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 Post subject: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
Does anyone know if Uwe Meffert actually created a working prototype of a pyraminx crystal? If not, has he come up with a design which seems to work on paper?

Does patent US patent #4600199 contain an actual design for that dodecahedral puzzle, or just describe the exterior motion? I'm not sure that puzzle would be much fun to play with, but it may be very hard and it's one of the few possible deep cut puzzles.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 2:32 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
The patent basically reads: "...and now that you've seen how to build a 5x5x5 you can imagine all of the arms being mutally perpendicular and produce a dodecahedral puzzle..."

It seems like cheating to me, but that's the way the patent game is played - claim as much as possible and then you've got leverage unless the infringing party is willing to let the court decide.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:02 am 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
This one too:

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi?str=puzzle.cgi?pid=399

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:49 am 
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The "mutually perpendicular" bit is a brain failure on my part. The patent actually says:

"... in which the puzzle has been divided in such a way that none of the axes or rotation are perpendicular to each other."

Obviously, 3-space can't contain more then 3 mutually perpendicular axes. (I'm still guessing you could construct a puzzle equivalent in moves & states to a 2x2x2x2 cube, though!)


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:02 am 
Here is a 2x2x2x2 cube.

Anyone have any idea how to make a puzzle that works like this? Its not hard to write down the permutations relating to each "slice" turn, it might be much harder to get a 3d puzzle that has the same permutations!

Max


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:18 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Can anyone out there "imagine all of the arms being mutally perpendicular and produce a dodecahedral puzzle"?! I've looked through that patent before too, and I can't believe even the inventor had any idea how to make that puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:43 am 
More than 3 mutually perpendicular arms would require more than 3 dimensions!

I think the pyraminx crystal would be a whole lot easier to make than the one in the patent. My guess though is that the pictures of the crystal are of a cardboard mock-up that Uwe made and the actual puzzle was never built. I bet he has working designs for all those odities he thought up.

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi ... gi?pid=465

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi ... gi?pid=462

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi ... gi?pid=652

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi ... gi?pid=464

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/fs.cgi ... gi?pid=463


Max


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:23 am 
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There appear to be two different thoughts for how the Pyraminx Crystal might be sliced.

From Jaap's site: http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzle ... decrys.gif

From TwistyPuzzles.com - source is Meffert's catalog:
http://twistypuzzles.com/large/00652-01.jpg

And from the patent (sorry about the extra puzzle):
http://www.calormen.com/TwistyPuzzles/I ... 600199.gif

Note that Jaap's/Meffert's puzzles are NOT deep cut while the one in the patent IS deep cut - the cuts across each face are twisted 18 degrees!


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 1:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:36 am
Location: Washington D.C.
Joshua is correct. They are fundamentally different. The Pyraminx Crystal would consist of 12 shallow cuts. The puzzle in the patent has 15 deep cuts. By the way a Pentultimate would have 6 deep cuts. Ten regularly positioned deep cuts is also possible. Visualize an icosahedrons with deep cuts half way between every pair of opposite parallel sides.

Walt


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
"... in which the puzzle has been divided in such a way that none of the axes or rotation are perpendicular to each other."

Oh yeah, just move the arms a little bit, and it will magically work! Of course!

For those of you who haven't actually tried to design these things, I'd like to clarify that that was sarcasm. It's questionable whether an arms-based technique can work for that puzzle at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:51 am 
This one is easier to visualise.

Max


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 Post subject: Re: Possibly created puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:15 am 
This is why I said the crystal would be so much easier to make. I think it could be based on a megaminx.

The other one would be really hard to do, any mech that cuts a puzzle in half is tricky.

Max


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 Post subject: Easiest...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:51 am 
http://www.hadron.org/~hatch/MagicCube4dApplet/

Click on the background then hit the "minus" key to bring up the 2x2x2x2.


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