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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:54 pm 
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I keep telling myself that I'm going do log some solves on the applets. maybe tomorrow I'll take advantage of the holiday and do that :)

I scrolled through the list and counted 30 puzzles that I can do that I haven't solved on the applets yet, lol. so maybe tomorrow I can get up to #6 or #7 :twisted:

I finished my guide for 4x4 + order 4 helicopter cube hybrid (made a [long] parity fix) so hopefully that page can get up soon too.

edit: cleaned up 6 of the easy ones just now. megaminx, crystal, 1.2.1, 2x2, 3x3, skewb, dino. I got ~190 moves on megaminx :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:36 am 
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Added 10 more guides to my website!
Pyraminx orders 3-5
Edge turning tetrahedra orders 2-4 (2 is pretty trivial)
3x3x3 + 3.3.3 (probably the most difficult parity I've encountered yet)
Bevel+Skewb
and a few others.

Still haven't solved the MasterX yet :?

edit: spent most of the day on the MasterX. solved it pretty quickly but spent a long time trying to figure out a parity issue. Solved in 445 turns & 46 minutes. Wrote a guide, uploaded it, also updated the SuperX guide. It's Cube FA4VB2 under the hyrbid section (near the bottom) btw. gelatinbrain I think this puzzle would be a nice addition to your applet collection! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Since the other day when I did a tally, I finished 4 more and thought I was making good progress, but it seems that Campbell did 6 more!

Then again... AndrewG did 16 more to total 19 now.

I am 1 or 2 away from matching Michael now. But about 18 to catch up to Campbell. This is too addictive, and I'm too competitive.

Anyhow, it might be outdated by now, but the other day I complied a list:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem Puzzles (<3 people solved, not not all the 0):

2.1.1 (the first of the 20-sided, F-turning) === no solvers, it's a BEAST and I've been taking many cracks at it and will eventually get it
1.1.6 === only Noah
1.1.7b Super Pentultimate === only Teodovich
2.2.6 Icosa-Pentultimate === Noah and Doug, no reason for this!
2.2.8c Dogic(Custom 1) === Noah and Doug
2.2.8d Dogic(Custom 2) === Noah
2.2.9c (Custom 1) === Noah, but I haven't even done 2.2.9 or 2.2.9b yet
2.2.10 (10-color) === Noah and Michael
2.2.10c (Custom 1) === Noah
2.2.10d (Custom 2) === Noah
3.2.3 === only Campbell, more people should attempt this
3.2.4 Dino Cube === that list is too long, gelatinbrain should considered higher cutoff
3.2.5 === fusion, well that's one for him...
3.3.3 === fusion and AndrewG, I think I might have gotten this one before scoreboarding
3.3.7 Little Chop === fusion and AndrewG, HOW!???
3.4.1 2x2x2 + Skewb === Noah and Michael, I should try this soon
3.4.8 === fusion, and he owns another one
3.4.9 === no solvers, fusion should do it!
3.4.10 === Noah and Michael, that means I need to do it
3.7.3 Maze cube(4x4x4) === Doug, ya!
3.7.4 Maze cube(5x5x5) === no solvers, I'll get it
3.8.3 Arrow cube(5x5x5) === Campbell and Doug
4.1.5, 4.1.6, 4.1.7, 4.1.9 === Noah and Campbell, and soon me I think...
4.1.8 === Campbell, where's Noah on this?
4.1.10 === Campbell and Doug, score one for Doug! and I think Noah can get this
5.1.12, 5.1.13, 5.1.14, 5.1.15, 5.1.16, 5.1.17 === Noah and Campbell, this is where they rack up point we mere mortals can't
5.2.4, 5.2.6 === Noah and Campbell, Micheal can gain ground here since he did 5.2.7 and 5.2.8
5.2.5 === Campbell, Noah should do this
5.3.1 === Noah and Campbell, it's a small FE-turning and should be fun
6.1.1 (6-color), 6.1.3 (12-color) === Doug, these were hard
6.1.2 (8-color) === Noah and Doug, but I gave some hints to Noah
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully that will give you guys a clear idea of where to attack next to even out the scoreboard. Clearly, Noah has gained a lot of his ground from the Custom Dogics. That's enough commentary from me.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:04 pm 
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IDK if this has been dicussed before but i was wondering how you solve the helicopter cube.

Andrew :solved:

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Personal Bests -single(avg of 12)
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:21 pm 
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@Andrewgold (another AndrewG... hmm) I wrote a guide for the helicopter cube, it is here:
http://www.geocities.com/sxsk17/umcproject/CubeEA2.html
Or you can click on the link in my sig, and it's under Fundamental Hexahedra, edge cut, type A, order 2 :)

since people are actually keeping stats I solved 4 more. did the 1st solution for 3.3.5 (I had solved this one before in another program). also did Master Skewb and came in last by time and first by moves :D
I'm not close to passing up anyone right now, but hopefully I'll be chugging away at it the next few weeks. one thing that's keeping me down is I haven't spent any time working on icosahedra yet

@doug, you did do 3.3.3 before scores were kept. I quoted you around page 7 or 8 when I figured it out. also, I dunno how fusion figured out the little chop (maybe he's just brilliant with it like some people are naturally good at skewb or square-1), but I used 3.3.6 to develop the algorithms for it.
that said, if I had to guess, I'd predict that 3.3.6 may be the hardest CUBE currently listed, except possibly some of the hybrids.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:33 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
@doug, you did do 3.3.3 before scores were kept. I quoted you around page 7 or 8 when I figured it out. also, I dunno how fusion figured out the little chop (maybe he's just brilliant with it like some people are naturally good at skewb or square-1), but I used 3.3.6 to develop the algorithms for it.
that said, if I had to guess, I'd predict that 3.3.6 may be the hardest CUBE currently listed, except possibly some of the hybrids.

That's right there were A FEW of the 3.3.x series (but I'm certain not 3.3.6) that I had solved before scoreboarding. I even did 1.4.1. I think 2.1.1 will be the next big challenge. I mean what the heck are those little pieces??? they act as edges sometimes, and corners other times.

I have spent hours on Little Chop and could never figure it out, so I give up on it.

I'm lacking on tetra_e* stuff, custom dogics, and a couple of the categories in the 8-sided. There is a lot of room for me to rack up more points.

5.1.x contains 17 puzzles. And tonight I set some pretty impressive turn-counts I think... some of them WAY under what the other guys set. And a few good #1 times too. I have a lot of trouble with 5.1.3 Halpern-Meier Pyramid though. People got some sick turn-counts there, and I'm curious to know how. I did a really low turn-count 7x7 solve just now too. I used to suck at centers, but now I'm much better and it pays off.

I can finally say that I solved more pf these guys than Michael. But I have a long ways to go to catch up to Campbell and Noah.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:40 am 
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I have solved all of the tetrahedra puzzles!

I didn't want to attempt 5.3.2 because it only allows face turns instead of corner. But I managed to solve it with mostly edge turns. (Hey gelatinbrain, is it possible for you to allow direct corner turns on 5.3.1 and 5.3.2? :) )


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:52 am 
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Campbell wrote:
I have solved all of the tetrahedra puzzles!

I didn't want to attempt 5.3.2 because it only allows face turns instead of corner. But I managed to solve it with mostly edge turns. (Hey gelatinbrain, is it possible for you to allow direct corner turns on 5.3.1 and 5.3.2? :) )

Congratulations! That is 27 puzzles there (not counting the obsolete Pyraminx, tho I did count it in my full tallies cuz it's easier that way).

I was having similar issue with those not allowing direct corner turns. I did 5.3.1 and will do 5.3.2 soon. Right now I'm working on the vertex-turning octahedrons. (Is "octahedron" already plural? Cuz spell check doesn't like it otherwise.) Octa_v3 is giving me some trouble, all my solves on it take over 15 minutes and over 200 turns. I am trying for something a bit more respectable than last place on it.

BTW:
Noah has solved 25/27.
Michael has solved 14/27.
I have solved 19/27.
fusion has solved 11/27.
AndrewG has solved 7/27.
Devitt has solved 6/27.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:11 pm 
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I solved the dino cube. i used a lbl method.

Andrew :solved:

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Put this in your signature if you are the 8% who would be laughing.

Personal Bests -single(avg of 12)
3x3-22.21(27.09)
4x4-1:28.18(1:53.49)
5x5-3:23.99(3:55.61)


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:41 pm 
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The Dogic's aren't that hard, but yes, that is how I gained the lead.


I need to work on more puzzles. I haven't tried any for at least a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Just did the gigaminx in 677 moves. 2nd spot :) Michael's 592 would be very tough to beat.

Did one or two more easy ones too, got the 5x5x5 out of the way while it seemed "small" (ie, after doing the gigaminx) and got 3rd by moves in that with a 227 (no parity).

Also solved the first three of the halpern-meier series today so solution guides should be on the way soon :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:06 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
Just did the gigaminx in 677 moves. 2nd spot :) Michael's 592 would be very tough to beat.

Did one or two more easy ones too, got the 5x5x5 out of the way while it seemed "small" (ie, after doing the gigaminx) and got 3rd by moves in that with a 227 (no parity).

Also solved the first three of the halpern-meier series today so solution guides should be on the way soon :)

That beats my Gigaminx turn-count, taking me down to 4th. I will have to make another stab at it today. At least my 5x5 moves held up after all that.

I wonder what things Michael does to get such incredible turn-counts on things like Gigaminx, 5x5, 6x6...


Okay so I just noticed that Gelatinbrain posted on the bottom of the scoreboard (clipped):
========
General Statistics
1 Noah Hevey 104
2 Campbell 98
3 Doug Cube 80
4 Michael Gottlieb 77
5 fusion 48
6 Daniel Devitt 38
7 AndrewG 30
8 Percy 28
9 Joel Gouly 19
10 ryan 15
10 Lorgio Teodovich 15
10 Rae 15
========

Campbell only trails Noah by 6 now!!!

I have a few suggestions. The "obsolete Pyraminx" should not be included in these stats (since you can't get to it anymore I think). Perhaps even kill off that section and/or incorporated into the equivalent puzzle section with an '*'. Hem, I'd be losing a '1st in fewest moves' point... eh.

Secondly, I think this needs to be on the top of the page - or even have it in both places for convenience since it's so long. It would also be nice to have 'jump-links' to each category since the page is so terribly long. Perhaps have a navigation bar on top (using html frames perhaps).

Except the -1 for the obsolete thing, Gelatinbrain's tally is much, much more accurate and you should disregard mine. I made the mistake of double counting Campbell under 'Campbell2' (my grep command/script was not smart enough). I have just verified a few of the entries to be confident his tally works, and to find the error in mine due to seeing the discrepancies. I think it's entirely accurate.

What a miracle that I beat Noah and Campbell on '1st in fewest moves' despite the totals. And how while in 4th on totals Micheal leads tremendously both on '1st in time' and on '1st in fewest moves'.

Anyways, THANKS A BUNCH for this new automated tally system Gelatinbrain!


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:26 pm 
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It occurs to me... WHY doesn't Gelatinbrain himself appear for any of the puzzles. Surely as the creator of these things he can solve at ton of them! Well if not, then just the 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, Megaminx, and Pyraminx. :)

Maybe he's too busy maintaining all the stuff. Hey, there is a bug with the CTRL button. I first noticed it after I was more careful after someone (I forget, but fusion or AndrewG or Percy?) wrote here that they should have gotten an even turn-count but got an odd one for some strange reason on something.

The CTRL button held down, makes it so that the move gets executed (animated), counted, but then it blinks back to what it was like an instant undo. This tends to just add to the turn count for no good reason. BTW, NxN turn counts can be more robust... like LRL'R' should be 0 count but is instead 4. I understand from a coder's perspective how this would be VERY HARD to change to this in the general case.

Another suggestion. The headings which are
=solved puzzles 1st in "time" 1st in "fewest moves"=
I would like to be
=Puzzles Solved (out of XXXX) # 1st in Time # 1st in Fewest Moves=
where XXXX is the total number of puzzles available (which changes a lot since you keep adding stuff without calling me first, lol). Something like that, but "solved puzzles" sounds like bad English to me.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:21 pm 
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I have been solving the custom dogics and some other two-layered corner turning icosahedra (I think the plural of these shapes ends in an 'a', Doug) so I'm catching up to Noah. I also finally solved the 2x2x2 + Skewb. I'm struggling on the face turning dodecahedra that are deeper cut than the pyraminx crystal. I could do them but my algorithms are terrible. I could probably figure them out if I work at them a little bit more.

UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
I made the mistake of double counting Campbell under 'Campbell2'

Sorry about that. At the time, I assumed the scores didn't overwrite because when I first tried, the score didn't show up. This has happened to me a few times. I needed to solve the 6x6x6 two times before the score actually showed up. It wasn't just a delay because I waited a day or two.

I'd like to be able to shift-click on the corners of 3.4.3 because it's like the master skewb. This might be useful for 3.4.6 and 3.4.7 as well.
Also, is it possible to add a ctrl-click for 3.2.3 and 5.1.10 through 5.1.17 even though you can just shift-click on the opposite side? lol


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:27 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
Just did the gigaminx in 677 moves. 2nd spot :) Michael's 592 would be very tough to beat.

I did *one* attempt just now. It is no 592, but *616* beats your 677 and Noah's 695. I was converted at 448, so it was a 229 Megaminx solve - which is actually a bit better than my recorded PB on (1.1.1). Even though I was 24 turns from beating Michael's record, I don't think I can do it on the next... say 3 attempts, and I'm not going to try again anytime soon. Although with the Megaminx solves from AndrewG, Cohen, or obviously Michael, in place of mine, I'd have made up for the 24 turns on the end-phase and beaten it there.

The thing is, I was *extremely* careful on centers. And then used a very FMC-style edge pairing. I guess my Megaminx solves aren't up to par with the big dawgs... But I bet that even Michael would be happy with a 448 conversion, and given he's done a 145 Megaminx, he'd have beaten the 592 mark by *60* turns. Thus (unless 145 is way better than his norm), I don't think Michael ever converts in 448 turns.

EDIT: maybe I'm not so bad at Megaminx anymore - I just took a single attempt at 1.1.12 (Impossiball) which is the corners-only variation and got it in 42 turns beating Michael's 43 by 1. A list of 50 names and I top it in one try today! This takes away a point on the tally: M=42, D=26 --> M=41, D=27.

Campbell wrote:
I needed to solve the 6x6x6 two times before the score actually showed up. It wasn't just a delay because I waited a day or two.
Ya..., that happened to me too, I didn't just solve the Gigaminx for the first time last week - it was something that never got through the system. For me, the 4x4 was terribly cursed, because I can sear I solved it 5 times on 5 separate days or something without getting credited. :shock: Our best guess is that the internet connection on the client-side fails at lest momentarily to cause that. But this hasn't happened to me in a very long time, so I don't worry about it anymore. On my most important accomplishments I do copy&paste the certificate to a safe place. I must have a list of over 200 of them now.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:50 am 
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Well the added rankings are very nice! I'm very happy to see that I'm 6th although I still need another 11 puzzles to beat fusion... I only know how to solve a couple more of these guys so I'm really gonna have to work at this. Btw, my fewest moves ranking is wrong. I know that the difference between 1 and 2 hardly matters but I just thought I'd point it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:03 am 
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I am now the second person to solve 3.2.5

I solved the centers first, then corners. The corners were tricky.

The center pieces are just like a dino cube pieces, except they're a little weird. The outer pieces are connected, instead of the inner ones like the lattice cube (see pic).


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:07 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Well the added rankings are very nice! I'm very happy to see that I'm 6th although I still need another 11 puzzles to beat fusion... I only know how to solve a couple more of these guys so I'm really gonna have to work at this. Btw, my fewest moves ranking is wrong. I know that the difference between 1 and 2 hardly matters but I just thought I'd point it out.


Ethan has 2 fewest moves 1sts and it only lists him with one as well.

I'm happy to report that all my rankings were correct, however :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:57 am 
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Campbell wrote:
I am now the second person to solve 3.2.5

I solved the centers first, then corners. The corners were tricky.

The center pieces are just like a dino cube pieces, except they're a little weird. The outer pieces are connected, instead of the inner ones like the lattice cube (see pic).


I think you solved it the harder way first. I solve corners first so I don't have to worry about the centers and then centers from there is really easy. Though the way you did it most times will give you a low move count. I've got a lot of work to do to get some more puzzles solved.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:18 pm 
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hey, so how did ya'll do the 2x2x2+skewb?
I ended up doing it corners first and getting last by time AND by moves, but I was playing around with a reduction method for a while. Reducing the centers isn't too hard, but after reduction the corners are not nearly as "restricted" as they are on the skewb which would cause problems.

that said, I got 3 more points today.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:20 am 
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4.2.1 Trajber's Octahedron: I am 2nd in moves by 2 turns and am shooting for 1st. I really wish that it had shift-click to turn the inner slice...

Today, I will try to finish off the entire 4.2.x series and gain about 4-6 points that way.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:47 am 
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I am the second to solve 1.3.6. I will do it later to get a better time and move count. I need another to break 50. I'm going to go after the 2x2+Skewb.

EDIT: I solved the 2x2+Skewb. I think the way I do it is bad because I got over 1000 turns. I have the same question as AndrewG, what is your method?

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| avg of 12: 32.10
| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


Last edited by fusion on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Well I've been racking up points doing 4.2.x although I still have about 4 more to go (which I already know how to solve, I just need to actually do it). After I finish those I'll probably try to do some more of 5.1.x

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:03 pm 
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fusion wrote:
Campbell wrote:
I am now the second person to solve 3.2.5

I solved the centers first, then corners. The corners were tricky.

The center pieces are just like a dino cube pieces, except they're a little weird. The outer pieces are connected, instead of the inner ones like the lattice cube (see pic).


I think you solved it the harder way first. I solve corners first so I don't have to worry about the centers and then centers from there is really easy. Though the way you did it most times will give you a low move count. I've got a lot of work to do to get some more puzzles solved.

Hey 3.2.5/hexa_v4 , why must your tips not turn? It's like solving the centers on a 4x4 without allowing any outer-face turns! Two 3-cycles coupled together instead of a pure 3-cycle...

I'm still not sure what is more FMC: centers-first or corners-first. Once I figure out a way to do corners I might know... Hey, I did get to 80 turns with it being a 3-piece cycle off. Compared to Campbell's 139 and fusion's 288, I was hoping to smash those.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:25 pm 
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fusion wrote:
Campbell wrote:
I am now the second person to solve 3.2.5

I solved the centers first, then corners. The corners were tricky.

The center pieces are just like a dino cube pieces, except they're a little weird. The outer pieces are connected, instead of the inner ones like the lattice cube (see pic).

I think you solved it the harder way first. I solve corners first so I don't have to worry about the centers and then centers from there is really easy. Though the way you did it most times will give you a low move count. I've got a lot of work to do to get some more puzzles solved.

HA. GOT IT!

Before:
#1 Campbell 139 turns
#2 fusion 288 turns

Now:
#1 Doug Cube 57 turns
#2 Campbell 139 turns
#3 fusion 288 turns

You have both been severely bumped. I also did it in 10:28... which is a rare '1st in time' point for me.

Also I got the new 4.2.1 (Trajber's Octahedron) move record of 31(?) beating Michael's 38 even. (Previously, mine was #2 at 41 turns.)

What I did for 3.2.5 was to solve the center pieces first (induced Dino cube so takes as little as 4-5 turns). This clears everything up so that I see where all the "undoing setup moves" are so I don't forget and can go faster. Then I used the 4-turn "two 3-cycles coupled" alg for getting a ring around the a plane - visually like the placement of the 4 wings on (u) and 4 wings on (d) on a 4x4, of which I did opposites (so like the 2 on FL and the 2 on BR first, then the other 4 there). Next I started using single setup-turns as well as an 8 turn alg that does 2-2-swaps to finish it off. My solve was quite *clean* I think. I can now probably cut a minute or two off my time as well. I never needed more than 1 setup-move.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:25 pm 
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I just solved Little Chop in 48.59 using 248 turns. Ugggg... I would have been much better off witting a computer program to do this one. Roughly 6*10^18 positions I think (24!/2)/(6!*3*4!), and traversing in 6*5^(k-1) fashion shouldn't take up too much memory in a breadth-search search, or depth-first with careful bounding function. I suspect the optimal number of turns, k, would be around 26 to 30 turns typically, which would still make for a really large tree though. Pack each state into 3*24(=72) bits perhaps.

Erm... to lazy, I'd probably write a program that randomly clicks out turns indefinitely and let it run a while. How bad could 24 stickers over 6 colors be? It's got to be around the complexity of a 2x2 I'd wager. For both, each turn touches exactly half the pieces...

Perhaps multiple phases: The first phase to solve one face, any face, brute-force search. The second to solve as many as possible using 4 of the possible turn cuts within a certain small depth (say 2 or 3). And then pump out a series of lengthy 3-cycles to finish. Too bad I suck at programming though. I never did get my Pentultimate solver to do Super-Pentultimate.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Does anyone else get this?

http://phish.opendns.com/?url=users.sky ... Findex.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:46 pm 
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fusion wrote:
Congratulations on solving the Master Skewb! I have had trouble with the Master Skewb. I'll try to work on it more though, but I have other puzzles that need solving first. I think I have figured out a 3-cycle on the Half Chop-2x2 Hybrid though. So I am close to solving that. I'll try to solve some more new puzzles to put on your website. :) The Half Chop-2x2 Hybrid is hard to get a third side.

I just found an 80-turn alg for twisting a single 2x2 corner on it. Hexa_fe0 right?
EDIT: that is not enough, there are really 6[faces]*8[pieces] separate pieces, I thought there were 2[pieces]*12[edges]. Ops! I need a different 3-cycle.

I think it would take too long for me to solve.... erm, I might actually try it right now. I would be first - I think no one has solved it yet.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:08 pm 
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TODAY-

fusion, Percy, and Devitt were really productive on the puzzles today it looks like. You guys were racking it up. AndrewG did a couple too. Michael did the 3x3 arrow cube today. Noah did 5.2.5. Percy and Devitt each did a Pyraminx Crystal solve. Percy on Gigaminx, Impossiball, Master Icosahedron (2.2.14), 10-color Alexander Star, Helicopter Cube, 5.1.6, 5.2.3, and a new PB time on Pyraminx. fusion on 1.3.6 which was first solved by Michael yesterday. fusion tied me on 2x2 turn-count today. Percy did a 5x5. fusion did a 6x6 and 7x7 (both insanely fast). Both me and fusion did 3.2.5 today, he beats me by about 30s but obviously I went for turn-count...

fusion even busted out a 3.3.3! I did Half Chop (3.3.7). AndrewG and fusion did 3.4.1 (2x2+Skewb). AndrewG did 3.6.1. I crushed the Trajber's Octahedron in turn-count (*29 turns*). Devitt and AndrewG on 4.2.3. Devitt and me on 4.2.4 and 4.2.5, but Devitt goes on to do 4.2.6, 4.2.7, 4.2.8 (I'll catch up soon enough, no worries). This Rae fella did a few things today.

All together a sick day! Oh, and what do ya know - SOMEBODY... pulls off a 2x2+Half Chop: a first!


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Very nice summary of today's solves! And congrats on the 2x2 + half chop solve! I still can't do just the half chop (even using the guide provided by fusion... I usually fail at the second side). I know I can do at least another 8 or so of these that I haven't gotten around to yet.

Btw, the count for the total number of puzzles on the scoreboard says 187 although I count 179...

Noah- The page shows up fine for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Doug
I have done a lot more puzzles and gotten a few better times and solves in the past 5 or so hours. I am curious as to what your method is for the 2x2+Half Chop Hybrid. :wink: Now I have to solve it!

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Void Cube
| avg of 12: 32.10
| PB : 22.92 np PLL skip
| PB2 : 26.75 np no skips


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:18 am 
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Damn it, fusion! I'm trying to pass you but you're not making it easy!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:46 am 
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btw, I know campbell already requested it but I would really like to see ctrl-click ability on 5.1.10-5.1.17

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:50 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Btw, the count for the total number of puzzles on the scoreboard says 187 although I count 179...

I requested be added there, but ya I just quickly counted it, and got 179 plus/minus 1. The two guys, Noah and Campbell that are past 100 mark are insane!

I'm going to call 90, the halfway-value. So I need 6 more to be able to say "I've solved over half of them" (of course then GB will just add more new ones o_O).

From page 1:
UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/dodeca_e1.htm
SOLVED!
Took me 1796 turns.

That was 1.4.1 before scoreboarding. I just did it again at using 856 turns and about 1:49. I'm sure last time (i.e. last year) it was something like 5-6 hours instead.

This is the first in the edge-turning dodecahedra (1.4 class) to be solved. My method was to solve edges-first. I did that somewhat poorly, because I basically did a "layer" and then the opposite layer. I use various 4-turn intuitive sequences with increasingly greater setup moves for this step. I have a 28-turn alg to flip 2 edges (it starts with 12 turns that alone flip 4 edges). But to reduce moves I try to avoid placing and then flipping in pairs later. It also helped that I found a 20-turn alg that flips all of the 4 edges adjacent to one edge. This step is the hardest. It's critical that the first layer (if you chose to start with a layer) be correctly permuted relative to each other to force the rest of them in place. It can be deduced from the types of edges, what is possible (actually I think both the original scheme and it's mirror are possible).

So now is the easy part. I solve the centers using a simple 10-turn alg that cycles 3-centers located "in-line" around some face. I only had to use a single setup turn on the last 3 I think.

Then the triangular single-sticker pieces for the finish. There are 60 of them and I just chugged along, when I was curious to count things (to make sure I will be making positive progress instead of unknowingly doing something stupid), I noticed I only had 19 left, about a third. So this can be tedious and it can be fast, but a bit fun the way I did it. View it with center-pentagon pointing up, and do LRL'R'-U-RLR'L'-U' (I like using trivial primes in my notation...) to 3-cycle them without disturbing anything else. It's a nice length 10 alg that I probably didn't know about last time I solved it.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:07 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Damn it, fusion! I'm trying to pass you but you're not making it easy!

Imagine being in my position and trying to catch up to Campbell! He is at 103; Noah is at 104 now. I need 19 more (this difference has been growing despite my best efforts).

Danny Devitt wrote:
btw, I know campbell already requested it but I would really like to see ctrl-click ability on 5.1.10-5.1.17

Yes but then it'd be too easy for people to get low turn-counts :). I think Campbell was more concerned with the lack of direct vertex-turns on the 5.3.x (I e-mailed GB about it yesterday too). The Ctrl-button acts up on these applets, make sure you never hit that button during a solve, until those bugs have been addressed. I've had it do wacky things for me, like +1 to turn count while nothing changed. This was were me and other people get odd turn-counts on certain special puzzles that are scrambled with 500 turns (*even number*), yet all turns are under a certain parity restriction so that it should be mathematically impossible.

I am not at all fond with the 5.2 series of the "Pyracopters" (as Meesen calls them). But I have #2 completion under Campbell (who did all 27), and have little left to go. I think my efforts are best spent in the 8-sided collection. have no idea what I'm doing and only get those puzzles by luck or random clicking.

I have been spending a lot of time working out a solution for the first face-turning icosahedron that no one has yet solved...


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:10 am 
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Well even if I manage to surpass fusion somehow, the next step is over 30 more puzzles. You guys have a huge head start on me though. I've only even been able to solve a cube for like 6 1/2 months and I've been using this simulator on and off for about 3 1/2 months. Actually, just in the past 24 hours I've solved about 1/4 of my total puzzle count. But I guess this is supposed to be for the fun of puzzling and friendly competition so wtv :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:08 am 
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yesterday I didn't do any applets, but I wasn't completely idle. I did my first solve of the professor skewb on the Ultimate Magic Cube program (btw, doug, you talk to Meesen? is he on the forums?), and I finished some more guides for my website, but didn't upload due to a power outage (no internet).

I've been thinking about the halpern-meier sequence. Right now I list the sequence as:
order 3: 5.1.3
order 4: 5.1.8
order 5: 5.1.9

I changed it to start at 2nd order a few days ago (halpern meier = 2nd order), and now I'm thinking that the 5.1.9 is actually the 3rd order since 5.1.9 : master skewb :: 5.1.3 : skewb.

in that case 5.1.8 would be a pyraminx + halpern meier hyrbid, or Tetra VB3VC2 in my website's notation.

thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:44 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
(btw, doug, you talk to Meesen? is he on the forums?)

no, and I don't know
AndrewG wrote:
I changed it to start at 2nd order a few days ago (halpern meier = 2nd order), and now I'm thinking that the 5.1.9 is actually the 3rd order since 5.1.9 : master skewb :: 5.1.3 : skewb.
in that case 5.1.8 would be a pyraminx + halpern meier hyrbid, or Tetra VB3VC2 in my website's notation.
thoughts?

erm, I guess 5.1.8 can be called pyraminx+halpern meier, although I wouldn't. But I'd consider halpern-meier 3rd order, if you want to call a 3x3 3rd order. Pyraminx (without tips) is 2nd order. Something like that... Actually maybe it's best to class them by piece types:

The most important subtlety with classifying the tetra, is that Face-Turning == Vertex-Turning. I will take the perspective from Vertex-Turning.
5.1.1 has 1 type of fixed-center, 1 type of edges, 1 type of corners, and nothing else.
5.1.2 Pyraminx has no centers, 1 type of edges, 1 type of corner.
5.1.3 Halpern-Meier has floating-centers, 1 type of edges, and 1 type of corner

So the difference between these first 3 is only the type of center configuration. If I were to class these by Face-Turnings, then it's the same result of the centers being different.

So these somehow make up the fundamental types. If you define order the way I do, then 5.1.4 Master Pyraminx is order 5. "Order" is a very, very bad word!!! In the mathematical sense everything is order 2 here, technically. Perhaps "Size" or "Complexity" Or maybe a chart combining the two factors giving a good definition of each. What I always do first is figure out the odd/even-ness of its centers, which is weather or not it has central-centers. This is going to divide the 5.1 set almost in half nicely for categorization purposes too.

5.1.1 through 5.1.3 are Size 3 in this respect.
5.1.4 through 5.1.10 are Size 5.
5.1.11 through 5.1.17 are Size 7.

I choose to sort this way first because it dictates how I should/could solve edge groups for them. I wonder if you could actually have an even Edge Size.... wierd!
The next thing I look for is how many center pieces there are. This generally orders them in Complexity within each Size.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Image
THIS SUCKS! It doesn't think it's solved, there's probably something wrong with the code to detect the solve condition for this guy.
EDIT: forgot to say, this is Spherical_f7 also known as 6.2.2.

So the time is kinda long, but that's cuz I left it on overnight and this morning I was noticed it there and worked on it thinking I was just trying out stuff... but I GOT IT.

I deserve my point. One in each category :).

So the first step is to get it into the right shape (it's shape-changing a lot like the square-1). It's harder to get it into the right shape compared to the 6.1 series, but once it is there, the rest is really easy. Although there are some parity issues and piece trapping difficulties. Once in shape it induces the "Magic Octahedron (4.2.2)", i.e. 3x3 edge group with super-centers. Which is very easy to work with. Don't have to think much about setup moves.

So the hard part: getting the right shape. First notice that the "2-color central edges" and the "face corners" are different size but are on the same orbital in some sense, somehow. Except you certainly can't place a face-corner flipped - what happens is that it bypasses the 45 deg turn and the face only emits 90. Using this and knowing what conditions offer the 45 turnings, I went about "grouping the centers". Each time a face-corner goes in, an edge piece comes out. The last 2 or 3 are kinda awful but I found an alg of length [13,1]=28 that swaps 2 pairs of "wing semi-groups" (one phallic-wing and one little triangular-wing). With two opposite faces "unlocked" (having 45 deg turns available), the puzzle induces an 8-segment UFO. I just use 2-gen algs there commuted with setup turns.

Now that it's in the right shape AND each of the 6 centers have their face-corners attached, do not start solving central-edges blindly, or fixing center orientation. You don't even make the mistake I made of doing edge-paring. Instead notice that there are 8 sets of 3 "half-edges" (these not really pieces or groups, since I'm cutting down the middle of edges in this naming).

Solve these one color at a time. I tend to do all the bright fluffy colors first. To do so, note that the triangular-wings are in oblique/split orbitals. I think of them like 4x4 centers - worst case being checkerboard pattern which you need to know how to handle, so I asked myself how I would do it if it was 4x4. Pair them one way, and then the other, possibly with some 4x4/5x5 edge-pairing tricks we all should know.

With everything paired it's now *exactly* like solving the Magic Octahedron (4.2.2), which we all know and cherish, so just bust one out in 22 turns like Michael.

And there you have it, 1344 turns later. Done.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:59 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
THIS SUCKS! It doesn't think it's solved, there's probably something wrong with the code to detect the solve condition for this guy.

This must be a bug. I did register your record manually. I didn't expect anyone would ever solve this puzzle without computer aid. Congrats. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:27 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
THIS SUCKS! It doesn't think it's solved, there's probably something wrong with the code to detect the solve condition for this guy.

This must be a bug. I did register your record manually. I didn't expect anyone would ever solve this puzzle without computer aid. Congrats. 8-)

Well not quite, I did have to consult ACube on an alg to swap 2 corners on the induced "8-segment UFO with edges" The problem is preserving the segmented-edges, so like on a regular UFO it's easy. Although I did come up with the same thing while waiting for ACube to run:
R2 D' R2 D2 R2 D R2 D' R2 D2' R2 D R2 (careful with the ')

Even with both ACube and my intuition, I had to convince myself that this would work on the octagonal-prism. I can use it for doing 3-cycle and for doing 2-2-cycle of the "wing semi-pairs" (one long one small piece). I only needed it once though. It's only for fixing parity problems really.

I think I can get a much smaller turn count now. And the 6-color version (segments into 3x3 edges with regular centers), 12-color version (Ultimate-3x3, so super centers, no edge orientation, no corners), and Oblong (very weak variation) are just as easy and probably easier.

Gelatinbrain, if you keep doing puzzles like these, you should also include a "12-color [stickered] 3x3", it's called Ultimate-3x3. And then also the Oblong scheme too. It allows us to practice the endgame. It's like having a 4x4 and 5x5 on your page without having a 3x3... you know what I mean?

I think I can solve the Oblong extremely fast (relativity so), and could test out if that one is buggy as well...
If not, then I'll be doing 4.1.5-4.1.9 to catch up to Campbell.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:28 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
AndrewG wrote:
I changed it to start at 2nd order a few days ago (halpern meier = 2nd order), and now I'm thinking that the 5.1.9 is actually the 3rd order since 5.1.9 : master skewb :: 5.1.3 : skewb.
in that case 5.1.8 would be a pyraminx + halpern meier hyrbid, or Tetra VB3VC2 in my website's notation.
thoughts?

erm, I guess 5.1.8 can be called pyraminx+halpern meier, although I wouldn't. But I'd consider halpern-meier 3rd order, if you want to call a 3x3 3rd order. Pyraminx (without tips) is 2nd order. Something like that... Actually maybe it's best to class them by piece types:

The most important subtlety with classifying the tetra, is that Face-Turning == Vertex-Turning. I will take the perspective from Vertex-Turning.
5.1.1 has 1 type of fixed-center, 1 type of edges, 1 type of corners, and nothing else.
5.1.2 Pyraminx has no centers, 1 type of edges, 1 type of corner.
5.1.3 Halpern-Meier has floating-centers, 1 type of edges, and 1 type of corner
So the difference between these first 3 is only the type of center configuration. If I were to class these by Face-Turnings, then it's the same result of the centers being different.

So these somehow make up the fundamental types. If you define order the way I do, then 5.1.4 Master Pyraminx is order 5.

"Order" is a very, very bad word!!! In the mathematical sense everything is order 2 here, technically. Perhaps "Size" or "Complexity" Or maybe a chart combining the two factors giving a good definition of each. What I always do first is figure out the odd/even-ness of its centers, which is weather or not it has central-centers.

-Doug


I use the word "order" in the same way that "order" is used to describe matricies (ie, "dimensions of") or perhaps like the "order" of a polynomial (in a loose sense). What definition of "order" were you referring to? I'm not a huge fan of "order" either but I don't like "size", and "complexity" is a bit long. Maybe something like "level" or "term" (as in, term of a sequence)? "Level" doesn't sound very good either tho.

I put the Halpern-Meier as order 2 because it is basically a Skewb. A skewb is pretty obviously order 2 because it's cut in half.
I think the pyraminx is order 3 because with the tips it has three layers. The order 2 pyraminx is then trivial. I like adding the tips because then the pyraminx has all congruent stickers, which doesn't really mean anything but it's more "natural".

I came up with the three "fundamental types" in pretty much the same way you did.
Many of the puzzles on gelatinbrain's list I'm thinking aren't in the three fundamentals' "sequences". Many of them can be labelled as bandaged versions of higher order pyraminxes, just like the halpern-meier is a bandaged master pyraminx.

These "naturally bandaged" puzzles are less common among the cubes, which is where I came up with most of my terminology, so I'm not really sure what to do with them.

at first I was really surprised that you made the master pyraminx an order 5, but then I noticed that it's edges are 5x5-like (3 pieces per edge) and it has centers which suggest an odd order. then again, if the halpern-meier is 2nd order then this centers-odd relationship kinda goes away.

I think I will try to make a separate topic for this soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:28 pm 
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AndrewG wrote:
I use the word "order" in the same way that "order" is used to describe matricies (ie, "dimensions of") or perhaps like the "order" of a polynomial (in a loose sense). What definition of "order" were you referring to? I'm not a huge fan of "order" either but I don't like "size", and "complexity" is a bit long. Maybe something like "level" or "term" (as in, term of a sequence)? "Level" doesn't sound very good either tho.

Well a couple years of graduate coursework in math here, so I hope my opinion has merit. In linear algebra, the word 'order' just means size (I just checked Wikipedia on this too), and it's a not the usual meaning of the word in the math, only in that specialized branch. In every thing else order has to do with "the number of times you compose something to get to identity" (either getting back to start, or to null group action). As for polynomials, it still means the same thing as in abstract algebra, it's just that a lot of people confuse it with the word "degree" for some reason.

AndrewG wrote:
I put the Halpern-Meier as order 2 because it is basically a Skewb. A skewb is pretty obviously order 2 because it's cut in half.
I think the pyraminx is order 3 because with the tips it has three layers. The order 2 pyraminx is then trivial. I like adding the tips because then the pyraminx has all congruent stickers, which doesn't really mean anything but it's more "natural".

That's very odd that you would categorize it parallel to the vertex-cut hexahedra. Of the 5 platonic solids, the tetrahedron is special because it has the self-dual property. Consequently, Vertex-Turning is the same as Face-Turning for these guys. So you can approach it form two different directions. Personally, I can't stand the Skewb because of the way it turns... of course this is coming from the guy that was first to solve the Pentultimate and then write a working solver program for it.

AndrewG wrote:
at first I was really surprised that you made the master pyraminx an order 5, but then I noticed that it's edges are 5x5-like (3 pieces per edge) and it has centers which suggest an odd order. then again, if the halpern-meier is 2nd order then this centers-odd relationship kinda goes away.

I later realized that a lot of the Octahedra have even Edge-Size. Actually I love the word "Edge-Size" it makes perfect sense to have this as another parameter in your classification system. For me it's the most important, because I always start with tearing up the edge pairings. This is more time consuming but leads to better turn-counts typically.

AndrewG wrote:
I think I will try to make a separate topic for this soon.

Oh, don't do that... :0, this is pretty much the only thread I read here.


In other news... I just solved octa_f5 for the first time, and started on octa_f6 but it's driving me crazy! I did so well on all its little siblings, WHY! stupid floating centers....


-Doug

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single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:54 am 
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Well I didn't have much time today to do solving because it was my sister's birthday although I did manage to finish off the 4.2.x series. Unfortunately for me, fusion managed to solve about 7 or so compared to my 1. However, I still have around 12 more I can solve :)

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Last edited by Danny Devitt on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:02 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Well I didn't have much time today to do solving because it was my sister's birthday although I did manage to finish of the 4.2.x series. Unfortunately for me, fusion managed to solve about 7 or so compared to my 1. However, I still have around 12 more I can solve :)

Ah yes the 4.2.x series... this is a place I can rack up lots and lots of points. I still have to finish off the 4.1.x stuff though. I have 3 left, but I've been stuck on 4.1.7 for a while now. And then there's lots of custom Dogics and 3 more sphere puzzles for me. This will take me on par with Campbell and Noah I think.

I WANT 90 deg LOCKING with SHIFT-CLICK on 6.x.x series!


-Doug

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averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:16 am 
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4.1.7/octa_f6 solved! I got 32.15 using 288 turns. This took me about 6hrs to experiment before perfecting my method. Compare 288 to Noah's 433 and Campbell's 657, the only other two who have solved it. It looks like I earned 1 point in two columns :).

I start by solving centers like on a 4x4, and using 4x4 center-grouping algs essentially - uh, the location matters (I had to start over the attempt prior). Next there are 12 edges groups, each consisting of 4 pieces that I solve 1 at a time to not have to worry too much about the split-orbital restrictions as much. Basically this can be done by creating 2 blocks of 2 and then paring that together. The idea is similar to 4x4 edge pairing, but it's more like insane-double-pairing-with-hard-to-recognize-restrictions. For the last 2 or 3 edge groups I just pair the outside pieces together (the 2-sticker variety). Next, I have an alg that 3-cycles the inner-edge pieces which I always use for "fake-2-cycle" - by using in conjunction with pulling in a 3rd piece of one of the colors as part of the cycle (this alg I will keep secret for now, since knowing it gives away the entire puzzle).

First of all do check center placements before starting edge grouping phase. After this is done you have reduced it to a Dino Octa (4.1.3), which is like 160 turns from solved. This totally felt like it should be called "Master Dino Octa".

Gosh, I noticed only 4 people have solved Dino Octa! You better work out a solution for that first before even trying this guy.

So onward and upward to 4.1.8...


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:04 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
THIS SUCKS! It doesn't think it's solved, there's probably something wrong with the code to detect the solve condition for this guy.

This must be a bug. I did register your record manually. I didn't expect anyone would ever solve this puzzle without computer aid. Congrats. 8-)

That was wrong. You put it under 12-color version, I did the 8-color (f7 version). Do you think it's safe for me to do the other 6.2.x now? Like did you check the correctness of your code and fix that bug? Or can you tell if it's a bug that is only on the 8-color and not the other ones?

Anyhow, I just finished octa_f7. It has 7 pieces on it's edges, but the way they are, makes it so that no parity occurs when doing edge pairing I suspect.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:53 pm 
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UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
That was wrong. You put it under 12-color version, I did the 8-color (f7 version). Do you think it's safe for me to do the other 6.2.x now? Like did you check the correctness of your code and fix that bug? Or can you tell if it's a bug that is only on the 8-color and not the other ones?

I think this is a bug for the entire 6.2 family. Unfortunately I have for a while no time to check my codes.
I will announce here when I fixed it. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:30 pm 
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I just passed Noah with 105 solves, after solving the pentultimate. I plan on doing a few more dodecahedra soon, like 1.1.4, 1.1.5, 1.1.6 and 1.1.7b.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:49 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
UMichSpeedCubist wrote:
That was wrong. You put it under 12-color version, I did the 8-color (f7 version). Do you think it's safe for me to do the other 6.2.x now? Like did you check the correctness of your code and fix that bug? Or can you tell if it's a bug that is only on the 8-color and not the other ones?

I think this is a bug for the entire 6.2 family. Unfortunately I have for a while no time to check my codes.
I will announce here when I fixed it. 8-)

Thanks.
While solving octa_v6, I think that being able to do middle slice turns would be very useful here. Perhaps add it as Ctrl-click? You know... I am a programmer too, if you want help on this, I would be interested in working on the code.


Campbell wrote:
I just passed Noah with 105 solves, after solving the pentultimate. I plan on doing a few more dodecahedra soon, like 1.1.4, 1.1.5, 1.1.6 and 1.1.7b.

Congratulations, but I have 91 and not far to go. Noah and Campbell have a lot of the Custom Dogics and that area, which I have yet to spend serious time on. Perntultimate is a beast, the only thing harder in that family of puzzles is 1.1.6 and obviously the Super-Pentultimate, each having only one solver so far (none being me..).

For Octa_v6, I'm thinking I should solve middle-edges first. Or perhaps corner-orientations first if I want to have good reference points, which would lower time but increase turn-count. It's basically got 5x5 super-centers going on. So then I would attach the equivalent of "5x5 +centers" to their "5x5 center"/corner/tip. But I would be careful to get as many "5x5 x-centers" as possible and I would do all that while preserving middle-edges. I am no longer sure if that is worth the effort... sequences that preserve middle-edges might increase turn-count significantly.

Oh ya, and obviously centers last, because there is a simple 8-turn alg to pure 3-cycle, and they don't have orientation.

Solving the last "5x5-centers" without Ctrl-click is kinda awful I think, but I'll do my best.

Maybe doing middle-edges later instead. I don't know. What do you think? I can't find an alg to cycle the tiny triangular "x-centers".


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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