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 Post subject: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:00 am 
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Here's it - from MF8 forum http://bbs.mf8.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=62848&extra=page%3D1

Sorry the pic orders are reversed, they're Assembling

The corner leg's THIN! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 am 
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very interesting. did you ever get your patent?

glad to see this doesnt infringe on the v cube patent (from what I can tell)

I hope to see this implemented in 4x4 and 6x6, maybe even 8x8 cubes in the near future. Great work!

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:07 am 
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This is NOT my work. If you search the forum, you'll find more about that 12x12x12.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:18 am 
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Hugo Mak wrote:
The corner leg's THIN! :shock:
Boy is that ever an understatement.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:21 am 
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GuiltyBystander wrote:
Hugo Mak wrote:
The corner leg's THIN! :shock:
Boy is that ever an understatement.


It looks like they are made of metal.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:22 am 
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Amazing! I still don't get why he made a 12x12x12 instead of a 13x13x13. All of the needed basics seem to be there.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:11 am 
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PM6262 - it was because he could prove that an even numbered one was possible. So yea, why not a 10x10x10? Thats because Vcubes only goes up till 11x11x11 rigth? So to beat then to!

So yea its basically the new Mf8 Dayan 4x4x4 mech.

But those corner stalks?? amazingly looking! So thin, I hope they are made from metal, else I would fear breaking that thing every second!

It would be really nice if this one was put into massproduction! Dont you agree?

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:20 am 
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Christ! Even with metal, they're still incredibly thin! This is an extremely awesome puzzle and congratulations to Leisie Le for making such a beast.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:42 pm 
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Adman234 wrote:
glad to see this doesnt infringe on the v cube patent (from what I can tell)


It's a 12x12x12 so it can't, even if it used the exact same principle

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Adman234 wrote:
glad to see this doesnt infringe on the v cube patent (from what I can tell)


It's a 12x12x12 so it can't, even if it used the exact same principle




True, but I mean that the mechanism can be applied to other even layered cubes without being a V cube knock off, and without the annoying clicking mechanism.

It would be great to see 4x4s, 6x6s, 8x8s, 10x10s, and even 12x12s hit the market with this mechanism.


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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:41 pm 
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This is so awesome :O there are so much pieces :D

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Doubleyou wrote:
So yea its basically the new Mf8 Dayan 4x4x4 mech.


This one? Image
Definately not.
It actually is the same mech I used for my 4x4
Image
Instead of all the pieces hooking under hidden centres, they hook under a shell around the corners.
It is untrue that it doesn;t have a Hidden layer, but the hidden layer is merely from a internal 3x3 bandaged into a 2x2. This 2x2 holds in all the other pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:00 pm 
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It looks like it's a 3x3x3 within a 12x12x12. It's quite interesting to see such a different mechanism for such a big and risky puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:40 pm 
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It looks to me as if, at a half rotation, the wing piece (god it's hard to label them :roll: is there a convention for this?) that's adjacent to the center wing piece will fall out?

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:24 am 
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Why hang from axis?

[I'm writing this because someone pointed me to this post. Thanks Hugo for sharing it with TP members. And I felt it necessary to contribute something. Feel free to take it, let me know if you want any further explanation.]

The first time I saw the v-cube 7 was impressive. Researches that follow lead me to the 12th cube project. Now the new mechanism has been patented and this post is going to talk about it from a designer's view, focusing on the fundamental changes.

As we all know, all visible blocks of a cube must be properly rooted. It is the mechanism that is responsible for the rooting job. Let me extend to some points here,
1) the functional design(shaping & slicing) and mechanical design(internal rooting) are very different. There are lots of functional designs in GB but no mechanism involved. People may think functional designs are easy without considering mechanism but shaping and slicing needs creativity and the courage to introduce new mechanism(Floppy, Void, Pentultimate, 24, BC cubes etc).
2) Without mechanism, a design can usually be achieved by using magnets. This setup is almost equivalent to software simulation, almost boundless. In this case, a software cube designer can focus on strange functional designs without worrying about physical mechanism(4D cubes, hyper cubes, etc).

Let's go back and take a look at V7. Grab a visible piece and pull it out - it is always somehow curved. Why? By looking into Mr Verdes' patent, they hooked layer by layer, finally all to the cap below the center of each face. The caps are attached to respective rotational axis. Now here's the question: why hang from axis?

For example, let's see what happens if we hang face/edge pieces from corners. Since corners can rotate like a 222 they must be attached to a 222 cube. Then here's a different mechanism(rooting method): build a 222 and hang pieces other than corners from triangular umbrella inside of corners. This is how the 12th cube was built and the patent says: always hang from corners, in the case of odd number of layers also hang from axis(Oskar's 17th meets this point, but it can be simplified to make it a more working cube. Please do not take it as offensive).

There are two benefits from this change. First being no hidden layer in the sense of existing 666 cubes(no offensive). Secondly the rooting legs are much longer so that it is very unlikely to pop.

Now just one step forward to shed light on most cubes, regardless of shape and cuts: how about hanging from edges/corner/...? And, how about hanging from other groups of points of symmetry? For simpler understanding if you are hiding a rotational center, try hanging from points other than rotational center. Examples include even layered standard cubes, Pentultimate, 24, etc. Even if you are hang pieces from centers, try also hang from other symmetrical points, at least more stable. E.g., 17th cube, examinx. The plan is first build the ground symmetry then attach external movable pieces. Yep, a lot of work but it works almost always. The only shortcoming when it comes to DCPs is increased number of layers. And friction must be taken with extreme caution.

Following this direction, there are too many puzzles to be redesigned, and there are new mechanisms clicks away.

Enjoy!

Leslie


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 Post subject: Re: Leslie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:53 am 
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Thank you for this Leslie. Your explanations and insight were most impressive.
My power of imagination was increased considerably.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:04 am 
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I wonder how this translates to the pentultimate. If a much simpler design is possible then I look very much forward to knowing how it might work.. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:15 am 
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This is good news! :D Congrats on the patent. I would love to someday own an 8x8x8 based on this improved, non-infringing design.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:42 pm 
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I want to correct my comment regarding the mechanism. I meant that it was based on the same idea as the mini 4x4x4 somebody built recently (Sorry I don't remember who)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Doubleyou wrote:
I want to correct my comment regarding the mechanism. I meant that it was based on the same idea as the mini 4x4x4 somebody built recently (Sorry I don't remember who)

You should read more carefully because that is exactly what I said, it IS the same mech as my mini 4x4x4

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:57 pm 
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hehe sorry man! Congrats on thinking that much outta the box designing your puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:54 pm 
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@c1829: Sticks are actually shafts for electromotors - precisely straight, thin and not easily bended/breakable. Rails from zooming lens will be even better. More interestingly, this cube can work without the presence of corners and sticks.

@PuzzleMaster6262:
I don't want to get into trouble in any case without publishing the design. Fortunately the mech is more beneficial for higher order cubes.

@Doubleyou:
Up to mass production, I've considered about it but it's very costly. Even after specifically redesigned for manufacturing.
I do have a design of pentultimate simpler than the awesome original work of Jason. But I'm not sure if it is simpler than his new design. According to pictures available to me around the forum(in some meet up post), I figured that there might be a coincidence. Anyway the new method doesn't guarantee a simpler mech.

@Georges: Thank you for cheers, this is invaluable to me.

@NType3: I number facelets using pairs of integers. Coordinates start from (1,1) which refers to four corners and ends at (6,6) which refers to four central facelets on each face of the cube. Can you give me a coordinate? Within my experience, there is no pop or falling issue with it.

@Namegoesnowhere: Congrats on your independent invention!

Leslie


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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:03 pm 
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(2,1) looks fragile to me, but it also looks like it could be stable. I'm not sure, just some of the wing pieces, especially (2,1) through (4,1) look unstable. Again, it may just be me, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:32 pm 
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NType3 wrote:
(2,1) looks fragile to me, but it also looks like it could be stable. I'm not sure, just some of the wing pieces, especially (2,1) through (4,1) look unstable. Again, it may just be me, though.


I'm not sure coz i've never treated it with extra force. Here's the 3D picture of it before sanding and polishing.
[img]
Attachment:
21.jpg
[/img]


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21.jpg [ 15.67 KiB | Viewed 3624 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Leisie Le's 12x12x12 mech!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Looks fine, I guess it was difficult to see from the images!

Sorry :oops:

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