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 Post subject: F2L Help..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:50 pm 
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I searched and found a ton of unrelated topics so I decided to post my question...

I realized a while back that my F2L is really slowing me down. On average it takes me about 20 seconds, but can be as low as 15 and as high as around 23.

When I do well on my F2L, I get sub 30 everytime. I'd really like to improve on this a lot because I have a feeling this will be the hardest part about shaving my times down.

I have read a few things that give you tips, but are there any specific things that any of you have done that helped a lot?

P.s. I use intuitive c/e pairing.

Thanks.

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PLL 15/21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-Drdc8HMg
OLD NAME : Kid_with_teh_mohawk
pb 22.19
pb avg
27.61 = 26.74, 26.69, 26.98, 23.16, 26.14, 24.63, 23.71, (22.19), 30.41, (35.42), 34.97, 32.69


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:59 pm 
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I'm pretty slow at the F2L too. I average about 33 sec for it (yeah I really have to work
on my F2L) :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:12 pm 
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http://www2.u-netsurf.ne.jp/~katsu-k/cu ... p_stop.asf

Katsu is the bomb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:37 pm 
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I am also getting frustrated with how slow my F2L solve times are.

I first learned how to solve the cube (LBL beginner's) early December 2006, and since then I have learned F2L and a 3-look LL. However, my best average is still 48 seconds, with a fastest single solve of 37 seconds. My F2L takes 35 seconds on average. I too could use some help with how to speed up this process (other than simply practice, practice, practice)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:42 pm 
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Its all about looking ahead.

Someone once suggested to me to use a metronome while doing F2L.
For every beat, you must do EXACTLY one move. So get used to seeing where everything else is while you're slowly doing your CE pairs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:20 pm 
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When you say "for every beat you must do one move", are you saying to make one move per second (err, per beat...same thing)?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:42 pm 
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It would be one move per second if it were one beat per second.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:28 am 
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I'm about where you are right now Clayne, my F2L is around 20 seconds, sometimes a bit faster (often a bit slower too). I think the main thing you can do is practice slow-solving. I like to warm-up with some slow-solves, where I carefully analyze my moves and try to look ahead, and then do my speed solves. You said you do intuitve f2l which is good. But I also recommend looking up the algorithms for any cases you aren't good at, and figuring out how the algorithm works. The way I do remember the harder cases is just by the first 2 or 3 twists, and then I can remember where the pieces need to go.

I need to work on F2L alot too, especially at looking ahead. I'm terrible at that. I think that is one of the major keys, because in reality it is all the delays and thinking time that slows people down. :D

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3x3 PB : 20.75
PB Avg: 27.56

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:07 am 
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A metronome is a musical tool that accurately tells tempo. Tempo is measured in bpm (beats per minute).
Therefore, 60 bpm is 1 beat per second. 120 is 2 beats per second (the tempo of about every march out there) ... etc etc

The sub20 guys can get up to between 150 and 180 bpm on their f2l.

http://www.metronomeonline.com/
Try it out

TBTTyler Fox


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:55 am 
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Tempo vid of katsu

http://www2.u-netsurf.ne.jp/%7Ekatsu-k/ ... empo60.asf

http://www.planet-puzzle.com/

Katsu's site is madness, fridrich users should browse all 3x3x3 pages.PLL especially.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:24 am 
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Too bad I can't read the site :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:26 am 
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Yeah, I've seen those videos. It always seems like I do better after watching him solve...either that or I screw up even more because I try to mimick him.

I've heard the metronome thing and have put it off and forgot about it. I think I'll try that!! (but school and work wont let me until friday..eh).

I agree on learning those strange F2L algs. I'll find some good ones on that. Hopefully this will help me.

I'm also in the process of doing the cross more efficiently (7 moves or less). It's a pain, and I think it's slowing me down in the meantime. Hopefully, though, it'll pay off.

_________________
PLL 15/21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-Drdc8HMg
OLD NAME : Kid_with_teh_mohawk
pb 22.19
pb avg
27.61 = 26.74, 26.69, 26.98, 23.16, 26.14, 24.63, 23.71, (22.19), 30.41, (35.42), 34.97, 32.69


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:47 am 
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Can anyone recommend any good sites to learn the Cross efficiently? Currently it takes me around 10 seconds, and I would like to get that down to consistently under 5 seconds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:56 am 
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andyaycw wrote:
Can anyone recommend any good sites to learn the Cross efficiently? Currently it takes me around 10 seconds, and I would like to get that down to consistently under 5 seconds.

The cross is all practice, take timew looking for the best solutions. I havn't seen any sites talk extensively about the cross, its all about intuition.

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http://www.xanga.com/j_ey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:05 am 
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Dan (I forgot his whole name and webpage name)'s site has some good tips.

I would suggest getting out of the habit (if you have it) of positioning the pieces on the top layer then bringing them down. Try bringing one piece down and your doing another. Also try using the bottom (cross) layer primarily instead. Put them in the right order (by memorizing color scheme) so that when they are all on the bottom you either have to do D, D', or D2 to finish it.

_________________
PLL 15/21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-Drdc8HMg
OLD NAME : Kid_with_teh_mohawk
pb 22.19
pb avg
27.61 = 26.74, 26.69, 26.98, 23.16, 26.14, 24.63, 23.71, (22.19), 30.41, (35.42), 34.97, 32.69


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:12 am 
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Clayne H. wrote:
Dan (I forgot his whole name and webpage name)'s site has some good tips.


Dan harris: http://www.cubestation.co.uk

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3x3: PB 9.64
http://www.xanga.com/j_ey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:16 am 
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Thanks. I feel a bit silly for asking about the Cross - I feel as if I learned it "incorrectly" the first time around. What I have always done is to first put all 4 White Edges (White being the top face) in place, then "fix" the rest. I don't know if this is even presented as a method for how to do the Cross anymore, but it is quite inefficient, so I doubt anyone talks about it...?

Does anyone know what I mean?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:20 am 
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Yeah I know what you mean. I used to do it that way and the same with the
first layer corners. I figured it was too inefficient so I placed them in the
correct place first.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:53 pm 
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My F2L is around 13 seconds now, all because of thorough practise.
Try to work out your own F2L algorithms, but try to commit them to memory eventually, this will help with looking ahead.
Learn to do the algorithm without thinking and constantly look ahead.
Not much more to it then practise slowly and work up speed after a while.

_________________
List of Speedcubing methods
Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm 
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is there a metronome on the internet that anyone knows of, like one that beeps every second?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:35 pm 
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ooh, nvm, i feel stupid, i just saw the link for it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:47 pm 
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I've tried solving to my metronome I have on my desk, I can't keep in time, I like to speed up mid alg (I can still keep track of pieces) and so don't think it helps me. It's also not useful for PLL when you get to speeds of 7 Tps.

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Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:48 pm 
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the metronome teaches you pace.for example you should do F2L the same speed as pll. if your f2l seems slower then pll then you definately need f2l practice :/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Well when I do OLL/PLL, I need not look ahead that much (not at all with PLL) so I just blitz through the alg getting it done as quickly as possible.

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@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:06 am 
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Pembo wrote:
Well when I do OLL/PLL, I need not look ahead that much (not at all with PLL) so I just blitz through the alg getting it done as quickly as possible.


I would do that as well, but my cube locks up whenever I get in the "zone" and start moving crazy fast.

I'm going and going and then *click*...all movement stops. I move the layers a short distance back and forth only to get to same response.

I give up on life.


Stuff like that.

_________________
PLL 15/21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-Drdc8HMg
OLD NAME : Kid_with_teh_mohawk
pb 22.19
pb avg
27.61 = 26.74, 26.69, 26.98, 23.16, 26.14, 24.63, 23.71, (22.19), 30.41, (35.42), 34.97, 32.69


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:13 am 
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it's because you aren't used to that pace. make yourself used to an extreme pace and you won't lock up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Kyle is right.
there is no point in trying to turning really fast if you can't control it, make sure you align each face instead of just quickly turning.

If you need to practise, just keep repeating the same PLL case over and over and over again.

_________________
List of Speedcubing methods
Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Clayne,

It's good to do the F2L intuitively to see what's going on, but after a certain point, you should look at the algs (or work on your own). You need to get to the point that you can pair and place CE pairs without watching what you're doing. Also do the F2L slow enough that you can find the next CE pair to work on.

It's pretty hard for me to do this. I have to remind myself to actively look for the pieces I'll need instead of watching myself pair and place the CE pairs.

Also, try to keep cube whole rotations to a minimum, and try pairing and placing the CE pairs that belong in the Back slots without rotating the slot to the front.


Good luck -mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Up until this point, I have been doing the F2L completely intuitively. However, I notice that there are many cases where I have to do several moves in order to get it to a case I know I can do. Perhaps this is where the algorithms will come in handy...?

Thanks for the excellent advice. I think I'll follow through on it! : )

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Cubing since December 2006
3x3x3 Best Average : 38.84 seconds
3x3x3 Fastest Single Solve : 26.80 seconds


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Yer, that is a good time to learn the more optimised algorithm, if it is taking you a few extra moves to do now, it's not going to hurt learning a shorter one really.

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@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Christian wrote:
is there a metronome on the internet that anyone knows of, like one that beeps every second?


Have you tried a google search?

You can probably find adjustable ones. Start slow, missing nothing, and gradually speed up.

Cheers,

David J

*


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:59 pm 
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What should the ratio between each step be? MY f2l takes around the same time as all my other steps.
F2l= cross+OLL+PLL

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3x3x3: 18.32 secs
3x3x3 OH: 1min 4.63 secs
4x4x4: 2 mins 7.26 secs
5x5x5: 4 min 56.65 secs eastsheen!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:22 am 
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Once you've learned all the PLL and OLL algs, the F2L should take up the bulk of your time. So I'd say from F2L to LL it'd be like a 2:1 ratio. But I'd have to think about it more.

_________________
PLL 15/21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve-Drdc8HMg
OLD NAME : Kid_with_teh_mohawk
pb 22.19
pb avg
27.61 = 26.74, 26.69, 26.98, 23.16, 26.14, 24.63, 23.71, (22.19), 30.41, (35.42), 34.97, 32.69


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:26 am 
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2:1 seems decent.

Think about the current world record average, 11.76.
That is *roughly* 8 seconds F2L, 4 seconds LL.

_________________
List of Speedcubing methods
Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Mine is close to a 2:1, but my last layer is a bit too slow. I do the F2L in roughly 16-20 seconds, and then 8-12 seconds for Last Layer.

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Started Speedcubing September 2006
3x3 PB (lucky): 17.34
3x3 PB : 20.75
PB Avg: 27.56

Virtual Cubing Awesomeness


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