre have no idea just how F it is :wink: . From the pictures this thinness of the pieces and tendency to pop seems obvious, but for some reason just by designing the puzzle naturally it felt as if these cuts ARE sharp enough. As stated before, I believe that both sides of the mechanism will, to a degree, help keep each other in place. However, when the puzzle shape-shifts this problem will definitely arise, but I feel if kept mostly non-shapeshifting this puzzle will be more stable. So a redesign is needed.

Because I definitely have enough time, I will redesign the mechanism and put the hooks at 90 degrees as Tom suggested. This would add a lot of stability without any added difficulty.

One final idea that I had today that would help solve a lot of problems is to make only the middle 3 layers proportional. The puzzle would retain ALL functionality (unlike a cubic 3x3x7 for example) and it would help:

-Keep length of pieces down to eliminate the "lever effect" that tom mentioned, and therefore reduce popping.
-Lower cost significantly
-Allow for the same degree of shapeshifting while reducing the tendency to pop while shapeshifting
-Keep bulky and unreasonable size down

I sketched it out so you can see my idea. Again, the only think I lose my doing this is the ability to call it "fully functional AND proportional" This new design is still fully functional and shapeshifting, but not proportional.

Attachment:
FF and P vs. just FF jpeg.JPG
FF and P vs. just FF jpeg.JPG [ 56.33 KiB | Viewed 1168 times ]


So taking all of this into account, I have some work to do. I expect to finish the redesign and post it here in roughly a week. Thanks again for the FANTASTIC help, I really do love this hobby and it's great to have such an awesome helpful community that loves it to.

Thanks again,
Adam

P.S. Comments still welcome, any suggestions or questions would be great


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Somewhere Else
Why not make every layer slightly thinner than the last? :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FF 3x3x15 Design: Need input
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: Texas, USA
You are trusting the centers to hold in the extensions. In your design, you extended only 2 centers. As soon as you make a turn, the pieces will pop. 15 is a bit much also.

_________________
"I discovered the triangle one day while shaving. I trimmed my beard like the intersection of three circles and noticed how I could unfog a square in the bathroom mirror by rubbing my beard circularly against the glass."-Franz Reuleaux


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group